bearspakora
Well-Known Member
Hopefully, the SPFL being named as a limited company will swing it away from arbitration.
It would never be admitted but the judge just might at some point be trying to give some direction to the argument - ie tell me why these corrupt, lying vermin cannot be trusted to arbitrate in a fair and even handed manner? Most do not live in a social knowledge bubble despite what we might think.I got the impression the judge was asking why Arbitration was not an option for the SFA.
I suppose that is the point, they try and press looking for weakness in their arguement.
I‘ve not heard anything so far that indicates the outcome although I have only heard bits and pieces
Heart of Midlothian/Partick Thistle v SPFL: Day 2
David Thomson QC – Hearts/Partick
The effect of Section of 2010 Arbitration Act – the language is clear, unambiguous and speaks for itself.
The court does not have a discretion to overlook this language. This seems to be at odds with the position in England and is based on different historical context.
Feels that the motion is ill-conceived and that the right to seek a sist depends on the applicant doing neither of the actions stated in 10(1d). To retain the right to seek a sist the respondents must not place substantive answers.
Thomson disputed Borland’s argument that they had to give a substantive answer. There is no basis that this could be considered to be a 2-sided dispute.
Motions for interim order argued daily without defences being lodged.
Therefore argues that the right to seek arbitration has been lost.
Any referral to arbitration would lead to valuable time being lost and more importantly the matters raised are of significant public interest and concern.
Reference is made to the extraordinary communication made to clubs last week telling them that it was necessary for them to support the SPFL in order to see the papers.
Lord Clark highlights that the email from Dundee was received at 4:48pm on the day on question. Does this help in speeding things up.?
DT refers to the debacle of the Dundee vote and the public interest in clearing this up.
We are entitled to discover the truth of what happened in that episode.
Lord Clark: Will evidence, afadavits and witness statements be required? Will witnesses be required to be led.
DT – the focus of the petitioners is likely to be on documentary evidence, but cant say for certain there would be no need for cross-examination… particularly the conversations between John Nelms and Neil Doncaster. There would also be an evidence requirement for any compensation demand.
Lord Clark: A requirement for evidence and limited cross-examination.
DT – Submission 2
No valid arbitration clause is in play. The starting point in any consideration should be the SPFL rules and these are not clear or definitive about arbitration
Reliance about SFA disciplinary rule 78 by Moynihan to suggest agreement to arbitration process does no such thing.
In the context of the present petition the arbitration provision of article 99 has not been incorporated.
Lord Clark – Is there a members agreement amongst clubs to resolve disputes via arbitration.
DT – Yes but only under article 99 and this petition is brought as shareholders within the SPFL Ltd. This why this is not a football dispute.
Temporary break in proceedings due to Broaband Issues – court not in session
The Judge will be trying to find out why Hearts and Partick Thistle feel the SFA shouldn't arbitrate on this matter. That could get an interesting response hopefullywe just stay on the line and it'll pick back up for us though
Does anyone else feel the judge was putting him on the spot about why arbitration shouldnt be used?
Can you let us know where to get these types of update?
Are you listening to the case or George Bowie.
Can you let us know where to get these types of update?
It would never be admitted but the judge just might at some point be trying to give some direction to the argument - ie tell me why these corrupt, lying vermin cannot be trusted to arbitrate in a fair and even handed manner? Most do not live in a social knowledge bubble despite what we might think.
Admitted by the SPFL QC yesterday.So is it now confirmed the Dundee email was received?
This me likey.Kickback View:
David Thomson has been excellent today, interesting that Lord Clark has started asking about evidence requirements for full trial, specifically cross-examination of Doncaster and Nelms.
The first one or tne second though?Admitted by the SPFL QC yesterday.
I believe it explicitly states social media cant be used to discuss proceedings mate. Of course im not sure if there will be some that will do so anyway.
