How far behind are they?

the way I look at it is this, their woes is not something that can be fixed by just throwing money at it, if they truely want to move forward as a club. the reason we're where we are now is because we give gerrard the time and carte blanche to completely reshape us as a club as he saw fit, will they afford their new manager such scope? what if they get the wrong person in? the long game paid off for us,(and let's face it, we got very lucky with gerrard) but it also stands us in good stead for the future, I don't know what the tims plans are, but if they aim to copy the way we did things, then that'll take time, and patience and old firm fans don't go hand in hand, if they go for a quick fix, they risk their club falling futher behind in the modern footballing landscape. bottom line is, we now have a blueprint of where we want to be as a club in the future and more importantly we now have the know how on how to achive these goals, we stick to that then I have no fears with us moving forward no matter what the tims do.
 
They don’t need a full rebuild though. If Desmond does decide to throw a wad of money at it and they get a good manager, they will be back in the game. Let’s not kid ourselves on.
New CEO or whatever Lawell title is
New DoF
New manager
Perhaps a new captain
At least 1 decent goalie, if not a decent back up too
Both full backs need replacing. Likely need two RBs
Ajer expected to go. julienne expected to be out until ~Nov. So need 3-4 CBs.
Midfield they will have Turnbull, McGregor and Maybe Christie. Arguably need at least 3 midfielders
Edouard highly likely to leave. Likely need 3-4 forwards

What does a full rebuild look like for you?
 
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right now they are f*cked

depends on how much money they throw at it in the summer
 
It isn’t but to say teams fear them I’d say 4 is probably the average we’d expect either us or them to lose a season, just think to say teams are beat before it’s started is wrong as they’ve slipped up in 12 games. They’ll never start losing regularly in the league sadly (hope they do of course)
At the current rate, dropping points more often than one out of every 3 games
 
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We are ahead no doubt about that, but if we think about it in terms of transfer windows, it's probably only a one window swing of a difference. By that I mean they have a very strong window and we have a relatively poor one with recruitment.
You can't compare it to where Gerrard was when he arrived. It has been a four window swing for us to get ahead of the.
The dross of the other teams in Scotland means it won't take much for them to be competitive against us again
 
New CEO or whatever Lawell title is
New DoF
New manager
Perhaps a new captain
At least 1 decent goalie, if not a decent back up to
Both full backs need replacing. Likely need to RBs
Ajer expected to go. julienne expected to be out until ~Nov. So need 3-4 CBs.
Midfield they will have Turnbull, McGregor and Maybe Christie. Arguable need at least 3 midfielders
Edouard highly likely to leave. Likely need 3-4 forwards

What does a full rebuild look like for you?
I’m genuinely bemused when folk think they don’t need a full rebuild of the playing squad.
 
I’m genuinely bemused when folk think they don’t need a full rebuild of the playing squad.

They do need a rebuild just as we did three years ago. That said, they still have some decent players on the books and a good manager with a sizable budget can make them competitive pretty quickly. The key, therefore, is whether they are willing to 'splash the cash' to get the manager and the players they need.
 
Sunday will give us an indication. Overall I think/hope they’re a full rebuild and a few seasons of bedding in new players away from our current level.
It’s down to us to remain consistent and continue to prove our worth.
 
It all depends on if they get it right in the summer or baws it up, can u realistically sign a full team in the one window and be great, its not easy
 
Sunday will give us an indication. Overall I think/hope they’re a full rebuild and a few seasons of bedding in new players away from our current level.
It’s down to us to remain consistent and continue to prove our worth.

Not just consistent, we need to get better. Although we got a good result against Prague, in some respects they were a better team than us. Our ambition should be later stages of the EL and CL on a regular basis.
 
