Grigo Yossarian
Well-Known Member
Goalkeeper ! she used to catch the coins that were getting thrown at Protestant referees .
Excellent Alex
Goalkeeper ! she used to catch the coins that were getting thrown at Protestant referees .
I'm not sure what can be thrown at them from a football perspective. What one might want to do but what can be done are 2 different things. I live in Manchester and their issues are a total non story now on and off the pitch. Same at Southampton i suspect. We are on a Rangers forum here but is the topic being discussed across the breakfast tables around Scotland? I doubt it. Is there a real political will to go for the kill? No idea. Politicians go for votes when it suits them. I think Tomkins is doing a good thing but he will need media backing to keep his efforts in the public domain. Unfortunately the SNP needs "Celtic" votes so dont expect anything drastic being enforced anytime soon from that direction. Its up to good honest people to keep prodding away at this until something givesIf they were to do a Man City then the book should be thrown at them, with all sorts of sanctions open to consideration or better still suspend their licence for a considerable length of time.
It is political dynamite like you say. But let’s look at politics. Homework has to be done. Granted this should all have been done sooner by the party that’s in so called control of Scotland. But they rely on nothing else but votes.
And then we have Humza as a justice secretary. Well let’s look at that more closely imo. I fully understand what your saying and I hope that the inquiry not only brings Celtic to justice but actually ends the SNP government in Scotland.
We all know who knew. We all know who still knows.
And I also understand and agree that a bigger stance should have been taken by the tories in Scotland. I also agree with you about the closely monitoring part of the reply. That’s the same reply I’ve had off Celtic sponsors. Towards the end of her statement like you say she wants a full independent inquiry. That’s the important thing in this. Never stated by any opposition leader so far as far as I know.
Hopefully this is the start. A positive reply and the press will see this.
So to be blunt. Get the snp out of politics. They have proved now they are not fit for purpose when they put votes before child abuse. A path of a republic of Scotland is what they want. With Irish republicanism within their ranks a very dangerous path to to go down. For her reply towards the end of her statement personally tells me that something has been found out otherwise she wouldn’t put her political career on the line.
Because of the snp this has been a slow process. Nobody else’s fault. Again this is only my opinion.
I'm not sure what can be thrown at them from a football perspective. What one might want to do but what can be done are 2 different things. I live in Manchester and their issues are a total non story now on and off the pitch. Same at Southampton i suspect. We are on a Rangers forum here but is the topic being discussed across the breakfast tables around Scotland? I doubt it. Is there a real political will to go for the kill? No idea. Politicians go for votes when it suits them. I think Tomkins is doing a good thing but he will need media backing to keep his efforts in the public domain. Unfortunately the SNP needs "Celtic" votes so dont expect anything drastic being enforced anytime soon from that direction. Its up to good honest people to keep prodding away at this until something gives
The sfa is run by Celtic so they will escape punishment ..the sfa are also up to their necks in this .do you honestly think that they will punish themselves.Aside from the reputational damage and no longer being able to talk about their history with any pride, I would be very surprised if there are no punishments that affect them materially.
So I don't see how they can escape unscathed from this.
Excellent work mate.Just received this from Ruth Davidson
Thank you for writing to me with your concerns surrounding historical child abuse within Scottish football.
The reports that have emerged in recent years are extremely distressing, and while it is welcome that Jim Torbett and others have been convicted for their depraved acts, this issue clearly goes wider. Any further allegations of criminality must be swiftly investigated by the police so that further criminal proceedings can be brought where necessary.
The Scottish Football Association’s Chief Executive has apologised to those young people who suffered sexual abuse in football and I think he was right to do so. The Independent Review of Sexual Abuse in Scottish Football commissioned by the SFA found child protection policies at all levels were and still are not fit for purpose. The report has made a number of recommendations to address this and I believe they should be implemented as soon as possible. It is vital that we in Parliament play our part in holding the SFA and other bodies to account on this
Further to this, my colleague Adam Tomkins, MSP for Glasgow, has written to Ian Maxwell, chief executive of the SFA and to Peter Lawwell, chief executive of Celtic FC to seek urgent meetings on this subject. Through a series of criminal trials, we now know something of the scale of the abuse committed by a number of the men associated with Celtic boys’ club. What we do not know is what Celtic FC knew about these offences and when they knew it. These questions must now be independently and fully investigated and, if necessary, a compensation scheme should be established such as that set up earlier this year by Manchester City FC.
