He had "wealth off the radar".

[jackstar]

I don't believe for one moment that Murray was taken in. Murray knew exactly what he was doing. He was under pressure to sell and he needed a deal. I doubt he really cared who he was selling to so long as he got the money. Murray was always about Murray. Rangers were a distant second to his ego.

As to the SFA, they were just incompetent and they still are.

Apart from the 5 million he spent to buy the club,you wonder if he ever did put
any more of his own money into the club. It's him that duped the supporters and not him. How they all walked free still does me in.

 

[Le Big Bear Bum]

I’m surprised that this has been overlooked in favour of the Whyte=Cun.t discussion.

This is absolute dynamite.

Never have we seen through papers or internet a single article pointing to him as a total fraud.
Yet here is Glasgows’ evening newspaper saying it ran a report of him fucking off with millions of pounds of debt in his wake.

That’s the equivalent of the London Evening Standard having an expose on Abramovich prior to Chelsea but it being airbrushed from history with no-one batting an eyelid.

Who wrote the article? Why was a further one not published around the time when he was to be anointed as a billionaire owner?
That’s a journalists job.

Why?

I can see why someone would construe that article in the same way you have.

It could also be construed as the Evening Times investigation being more recent (present-day even) and this was when they found out all the other info.

I could be wrong but the latter was the one I assumed when I read it.

 

[Hillheadbear]

Yep, and that is why Murray got to cherry pick his assets and wander off into the sunset an even wealthier man. You will be saying next that Lloyds never let him do that. If that is the next option, take a wee look at what the Rangers debt and liability was compared to the rest of the Murray group. Lloyds certainly didn't want their money, just some of it.

The way the cards fell tells a different tale to you.

Murray had already ring-fenced his personal wealth. MI wasn't worth anything and Rangers were the only sellable asset in the short term. In the conditions at that time, Lloyds wanted any money they could get.

Lloyds couldn't touch his personal wealth. Just because you own shares in a business, even all the shares, does not mean your personal assets are up for grabs unless you have pledged them as a guarantee or collateral.

The way the cards fell was terrible for us. But the idea that this was some kind of conspiracy by individuals at Lloyds is far fetched. As I said, big companies don't work that way (and I have lots of experience of very big companies). They take business decisions and there is very little emotion in those decisions. I had clients write of errors of over $130 million with the simple words "book it".

 

[Greebo]

I don't like Jackson but I don't believe he was involved in any sort of plot or anything like that, if that's what anyone's suggesting. It's just that he deals in sensationalism and bullshit to try to sell papers or get hits.

Which led the Rangers support to believe that he was a billionaire who would put shed loads of money into the club.

He was fundamental in selling Whyte to the support, and facilitating the sale to him.

 

[Hillheadbear]

Apart from the 5 million he spent to buy the club,you wonder if he ever did put
any more of his own money into the club. It's him that duped the supporters and not him. How they all walked free still does me in.

His business did put money in but I don't think that was his personal wealth. It probably came from his pal at HBOS.

Dave King put in real money. £20 million as I remember it. And he lost every penny. He still came back in with the three Bears to wrest control from the Spivs.

 

[Tim Hunter]

We were sold because we could be. The rest of MI was underwater. The value of his commercial property had collapsed and there were no buyers out there. Rangers was the only asset he had which could be realised.

Rangers were not an asset the HMRC/EBT situation meant that they were possibly a £100m+ liability.
Realistically Rangers only became an asset after an administration event. This situation was a honey pot for the likes of Green and Whyte.

 

[Rangerscoverboy]

Murray's companies were almost entirely being controlled by Lloyds bank at that time!

And who was on the board of Lloyd's at the time?

 

[Hillheadbear]

Rangers were not an asset the HMRC/EBT situation meant that they were possibly a £100m+ liability.
Realistically Rangers only became an asset after an administration event. This situation was a honey pot for the likes of Green and Whyte.

You make a good point. But the fact remains that MIH/Lloyds took Rangers debt off the books and the EBT risk at the same time. So that was a big win for them.

 

[Hillheadbear]

And who was on the board of Lloyd's at the time?

Boards of big companies don't make operational decisions and the sale of Rangers, given the overall turnover of Lloyds, was barely a rounding error. I very much doubt that it hit their radar.

 

[Northampton_Loyalist]

You make a good point. But the fact remains that MIH/Lloyds took Rangers debt off the books and the EBT risk at the same time. So that was a big win for them.

Financially and business wise, a far bigger win would have been administration, retaining the business and the captive market thereafter.

 

[Rangerscoverboy]

Boards of big companies don't make operational decisions and the sale of Rangers, given the overall turnover of Lloyds, was barely a rounding error. I very much doubt that it hit their radar.

No you're right but if someone wanted to try force the issue, they were in a position to do just that.

The whole thing for me was a stitch up. Even down to the shambles with HMRC.

A debt of £18m actively being reduced.

Fast forward a year and they write off £12m Kilmarnock owed.

 

[Ciro]

I have said this many times, Keith Jackson played a pivotal role in what happened. He sold Whyte to the Rangers support.

Why people ever defend him astonishes me.

And David Murray probably hand fed Jackson the line and told him to print it. He probably helped him write the story.

