How long did you think it would take us to fully recover from 2012?

I thought anywhere between 5-10 years. We took a lot of damage. And then instead of having people jump into place to fix it we instead ended up with a bunch of crooks trying to asset strip us even further.

However, we will comfortably have the second biggest wage bill in Scotland and it has been an indictment on the backroom and playing staff we've had that we've not managed silverware in the period.

I don't expect this to be a popular comment, but I think it is inescapable when we look back at it all: One thing that I'll never *fully* understand - and I've read it in all the same minutiae as everyone else in here has - is why some of our real Rangers minded guys didn't move heaven and earth to get control of the club sooner. I appreciate the fact that we were being stitched up from the inside and out. But ultimately money talks. This is not a slight on King or any of the other guys. They got us there eventually. But every month that we were under the control of bastards like Whyte, Green etc feels like it's set us back another year. All I know is that if I had the wealth of someone like McColl reportedly does then there's no way I'd have been able to sit back and watch it all unfold the way it did.

As things stand - Covid aside (which I know is no minor issue) - I'm pleased we've increasingly sorted out the off-field nonsense with fucking arseholes like Ashley. In addition to the direct issues with strips and merchandise, it must have been likely that his mere association with the club has been toxic in the view of potential investors. Hopefully a period of stability now whilst we regrow the financial side and in turn help to grow the team. But, we need silverware sooner rather than later, especially if SG is going to be here beyond this season.
 
PunkScott said:
After that semi-final I was naive to think we had done it...
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Was just about to post the same. Tbf Rodgers was a very good appointment for them.

TLB however has had the advantage of (a) simply seeing out last season for them and (b) getting handed the title this year by the SPFL (though let's be honest they would probably have won it anyway due to us royally fuckin it up after New Year). There will be no excuses if he's allowed to lift the trophy again next season.
 
crmpicco said:
I’m interested to know what the opinion of this board is on the timescales for recovery from 2012.

Back in 2012 it was clear to me things were bad and we were going to have a rough road ahead and I recall thinking that the three year European ban would be effectively a write-off in terms of any success (excluding lower leagues). I expected us to be back in the SPL for the 15/16 season and slowly challenging for the title over the next 2-3 seasons. Obviously I hoped for better, but was prepared for a scenario like this.

I’ll hold my hands up and admit I would never have thought we’d be staring at a full decade without a trophy if we do actually win something next season. In my opinion our recovery is slower than it should’ve been and we are still a few years away from taking our rightful place at the top of the game - and we should be there by now, IMO.

What were the expectations amongst the support?
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Short answer...never.
What Murray did has damaged this club irreparably.
This should never... ever be forgotten.
 
adamski said:
Five years.

But that was based on a functioning club, and not having 3 years of open theft, and a further five years untangling the turd from the cloth.

Warburton should have been moved on after promotion, barring two cup games in the second half of his first season, we'd gone stale and easy to play against. An experienced manager should have been brought in, whilst long term planning could begin.
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In the season we came back up Falkirk lost fewer games in the league than we did.

That's a history f_ucker of never before in our history proportions.

But hey we beat the filth in the cup.

The warning signs were all there.

My old man's generation had John Valentine in the 57 LC final. We had Kiernan and to a lesser extent Tav in the 2016 SC final.

To compound matters we then bring in Senderos to augment as bad a centre half pairing as we've ever had. Although I'm being a wee tad unfair on Wilson. We did win a title with him in the side. We'd never have won one, with Kiernan.

I think after the garbage served up to us by the not so merry Macs, Warburton did seem originally like a breath of fresh air. In the end he was only of the hot variety.

However there were people come the October of 2015/16 voicing disquiet about the defence. Predictably on here, they were shouted down.
 
