Giving youths a chance - a closer look at our managers

MacBear

MacBear

Well-Known Member
A comment in an earlier post arguing that Pedro gave more debuts to youths than Warburton and Murty (this is true) has compelled me to take a closer look at the four recent managers of the club to put youth debuts into perspective. I'm sticking with players under 20, or on the cusp, for this analysis.

Ally McCoist

We all agree that when we went down the divisions was the perfect opportunity to bed in youth players instead of giving "jobs to the boys" and bringing in many of the older players we did. But for all the stick McCoist gets, he gave Barrie McKay his first opportunity (albeit he was very young and raw back then and faded out of the picture after this) and both Fraser Aird and Lewis MacLeod became a mainstay of the midfield under Ally until injury forced MacLeod out and then we sold him, which still really grinds my gears. Murdoch got a chance, played well but then vanished for some reason.

The problem fans have with McCoist though is definitely that he failed to give more youths a chance during the early days of our journey back through the leagues, however, if he had done so and our young, inexperienced players had been booted about and we lost games and never won the lower league titles when he was manager we'd all be saying the opposite, why didn't he play experienced players?!

The correct answer was that he should have found a better balance, he tried and did this to a degree, but what you also have to factor in is the climate he was working under, little cash to play with, Ibrox being left to ruin and scumbags without the interests of the club in charge at the top bleeding us dry. For all the moaning, he at least got us back up through the divisions quickly which we needed, but an opportunity was missed to bed in more youths.

One thing often not considered is "were our youths any good back then?". Some like MacLeod definitely were but due to the situation at the time, the scouting network was a mess or non-existent. I feel that McCoist gets more stick than he deserves for the very tough task he had as our manager at that time. More perspective... he wasn't ready to be a manager back then, he was Walter's assistant and when we dropped down the divisions we should have brought in someone more experienced to manage the club.

Notable youth debuts:

Lewis MacLeod
Fraser Aird
Barrie McKay
Ryan Hardie
Andy Murdoch
Robbie Crawford
Callum Gallagher
Tom Walsh
Rhys McCabe
Danny Stoney
Luca Gasparotto
Alan Smith
Charlie Telfer

Youths playing regularly for the first team

Lewis MacLeod
Fraser Aird
Andy Murdoch
Robbie Crawford

>>>

Mark Warburton

Warburton was next in and he talked up the pathway to the first team, rightly so, it helped us warm to him instantly and seeing the rise of Barrie McKay for example was great, fans love nothing better than one of our own staking a claim to play for the famous. What hampered Warburton though, was his insistence on buying or loaning youths from England, essentially taking away a chance for our own youths to progress at the expense of a temporary player who'd be gone at the end of the season.

We got some fantastic results and romped the Championship with Warburton in charge which was great, then the wheels started falling off...

Warburton's insistance on his system and Plan A also didn't help our youths as it was too rigid and if we had a promising youth who was a central midfielder for example, would he even get a look in? Warburton's three in midfield system cried out for a solid DMF (which we never had), leaving two wide or central midfielders with a lot of responsibility and ground to cover in the middle of the park especially if the wingers were not working back defensively.

Despite all his chat about the pathway to the first team, it didn't really happen for our youth players, just the odd debut here and there.

Notable youth debuts:

Liam Burt
Jordan Thompson
Jordan Rossiter

Loan youths

Gedion Zelalem
Nathan Oduwa
Dominic Ball
Emerson Hyndman

Jon Toral
(bought but inexperienced)
Josh Windass
Matt Crooks

Youths playing regularly for the first team

Barrie McKay
(loanees)
Gedion Zelalem
Nathan Oduwa
(slightly older)
Dominic Ball
Emerson Hyndman
Jon Toral

>>>
 
Pedro Caixinha

So I admit I was perhaps a little harsh on Pedro about bringing through youth players but aside from this almost all of his other decisions were questionable and resulted in a bad atmosphere at the club with experienced pros being sent to the youths to train or sent away on loan.

Perhaps Pedro only gave these youth players debuts because of this and as a result of his own bad man management. I don't think anyone can argue that Dorrans, Jack, Candeias, Morelos (and I would include Alves and Cardoso to a degree) were excellent signings, the others not so much. Look at some of the individual errors made by Beerman, McCrorie, Bates and Barjonas that cost us points, giving youths a debut can seem like a great thing but having too much inexperience on the park can hinder the team and lead to bad results.

We cannot deny that some of the worst results in our history came under Pedro, out of Europe at the first hurdle because he bought expensive players who were not quite ready to play for various reasons, playing inexperienced youths who cost us games and generally being a bit mental when it came to his formation and system, then splitting the dressing room.

