Gordon Smith insists Rangers would have beaten Celtic had he implemented VAR as SFA chief executive

BlueMeanie

BlueMeanie

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The former SFA chief executive reckons has detailed his fruitless quest to get VAR implemented ten years ago.


Gordon Smith believes he could have won the Betfred Cup Final for Rangers a decade ago.
But Franz Beckenbauer, Pele, Dino Zoff, Eusebio, Bobby Charlton and Michel Platini conspired to reject his idea for fooalltb reform.
The former chief executive of the SFA admits to bittersweet emotions as the impact of VAR is felt throughout much of world football.
Sadly Scotland continues to lag behind the game’s global pacesetters with plans to introduce the new technology still on the drawing board at Hampden’s sixth floor.
Ibrox boss Steven Gerrard lamented its absence in the aftermath of Sunday’s Old Firm final, won by a controversial offside strike from Celtic defender Christopher Jullien.
Smith rolled his eyes as he watched the match from home and reflected on the change he tried to introduce as a member of UEFA and FIFA’s influential football committees.

But he’s backing his old club to bounce back and qualify for the last 32 of the Europa League by taking a point from their clash with Young Boys tomorrow night.



That’s also a situation Smith knows well – his goal in Switzerland proved decisive in sealing a 3-2 aggregate win for Jock Wallace’s squad the last time the teams met, in the Cup Winners’ Cup in August 1977.
Smith said: “Celtic’s goal was definitely offside and it would have been confirmed by VAR, had it been available in Scottish football. I was a member of the UEFA and FIFA players’ committee in 2009 when I proposed video analysis should be considered to improve the decision-making in football.
“It was rejected by the rest of the panel because it would ‘spoil football’. I argued Hawk-Eye technology had improved tennis but Beckenbauer insisted they were both very different sports.
“I was motivated to act by Ireland’s defeat against France in the play-offs for the 2010 World Cup, when Thierry Henry clearly handled the ball for the decisive goal.
“I suggested each technical area be allowed three dispute calls in every game but they didn’t want to know. The committee was made up of some giants of the game – if it was a team, I’d never have been picked.
“However, they exposed the mindset so prevalent in football in which every new idea, no matter how valid, is initially rejected. It’s a bit dispiriting to see VAR eventually introduced in so many countries and yet Scotland has been very slow to bring it in.



“They talk about the training and cost but I still don’t see why we can’t introduce a form of it at the top level. Everyone sitting at home knew within seconds the goal was offside, so why couldn’t someone transmit that message immediately to the referee?
“They’ll argue they need so many cameras at so many games to cover all the angles, but it’s more of an issue at the big games when there’s complete camera coverage. Away from those games, it becomes a pub argument.
“I believe the decision proved decisive as Rangers would’ve gone on to win had the goal been called offside.
“Celtic were not an attacking force and created very little but after opening the scoring they were able to drop back and hang on in defence, especially when they went down to 10 men. I don’t like to see any game won by a goal that shouldn’t have been allowed.”
Smith, who also played for FC Basel, is backing his former club to bounce back at Ibrox.
They have given themselves little room for manoeuvre after losing the cup final and dropping two points in the league at Aberdeen to allow Celtic to establish a narrow lead at the top of the table.



A season of promise could develop into another campaign of self-doubt if Rangers fail to make the knockout stages of the Europa League and trail further behind in the title race.
Smith said: “I still keep an eye on Swiss football and Young Boys have emerged again in recent years to challenge the dominance of Basel.
“They’re a decent side but I still fancy Rangers to take the point they need, so long as they take the positives from Sunday and build on it.
“Alfredo Morelos will be keen to make amends to the fans after his performance at Hampden, where he looked too desperate to score his first goal against Celtic.
“He was shooting when he should have passed and had such a nervous look on his face when he stepped up to take that penalty. I believe if he’d a goal under his belt against Celtic, he would have scored.
“The season for Rangers really hangs on this month and the games against Young Boys and Celtic on December 29, in particular, are crucial.


