Hand ball in the box

Candeias wont be giving any penalties away, his hands are always behind his back when he is defending!
 
strathavenbear said:
How long before Messi and the likes are aiming for a defenders hand when they are in the box?
A penalty is going to be given more often than not
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Just as teams work on diving they will now work on hitting an opponent's hands when in the penalty area. It's win at all costs now and we should be doing this.
 
Earl of Leven said:
No penalty unless deliberate for me.

It's ludicrous that kicking ball off an arm is a penalty. Volley ball off someone from 3 yarda is a penalty. Not changing direction of ball as it skims off hand is a penalty.

No way, utter nonsense.
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Defining “deliberate” is the problem, is it not?
Would your “deliberate” mean your hand/arm would have to move towards and play the ball?
That’d be my definition of “deliberate”.
 
tazzabear said:
Defining “deliberate” is the problem, is it not?
Would your “deliberate” mean your hand/arm would have to move towards and play the ball?
That’d be my definition of “deliberate”.
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Exactly, is should be the good old hand to ball and not ball to hand.
 
tazzabear said:
Defining “deliberate” is the problem, is it not?
Would your “deliberate” mean your hand/arm would have to move towards and play the ball?
That’d be my definition of “deliberate”.
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Yes. The original idea was to clearly separate rugby and football. The idea was never any handball.

I've never really struggled with working out when a player cheats and when he just can't get out of the way.
 
Earl of Leven said:
Yes. The original idea was to clearly separate rugby and football. The idea was never any handball.

I've never really struggled with working out when a player cheats and when he just can't get out of the way.
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I don’t disagree too much but there has to be a penalty* against a player who is spreading his body and making it easier to hit his arm with the ball.
More so if and when he either gains control of the ball or denies a goal.

Edit: *you'll understand what I mean by penalty here?
 
Liverpools penalty against Spurs was a disgrace & my English team is Liverpool. Liverpool player aimed it at the Spurs players hand/arm with no Liverpool player in the box so to me it was obvious he went for a penalty.
 
Earl of Leven said:
Yes. The original idea was to clearly separate rugby and football. The idea was never any handball.

I've never really struggled with working out when a player cheats and when he just can't get out of the way.
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That’s my interpretation too.

This rule has effectively changed altogether.

Going back to how things were and making handball decisions solely dependent on intent would also reduce the number of controversial decisions.
 
UlsterScotGer said:
I'd go the other way, if it hits your hand, it's a pen. The whole grey area of 'intent' and 'unnatural positions' is the problem, because it's basically asking the ref to make a call on what a player is thinking, rather than what he's actually done.
My way, yes you'll end up with unfortunate decisions, but at least everyone knows where they stand and the referee only has to decide if it's hit a hand or not.
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I lean towards something like this. The whole "deliberate" thing is ridiculous and doesn't apply anywhere else, most fouls aren't deliberate, someone goes for the ball and fouls the player, the fact it wasn't deliberate makes no difference and it shouldn't make a difference for a handball.

I would personally make it that if the arm/hand is tight against the body then no penalty but if the arm is out at all then its a penalty because the arm has stopped the ball reaching its destination.
 
My opinion on how this will go is this, if a winger gets to the edge of the box, defender facing him up is inside it & there's no one in the box to cross it to, just chip it up off the deck and see if you can hit the defender's hand.

Loads and loads of penalties next season for this stuff.

Players will deliberately try to hit the hands of defenders, doesn't need to be hard or a genuine attempt at a cross if I understand the wording correctly, just as long as it hits the arm or hand.

I hope our players are thinking about this and how to work it to our advantage.

Crazy rule change.

Should be a FK if it's a cross, pen if it's a shot that's blocked using the hand, anything else is just daft.
 
FettercairnLoyal said:
I lean towards something like this. The whole "deliberate" thing is ridiculous and doesn't apply anywhere else, most fouls aren't deliberate, someone goes for the ball and fouls the player, the fact it wasn't deliberate makes no difference and it shouldn't make a difference for a handball.

I would personally make it that if the arm/hand is tight against the body then no penalty but if the arm is out at all then its a penalty because the arm has stopped the ball reaching its destination.
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Then the game degenerates into players looking for fouls and penalties rather than on hitting accurate passes and crosses.
 
Vamos_buffalo said:
That’s my take on it aswell. Handball it’s a penalty, that way there will be no debating as to whether it was deliberate or not
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The players are so skilful they will aim at hands. That's why Ivanovic at Chelsea always approached a winger with his hands behind his back.
 
UlsterScotGer said:
I'd go the other way, if it hits your hand, it's a pen. The whole grey area of 'intent' and 'unnatural positions' is the problem, because it's basically asking the ref to make a call on what a player is thinking, rather than what he's actually done.
My way, yes you'll end up with unfortunate decisions, but at least everyone knows where they stand and the referee only has to decide if it's hit a hand or not.
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What if someone aims to the kick the ball at your hand?
 
Some refs are cnuts and some are just shite but iv always been happy enough to go with their shout. Aye sometimes I moan about it but I was moaning about this VAR nonsense in the Portugal game during the week.

It's a simple game. We should keep it that way.
 
The worst part of the penalty given in the Scotland game is that the referee wasn't giving anything. VAR shouldn't be giving decisions.
 