It is clear that victims of child abuse in football have been let down, and I very much hope Police Scotland, clubs and the SFA will give them the closure they need and the justice they deserve.
Please be assured the Scottish Conservatives will closely monitor developments on this matter over the coming weeks and months.
Thank you once again for taking the time to contact me.
Yours sincerely,
Ruth Davidson
Rt Hon Ruth Davidson MSP
Leader of the Scottish Conservatives
MSP for Edinburgh Central
Scottish Parliament
.
I think that it’s almost 100% certain that the bunnet knew. Was it not him who stopped Burns bringing Torbett back in?
Yes undoubtedly B.M. he's another one who knew about the abuse and did the total of he-haw,when he could have contacted the cops,(maybe he did and was told to back off) and set the ball rolling for justice for those young men,the whole thing stinks.
a club who had their ground shut during the second world war for chanting pro hitler songs?
that pride?
Hi Bears
Here is my reply to previous post,if I've missed anything please let me know.
Dear Nick,Ruth
Would like to thank you for your prompt and honest reply just as I expected, as you say this has been going on for to long now without any closure for the victims.
However many organisations should be taking the same stand as yourselves such SNP,Labour other political parties, religious organisations Glasgow Councillors,Police Scotland ,spl,sfa and others but seem to be side stepping this evil issue rather than meeting it face on and dealing with it appropriately,I would like to think they would now follow your lead and speak their mind openly and honestly on this and if possible your party inform them of your stance,once again many thanks for your prompt and honest reply.
The bonnet stopped Cairney returning though did he not ?
Yes he did,my mistake Grigo,apologies for that I'll get my facts correct before posting,mistruths helps no-one.
The sfa is run by Celtic so they will escape punishment ..the sfa are also up to their necks in this .do you honestly think that they will punish themselves.
They should have been shut down right then. Treason during the war.a club who had their ground shut during the second world war for chanting pro hitler songs?
that pride?
I'm not sure what can be thrown at them from a football perspective. What one might want to do but what can be done are 2 different things.
Its up to good honest people to keep prodding away at this until something gives
Thank you. Please note my deliberate pun with the term prodding. No chance those dogs will call themselves outAgree Andrew.
Thank you. Please note my deliberate pun with the term prodding. No chance those dogs will call themselves out
After the lectures we got from Liewell and plenty others in the community about “ In the name of sporting integrity “ we cheated by using EBTs and we were swiftly dealt with by ending up at the bottom of the Scottish league table and they all got the boot in because it was Rangers that were in the firing line , well what is the big hold up now “ in the name of sporting integrity “ to multiple crimes committed to children in the care of CFC which were 100% far more serious than the use of EBTs which were legal at the time ? Have all those Pillars of Society suddenly been struck dumb ? Was the use of EBTs far more serious a crime than the sexual abuse of innocent kids by filthy paedophiles ? Where are headlines condemning this filthy so called sports club ? Where are all the mouth pieces on the football channels who were horrified at the “ cheating Rangers “? who were all blowing their trumpets and getting their boot in to our Club ? They have all gone as quiet as a church mouse when it comes to their beloved bheasts from the East . Well, I think I can speak for every supporter of Rangers FC when I say everyone of us are Extremely Proud of our Club’s History , can you shower of “ Wise Monkeys “ who refuse to see , hear or speak no evil honestly say the same about your club ? Hypocrites each and every one .It will be up to us, both the club and supporters to demand it. The rest of the country will just ignore us or tell us to f*ck off.
We need to keep at this until proper justice is done and these bastards are either in the bottom tier or shut down.