“Rangers have lost the first trophy of the season, but if they make the last 32 it will be progress on last season.
“It’s also important they take something from Parkhead at the end of the month because a victory could potentially take Celtic eight points clear before the winter break.”
Smith knows what it takes to secure an important goal against Young Boys after he netted 
on his first European start for Rangers against the Swiss 
four decades ago.
They took a 1-0 lead to Bern from the first leg courtesy of a John Greig strike but were losing 2-1 before Smith struck in 72 minutes to seal a 2-2 draw on the night. He scored 27 goals in total that season from midfield as Jock Wallace led the club to their second Treble in three years.
He said: “I was fortunate to score for Rangers in my first league game, first European game, first Old Firm match and my first cup final. It was a season never to be forgotten.”
 
VAR is wrecking football, but his proposal for a set number of challenges for each team would go a long way to fixing it. 3 might be too many though, I'd go with one per half (and like tennis you keep it if you win the challenge).
 
VAR is a pain, however it would have proved our point, one with offside, two with retake of penalty. Apart from cost, Liewell couldn’t manipulate his Officials on the Pitch, though he possibly would have had his plants watching TV screens, to deny, deny, deny Us?
 
VAR is needed and we were screwed out of a result on Sunday.

However....

Had we taken our numerous chances we would have won the game comfortably.

We played against 10 men for half an hour and cannot really blame anybody but ourselves.

I am terrified we slip in to the victim mentality.

Once there, it's impossible to shake off.
 
Big Buff said:
Keep VAR out of Scottish football until they fix it's implementation.
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My problem with VAR is how far back its going.
I couldn’t think how to put this so bear with me.
Only the phase of play leading up to the incident being checked should be investigated.
Not that there was a foul on the halfway line two minutes or six passes ago.
 
Here’s the thing with VAR were it to be introduced in Scotland.

So on Sunday there’s two scenarios:

1) the ref runs off to consult the video evidence before deciding that actually it wasn’t a goal. Cue Yahoo meltdown with all and sundry raging for days on their behalf in the media. Lennon, Lawwell and the usual goons on TV question the impartiality of the refs so come the next marginal call against Timbo, the official decides it isn’t worth the hassle and calls it in their favour.

2) the ref runs off to consult the video evidence before deciding that the goal was good.
Rangers protest but few in the media rally to their defence and it’s dismissed as sour grapes.

I’m loosely in favour of VAR as a tool - I actually thought it worked well in the last World Cup for the most part - but I have absolutely no confidence that it won’t be abused in Scotland with the Yahoos receiving a disproportionate number of calls in their favour.
 
dt17 said:
Those saying VAR is wrecking football. Other than the Premiership in England it's really not.
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Agree, Monday night I was switching between the Stuttgart and Arsenal games. Stuggart get a pen where the ref has went to the monitor, quick look awards the pen.

Quicker than VAR awarded West Hams goal which should never have needed more than one glance to see it was not even close to being a handball.
 
tazzabear said:
My problem with VAR is how far back its going.
I couldn’t think how to put this so bear with me.
Only the phase of play leading up to the incident being checked should be investigated.
Not that there was a foul on the halfway line two minutes or six passes ago.
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I'd tend to agree at first however it's grey area really as to what goals should stand and which shouldn't.

I'll give an example - We are up for a corner and Scott Brown elbows one of our cente halfs who goes down. The ref doesn't witness this so play rages on for a bit and they score without the ball going our of play whilst we're a centre half down.

Good goal or a clear and obvious error with them gaining an unfair advantage?

I know what I'd go for.
 
Tpol_rfc said:
I'd tend to agree at first however it's grey area really as to what goals should stand and which shouldn't.

I'll give an example - We are up for a corner and Scott Brown elbows one of our cente halfs who goes down. The ref doesn't witness this so play rages on for a bit and they score without the ball going our of play whilst we're a centre half down.

Good goal or a clear and obvious error with them gaining an unfair advantage?

I know what I'd go for.
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By the letter of the law it should be brought back to the original foul.

This has already happened in the Champions League this season I'm sure. Atalanta game maybe.
 
VAR is needed. Rangers are cheated out of decisions by refs in this country. Numerous examples, plenty in the last 10 days.