CapitalBear1973 said:
Was just about to post the same. Tbf Rodgers was a very good appointment for them.
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He was, they cost cut until we returned, we shocked them in 2016 and it bit us in the arse. Lennon coming back is probably another cost cut, but we are just our own worst enemy.
 
bearspakora said:
We should have beaten a terrible Hibs side in the SCF. I'm actually still embarrassed at that shambolic end to the Final.
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That to me remains the biggest kick in the balls since 2012 on the pitch.hindsight is a wonderful thing but I had a bad feeling about that final the minute hibs beat Dundee utd in the semi-final.i would have much preferred to play Dundee utd in that final.
What saved warburton getting a rocket from the support was the aftermath.
 
CapitalBear1973 said:
Was just about to post the same. Tbf Rodgers was a very good appointment for them.

TLB however has had the advantage of (a) simply seeing out last season for them and (b) getting handed the title this year by the SPFL (though let's be honest they would probably have won it anyway due to us royally fuckin it up after New Year). There will be no excuses if he's allowed to lift the trophy again next season.
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I'd go further and say this - again, not expecting to cop a lot of positivity from this - but I genuinely feel TLB has improved into a more than reasonable coach. There were glimpses of it at Hibs, he had them well organised and performing well. He gets a tune out of the current set of scummy bastards at Parkhead too. However, we know his temperament is suspect and we really need to put in a season-long sustained challenge. No-one has put him under that sort of pressure yet.
 
wee bud's pit boots said:
However there were people come the October of 2015/16 voicing disquiet about the defence. Predictably on here, they were shouted down.
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There were people on here wanting Walter sacked at some points. "Football dinosaur". This board is not always the best place to judge the opinions of our fans.
 
I have to say I was very naive looking back. I fully expected us to fly back through the leagues and pretty much mount a challenge. A few years into it I realised there was a lot more to be done. We lost everything, other than the support which throughout has been magnificent. Sitting here now I would say we will win the title if not next season then fairly soon. Once that happens I think we will be there or there abouts. We have all become so accustomed to false dawns that we live in the negative and emotional side of following football. But by fook when the time comes I will celebrate that more than anything I ever have.
 
Ger57 said:
To be honest, I expected us to come back challenging quicker than we have achieved, but I wasn't aware back in 2012 the depth of corruption we would be exposed to. Ashley, Whyte, Green the Greenock Krays etc, etc.

I also underestimated the sheer hatred and levels of outright cheating/obstructive practices we would have imposed upon our recovery. Sporting Integrity? It's clearer to me now more than ever, that we aren't dealing with people with any modicum of 'sporting integrity'.

This whole episode has stank to the high heavens and has nothing to do with sport at all. It has everything to do with hate, politics and religious bigotry, the veneer of 'sport' is merely that, a veneer.

Any love I had for Scottish football is gone, burned away by the experiences of recent years. It's barely alive in my eyes now. If it dies completely, it dies. Maybe we can shift to another, less corrupt league, who knows.

Yes, I'm renewing my ST, but my self imposed domestic away ban remains. Hopefully we win the league next year and I'll celebrate, but we will still be here, so and I'll continue to support Rangers and enjoy the company of my fellow bears in spite of 'them'.
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Pretty much my feelings too. Not been a ST holder for years once my kids were born but returned with my teenage son this season For the European games and the buzz was back. Took him to the boozer for the OF at New Year and we left the pub buzzing for what was in store. Sadly, I think we thought we had won the league that day. Metal attitude coupled with some howling individual errors wrecked the rest of the season. However, SG has improved us every year and to be fair to him he inherited utter garbage bar a handful. The Covid thing has been a shambles but I hope we are doing the right things behind the scenes in prep for what is now a massive season.
 