They are still ahead is the attitude we must adopt or we could take our eye off the ball

Exactly correct !
If we don't believe that they are ahead of us then we should expect to suffer the results of complacency just as 'they' have this season AND failed to recognise.
Our ongoing resurgence which should have resulted in League Cup victory last season but which 'they' thankfully chose to ignore !
 
the way I look at it is this, their woes is not something that can be fixed by just throwing money at it, if they truely want to move forward as a club. the reason we're where we are now is because we give gerrard the time and carte blanche to completely reshape us as a club as he saw fit, will they afford their new manager such scope? what if they get the wrong person in? the long game paid off for us,(and let's face it, we got very lucky with gerrard) but it also stands us in good stead for the future, I don't know what the tims plans are, but if they aim to copy the way we did things, then that'll take time, and patience and old firm fans don't go hand in hand, if they go for a quick fix, they risk their club falling futher behind in the modern footballing landscape. bottom line is, we now have a blueprint of where we want to be as a club in the future and more importantly we now have the know how on how to achive these goals, we stick to that then I have no fears with us moving forward no matter what the tims do.
Well I hope they do several times over in fact. :))
 
I’m genuinely bemused when folk think they don’t need a full rebuild of the playing squad.
Your OP states you think they’re 2 years behind us just now and will be 3-4 years behind in a couple of months.
That’s bemusing mate.

I doubt one of our coaching staff believes that.
 
Probably not as far as we want to think, I include myself in that.

It's pretty clear that a lunatic like lennon and his angry bastard blame-everyone-else approach didn't work, an actual football manager like Rodgers got much more from alot of the same players.
One thing I'll give them,even in spite of the fact they lie their arses off about it(shocker)
Is they still get decent money for players they sell.
They'll probably get 15 million for Eduoard albeit they'll lose a percentage of the profit they make to his previous club.
Possibly several million for Christie.
Same with Ajer.

Ageing and useless Brown,Griffiths,Rogic and Duffy off the books.Barkas away back where he came from if rumours are true.

A good manager like Martinez with a healthy budget and they potentially could rebuild a lot stronger.

Obviously I hope they give a dinosaur like Roy Keane the job to appease their hoardes who will continue the fantastic abomination of a job TLB done at the paedodome.

After all,it's what that mhanky lot deserve.
 
It would be foolish for us to dismiss them as a threat. That’ sort of arrogance has been one of the key factors in their downfall this season.
 
Hunners eh mulyins

Looking forward to Spiers next article, about whichever gimp Celtic appoint, having to go up against "Gerrards all conquering" side.
 
I hear what you are saying but they should still be good enough to be the rest of the dung in the SPL. We still need to be relentless next year and keep them in their box. Complacency after this season is over may be our biggest issue!
 
Your OP states you think they’re 2 years behind us just now and will be 3-4 years behind in a couple of months.
That’s bemusing mate.

I doubt one of our coaching staff believes that.
I’m sure they don’t, but that’s my opinion based on what seems to need to be done. People saying they aren’t behind at all is odd. But it’s their opinion, I’m entitled to question that.
 
I hear what you are saying but they should still be good enough to be the rest of the dung in the SPL. We still need to be relentless next year and keep them in their box. Complacency after this season is over may be our biggest issue!
I don’t think complacency will come into it. Keep our boot on their faces.
 
First, let's not fall into the arrogant levels that helped in their demise.

Second, they pissed away the thick end of about 75 million in the last 18 months. That would include transfer fees for absolute failures with declining values, loan fees for failures and declining values for assets they were counting on from 2019-20 forward.

They'll get about 10c on the $ for the players they bought in those transfer windows. They've all decreased in value by a mile.

The players they counted on to sell at a huge profit have declined. They were talking about 40m for Edouard, now that's more like 15m. Still good value, but with sell-ons etc. they barely make a profit. Ajer was another asset that's declined in value. You'd also have fancied them to make a bit of money on Christie and possibly McGregor, those now don't seem likely.

We'll need to balance the books with a couple of sales. Best case scenario for me is that Kamara has a massive Euros and we can sell for a big number. A crazy offer for Tav would be an outlier, but with Patterson looking like a replacement at some point, a crazy bid would have to be considered. That one would be outside normal business for me though.

You'd also think guys like Alfie and Borna would at some point be looking to the EPL. Our hand may be forced on those, which would mean we need to spend some money to replace. If we sold those three (Kamara/Barisic/Alfie), I'd hope Ross Wilson could replace at a sizeable profit to the business.