They say it’s too expensive to implement, which is simply an excuse. Its a telly and another ref viewing it. There are cameras at every top flight game in Scotland, it’s a nonsense to suggest it’s expensive. It isn’t.
 
Bowery Boy said:
VAR is needed in Scottish football as soon as possible, well if we want to challenge for honours anyway
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It is often stated in the SMSM that we can't afford it, when will the SMSM employ their forensic financial experts to examine the accounts of the SFA and the SPFL ? So far I haven't heard of any proposals to actually examine the cost. I often wonder why the accounts of the SFA and the SPFL are not made public but I do have a good idea why.
 
Moodymann said:
VAR is needed. Rangers are cheated out of decisions by refs in this country. Numerous examples, plenty in the last 10 days.

They say it’s too expensive to implement, which is simply an excuse. Its a telly and another ref viewing it. There are cameras at every top flight game in Scotland, it’s a nonsense to suggest it’s expensive. It isn’t.
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Initially, I agreed.
I posted that we had nothing to fear and, given our collective experiences, plenty to gain.
I’m just not so sure anymore.
Especially when the BT referee, and I’m thinking this would not be too dis-similar, can rule that neither challenge on Morelos in the Aberdeen game by Taylor(?) nor Brown’s challenge were worthy of a penalty.
 
HandsomeHead said:
Here’s the thing with VAR were it to be introduced in Scotland.

So on Sunday there’s two scenarios:

1) the ref runs off to consult the video evidence before deciding that actually it wasn’t a goal. Cue Yahoo meltdown with all and sundry raging for days on their behalf in the media. Lennon, Lawwell and the usual goons on TV question the impartiality of the refs so come the next marginal call against Timbo, the official decides it isn’t worth the hassle and calls it in their favour.

2) the ref runs off to consult the video evidence before deciding that the goal was good.
Rangers protest but few in the media rally to their defence and it’s dismissed as sour grapes.

I’m loosely in favour of VAR as a tool - I actually thought it worked well in the last World Cup for the most part - but I have absolutely no confidence that it won’t be abused in Scotland with the Yahoos receiving a disproportionate number of calls in their favour.
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The problem with your scenario is that VAR would have shown at the time it was blatant offside. Not even the most deranged amongst them could say "those still images and VAR are lying" (okay, they would).

Its not like it was marginal or even the Celtc players were onside to begin with then ran offside. They were offside before, during and after the ball was kicked at the FK.
 
RWL12 said:
The problem with your scenario is that VAR would have shown at the time it was blatant offside. Not even the most deranged amongst them could say "those still images and VAR are lying" (okay, they would).

Its not like it was marginal or even the Celtc players were onside to begin with then ran offside. They were offside before, during and after the ball was kicked at the FK.
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I think you've just answered your own question there.
 
RWL12 said:
The problem with your scenario is that VAR would have shown at the time it was blatant offside. Not even the most deranged amongst them could say "those still images and VAR are lying" (okay, they would).

Its not like it was marginal or even the Celtc players were onside to begin with then ran offside. They were offside before, during and after the ball was kicked at the FK.
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VAR shouldn’t be necessary for that decision on Sunday. The linesman if doing the job he is paid well to do he knows they are offside the entire time. It really isn’t a difficult decision and would be one I’d expect someone just starting out at the job on a public park on a Sunday morning to make 10/10.
 
What we really need to do is forget all this shite about finding ways to help the officials.... training, more money, full time, VAR, less moaning from supporters more sympathy/dignity/respect... is all bollocks.

It is not an easy situation to deal with but id start by calling them cheats. Lets just be honest about how dishonest our refs are put them under some pressure they obv believe we dont have the bottle to do it. Thats why we get cheated, even when the ref isnt so bad the 2 linesmen or even 4th official does something strange to manipulate and influence the game.

I really dont understand how anyone can watch these officials behaving the way do on the park and believe it would be any different watching tv replays. If anything it would get worse because big Craig would alert Bobby to any off the ball stuff hes missed and find any excuse to not award us goals. We already have VAR in the C/O and people like Hugh Keevins on radio, or Michael Stewart on tv, its all lies, bias and propaganda.

