How come Davie Cooper only got very few caps for Scotland?
- Thread starter No Surrender
- Start date
During John Greigs reign Cooper wasnt always a first pick in the Rangers side, never mind Scotland.
Krissie
Well-Known Member
John Greig testimonial v Scotland, BR controlled the midfield that day.
coolatballet
Well-Known Member
If you are old enough to remember how much the David Holmes/Graeme Souness revolution meant to the club, then you will understand why Coop was not a Scotland stalwart.
The situation with John Greig as manager was not acceptable, We had journeymen players for many years and at that time it was almost as though some fans were so switched off that they realised that continued failure was not so bad, as it meant that there would have to be a revolution.
Obviously, the revolution arrived and we really did not look back until the end of the first decade of the new millennium.
We are now at the beginning of a new revolution. This time, however, it is far more based upon business reasoning rather than having an over enthusiastic sugar daddy at the helm.
Having contrived a strategy to remove us from the top league for years, the Tims have totally blown the opportunity to sink us.
As I see it, we are witnessing the restoration of the natural order.
The situation with John Greig as manager was not acceptable, We had journeymen players for many years and at that time it was almost as though some fans were so switched off that they realised that continued failure was not so bad, as it meant that there would have to be a revolution.
Obviously, the revolution arrived and we really did not look back until the end of the first decade of the new millennium.
We are now at the beginning of a new revolution. This time, however, it is far more based upon business reasoning rather than having an over enthusiastic sugar daddy at the helm.
Having contrived a strategy to remove us from the top league for years, the Tims have totally blown the opportunity to sink us.
As I see it, we are witnessing the restoration of the natural order.
MO_TxTruBlu
Well-Known Member
I think the reason Cooper was not always an automatic starter under John Greig was obvious.
He had nowhere near the consistency levels we had come to expect of the wingers we had been used to during Greig's career, such as Henderson, Wilson, Johnston, McLean.
As brilliant as Cooper could be, it was a rarity.
Despite this,
Cooper still made more appearances under John Greig than any other Rangers player.
In 4 of the 5 full seasons that Greig was in charge, Cooper started in at least 40 games.
Only Bobby Russell (221) got more starts under Greig, but Cooper got 209 Starts, and 39 as a Sub.
As good as Cooper was late 70's/early 80's, he had little chance of displacing the consistent John Robertson in the Scotland side, who won two European Cups at Nottingham Forest, with Robertson scoring the winner in one Final, and laying on the winner in the other Final.
As decent as Scotland was 85-90, Davie Cooper was only twice on the winning side
(2-0 v Australia, 3-0 v Luxembourg) in the 15 Caps he won during that period.
Ever Ready
Well-Known Member
Incredible.
My first Scotland game the team had 8 European medals, along with Davie Cooper and Mo Johnston.
thomsonstackle
Well-Known Member
Double post
thomsonstackle
Well-Known Member
You couldn’t even imagine it now, but we had some of the best players in the world at the time.
Liverpool won the 78’ European Cup, Star player? Kenny Dalglish.
Nottingham Forest won the 79’ and 80’ European Cup, star player? John Robertson.
Liverpool won the 81’ European Cup, best defender of that tournament? Alan Hansen.
Aston Villa won the 82’ European Cup, their centre back pairing? A couple of relatively unknown Scottish lads called Evans and McNaught.
Aberdeen won the Cup Winners Cup in 83’ with a team full of Scots.
Liverpool won the European Cup again in 84’, their captain and inspiration? Graeme Souness.
It really isn’t a stretch to say that from 1978 to 1984 we genuinely had the talent to win a major international competition.
stevie221
Well-Known Member
We were pish.
Had Davie Cooper and Bobby Russell - exceptional wing wizards who deserved so much more, and a whole load of others. Wallace left Greig with an amazing team and why we didn't win the treble in 1979-80 is ridiculous, but the famous JG was never a manager.
In the early to mid-80's all we did was sign players who had played well against us in a game.
I don't want to say it too loud in case they hear me but John Greig and Ally McCoist as managers remind me of Neil Lennon today.