Correct alex. Their day will come.After the lectures we got from Liewell and plenty others in the community about “ In the name of sporting integrity “ we cheated by using EBTs and we were swiftly dealt with by ending up at the bottom of the Scottish league table and they all got the boot in because it was Rangers that were in the firing line , well what is the big hold up now “ in the name of sporting integrity “ to multiple crimes committed to children in the care of CFC which were 100% far more serious than the use of EBTs which were legal at the time ? Have all those Pillars of Society suddenly been struck dumb ? Was the use of EBTs far more serious a crime than the sexual abuse of innocent kids by filthy paedophiles ? Where are headlines condemning this filthy so called sports club ? Where are all the mouth pieces on the football channels who were horrified at the “ cheating Rangers “? who were all blowing their trumpets and getting their boot in to our Club ? They have all gone as quiet as a church mouse when it comes to their beloved bheasts from the East . Well, I think I can speak for every supporter of Rangers FC when I say everyone of us are Extremely Proud of our Club’s History , can you shower of “ Wise Monkeys “ who refuse to see , hear or speak no evil honestly say the same about your club ? Hypocrites each and every one .
A few of us on both threads are working tirelessly to bring justice. Frustrating it’s a slow process but that’s down to a corrupt Scottish government that puts votes before child abuse.In all this we have to fully understand that Celtic FC are ran by the Irish Mafia. The only way to deal with this is via the Government. A fully Independent enquiry is necessary that is completely apart from The SFA and all other key stakeholders involved. This mob and I mean mob won’t give up their deepest secrets freely.
Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t keep going of course but watch for things going quiet and journos getting cold feet should things hot up.
After the lectures we got from Liewell and plenty others in the community about “ In the name of sporting integrity “ we cheated by using EBTs and we were swiftly dealt with by ending up at the bottom of the Scottish league table and they all got the boot in because it was Rangers that were in the firing line , well what is the big hold up now “ in the name of sporting integrity “ to multiple crimes committed to children in the care of CFC which were 100% far more serious than the use of EBTs which were legal at the time ? Have all those Pillars of Society suddenly been struck dumb ? Was the use of EBTs far more serious a crime than the sexual abuse of innocent kids by filthy paedophiles ? Where are headlines condemning this filthy so called sports club ? Where are all the mouth pieces on the football channels who were horrified at the “ cheating Rangers “? who were all blowing their trumpets and getting their boot in to our Club ? They have all gone as quiet as a church mouse when it comes to their beloved bheasts from the East . Well, I think I can speak for every supporter of Rangers FC when I say everyone of us are Extremely Proud of our Club’s History , can you shower of “ Wise Monkeys “ who refuse to see , hear or speak no evil honestly say the same about your club ? Hypocrites each and every one .
After the lectures we got from Liewell and plenty others in the community about “ In the name of sporting integrity “ we cheated by using EBTs and we were swiftly dealt with by ending up at the bottom of the Scottish league table and they all got the boot in because it was Rangers that were in the firing line , well what is the big hold up now “ in the name of sporting integrity “ to multiple crimes committed to children in the care of CFC which were 100% far more serious than the use of EBTs which were legal at the time ? Have all those Pillars of Society suddenly been struck dumb ? Was the use of EBTs far more serious a crime than the sexual abuse of innocent kids by filthy paedophiles ? Where are headlines condemning this filthy so called sports club ? Where are all the mouth pieces on the football channels who were horrified at the “ cheating Rangers “? who were all blowing their trumpets and getting their boot in to our Club ? They have all gone as quiet as a church mouse when it comes to their beloved bheasts from the East . Well, I think I can speak for every supporter of Rangers FC when I say everyone of us are Extremely Proud of our Club’s History , can you shower of “ Wise Monkeys “ who refuse to see , hear or speak no evil honestly say the same about your club ? Hypocrites each and every one .
Adam Tomkins should be asking the S.F.A. questions along the following lines
Did the S.F.A./S.F.L./S.P.F.L. know of the abuse at Celtic f.c. and the extent of it?
Celtic have always claimed the boys club was a separate entity yet their directors carried out an investigation in 1986, clearing the abusers and threatening libel, what else have they lied about?
