Hearts and Thistle joint statement

You are right. Hearts and Thistle might as well give up now. I don’t understand Clark’s reasoning for denying their day in court. Corruption seems to be endemic throughout this country.
If you read the full PDF, it reads to me like he had every sympathy for them but was legally bound by law and reading of the regulations of the SFA/SPFL to go for arbitration first. However, and crucially, he did it by setting some terms regards choice of panel and disclosure which will not sit well with Neil and co.

So I don’t understand where you’re coming from.
 
You are right. Hearts and Thistle might as well give up now. I don’t understand Clark’s reasoning for denying their day in court. Corruption seems to be endemic throughout this country.

Give it a rest, a law lord didn't rule against them out of corruption. The club's are bound by the rules of the association. Arbitration is in the rules. That's all that's happened here and if the arbitration is flawed they go back to court.
 
I’m sure Clarke has stipulated that the panel is made up of non footballing people as it’s a legal matter and not footballing, it is also iirc to be made up of one SPFL choice, one petitioners choice and an agreed choice.?
And the agreed choice is yo be a judge with a minimum of 10 years experience
This arbitration panel is basically the same as the independent review that Rangers were proposing and we're going to pay for (saved us a bit of cash)
 
Give it a rest, a law lord didn't rule against them out of corruption. The club's are bound by the rules of the association. Arbitration is in the rules. That's all that's happened here and if the arbitration is flawed they go back to court.
Ok I stand corrected.
 
If you read the full PDF, it reads to me like he had every sympathy for them but was legally bound by law and reading of the regulations of the SFA/SPFL to go for arbitration first. However, and crucially, he did it by setting some terms regards choice of panel and disclosure which will not sit well with Neil and co.

So I don’t understand where you’re coming from.
CTB is correct. Doncaster will be sh.tting himself. Think of the panic he went into to avoid the Rangers independent review. This is basically what he is now facing with no way of avoiding
 
like the way this has been summarised on kickback, not reading the corrrupt media thinkings,


  1. We have to abide by rule 99 for now?
  2. Lord Clark did not like the OoT ra game remark, he refered to that threat
  3. Indeed, the lawfulness of being expelled and a £1m fine is questionable.. sorry Keef?
  4. The timing of the Dundee vote, is in our favour and accepted, That will expose a lie!
  5. DU, RR and CV have had their petition thrown out, and they as put it are OOT RA GEME?
  6. LC has accepted entirely that the media and the public have a right to this being aired in open court, but the law states we have to try arbitration first?
  7. Scots law…If the parties have contracted to arbitrate to arbitration they must go!
  8. SPFL and DU,RR & CR have all stated that arbitration can be concluded before the 1st of August ( I think though we should have argued that the season has already started as our competition have started full time training)
  9. The SFA WILL NOT judge the issue in the arbitration. Well that’s a biggie
  10. The SFA arbitrators is able to require evidence and call witnesses? Doncaster will not like that, nor Nelms?
  11. Mr Moynihan got his arse handed to him on a plate regarding persons with an interest in football….Its a matter for company law. The SPFL are not disciplined in legal proceedings…ouch!
  12. Borman and Moynihan also got their arse felt over blaming us for delays in this matter as we were seeking reconstruction and it WAS being facilitated by the SPFL….get in!
  13. We get to see ALL documentation, the SPFL and DU were fiercely opposed to this? I wonder why?
  14. 50/50 decision here the others get to SIST the procedings but and it’s a huge BUT: If for any reason, difficulties arise with whether the arbitration is able to deal with the issues in the time available and the parties change their minds and wish the court to deal with, time will be made available for that to happen.
That last statement is a warning and NOT to us
 
If the news coming out about the dundee vote actually being received at 16:48 is correct then theres no way back from there for the SPFL.
 
Absolutely no fooking chance are they getting anywhere near emails phone calls etc that crap has well been erased probably paid an expert to cleanse all systems of corruption
Absolutely this, there will be no snail trail, that "evidence" will be long gone.
 
If the news coming out about the dundee vote actually being received at 16:48 is correct then theres no way back from there for the SPFL.

I agree, it should be disbanded. A new clean non infiltrated set up should be installed away from the dirty hands of Liewell and the Filth.
 