My grandson was playing a match this morning when the ball hit a kid's knee and onto his arm. The referee gave a penelty kick. The kid's dad was at the side of the pitch and screamed that it was never a penalty in a million years. He was wearing a Liverpool top. All the other spectators laughed at him. He did not understand what they were laughing at.
 
I know it's the womens, but they play to the same rules. The penalties so far for hand ball have been ridiculous. I reckon this rule will be changed again at the end of the season.
 
It's utterly preposterous to try and make out that it is natural for defenders to do their defending and all their moving around that that entails with their arms firmly br their sides at all times.
 
If it hits a players hand pen and yellow. If it hits a players hand and blocks a goal pen and red.

Edit - how I’d have it. Keep it straight and simple.
 
SDF said:
That was an absolutely farcical decision in the Scotland game.

Never a penalty in a million years
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Didn't you think the penalty in the CL Final was correct, despite it hitting his chest initialy?

The new directive for hand ball is crazy. As has been stated previously it will become a tactic to aim for hands when playing the ball in to the box.
 
The rule will be an utter farce.
The ball yesterday hit the girls arm. So it must be hand or arm. What happens at a free kick , if you jump, hands behind your back and the ball strikes your upper arm?
Is hands behind your back a natural position?
In the CL final, the ball strikes the guys upper arm. It was striking him there whether or not his arm was raised. Watching the replays, I find it difficult to say with any certainty that the ball strikes him a second time.
 
If im reading this correctly then along with the outrageous amount of red cards we pick up im guessing next season will also see us concede a hell of a lot of soft penalties.

I doubt we will benefit much from the ball bouncing up and hitting a defenders arm our refs will just ignore it when Rangers need a decision.

It might have been the right decision as some have said but that penalty against the scottish burds was totally unfair. Its daft.
 
Papasmurf said:
Probably one of the most confusing and controversial rules in the game. Surely there it’s about time they completely simplify it?

If you use your hand to stop a goal, it’s a red card and a pen.

Anything else is a direct free kick.

99% of hand balls in the box are the result of things like crosses, deflections etc. I’ve always thought getting a penalty for most of the hand balls they are given for are way too harsh and not reflective of what would have happened should the hand ball not have happened. As in, not a great goal scoring chance.

Surely a simple rule like this stops any nonsense?

Obviously not talking about hand balls you can’t get away from.
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Agree generally except I think it should be an indirect free kick for accidental handball and penalty for deliberate hand ball and stopping a shot which is going on target.

These recent penalties are an utter nonsense, ruining good games like the champions league final and England v Scotland yesterday. VAR means its harder to use common sense for rules like this.
 
UlsterScotGer said:
I'd go the other way, if it hits your hand, it's a pen. The whole grey area of 'intent' and 'unnatural positions' is the problem, because it's basically asking the ref to make a call on what a player is thinking, rather than what he's actually done.
My way, yes you'll end up with unfortunate decisions, but at least everyone knows where they stand and the referee only has to decide if it's hit a hand or not.
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In that scenario you’re going to have teams training their attacking players to aim the ball for the opponents arm, rather than pass or shoot. It will statistically yield a better return to aim for the arm than your own player in a congested situation. It totally misaligns the incentives of the attacking team and will ruin the game.

That’s probably already started with the new rule change. Ridiculous decisions in the CL final and the women’s game yesterday.
 
For decades throughout the history of football the law is it is a foul if it is hand to ball. I don't see any reason for changing it. The pens you get now are embarrassing, like Man Utd's v PSG and England wifies v Scotland.
 
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I hate it, completely ruining numerous games nowadays, with constant analysis about arms being in an unnatural position. I wouldn't give about 90% of these penalties that are given, would only give one if it was a deliberate hand/arm ball stopping it go over the line. As far as suggestions about every ball hitting an arm/hand a penalty should be given what a farce that would be probably end up with scores of 15/14 with nobody really interested in playing and getting crosses in the box just deliberately aiming at hands and arms all game.
 
Can anybody saying it should only be for deliberate handball, please explain what they mean by deliberate and give an example?
 
TN8 said:
Can anybody saying it should only be for deliberate handball, please explain what they mean by deliberate and give an example?
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Sticking hand out to change direction of flight of the ball. Not that hard is it?
 
It's Michael Stewart's biomechanics.
It's actually un-natural to have your hands behind your back going in for a challenge. To keep your balance your arms have to counter your other side / lower half. The problem comes when players don't move their hands out the way when the ball is moving in that direction. I'm sure there will be penalties awarded when it is obvious the player was doing their best to prevent the ball striking an arm. And as Scotland won't have VAR let's guess which tean benefits most from dodgy decisions.
 
In the woman's game the English players didn't even ask for a penalty, it was the VAR mob that alerted the ref, that shouldn't happen, if the ref asks or a team protests then fair enough, but let the ref and other officials call it as they see it.
 
Natural position and distance from the ball to hand/arm have to be taken into consideration. if that wasnt taken into consideration we will likley see players try to kick the ball off players hands/arms in areas which wouldnt usually pose an immediate danger resulting in penalties, particularly in the last minutes of games when teams going for a winning goal or equaliser
 
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