Somebody once told me that the average High Court Judge could tell you everything that Orpheus did in the underworld, but very little about the world today!It would never be admitted but the judge just might at some point be trying to give some direction to the argument - ie tell me why these corrupt, lying vermin cannot be trusted to arbitrate in a fair and even handed manner? Most do not live in a social knowledge bubble despite what we might think.
Think it was the Dundee Utd and others QC?The first one or tne second though?
what happened. Getting excited on Hearts forums.
Juts saying spfl scored an own goal. What they mean I don't know?
That may well be the case but on that thread they were having banter about it being an actual match thread they are following. I.e. earlier they said VAR was being used. So have you picked this up correctly?what happened. Getting excited on Hearts forums.
Juts saying spfl scored an own goal. What they mean I don't know?
cheersHearts QC said it should be dealt with in Court and some of the Jambos thought it was the Judge that said it.
I was in the high court in Edinbrugh being representated by an eminent QC, and he told me bluntly, judges are mostly, but not all, monied, landed gentry or titled. Their views are guided by their backgrounds and upbringing, especially in civil cases were large corporations in banking, insurance are sued by your average Joe. I had got a Judge that came through the ranks from humble beginnings and I was lucky we had him sitting.Somebody once told me that the average High Court Judge could tell you everything that Orpheus did in the underworld, but very little about the world today!
I meant the first Dundee mail or the second oneThink it was the Dundee Utd and others QC?
Haha sorry, first one I thought?I meant the first Dundee mail or the second one
This won't conclude today by the sound of it.
There is a Part 3 still to be heard and no-one has spoken on it yet.
Likely a continuation tomorrow and perhaps nothing decide until Monday (coincidentally Fixture List day!)
Jeez this is just to see id it goes to court...how longs the actual case gonnae take?Judge calling it a day. Back tomorrow at 10am
How did it end today?Judge calling it a day. Back tomorrow at 10am
Judge calling it a day. Back tomorrow at 10am
He was asking Moynihan for papers on article ten whatever that was. Judge also pointed out that the bad guys lawyer was arguing about the SFA articles and rules regarding arbitration. He said it was an SPFL rules dispute, not the SFA'S. Bad lawyer was quoting SFA rules all the time but Judge asked about the SPFL. Guess he needs to find out from the paperwork that Hearts put in Exactly what argument was put forward regarding article 10?How did it end today?
He is on an hourly rate' it's like a painter in your hoose ripping the pish out of itJudge calling it a day. Back tomorrow at 10am
He is on an hourly rate' it's like a painter in your hoose ripping the pish out of it
You just know these fuckers at the SPFL will get away with their corrupt ways.
He is on an hourly rate' it's like a painter in your hoose ripping the pish out of it
I hate being the pessimist, but like most people the Judge probably equates sporting disputes being left to sporting associations to sort out amongst themselves and nothing to do with the judicial system. Unless Hearts strongly got across the corruption within Scottish officialdom, they are goosed.
Aw I am all emulsional now ***Lawyers should finish putting their points forward tomorrow, but I doubt we will get a result. The Judge is likely to 'gloss over' the evidence at the weekend.
I'll get my (under) coat.
I don't think Lord Clarke liked the 'oot the gemme', quote one bit.
Thank for the summary. Reading snippets sounds like Hearts could be ahead but never trust those slippery twatsHe was asking Moynihan for papers on article ten whatever that was. Judge also pointed out that the bad guys lawyer was arguing about the SFA articles and rules regarding arbitration. He said it was an SPFL rules dispute, not the SFA'S. Bad lawyer was quoting SFA rules all the time but Judge asked about the SPFL. Guess he needs to find out from the paperwork that Hearts put in Exactly what argument was put forward regarding article 10?
That's what I made of it. Bad guy lawyer was so boring to listen to but his main point was Hearts and Thistle cannot go for arbitration as they are a member of the spfl and should abide by the rules of the spfl and sfa. .
Also threatened (in lawyer speak) that other member clubs can boot them out of the spfl.