Hearts and Thistle joint statement

Bonnyloyal

Well-Known Member
After three days of detailed and complex submissions, Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle today learned the outcome of our preliminary hearing in the Court of Session, presided over by Lord Clark.
It is important to note that this was only to determine how to proceed.
Lord Clark found in our favour in two motions while we were unsuccessful in one. While denied the opportunity for a public hearing in Court this simply means we now pursue the same outcome in a different forum.
Importantly, we were successful in the motion to get access to a number of documents that will be key to support our case in arbitration.
Both clubs are also pleased to have received a fair hearing and feel it important to point to Lord Clark’s words that: “I do not blame the petitioners for not raising proceedings or seeking arbitration whilst that important and potentially crucial alternative [of reconstruction] was available and was actively being facilitated by the SPFL.”
We promised our supporters that we would fight for them and we shall continue to do so.
Neither club will be making any further comment today.
Lord Clark’s full notes from today’s hearing can be found here: https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/...pdf-docs-for-opinions/2020csoh68.pdf?sfvrsn=0
 
Why were they denied the right for a public court?

Because it's in the articles of membership to which the club's signed up and the judge deemed that he couldn't break that contract lawfully. He also said that although a tribunal has powers to decide on discovery of documents he would help the speed of the process by granting that now. He more or less told them all to get a move on.

One thing he did allude to was that the threat of expulsion or a £1m fine in the articles of membership for going to court may not be lawful but that would require a full hearing to decide. He didn't need to say that. What he's done there is hinted to the governing bodies not to bother trying that on.
 
Judge sees it as a football matter, not a business matter.

I think thats what was said earlier on here. But the whole FF thread on it was confusing

On the contrary, he sees it as a business matter and that's why he's instructed the tribunal to be run by law experts not football people. He made that distinction in his summing up. Its not going to court because a tribunal is a method of dispute resolution in the articles of association
 
Those documents have likely been shredded already.

I can’t help feel they are on a hiding to nothing with Arbitration. Given the SPFL are likely to plough ahead with the new season, it wouldn’t surprise me if their bottle crashed now and they accept some token compensation to drop their case. Having the evidence heard in open court was the only chance to bring down Doncaster and his chums. I’m actually gobsmacked the judge wouldn’t allow this to happen. Maybe they framed their case the wrong way?
 
The interesting thing is going to be what is revealed in the paperwork that is yet to be disclosedz
 
Because it's in the articles of membership to which the club's signed up and the judge deemed that he couldn't break that contract lawfully. He also said that although a tribunal has powers to decide on discovery of documents he would help the speed of the process by granting that now. He more or less told them all to get a move on.

One thing he did allude to was that the threat of expulsion or a £1m fine in the articles of membership for going to court may not be lawful but that would require a full hearing to decide. He didn't need to say that. What he's done there is hinted to the governing bodies not to bother trying that on.
How can this shambolic cabal incorporate an article of membership that a senior judge has today deemed unlawful if
attempted?
 
How can this shambolic cabal incorporate an article of membership that a senior judge has today deemed unlawful if
attempted?

He didn't. We have crossed wires here. He's told them arbitration is in their rules so do that. He's also mentioned the doubts the lawfulness of expulsion or a £1m fine for a club who take the association to court without permission of that associations board.
 
The truth will out.

And not just with this little dispute about a premature ending of a football season.

The SPFL and the SFA and CFC have a lot to fear, their legal advisers also should consider the advice they have been dispensing.
 
He didn't. We have crossed wires here. He's told them arbitration is in their rules so do that. He's also mentioned the doubts the lawfulness of expulsion or a £1m fine for a club who take the association to court without permission of that associations board.
Thats what I'm referring to the article of association of a 1m fine or expulsion which the judge today alluded to being unlawful? If its unlawful why is it in due AoA in the first place?
 
Absolutely no fooking chance are they getting anywhere near emails phone calls etc that crap has well been erased probably paid an expert to cleanse all systems of corruption
My daughter has just been involved in a communications audit, internal, external emails and internet usage, within a number of computers in several offices at a firm. Although initially they couldn't track down what they were particularly looking for, they did note that one computers history had been thoroughly cleaned, usually clean, she called it. she couldn't elaborate further, as there was a deeper investigation.
 