After three days of detailed and complex submissions, Heart of Midlothian and Partick Thistle today learned the outcome of our preliminary hearing in the Court of Session, presided over by Lord Clark.
It is important to note that this was only to determine how to proceed.
Lord Clark found in our favour in two motions while we were unsuccessful in one. While denied the opportunity for a public hearing in Court this simply means we now pursue the same outcome in a different forum.
Importantly, we were successful in the motion to get access to a number of documents that will be key to support our case in arbitration.
Both clubs are also pleased to have received a fair hearing and feel it important to point to Lord Clark’s words that: “I do not blame the petitioners for not raising proceedings or seeking arbitration whilst that important and potentially crucial alternative [of reconstruction] was available and was actively being facilitated by the SPFL.”
We promised our supporters that we would fight for them and we shall continue to do so.
Neither club will be making any further comment today.
Lord Clark’s full notes from today’s hearing can be found here: https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/...pdf-docs-for-opinions/2020csoh68.pdf?sfvrsn=0
Hopefully hearts and Partick destroy the spfl.
 
If the news coming out about the dundee vote actually being received at 16:48 is correct then theres no way back from there for the SPFL.

Received in the sense that it landed in their server at that time. That was never in dispute. Let's see who if anyone opened it, moved it or buried it. I think regardless of all that the vote stands as a no vote as this is how it was intended and should never have been allowed to be changed. Who read it to me is useful to know but not the crux of the matter.
 
Who is DU in point 13 above Dundee United?
What have they got to hide?
To me it’s Dundee’s vote and the conversations that took place whilst the vote changed is the interesting part.
 
It sounds like the judge agreed with Hearts and Thistle but by law had to refer the case to SFA arbitration due to the SPFL/SFA articles/rules.

I’d love to be a fly on the wall in SPFL HQ right now. They will be shitting themselves.

A forensic audit of the emails should be able to tell us exactly when the Dundee vote was sent, received and read. The SPFL QC already admitted in court that it was received at 4.48pm.

I’ve been saying it for a while but I think the Dundee vote will be declared unlawful. The original motion to end the season shouldn’t have carried and the league will be declared null and void by the courts.
 
Absolutely this, there will be no snail trail, that "evidence" will be long gone.

As others have said, if e-mails/texts received by SPFL don't tally with those sent by other parties, or there are clear gaps in correspondence trails, that is going to create more problems for the SPFL than it solves. If Hearts and Patrick are not satisfied with what's disclosed, it sounds like returning to court is an option.

(Caveat: I'm no legal eagle, so could have that wrong. But I do think this will be a cause for concern for the SPFL).
 
Ah well this will keep the pre-season interesting. Doesn't look like it will have any sort of effect on the Premiership though.
 
If you read the full PDF, it reads to me like he had every sympathy for them but was legally bound by law and reading of the regulations of the SFA/SPFL to go for arbitration first. However, and crucially, he did it by setting some terms regards choice of panel and disclosure which will not sit well with Neil and co.

So I don’t understand where you’re coming from.

That’s exactly it,the only thing he disagreed with was their want to bypass the SFA procedures, but acknowledged they did this as they didn’t want to face football penalties for taking the Governing body to court,but also said they weren’t doing so by using the arbitration route so had nothing to worry about in that regard.
 
Importantly, we were successful in the motion to get access to a number of documents that will be key to support our case in arbitration.

This could be the best part of the ruling. They surely now have to release the dodgy comunications for all to see.
I hope they are available and not like the minutes of the meetings that were supposedly never done, what a shameful outfit they are, non professional organisations are better run than the SPFL.
 
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Seems mental that if the Dundee vote had just stood we could be 3 games away from a complete season by now. Celtic, Dundee Utd, and Cove Rangers would all be actual champions, Hearts and Stranraer would still be going down and there would be a little bit of excitement for league one champions and championship relegation.

We wouldn't have flushed millions down the toilet to Sky and BT, probably millions more to lawyers and what sponsor is going to touch our league now given the amount of corruption that will likely be exposed by an independent investigation.

The game in Scotland is at an all time low. Time for the SPFL to be scrapped.
 
You are right. Hearts and Thistle might as well give up now. I don’t understand Clark’s reasoning for denying their day in court. Corruption seems to be endemic throughout this country.
Huh? I mean I know %^*& all about law but from what I can gather lord Clark seemed super fair about it all. He was never going to side with party all the way IMO, but he's definitely given more to the hearts and thistle side.
 