How was Peter Lawell able to hold position within S.F.A. when he was employed by Celtic at the time of Torbett's reign, having been brought back to the club, especially if the S.F.A. knew?
Have Celtic disregarded sporting integrity by covering up over 4 decades of abuse, as a member club has a duty of care to provide a safe environment for youngsters?
Did Celtic gain a sporting advantage as they may not have been able to attract/afford certain players due to morals and sponsorship money over the period of the abuse?
Should honours won over this period be under scrutiny regarding the possible sporting advantage gained?
Why did Fergus McCann change the club name when he appeared on the scene,did he know of the abuse and failed to disclose the information?
Was there N.D.A./payments issued following abuse on a tour of U.S.A. during the 90's?
Is there still abuse happening at Celtic and being covered up? as Peter Lawell recently stated that the club has been carrying out a secret investigation for the past 2 years, whilst during this period still claiming to be a separate entity.
Did Strathclyde police/ Police Scotland know of the abuse, did they carry out any investigation over the 4 decade period?
Do Celtic have records of all boys who played with the boys club since inception?Do they have records of all coaches/staff operating with the club/boys club since inception? Do they have records of complaints made since inception?
These are only a few questions that need answered and it is paramount that a public enquiry takes place to bring closure and recompense to those poor souls who suffered abuse at the hands of reprehensible monsters.
Or the PF.This. I wouldn’t trust Police Scotland with the evidence
Agree, she should be the leader of the Liberal party with that reply.McNeill said it was an open secret under oath in court.
It's a matter or record that Ba' face physically booted Torbett out of the scum hut.
I smell a good degree of hedging her bets from Ruth.
Let's not upset yahoos here.
Very true wbpb , They slated us about hospitals that could have been built and all the poor kids that could have been helped , funny how their silence is suddenly deafening now just shows how much the hypocrites really care about kids , their shameful paedo infested club is much more important to them than the suffering of the victims .Remember the slogan at the time; 'Think about the kids, all that money that could have been spent on schools, poor weans having to use food banks' etc.
Now they couldn't give two fc_uks about weans.
The tide has certainly turned regards the moral outrage they showed regarding Big Bad Rangers , they have become dummies now and the silence is deafening so we must make sure they get what they are due in the name of sporting integrity of course .Even the newspapers who are actually highlighting these crimes are in effect still protecting them. Because nowhere in either of those two journals is there any moral outrage of what they have done and certainly no articles whatsoever relating to possible sanctions against Celtic.
No Goggs ! I think the Iron Hand of the Roman Empire still tops the bill for human depravity even in these modern times . I even believe they inhumanely murdered the Son of God so nothing surprises me with that Mafia run religion .I see the Archbishop of Westminster was “focussed too much on the reputation of the church instead of the welfare of children” an inquiry into child sex abuse has found
Cardinal Vincent Nichols is the current leader of the Roman Catholics in England and Wales
This religion is totally out of hand now
From their football club to their cult
They appear to think they are above the law
Does any other body behave with such depravity and disconcern for children
Kids could certainly have been helped if they had conducted themselves with any moral integrity instead of focussing on their reputation.Very true wbpb , They slated us about hospitals that could have been built and all the poor kids that could have been helped , funny how their silence is suddenly deafening now just shows how much the hypocrites really care about kids , their shameful paedo infested club is much more important to them than the suffering of the victims .
I'm not sure what can be thrown at them from a football perspective. What one might want to do but what can be done are 2 different things. I live in Manchester and their issues are a total non story now on and off the pitch. Same at Southampton i suspect. We are on a Rangers forum here but is the topic being discussed across the breakfast tables around Scotland? I doubt it. Is there a real political will to go for the kill? No idea. Politicians go for votes when it suits them. I think Tomkins is doing a good thing but he will need media backing to keep his efforts in the public domain. Unfortunately the SNP needs "Celtic" votes so dont expect anything drastic being enforced anytime soon from that direction. Its up to good honest people to keep prodding away at this until something gives
This is the reality.