If the linesguys can watch the keeper charge out at the penalty and ignore it or let them away with the clear offside how can you be sure someone like Craig Thomson or Charlie Richmond on VAR isnt sitting laughing and suggesting good decision by officials onside, onside. Goal.

I also have a feeling we would do VAR slightly different here with the video ref telling the coward on the park the "correct" call as we are told it saves time but really more importantly allows more cheating when it comes to the most important decisions in vital fixtures we play.
 
Moodymann said:
VAR is needed. Rangers are cheated out of decisions by refs in this country. Numerous examples, plenty in the last 10 days.

They say it’s too expensive to implement, which is simply an excuse. Its a telly and another ref viewing it. There are cameras at every top flight game in Scotland, it’s a nonsense to suggest it’s expensive. It isn’t.
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My only fear would be was who would be watching VAR as some/most people cannot be trusted to be honest when they are judging us.
 
There is a lot of work needed to be done on the rules before VAR will work. This is my suggestion

30 second time limit for VAR Check

This rule has two major benefits in that; it stops the long and frustrating gaps in play and keeps the game moving and it also means that the time allocated will provide a clear line in the sand for dubious calls.

Thirty seconds is more than enough time to come to a certain conclusion on 99% of decisions and the 1% which don’t quite fit in there is worth getting wrong to keep the game moving.

This rule will replace the wishy washy ‘clear and obvious’ which has a lot of grey area in it. As in 30 seconds it will have to be clear and obvious otherwise the on-field referees decision will stand.

Implementing this rule will benefit everyone.

Accidental Handball should be an indirect free-kick unless clearly deliberate or goal stopping

The rise of these stupid hand ball penalties being given in the last few years has been a frustration for many a fan. In most of these cases though the punishment doesn’t fit the crime. A free shot on goal in exchange for a whipped in cross which so happened to come off a defenders arm, its not a fair exchange. With VAR now involved these handballs aren’t ‘missed’ (usually a ref just using common sense) any more.

The introduction of indirect freekicks for any accidental handball would stop this issue as an indiect free kick is a much fairer trade for the situation which had previously occurred, especially in crosses which hit the arm just inside the box. Also what fan doesn’t love the drama of an indirect freekick, the more of those we have the better.

I would caveat that in the case of handball stopping a clear goal then a penalty should still be given.

Offside should be given only by the human eye with benefit of doubt to the attacker

These millimetre computer calls have probably been the worst thing about VAR so far. Where are they taking the line from? His knee, his big toe, his ampit? Is the line perfectly matched in terms of camera to pitch lines? Which frame are we stopping the pass from? When it exactly leaves his toe? Utter nonsense all of it.

The introduction of the 30 second rule would hopefully stop being an issue anyway, but the offside decision should only be made in the VAR room by the human eye and any benefit of doubt should go to the attacker. This means if your general body is in line with the defenders you will essentially be onside.

This for me is how the offside rule was always supposed to be implemented to stop attackers gaining major advantage by standing well out of play. When your big toe is 2mm ahead of a defender’s armpit there is no advantage being gained.
 
Too many people judging VAR from only watching English football. It’s actually worked very well on the continent. It’s only England where they have a 10 minute check on every incident and force the ref to stand on the pitch waiting an age like an idiot. The way England have implemented it is downright awful.

But, anyone saying they’d simply overlook the offside call needs to be real. They couldn’t, and if they did, well, highlights will be seen outside of Scotland too. If other countries (even England) see that then they’d be asking serous questions and asking why is it that in Scotland a referees can’t spot 3 players offside even with the benefit of multiple replays. I think you’d then be looking at an investigation and probably a lot of bother for the SFA and their confederates.
 
dt17 said:
Those saying VAR is wrecking football. Other than the Premiership in England it's really not.
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exactly this. England making a James hunt of it but other countries using it ok.

to look at that offside in cup final would've taken seconds
 
fergie1959 said:
Why do people think that we wouldn't be cheated by the referee in charge of VAR?
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Right now they can make terrible calls and get away with it because it's 'human error'.

If a ref / VAR official viewed their goal the other day and allowed it to stand we'd have every right to call them cheats. Quite simply, they couldn't get away with it anymore.
 