Those documents have likely been shredded already.

I can’t help feel they are on a hiding to nothing with Arbitration. Given the SPFL are likely to plough ahead with the new season, it wouldn’t surprise me if their bottle crashed now and they accept some token compensation to drop their case. Having the evidence heard in open court was the only chance to bring down Doncaster and his chums. I’m actually gobsmacked the judge wouldn’t allow this to happen. Maybe they framed their case the wrong way?

documents? everything would have been done by email
 
Importantly, we were successful in the motion to get access to a number of documents that will be key to support our case in arbitration.

This could be the best part of the ruling. They surely now have to release the dodgy comunications for all to see.
Documents that will have been doctored and altered.
As for the sfa independent arbitration inquiry. It won't be independent,impartial or fair, A committee polluted with hand picked corrupt like minded cohorts is what will be judging this shamble. It's like a criminal getting to pick his own jury.Only one result here. Corrupt scum sfa/spfl celtic.One entity.
 
My daughter has just been involved in a communications audit, internal, external emails and internet usage, within a number of computers in several offices at a firm. Although initially they couldn't track down what they were particularly looking for, they did note that one computers history had been thoroughly cleaned, usually clean, she called it. she couldn't elaborate further, as there was a deeper investigation.
The judge left it open for Hearts/Partick to return to court if they believe the arbitration is flawed. Not having full disclosure, and/or proof of withheld/destroyed evidence, would be grounds for that.

It would be very obvious to someone trained in computer forensics what attempts at removing evidence looks like, however it remains to to be to what depth the judgement today allows that evidence gathering to go to.
 
Documents that will have been doctored and altered.
As for the sfa independent arbitration inquiry. It won't be independent,impartial or fair, A committee polluted with hand picked corrupt like minded cohorts is what will be judging this shamble. It's like a criminal getting to pick his own jury.Only one result here. Corrupt scum sfa/spfl celtic.One entity.

I’m sure Clarke has stipulated that the panel is made up of non footballing people as it’s a legal matter and not footballing, it is also iirc to be made up of one SPFL choice, one petitioners choice and an agreed choice.?
 
I don’t think it’s any surprise that the SPFL opposes the request for recovery of documents. Not surprising, but telling IMO. I don’t think any of us believe that there isn’t material in there that the SPFL would rather avoided scrutiny.
 
Thats what I'm referring to the article of association of a 1m fine or expulsion which the judge today alluded to being unlawful? If its unlawful why is it in due AoA in the first place?

The judge said he doubted it was lawful bit that would be for a full hearing to decide. My feeling is he said this to warn the SPFL that this isn't a route to try and go down. It shouldn't be in the articles if a law lord thinks it's dubious.
 
So what’s the timescale and who drives it? What’s to stop Hearts and Thistle just rejecting everything until the week the season starts, surely as the new season gets nearer without an outcome the situation gets pretty serious?
 
Importantly, we were successful in the motion to get access to a number of documents that will be key to support our case in arbitration.

This could be the best part of the ruling. They surely now have to release the dodgy comunications for all to see.
I think there will be a confidentiality clause attached to their release. However if it helps the clubs win there case I will be happy. We then go for the throats of SPFL Exec with a no confidence motion
 
Absolutely no fooking chance are they getting anywhere near emails phone calls etc that crap has well been erased probably paid an expert to cleanse all systems of corruption
This will hopefully get interesting when either a) they have to disclose more information b) there are gaps and people start to call them out
 
Documents that will have been doctored and altered.
As for the sfa independent arbitration inquiry. It won't be independent,impartial or fair, A committee polluted with hand picked corrupt like minded cohorts is what will be judging this shamble. It's like a criminal getting to pick his own jury.Only one result here. Corrupt scum sfa/spfl celtic.One entity.
You are right. Hearts and Thistle might as well give up now. I don’t understand Clark’s reasoning for denying their day in court. Corruption seems to be endemic throughout this country.
 

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