After our first result I was all for Pedro's appointment, we played fast and direct, then this vanished and was never seen again. The old firm and Aberdeen results along with some others (Progres) still hurt a lot. Yes the board did %^*& up with his appointment but at least they have taken steps to fix their mistake and they cannot be blamed for McInnes crapping his pants and changing his mind at the last minute which resulted in the situation we are in now.

Notable youth debuts:

Ross McCrorie
David Bates
Jamie Barjonas
Myles Beerman
Aidan Wilson
Kyle Bradley

Loans

Aaron Nemane

>>>

Graeme Murty

Murty has inherited a mix of the previous two managers teams which can never be easy to sort out but I think he's doing a good job so far in difficult circumstances and at least he has more stability above him with a board that cares about the club first and foremost and wants us to return to winning days, one that is fixing up Ibrox, has reinstated our youth scouting and played a blinder bringing in Mark Allen to work with the manager to identify players that know what it means and can handle playing for us. The board got the Caixinha very wrong, McInnes as manager went tits up which was not their decision, only Derek can answer why he bottled out of the opportunity of a lifetime managing us.

Murty has the team enjoying their football again and the atmosphere in training and around the club now is a marked improvement on previous managers. He's also got a much stronger team out there, a mix of the best Warburton and Caixinha buys, with his own that have been very impressive so far. Youths are getting a chance if they can handle it, Bates may be raw but he's taking his chance and doing well. McCrorie, depending on the system we play, should still find a way into the team when available, hopefully at DMF where I think he is most effective for us but he can also play in central defense and at right back.

Notable youth debuts

None of note, what Murty has done is see that some of our youths were not ready to step up or were not good enough, so they have been sent out on loan to gain valuable experience (Hardie, Wilson, McCrorie, Beerman). Others are being settled in gradually and not thrown into the limelight and pressure too soon. What Murty has done is the masterstroke (or copying of Scott Gemmil doing this for the Scotland team, you decide) of moving McCrorie into defensive midfield, while giving Bates a regular run in the team.

Youths playing regularly for the first team

David Bates
Ross McCrorie

Edge cases

Alfredo Morelos
Greg Docherty

Now we are back in the Premiership Murty has done the sensible thing and has brought in experienced pro's who are either fans or are good enough to play for Rangers. He's had to work with a mix of Pedro's and Warburton's signings, getting shot of ones that were clearly not working where possible, undoing some of the madness of Pedro such as alienating our captain Wallace, Kenny Miller and playing Dorrans in the wrong position for example.

Murty has managed to take a bit of a cluster %^*& and do his best to sort out the mess in a short time and although results still aren't quite what we are looking for (we still expect to win every single game regardless of circumstance, it's what we are used to and it's the high standards we have set at the club as fans) but this puts pressure on young players and only a few can handle it, Bates and McCrorie being the obvious ones.

Murty's signings so far have been just what we needed and we can't forget that we are missing almost an entire first team of experienced players through injury at present, luckily some are on the verge of coming back.

So while it is correct that Murty hasn't been giving youth a chance as much as the previous managers, we're at that point where only the best can make it through and it's how it should be. Youths with potential are being loaned out to see if they can cut it and if they do brilliantly, they will get another chance or two if and when they return to us. By then they will hopefully have improved leaps and bounds and will be ready for the pressure of playing for us.

>>>

One thing for sure is that all 4 of these managers have had to deal with bad refereeing decisions, injuries to key players and youths, a poisoned press out to slate them and the club at every opportuntity and except for the last two, a board that was slowly destroying the club from the inside, or at least trying to until King and co. took back control.

It's interesting to see the above all put together, especially when you see that McCoist actually gave more debuts to our home grown youth team players than any other manager, Caixinha next, then Warburton then Murty. Murty talks of the pathway but is being sensible about it as stated above, we need a strong core of experienced players with youths able to step up when required and hold a position in the team if need be and in the event of injury. This is happening and the purchasing of Greg Docherty (less a youth, more a young experienced player) is very encouraging, even more so the recent signing of Glenn Middleton, is a superb piece of recent business by Murty. Both will get their chance soon enough and I see more of a pathway under Murty than Warburton promised. Pedro's multiple debuts often cost us points.

One thing is for sure, we are in a much better place than we have been previously, we just need to continue improving on and off the park and we'll get back to the top of the tree where we belong. I have confidence that the board, despite their errors, are making all the right moves.