 

[tazzabear]

he got near it because another bullshitting charlatan let him near it

With no protection from the protectors of our game,

 

[Barrymoped]

I just tend to think that Murray would have sold it to anyone just to get away from the mess he had made of our club.

He spent money like there was no tomorrow while most of us lapped it up but a few fans started to ask questions.

This is exactly right, he was totally fecked and Lloyd’s bank allowed him to keep his metals business if he sold off other assets including us, he would have sold to anyone who could give Lloyd’s their £18million or whatever it was.

Whyte on the other hand was in cohoots with Green and the guy from Duff and Phelps to deliberately put us into Admin and buy us back for buttons to make a fortune. Unfortunately for us they succeeded and left us in utter ruins, we are still picking up the pieces now with the good guys finally back in charge.

 

[Barrymoped]

David Murray not daft to suggest he got done over by Whyte doesn't seem possible to me.

It wasn’t. Donald Findlay proved as much in court, he proved through phone and text records that Murray knew about Whytes plan to use Ticketus to pay the cash and remained on friendly terms with him afterwards

 

[GEODGC]

I agree in part. He didn’t care but to suggest he would know everyone in business because of his connections is folly.

He wanted out and didn’t care what Whyte might represent.

Whyte is a piece of shit of the highest order.

You are putting words in my mouth there. I never suggested Murray would ‘know everyone in business’. That would just be silly. As soon as Whytes name was mentioned to him Murray would have at least made a few phone calls to find out his background, business connections etc. Christ, he even done this before meeting David Edgar when he was chairman of the RST.

 

[nemessis]

Don't know why Whyte hasn't had the shit hammered out of him yet but some day it will happen.

 

[Leedsbear75]

I agree 100%. The timing, with the independence referendum on the agenda, was not a coincidence!

Green

Whyte

Celik

 

[QueensferryCR3Bear]

The only concern of Murray was to move the club and it's debt on and he sold the club to the first person who had a lawyer's letter saying they could buy the club and clear the debt. There would be no due diligence beyond that.

 

[Rangerista]

I’m surprised that this has been overlooked in favour of the Whyte=Cun.t discussion.

This is absolute dynamite.

Never have we seen through papers or internet a single article pointing to him as a total fraud.
Yet here is Glasgows’ evening newspaper saying it ran a report of him fucking off with millions of pounds of debt in his wake.

That’s the equivalent of the London Evening Standard having an expose on Abramovich prior to Chelsea but it being airbrushed from history with no-one batting an eyelid.

Who wrote the article? Why was a further one not published around the time when he was to be anointed as a billionaire owner?
That’s a journalists job.

Why?

When I started the thread it was because I wasn't aware that the ET had published a story 20 years ago about this fraudster. I can understand that his subsequent relationship with Murray broadens the debate. But I'm more intrigued as to why, given what at the time must have been a relatively high profile case, he can breeze back into public life 12 years later and a collective amnesia ensues. Hiding in plain sight sums it up, aided by an astonishing lack of collective curiosity.

 

[Superrangers]

You are putting words in my mouth there. I never suggested Murray would ‘know everyone in business’. That would just be silly. As soon as Whytes name was mentioned to him Murray would have at least made a few phone calls to find out his background, business connections etc. Christ, he even done this before meeting David Edgar when he was chairman of the RST.

Fair enough and Murray is a cuunt but I think by the time Shyte came along, it didn’t matter. Lloyds had him by the balls and we were being sold, irrespective the buyer or their plans.

 

[My boy Blu]

I have said this many times, Keith Jackson played a pivotal role in what happened. He sold Whyte to the Rangers support.

Why people ever defend him astonishes me.

I've never seen or heard one person defend him. He's a tadger tugging,corn beef faced prick but I don't think he was going out his way to %^*& us.

The blame lies square at Murray's feet.

 

[Taki]

When I started the thread it was because I wasn't aware that the ET had published a story 20 years ago about this fraudster. I can understand that his subsequent relationship with Murray broadens the debate. But I'm more intrigued as to why, given what at the time must have been a relatively high profile case, he can breeze back into public life 12 years later and a collective amnesia ensues. Hiding in plain sight sums it up, aided by an astonishing lack of collective curiosity.

Your OP has been lost in the thread but I certainly don’t recall the Evening Times making much of a fuss when Whyte appeared on the scene or revisiting their ‘investigation’ of 20 years ago. I very much doubt they did an investigation at the time and this seems a curious thing to remember this week.

 

[TheAnalogKid]

Murray had already ring-fenced his personal wealth. MI wasn't worth anything and Rangers were the only sellable asset in the short term. In the conditions at that time, Lloyds wanted any money they could get.

Lloyds couldn't touch his personal wealth. Just because you own shares in a business, even all the shares, does not mean your personal assets are up for grabs unless you have pledged them as a guarantee or collateral.

The way the cards fell was terrible for us. But the idea that this was some kind of conspiracy by individuals at Lloyds is far fetched. As I said, big companies don't work that way (and I have lots of experience of very big companies). They take business decisions and there is very little emotion in those decisions. I had clients write of errors of over $130 million with the simple words "book it".

I stopped reading that garbage when you said Rangers were the only saleable asset. .

 

[jexx]

John Reid-The catalyst for everything that's happened to us?