Had Davie Cooper and Bobby Russell - exceptional wing wizards who deserved so much more, and a whole load of others. Wallace left Greig with an amazing team and why we didn't win the treble in 1979-80 is ridiculous, but the famous JG was never a manager.
In the early to mid-80's all we did was sign players who had played well against us in a game.
I don't want to say it too loud in case they hear me but John Greig and Ally McCoist as managers remind me of Neil Lennon today.
I don't think Russell was anywhere near the wing, wizard i will agree with.
stevie221
Well-Known Member
I think my dad and I went to every domestic game that Bobby ever played, home and away. He was the best crosser of the ball and corner taker I ever knew. He was a winger and I watched almost every game he ever played - No.7 or 11.
stevie221
Well-Known Member
When I was a young boy I was a "ball boy" and used to play fitba on the red ash pitch under the Main stand. We used to stand in the goal (along with a couple of metal statues) and let the team take free kicks. Coop was either your best buddy or didn't care. For what it's worth John McCLelland knocked the heads off both the statues!
Oleg_McNoleg
Well-Known Member
Robertson only got a handful more caps than Cooper, to be fair. My boyhood memory is of Cooper featuring for Scotland a lot of the time. Guess there just weren’t as many games.
Smkz23
Well-Known Member
Rangers didn’t build their philosophy around him either.
Weir got 6 caps between 80 & 83 with Aberdeen in their heyday so seemed to hold down the position with Robertson in that period.
Deleted Account
Well-Known Member
They did, until Roxburgh took over
tazzabear
Well-Known Member
Then 86 to 89?
tazzabear
Well-Known Member
A Struth-esque comment.
I’d bet there are a million players who could’ve said the same but, to me, Cooper said it first.
Southpaws
Well-Known Member
Coop was an enigmatic genius and a home buddy who felt comfort in the things he knew and loved...His family, tennis, the bookies and of course Rangers. The fact that guys like Ruud Gullit recognised his genius was enough for me, Super was just super and when he could be arsed he was world class and when he couldn’t he was quite underwhelming.
He was definitely his ‘own man’, the ‘moody blue’ which did not always lend itself to him being the most consistent performer. That said I loved watching him perplex and bamboozle opponents by virtue of his incredible football brain and utter wand of a left peg...Coop is one who is very significantly missed by many!
He was definitely his ‘own man’, the ‘moody blue’ which did not always lend itself to him being the most consistent performer. That said I loved watching him perplex and bamboozle opponents by virtue of his incredible football brain and utter wand of a left peg...Coop is one who is very significantly missed by many!
tazzabear
Well-Known Member
From the arrival of Souness until his leg break in 93, the only striker to come close to McCoist was Johnston.
He should’ve been first pick.
What does this even mean?
We will have to agree to disagree on that, Russell was never a winger, he was one of the classiest midfielders we have had in all my time of follow following.
Davidsmith1
Well-Known Member
10 caps Provan got between 79 and 82. For me Cooper was one of the most talented genuises i ever saw but also one of the laziest players i ever saw.
Blue Lou Boyle
Well-Known Member
And why pick on new zealand?
The Team JG inherited had a number of guys who were in their 30’s, he didn’t replace himself as a leader and the money had dried up as we redeveloped Ibrox, the result was we ended up fighting for 3rd place for 5 or 6 seasons with the odd Cup as a bonus.
DonDraper
Well-Known Member
Behave yourself
Jaws
Well-Known Member
Coop, Russell, and Gordon Smith came in and freshened up an aging team and helped secure a second treble in three years. One of our most talented ever footballers however his career stalled after Jock Wallace’s departure and we fell into decline under Greig. It wasn’t until Wallace’s return and Souness arrival that he was motivated to show his real greatness.
Those early days, the Scotland team came predominantly from the English 1st division and unless a player was truly outstanding in Scotland they wouldn’t feature much. When he should’ve been a fixture, John Robertson was dominant and a host of far inferior players seemed to get preferred to Coop, Provan, Peter Weir & Eamon Bannon ffs!