If the news coming out about the dundee vote actually being received at 16:48 is correct then theres no way back from there for the SPFL.
I don't think there is an argument from the SPFL that the vote was received at 16:48. They say that it was in quarantine and was not retrieved until about 8pm by which time they were told by Dundee to ignore the vote. Dundee changed their vote and the SPFL say they were within their right to do so.

Hearts/PT argue that by submitting a No vote at 16:48pm, that vote was binding and the resolution failed.

To me, everything hinges on the Dundee vote.

Now, if the SPFL actually received and READ the email (or purposely put it into quarantine) at 16:48pm, that would be huge and likely criminal.
 
We promised our supporters that we would fight for them and we shall continue to do so.

Also, Hearts/Partick happy to link Lord Clark's full judgement. Have the SPFL been happy to do so?
 
You can almost guarantee that some of the documents requested by Hearts/Partick will be lost, misplaced, not documented, stolen, unreadable, destroyed, unavailable, any of the above and more. The phone and or email records will almost certainly have suffered the same fate. I just hope the evidence they have requested is wide and varied enough to shine a light on the corruption.
It'll be a classic case of the dog ate my homework and therefore I am unable to present it.
 
You can almost guarantee that some of the documents requested by Hearts/Partick will be lost, misplaced, not documented, stolen, unreadable, destroyed, unavailable, any of the above and more. The phone and or email records will almost certainly have suffered the same fate. I just hope the evidence they have requested is wide and varied enough to shine a light on the corruption.
It'll be a classic case of the dog ate my homework and therefore I am unable to present it.
Email records can be found, deleted or not.

If the computer has been wiped, then that's dodgy.

As for the dundee email. So everybody just sat back at 1 min past 5 and wondered what happened to Dundees vote. Never got in touch with anyone at dundee when the whole country was waiting and then waited about 3 hours and said, oh look we've found it, next to the squirrel.

Clyde and banana boat come to mind, if I'm still allowed to say that.
 
Email records can be found, deleted or not.

If the computer has been wiped, then that's dodgy.

As for the dundee email. So everybody just sat back at 1 min past 5 and wondered what happened to Dundees vote. Never got in touch with anyone at dundee when the whole country was waiting and then waited about 3 hours and said, oh look we've found it, next to the squirrel.

Clyde and banana boat come to mind, if I'm still allowed to say that.
Yup totally agree, it stinks but unless there is evidence that the email was opened and read then what chance have we got.
 
The fact the SPFL did not want the documents to be made available to Hearts/ PT tells you everything you need to know. They did not want an independent investigation but that is what they are going to get. Can’t see Doncaster and McKenzie desperate enough to remove / delete evidence. Ramifications for doing so are huge. A senior QC type will quickly cut through Doncaster’s legal babble that he usually employs on Radio Shortbread.

Hopefully Doncaster and McKenzie don’t survive this, anything else is a bonus for me. But god knows what happens if (big if) Dundee’s original vote stands!
 
Received in the sense that it landed in their server at that time. That was never in dispute. Let's see who if anyone opened it, moved it or buried it. I think regardless of all that the vote stands as a no vote as this is how it was intended and should never have been allowed to be changed. Who read it to me is useful to know but not the crux of the matter.

Thats what i wasn't sure of, there is no mention of the spam folder etc...it will be good to get to the truth
 
I don't think there is an argument from the SPFL that the vote was received at 16:48. They say that it was in quarantine and was not retrieved until about 8pm by which time they were told by Dundee to ignore the vote. Dundee changed their vote and the SPFL say they were within their right to do so.

Hearts/PT argue that by submitting a No vote at 16:48pm, that vote was binding and the resolution failed.

To me, everything hinges on the Dundee vote.

Now, if the SPFL actually received and READ the email (or purposely put it into quarantine) at 16:48pm, that would be huge and likely criminal.

I think it's above, but also Dundee publicly stated that (a quote from JN in the Dundee statement)

"If what we achieved in our pause was presented by the SPFL in the first instance we would have voted in favour of the proposal."

That in itself cancels the whole vote process.

Then you add on top the mis information about liability, and the other motions put towards to provide funds another way to give more time being cast aside, the whole process is massively compromised.

Hearts should be all over these facts. It's a good as an independent inquiry now and we should be supporting it. Hopefully our dossier does provide some value in the end.
 
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