Simply because Man City begun a compensation fund or Penn State have been forced to shell out hundreds of millions of dollars doesn’t necessarily mean these are templates by which similar crimes are punished.
There appears to be little desire from the Scottish establishment to unearth the buried bodies on this thing and I suspect a large part of that is down to the hugely negative image they believe it will paint of our society.
Only once the trials begin in earnest might that change.
In all this we have to fully understand that Celtic FC are ran by the Irish Mafia. The only way to deal with this is via the Government. A fully Independent enquiry is necessary that is completely apart from The SFA and all other key stakeholders involved. This mob and I mean mob won’t give up their deepest secrets freely.
Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t keep going of course but watch for things going quiet and journos getting cold feet should things hot up.
I’m voting conservative until the SNP are out. They were the main party up until the mid 60s then they tactically voted, we played along.I feel the same. I’ve been accused of having this view because it’s Celtic. Only a small minded person would think that. This is criminal what they have done and they have covered it up for half a century. I hope the victims families get justice more than anything else. But that club has to be brought to its knees. And the reason I say that is not only the convicted should be punished. The people who knew also need to be brought before the British justice system. Ex serving members who served in Northern Ireland are being brought in front of the courts. We all know what I’m talking about. Especially ex regiment lads. We done nothing but served our country and the queen. But some bastards can stand outside the piggery promoting the IRA and raise money for their so called combatants and our police are powerless? That hurts not only me but a lot of us who’ve served. Maybe I’m going a bit deep. I apologise for that. But when an English ex para turns round to me and says ffs pal. Look what we done and your country let’s them march the streets then I’ve no answer for him. So I will vote conservative now for that reason Grigo. I’ll probably get hammered for this. Not just us paras. But every serving member that served across the water. Hold your head up high. British justice needs to be served on the poison that is in our society. Call it out as they call it. Fck off out our free society if you don’t like it. Child abuse and promoting IRA.
Ok rant over. I’m going to walk away now
Again though that would be people putting image and perception ahead of justice. We can't keep failing the victims.
Great post mate.Adam Tomkins should be asking the S.F.A. questions along the following lines
Did the S.F.A./S.F.L./S.P.F.L. know of the abuse at Celtic f.c. and the extent of it?
Celtic have always claimed the boys club was a separate entity yet their directors carried out an investigation in 1986, clearing the abusers and threatening libel, what else have they lied about?
How was Peter Lawell able to hold position within S.F.A. when he was employed by Celtic at the time of Torbett's reign, having been brought back to the club, especially if the S.F.A. knew?
Have Celtic disregarded sporting integrity by covering up over 4 decades of abuse, as a member club has a duty of care to provide a safe environment for youngsters?
Did Celtic gain a sporting advantage as they may not have been able to attract/afford certain players due to morals and sponsorship money over the period of the abuse?
Should honours won over this period be under scrutiny regarding the possible sporting advantage gained?
Why did Fergus McCann change the club name when he appeared on the scene,did he know of the abuse and failed to disclose the information?
Was there N.D.A./payments issued following abuse on a tour of U.S.A. during the 90's?
Is there still abuse happening at Celtic and being covered up? as Peter Lawell recently stated that the club has been carrying out a secret investigation for the past 2 years, whilst during this period still claiming to be a separate entity.
Did Strathclyde police/ Police Scotland know of the abuse, did they carry out any investigation over the 4 decade period?
Do Celtic have records of all boys who played with the boys club since inception?Do they have records of all coaches/staff operating with the club/boys club since inception? Do they have records of complaints made since inception?
These are only a few questions that need answered and it is paramount that a public enquiry takes place to bring closure and recompense to those poor souls who suffered abuse at the hands of reprehensible monsters.
And then Blair came along and sent us to an unnecessary war that I served in and signed a good Friday agreement as they put it that only benefited a certain element imo. I won’t vote until a political party takes on Irish republicanism. Watching boys from my regiment and not only my regiment that have suffered because of politics is heartbreaking. And then to sign an agreement where they can still carry on what they are doing. Even to this day.I’m voting conservative until the SNP are out. They were the main party up until the mid 60s then they tactically voted, we played along.