Robertson was a class player, however imho Coop was way better but there are a host of cracking players who’ve been underused by Scotland and an even longer list of jobbers who’ve been way over capped. Tells you all you need to know. For example, our own Bobby Russell, cultured modern midfielder who’s game would have been ideally suited to international football, not a single call-up, Roy Aitken, headless-chicken grafter, 57 caps
Those early days, the Scotland team came predominantly from the English 1st division and unless a player was truly outstanding in Scotland they wouldn’t feature much. When he should’ve been a fixture, John Robertson was dominant and a host of far inferior players seemed to get preferred to Coop, Provan, Peter Weir & Eamon Bannon ffs!
Robertson was a class player, however imho Coop was way better but there are a host of cracking players who’ve been underused by Scotland and an even longer list of jobbers who’ve been way over capped. Tells you all you need to know. For example, our own Bobby Russell, cultured modern midfielder who’s game would have been ideally suited to international football, not a single call-up, Roy Aitken, headless-chicken grafter, 57 caps
Euro Scooter
Well-Known Member
There are a lot of good answers to the OP in this thread and nearly all of them have a valid point in why the caps count seems low. That mix of inconsistency, occasional lack of interest or effort and good competition or manager's favourites all played a part.
There was also a definite bias in favour of "Anglos" as the England-based or born players were known in Cooper's early years and then a more defensive or pragmatic approach in his later years that counted against him.
I'm just glad he was at Rangers through a period when there was absolutely nothing else to look forward to most weeks but also that he got some reward and medals when the good times came back.
There was also a definite bias in favour of "Anglos" as the England-based or born players were known in Cooper's early years and then a more defensive or pragmatic approach in his later years that counted against him.
I'm just glad he was at Rangers through a period when there was absolutely nothing else to look forward to most weeks but also that he got some reward and medals when the good times came back.
Frank Burnside
Well-Known Member
I always thought the national team played a lot less matches in Coop's days but did a check just out of curiosity. In the 1980's, they played 86 matches & in the decade that just finished (2010-2019) they played 85 matches. Was quite surprised by that.
DEJA BLUE
Well-Known Member
John greig had his favourites at the club no doubt about that, davie cooper was NOT a favourite of greig.
TCWNS1872
Well-Known Member
The sad thing is, all of the players mentioned couldn’t lace Coop’s boots.
For me, I reckon a sizeable amount of blame for Davie’s foibles in the 78-83 period could be laid at the door of the Greatest Ranger because he had a personal beef with him.
Smkz23
Well-Known Member
You’re seriously underestimating how good a player John Robertson was, he was central to Forest’s great success in the late 70’s.
TCWNS1872
Well-Known Member
Not at all. John Robertson was a smashing footballer. But in terms of raw talent, not on the same level as Cooper.
kenikinif
Well-Known Member
I think your mistaken with the season here we won nothing 79/80 and but for that horrendous night at the piggery we would have had a treble 78/79
Theknight
Well-Known Member
I remember Eamon bloody Bannon getting a game ahead of him at the 1986 World Cup. Some nerve to take the penalty that got us there, I'm convinced Stein would have played him more in that tourney than Ferguson did.
As an aside, I saw Davie Cooper play for Scotland at Hampden alongside Tommy Burns in one game. Can't remember the opposition but it was a joy to watch, they played as if they knew each others games perfectly.
As an aside, I saw Davie Cooper play for Scotland at Hampden alongside Tommy Burns in one game. Can't remember the opposition but it was a joy to watch, they played as if they knew each others games perfectly.
Absolutely, they have been to a World Cup more recently than us. He must be Australian
chickenhawk
Well-Known Member
McGovern captained Nottingham Forest to 2 european cup wins , never even got a single cap.
MO_TxTruBlu
Well-Known Member
You do know that Davie Cooper played more games under John Greig as a Manager,
than any other Rangers player?
Noddy
Well-Known Member
He scored the goal that got us to a play-off v Australia.
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