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here's something else from sunday.
how many times did collum gesture to the scum to stop time wasting without taking any action?
the same referee who booked alan mcgregor for time wasting at the piggery with 40, yes 40, minutes still to go when it was 0-0.
 
Danger Zone said:
But, anyone saying they’d simply overlook the offside call needs to be real. They couldn’t, and if they did, well, highlights will be seen outside of Scotland too. If other countries (even England) see that then they’d be asking serous questions and asking why is it that in Scotland a referees can’t spot 3 players offside even with the benefit of multiple replays. I think you’d then be looking at an investigation and probably a lot of bother for the SFA and their confederates.
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As far as I remember it from watching the World Cup last year (I never watch the EPL) the ref runs off to watch the replays then makes a decision based on that.

In a normal set of circumstances the chance to review the incident should allow him to make an accurate call, but I do wonder how that might be twisted in Scotland where we have compliant officers in place to supposedly catch incidents the ref may have missed that bizarrely seem to benefit one club more than any other.

So the question is (a timely HBO nod this): who watches the watchmen?

Who's overseeing the ref to make sure he gets VAR decisions right?

If Collum had consulted VAR and decided the goal should stand, who tells him he got it wrong and what action is taken?

As said earlier, if there's an opportunity to abuse it, my money would be on it happening in Scotland.
 
HandsomeHead said:
As far as I remember it from watching the World Cup last year (I never watch the EPL) the ref runs off to watch the replays then makes a decision based on that.

In a normal set of circumstances the chance to review the incident should allow him to make an accurate call, but I do wonder how that might be twisted in Scotland where we have compliant officers in place to supposedly catch incidents the ref may have missed that bizarrely seem to benefit one club more than any other.

So the question is (a timely HBO nod this): who watches the watchmen?

Who's overseeing the ref to make sure he gets VAR decisions right?

If Collum had consulted VAR and decided the goal should stand, who tells him he got it wrong and what action is taken?

As said earlier, if there's an opportunity to abuse it, my money would be on it happening in Scotland.
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Something like that offside would be impossible to ignore without drawing serious attention and serious suspicion.

But take an incident like the third penalty claim on Morelos, that sort of incident requires a degree of ersonal judgment and some refs would even interpret that incident differently, so with incidents like that I think it’s safe to say we’d get fùck all, VAR or no VAR.
 
Danger Zone said:
Something like that offside would be impossible to ignore without drawing serious attention and serious suspicion.

But take an incident like the third penalty claim on Morelos, that sort of incident requires a degree of ersonal judgment and some refs would even interpret that incident differently, so with incidents like that I think it’s safe to say we’d get fùck all, VAR or no VAR.
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That's my point though: who'd act on that attention or suspicion? The SFA? The SPFL? You can see where I'm going here, right?

"VAR evidence appeared to show Julien was offside, but ref Willie Collum allowed the goal to stand."

We've seen enough incredulity over officiating these past few years that we really shouldn't put anything past them.
 
HandsomeHead said:
That's my point though: who'd act on that attention or suspicion? The SFA? The SPFL? You can see where I'm going here, right?

"VAR evidence appeared to show Julien was offside, but ref Willie Collum allowed the goal to stand."

We've seen enough incredulity over officiating these past few years that we really shouldn't put anything past them.
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You'd still see Collum, Clancy, or Beaton award the exact same penalty decision at the other end due to personal judgement. Still plenty of room for cheating, and I believe some refs in Scotland are bent (As in being influenced by the media or death threats being the same thing).
 
HandsomeHead said:
That's my point though: who'd act on that attention or suspicion? The SFA? The SPFL? You can see where I'm going here, right?

"VAR evidence appeared to show Julien was offside, but ref Willie Collum allowed the goal to stand."

We've seen enough incredulity over officiating these past few years that we really shouldn't put anything past them.
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I’d would have to be a governing body that supersedes the SFA, FIFA. Of course there’s no chance the SFA would take action, the SFA are Celtic’s confederates, nothing more.