Murty still has a lot to learn, as do some of the players, but we're getting there step by step and with the current youth team set up giving experience to the younger guys against the best Europe has to offer, with some eye opening recent results, it's looking good for the future of our club and the entire youth department. I fully expect more of our own to make the team over the next few years and become mainstays like Barry Ferguson did.

The future's bright...

Sources:
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ally-mccoist/debuetanten/trainer/4164/plus/0?wettbewerb_id=SC2

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/mark-warburton/debuetanten/trainer/20869/plus/0?wettbewerb_id=SC2

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/pedro-caixinha/debuetanten/trainer/6175/plus/0?wettbewerb_id=SC1

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/graeme-murty/debuetanten/trainer/45667
 
Murtys only been in the job 5mins mate. He hasn’t ever had a pre-season to prepare so you can’t really compare him to the others. Maybe in the fullness of time he’ll prove to give youth more of a chance once things settle down.
 
Looking at Ally's list, thing that stands out is the number of players there was genuine hope and enthusiasm for, the ones highlighted below in particular, but none of whom have really cracked on to play at a high level, for one reason or another. Even Barrie McKay seems to have fallen out of favour at Forest and it's difficult to imagine his next move will be up the way.

Lewis MacLeod
Fraser Aird
Barrie McKay
Ryan Hardie
Andy Murdoch
Robbie Crawford
Callum Gallagher
Tom Walsh
Rhys McCabe
Danny Stoney
Luca Gasparotto
Alan Smith
Charlie Telfer
 
Quite depressing how much false hope there was amongst those,shame for those lads as well.

McCrorie and Bates have been superb this season thus far though,and the younger players do seem to be responding well to Murty in general.
 
Genuinely good read and well thought out article - thank you McBear. I am one of those who love seeing our young players breaking through and becoming heros!
 
George Goudie said:
Excellent post mate.

Really thought provoking.

Interesting to also note that Rangers youths will make up 30% of the next Scotland under 19 teams games.


#RangersFC will provide more than a third of the Scotland under-19 squad for two forthcoming friendlies.

➡️ Read more: https://t.co/Nx84sTugIo https://t.co/GS6lmuxCIM
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14jb5w1.jpg[IMG]
 
Big D said:
Looking at Ally's list, thing that stands out is the number of players there was genuine hope and enthusiasm for, the ones highlighted below in particular, but none of whom have really cracked on to play at a high level, for one reason or another. Even Barrie McKay seems to have fallen out of favour at Forest and it's difficult to imagine his next move will be up the way.

Lewis MacLeod
Fraser Aird
Barrie McKay
Ryan Hardie
Andy Murdoch
Robbie Crawford
Callum Gallagher
Tom Walsh
Rhys McCabe
Danny Stoney
Luca Gasparotto
Alan Smith
Charlie Telfer
Click to expand...


Lewis and Jamie Ness destroyed by injuries or they would be top players
 
I think the issue people had with Ally was particularly in the 'unbeaten' season was that he drove older players into the ground instead of giving some younger guys a chance in meaningless games.
 
ferris72 said:
I think the issue people had with Ally was particularly in the 'unbeaten' season was that he drove older players into the ground instead of giving some younger guys a chance in meaningless games.
Click to expand...
Very true,but there were more than one issue with Ally as manager-a lot more.I'll leave it at that as don't want it to turn into another bashing thread.
 
Good read mate.

My own thoughts on Pedro are that he used youth players to paper over cracks. Performances/results are giving a bit of slack when a youth player is making debut.
 
cav said:
Very true,but there were more than one issue with Ally as manager-a lot more.I'll leave it at that as don't want it to turn into another bashing thread.
Click to expand...
me too, that's why I only commented on the youth aspect of the OP :)
 
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Pepe Silvia said:
Good read mate.

My own thoughts on Pedro are that he used youth players to paper over cracks. Performances/results are giving a bit of slack when a youth player is making debut.
Click to expand...

Pedro used youths

1. As he was left with a poor squad
2. to see who was good enough and who wasn't
3. He believed in them

The others used them through necessity due to injuries and suspensions,

Pedro got stick for not playing Hyndman every week for 90 mins, what was the point when he was leaving at the end of the season, he had to build a squad.

McCoist was in charge for nearly 170 games, Warburton around half that, and Pedro less than a third than Warburton so pro rata Pedro is a stand out.

Saying McCoist gave youth a proper chance is like saying so did Walter Smith. It just didn't happen.

Had Smith stayed Barry Ferguson would have left, pretty sure we had accepted a ridiculous bid from Hearts and he considered leaving as he wasn't getting a chance.
 
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