Net spend and with their recent history of signings, I'd probably say they are in the 40m range needed to get close to our squad strength. That's not to say that puts them level with us, since we still have a squad and they will have an accumulation of pieces.
The first sentence sums it up.

We’ve been on the wrong end of a massive points swing like this season in the past and misplaced senses of security must have played their part much in the same way it was part of their undoing this year. Luckily for us, I doubt that the management team will be guilty of indulging themselves in any such complacency.

One season at a time loyal!
 
It will be down to how quickly there new manager settles in and also which players both teams sell and buy. What happened this season is no definate bearing on next.. If everything stayed status quo with players ( which it wont) then i would obviously fancy us again.
 
Enough for them to start panic buying hopefully. Whoever they get in as manager is going to want plenty of money and if they get it wrong we could have a big, big advantage.

They also need to clear out about 90% of that team.
 
Just thinking there, how far behind do you think they are? I reckon they’re where we were about 2 years ago, NOW!
So where will they be at the end of the season when they need 13 players? Where we were 3/4 years ago?
it’s Gona take more than 1 or 2 transfer windows to even get up to a par IMHO!
1. tgey can’t afford it.
2. Loads of new personnel behind the scenes.
3. New manager.
4. Time for players to settle and gel
5. They’re only looking at doing it half arsed because they’ll probably keep the back room staff.
There are more reasons but I think they’re in for a massive shock.
Hopefully we keep going and kick on again next season.
3 seasons before they even start to get close to the standard we are at.
 
Footballs a confidence game as much as anything

The win at piggery in october started them doubting and us believing the longer the run went for us the stronger we became.

That who serve us now for rest of this year and into next.

Where as the have some decent players and still enough arrogance and belief the were good to win but confidence slowly drained out of them.

Ironically the pressure from their own fans chasing them prob finished them.

A new rebuild which the winning attitude will be hard to replace.

Where we now have that and the confidence that comes with it
 
We all know how quickly things can turn between the Old Firm. We’ve just got to keep the hunger, desire and right attitude. Remain focussed, professional and continue to improve. The minute we stall, take our eyes of the prize or adopt an attitude that it’s just a matter of turning up, is when it all starts to fall apart.

We cannot be ignorant or arrogant like Celtic were.

There could be a number of changes across both clubs this summer - obviously they will be the club making the most.
 
To compare Rangers & septic current first team squads , we’re miles better than them .

However , septic are still better than the rest , it’s still gonna be the case that most weeks they will win their game , therefore , need to keep improving & maintain the standards & culture that haves been set .
 
We have to continue the standards and professionalism Gerrard has now engraved into our club, week in week out.
The assumption needs to be they will be less of a basket case next year with the removal of NL but I really do hope they get it horribly wrong - like Caixhina style wrong. If the shoe was on the other foot I would be feeling like we are 2-3 transfer windows behind.
 
A decent manager really will see a far closer fight, our success in the CEO bottling it could be the biggest gap they need to catch up with. We are on the up on and off the pitch and they are on the decline both ways
 
Not just consistent, we need to get better. Although we got a good result against Prague, in some respects they were a better team than us. Our ambition should be later stages of the EL and CL on a regular basis.
Agreed, I think we will get better. Still more to come from some of the more recent signings.
 
One thing I'll give them,even in spite of the fact they lie their arses off about it(shocker)
Is they still get decent money for players they sell.
They'll probably get 15 million for Eduoard albeit they'll lose a percentage of the profit they make to his previous club.
Possibly several million for Christie.
Same with Ajer.

Ageing and useless Brown,Griffiths,Rogic and Duffy off the books.Barkas away back where he came from if rumours are true.

A good manager like Martinez with a healthy budget and they potentially could rebuild a lot stronger.

Obviously I hope they give a dinosaur like Roy Keane the job to appease their hoardes who will continue the fantastic abomination of a job TLB done at the paedodome.

After all,it's what that mhanky lot deserve.
What would you consider a healthy budget? Bearing in mind they need around 7 first XI players, never mind the squad players also required.