If we still conceded that goal with VAR in operation then you’d be looking at something of the likes of the Italian football scandal. They can get away with fucking us over on penalty calls where there’s some grey area, but offside is offside, it either is or it isn’t. So if they were to use the technology available and still allow that goal (with 3 of them offside) to stand, then people far and wide would start talking and it would become a big story in football and the relevant bodies would become aware that something fishy is going on.
 
dt17 said:
Those saying VAR is wrecking football. Other than the Premiership in England it's really not.
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Their implementation of it is baffling. The decision should always come down to the referee not some anonymous ref in a different room. If they think the ref has missed something they flag it up and the ref has a look, it doesn't have to be hard. It definitely worked well enough in the World Cup.
 
Cooperfan said:
You'd still see Collum, Clancy, or Beaton award the exact same penalty decision at the other end due to personal judgement. Still plenty of room for cheating, and I believe some refs in Scotland are bent (As in being influenced by the media or death threats being the same thing).
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Far less room for cheating.

Against Aberdeen, no ref could review the foul on Morelos and say it wasn't a penalty.

Same for their offside goal the other day.
 
VAR is only needed when decisions are tight and debatable,Sunday's decisions were non of above.The official should have done the job they are supposed to be trained and paid for.
 
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dt17 said:
Far less room for cheating.

Against Aberdeen, no ref could review the foul on Morelos and say it wasn't a penalty.

Same for their offside goal the other day.
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Hopefully but I was just saying we may see more penalties against us we wouldn't get.
 
Danger Zone said:
I’d would have to be a governing body that supersedes the SFA, FIFA. Of course there’s no chance the SFA would take action, the SFA are Celtic’s confederates, nothing more.

If we still conceded that goal with VAR in operation then you’d be looking at something of the likes of the Italian football scandal. They can get away with fucking us over on penalty calls where there’s some grey area, but offside is offside, it either is or it isn’t. So if they were to use the technology available and still allow that goal (with 3 of them offside) to stand, then people far and wide would start talking and it would become a big story in football and the relevant bodies would become aware that something fishy is going on.
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You'd like to think so, but it's Scotland.

Big furore for a couple of days. Were Rangers cheated? Ally McCoist thinks so, Chris Sutton isn't so sure. But the VAR evidence? Well, it's a tough one, isn't it? Having to make a decision like that with so much pressure on you in those conditions and the baying hordes hurling insults down from the stands. It's easy to see how he may have got it wrong.

An apology from Collum (or maybe not), but ultimately we've still lost the game, still lost the cup, maybe a league title, etc, etc.

Sorry, I remain unconvinced.
 
tazzabear said:
My problem with VAR is how far back its going.
I couldn’t think how to put this so bear with me.
Only the phase of play leading up to the incident being checked should be investigated.
Not that there was a foul on the halfway line two minutes or six passes ago.
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It should go back to when that cheating twunt Aitken took that throw in!
 
Bowery Boy said:
VAR isn't the issue, it's how they have implemented it. It is much better on the continent.
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This I would dispute. Recently saw a game with sporting Lisbon. Lisbon player got a red card,then that changed and came back on. The game was held up for quite a bit and nobody was any the wiser.

It's still ruining the flow of the game and considering that football is all about goals, it sure as hell seems to be going out of it's way to find a way of disallowing them.

Still the same in other leagues,its taking away the enjoyment of the punters who actually go to games and for me,they should always be the first consideration,not the armchair fans
 
Bowery Boy said:
Uch let's just go with the status quo then, that's serving us well.
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Every team gets shite decisions against them in every league in the world
The standard of officiating in Europe has been just as bad as it has in Scotland

VAR is a farce. The fans who’s countries have it fucking hate it as well
 
There was nothing controversial about the goal it was clearly offside.The only controversial thing about it was the lines man not flagging for offside.
 
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dt17 said:
Right now they can make terrible calls and get away with it because it's 'human error'.

If a ref / VAR official viewed their goal the other day and allowed it to stand we'd have every right to call them cheats. Quite simply, they couldn't get away with it anymore.
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We have every right to call them cheats now. Without the backing of our bigoted msm it makes no difference. Sorry to disagree as usually I'm on your side.
 
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