I do not think Rangers fans will "feel cheated" by any level of compensation for victims.Until court action begins it’s something of a phoney war.
The victims are unlikely to be failed in as much as I believe compensation is inevitable, but some Rangers fans may feel cheated by its scale.
IMO.
Was the use of EBTs far more serious a crime than the sexual abuse of innocent kids by filthy paedophiles ?
Celtic can not be compared with clubs in England
Celtic discovered they had Pedos but failed to inform the police
Celtic discovered they had pedos yet hired the very same men into a position to be in contact with children
Celtic conducted a investigation and found no pedos in the 1990’s working for them and no further action to be taken. Who done the investigation and where is the report? Was the SFA/SPL informed?
Celtic claim they have been investigating themselves for the last 2 years ! Who is doing it and what is the qualifications? Have the police been informed? Has the stockmarmrket been informed? Has the SPL SFA been informed?
So many questions yet so little answers.
Writings on the wall for tim McGinnis didn'tGood on him.Victims first for a change.
The problem Celtic have got at the minute is that Tompkins has the full backing of the Scottish Conservative party on this, and unlike the SNP and Scottish labour PL can't control that or them, he panicked when he came out with the secret investigation nonsense for this very reason.
The SFA will have similar concerns.
I have no doubt Tompkins will not back down on this at all, and the more mistakes they make the worse it will be for them.
I still can’t really get over Lawwell’s letter back to Adam Tomkins last week. Imagine the arrogance and sheer pomposity of using phrases like the “due process of law”, which involves secret insurance company led investigation, to a professor of law? Or braying condescendingly about “misconceptions of liability”, again to a professor of law, who has to point out he has never even mentioned liability.
I think Lawwell has become so used to running rings around the incompetent, sycophantic fools that comprise most of the Scottish press and football authorities that he doesn’t realise how exposed, stupid and arrogant that letter made him and his rotten club look.
This is the bit they should be shut down for.
They are the club like no other full paedo ..no other clubs like them more like..hail hail lift a shirt tailIt is as simple as this.
If they say that the use of EBTs was worse (or the same), they are putting themselves on the level of those who play down child abuse.
If they say that child abuse was worse, then it can only (by their own words) be compared to match-fixing, which really means that they have to be thrown out of top-level football entirely.
If they attempt to make a case that "they are different", then they have to be asked if they think that top players who signed for CFC would have done so if the child abuse had been made public earlier.
Have Larsson and Moravcik and others ever been asked on Twatter about this ?
If they would have been happy to sign for CFC, knowing that the club was riddled with child abusers, plus a boardroom happy to cover up for them ?
I do not think Rangers fans will "feel cheated" by any level of compensation for victims.
They may well feel cheated if sporting sanctions do not reflect the the seriousness and number of crimes over a long period of time, and the concealment by successive Celtc directors and officials.
Permanent expulsion from football would be appropriate imo.
Good point skorn , in an honest decent society there can be no way out for them .It is as simple as this.
If they say that the use of EBTs was worse (or the same), they are putting themselves on the level of those who play down child abuse.
If they say that child abuse was worse, then it can only (by their own words) be compared to match-fixing, which really means that they have to be thrown out of top-level football entirely.
If they attempt to make a case that "they are different", then they have to be asked if they think that top players who signed for CFC would have done so if the child abuse had been made public earlier.
Have Larsson and Moravcik and others ever been asked on Twatter about this ?
If they would have been happy to sign for CFC, knowing that the club was riddled with child abusers, plus a boardroom happy to cover up for them ?
I think you may be correct mate, it's a long held belief I've had that the system is out to protect them (Snatsis etc) and we are not well enough organised to go on a meaningful attack. Also the dearth of authoritative senior voices supporting the victims is staggering.Sporting sanctions are unlikely, IMO.
As a result, if compensation claims only total a relatively modest amount, I think a lot of fans will feel aggrieved that they managed to get out of it comparatively unscathed.
I know I will.