Of the current squad, minus the expected departures in the summer, they would require

Gk
RB CB CB LB
MID
Christie McGregor
Turnbull
FORWARD FORWARD

A healthy budget for Rangers this summer could be say 10mil plus reinvest whatever we bring in

A "healthy budget" for Celtic needs to buy a keeper (or 2) a right back (ideally 2), 3 to 4 centrebacks, a left back, 2-3 midfielders and 3 forwards.

A "healthy budget" for that lot is about 100mil.

Can it be done for less? Sure. But that requires a lot more "getting lucky". Thats not the same as the healthy budget you brought up.

What is considered a healthy budget depends on a clubs situation and need. And their's is dire.

Thats not arrogance. Its just looking at the available info.

And thats before you even get into where is all this money coming from that they need?
 
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What would you consider a healthy budget? Bearing in mind they need around 7 first XI players, never mind the squad players also required.

Of the current squad, minus the expected departures in the summer, they would require

Gk
RB CB CB LB
MID
Christie McGregor
Turnbull
FORWARD FORWARD

A healthy budget for Rangers this summer could be say 10mil plus reinvest whatever we bring in


A "healthy budget" for Celtic needs to buy a keeper (or 2) a right back (ideally 2), 3 to 4 centrebacks, a left back, 2-3 midfielders and 3 forwards.

A "healthy budget" for that lot is about 100mil.

Can it be done for less? Sure. But that requires a lot more "getting lucky". Thats not the same as the healthy budget you brought up.

What is considered a healthy budget depends on a clubs situation and need. And their's is dire.

Thats not arrogance. Its just looking at the available info.

And thats before you even get into where is all this money coming from that they need?
We won’t be spending £10m on top of whatever we bring in on transfer fees. We need to show a healthy profit on our dealings, particularly this year after not doing so last Summer. Making the CL group stages would change that slightly but were we to get £20m for Alfie and keep everyone else we wouldn’t be going out and spending £30m. Not a chance.
 
We won’t be spending £10m on top of whatever we bring in on transfer fees. We need to show a healthy profit on our dealings, particularly this year after not doing so last Summer. Making the CL group stages would change that slightly but were we to get £20m for Alfie and keep everyone else we wouldn’t be going out and spending £30m. Not a chance.
Agree. Dont think we will spend that. Just providing that as an example of what might be considered a healthy budget for us. When building from a position of stability and strength a so called "healthy budget" would be considerably smaller in value than trying to rebuild an entire squad, or entire club. So was just using a fairly arbitrary but plausible figure to illustrate my point.

So when the poster I quoted spoke of Martinez spending a "healthy budget" on the East Side, well, I'm not sure they have the capability to cobble together the budget they need in their situation. For a number of reasons. Reduced business and football performance this year, covid etc.
 
The end of the summer transfer window upcoming will tell you everything.

If they get it wrong or have a decent window I still fancy us to kick on from here, till the point that we are them reaching the point of potentially looking for the gaffers successor.

My only question mark is that they potentially have resources and a backer available who could subsidise an effective rebuild. That would make them more competitive challengers. Honestly though, I just don't really see them getting it right short term.

What I don't doubt at all is that we are top dogs again, and its not temporary. Making the champions league next year would be even more likely to push us out of sight for a few seasons at least.

They can try and deflect all they want, but we took them on in the most powerful position they have been in for years from our weakest, and the first season we really got it right tactically and squad additions wise we absolutely annihilated them.
 
Agree. Dont think we will spend that. Just providing that as an example of what might be considered a healthy budget for us. When building from a position of stability and strength a so called "healthy budget" would be considerably smaller in value than trying to rebuild an entire squad, or entire club. So was just using a fairly arbitrary but plausible figure to illustrate my point.

So when the poster I quoted spoke of Martinez spending a "healthy budget" on the East Side, well, I'm not sure they have the capability to cobble together the budget they need in their situation. For a number of reasons. Reduced business and football performance this year, covid etc.
Well, I guess first they have to find a Manager. They will expect, but not necessarily get, upwards of £30m for Ajer and Edouard. More if they ditch McGregor and Christie.

So, I agree, a major rebuild probably involving double digit transfers in as we did not so long ago. I think they will have a healthy budget to do so though. Then it comes down to how successful their recruitment is and what sort of tune the new Manager can get out of them.
 
Well, I guess first they have to find a Manager. They will expect, but not necessarily get, upwards of £30m for Ajer and Edouard. More if they ditch McGregor and Christie.

So, I agree, a major rebuild probably involving double digit transfers in as we did not so long ago. I think they will have a healthy budget to do so though. Then it comes down to how successful their recruitment is and what sort of tune the new Manager can get out of them.
Agree with all of that

Except that "healthy" is still relative ; )
 
Well they need a whole back line plus gk. Ajer wants away and he’s their only decent defender. They need a sitting midfielder because brown is going to retire and soro it’s pretty shite. Then they will need a striker, probably two if they sell edouard, which is likely considering his contract length. They only have one winger in Forrest as well, he will pick up more injures now that he’s a little older. So they will need to invest in a winger as well. That’s not including Christie has only got a year left. So they would need to replace him as well. In reality we should be dominating the next two seasons at least if we recruit correctly. They need to have perfect transfer windows over the next few for them to catch up with us. That’s unlikely imo.
 
It may be difficult for us to be as consistent, especially with CL exertions. A decent manager will make them better. It's not a huge gap.

Their dilemma is whether to accept a title is not likely next season and allow the new guy to rebuild. With direct entry to CL, though, it's a difficult position.
 
Well....they are not that far behind yet but the gap will become a chasm, care less how long it takes. The Rangers fell behind by some poor Boardroom management and all the rest of it that nobody here needs telling. The Celts have just collapsed under pressure on the pitch, not Banks nor Legalities and relegation(s), sure they traded long and large on the absence of The Rangers and racked up trophies that the sanest Celtic fans couldn't possibly compare with excellent(previous) sides.

Tommy Burns , was a decent Celt whose sides played attacking football but not quite as good as the Gers then. To even mention that fellow Lennon in the same breath as a player, manager and a man to T.B is an insult to all intelligence, football or otherwise

They will continue to tumble, doesn't matter, we are marching again, while they delude themselves with names, Roy at their forefront. Rangers are delighted with S.G and his quality backroom staff.Talk of S.G leaving soon is just baloney, he's not going anywhere soon, he's got total support of the board and a huge worldwide support at one of the worlds most famous clubs....he's not going anywhere, anytime soon, he's going to build.

This is a football club that never went away, someone somewhere made an executive decision(s) and got S.G and his staff, qualified gamble. Sound, sane, intelligent man who looks and talks the part. Hardly forgive myself other than see Lennon as a thick, charmless, arrogant, ignorant inciting bigot, eventually, even Celtic fans couldn't bear the sight nor sound of him. An idiot made good on an empty field, dropped the Celts and went to Bolton where he had more wins in Hotel bedrooms than on the football field. His record worthless, his reputation much worse.

WATP.
 
I think they are in disarray and they have no magic wand to get it right. Their next manager will get rid of and sign new players and all of that needs to work out the way they need it to. If we play our cards right we can dominate for a few seasons.
 
It may be difficult for us to be as consistent, especially with CL exertions. A decent manager will make them better. It's not a huge gap.

Their dilemma is whether to accept a title is not likely next season and allow the new guy to rebuild. With direct entry to CL, though, it's a difficult position.
They've got a huge rebuild on their hands, Brown is done, Edouard is unsettled, McGregor has lost his way, they need a reliable keeper and two or three defenders add to that Griffiths looks done as well. We keep improving the squad and they'll be three years to rebuild a squad that can threaten
 
They need a huge rebuild, but it's naive to think the gap is insurmountable. For me, their issues are: A goalkeeper, 2 centre halves, A replacement for Scott Brown (As much of a dick as he is, he was their talisman). Edouard and Christie will leave as well. That's an entire spine of a team. Add in a new CEO, A new manager and a director of football, they will need to hit the ground running.

We need to concentrate on ourselves, however. We could lose 2 big players and our recruitment needs to be spot on.
 
%^*& them it's how far we keep pushing them backwards that counts, we step off the gas and they will catch us pressure is the name of the game and canny buying of players.
 
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