Maybe I’m a fool, but I think we’re almost there. It’s hards to compare In many ways. With the team p we have much less experience, both on the field and in the dugout but, have far more potential in our ranks. Off the field we may be in better shape given Murray had taken us to the brink of bankruptcy. I know we are not as powerful as the mentally challengeds yet in both aspects but I think they are much more vulnerable than us off the park, with their payroll, and the padophile scandal lurking in the background. I reckon that’s part of the push to end 2019/20 and get 2020/21 started ASAP. If we believe the word coming out of Ibrox, and there is really no reason not to, we are on fairly stable ground with the current group of investors. Where we’d be without them however is another matter. We clearly need to balance the books, but I think as Dave King said, when the first title comes, things will starts to fall into place like dominos falling. It needs to come soon though. That’s why the next few seasons will be amongst the most Important ones in our history

To be honest I thought we’d be back in 5 seasons, but didn’t take into account the shambles of Green, Ashley, etc but now they’re gone, I e pect success in the near future.
 
I thought it would be a bit quicker than it has been, but i'm a prick who gets away ahead of himself
 
Laudrup11Cooper said:
Short answer...never.
What Murray did has damaged this club irreparably.
This should never... ever be forgotten.
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If I was ever lucky enough to win the triple, double, quadruple rollover on the Euromillions, I'd make millions available to the club.

On one condition.

The portrait of Murray was whitewashed off the mural in the Blue Room.

And for those who say you can't re-write history?

I say bullshit.

If you leave the silhouette, generations of youngsters who come after us, will ask why and who was that?

And then you tell the story of his negligence and duplicity.
 
10 years.

It wasn’t the financial collapse itself but the inevitable asset strippers who were lurking to bleed us as they do with so many other companies in trouble.

Clearing out feet of all of those people and the erroneous contracts that went with them, has taken us until this summer.

We can now start to operate like a normal club again.
 
adamski said:
Five years.

But that was based on a functioning club, and not having 3 years of open theft, and a further five years untangling the turd from the cloth.

Warburton should have been moved on after promotion, barring two cup games in the second half of his first season, we'd gone stale and easy to play against. An experienced manager should have been brought in, whilst long term planning could begin.
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I think this is the problem - a club being run properly, and in the interests of the club, would have been better able to re-establish itself.
What we found was that the people who “rescued” Rangers were in it for their own financial gain, and then the club was passed around their mates so that they could a bit out as well.
And then we discovered that one of the hardest nosed, cynical businessmen in the country had successfully bound the club with complex contractual arrangements that were designed to bleed Rangers dry.

When you consider that coming on the heels of years of a lack of interest or investment from David Murray and then 9 months or so of a new owner who was essentially selling off the family silver from day one because he knew he was going to sink the business, it’s quite an achievement for Rangers to be where we are.

In the background to all of that, the dark arts performed by Lawwell see Rangers in an environment where clubs will actively vote to cripple themselves because “someone” has influenced it, and where you have match officials utterly terrified to give correct decisions “for” Rangers/“against” Celtic for fear of retribution.
In the background to all of that, the dark arts performed by Lawwell see Rangers in an environment where clubs will actively vote to cripple themselves because “someone” has influenced it, and where you have match officials utterly terrified to give correct decisions “for” Rangers/“against” Celtic for fear of retribution.

I think most of us are found wondering what will come next.
Getting a football team on the park that can challenge for trophies is only part of the recovery that is required.
 
At the time I thought 5 years till a knockout cup (none during promotions, none in first SPL season.) - 2017/18.

Realistically, I expected to go up the divisions immediately. So we fell back a year by spending 2 in the championship. Didn’t expect to win anything till in the prem. Didn’t expect to win anything first season back either. Also feel Pedro put us back 2 seasons.

With the setbacks (1 extra in championship and Pedro putting us back 2 imo), next season should be the year for a trophy realistically. It is easy to forget the mountain we have climbed as we always expect the best. Think of all the CL/European money which has been pumped into our rivals since 2012 and we are doing well to compete so closely, so soon.
 
I thought we'd come straight through the divisions but what I didn't factor in was the numerous shysters involved in running our club. Some of the work they did has set us back years.
 
Everyone would have hoped for sooner but the years revealed more problems and should have changed expectations.

We've only just rid ourselves of Ashley.
 
I thought it could have been done in 4 years - but in my defence I expected us to be taken over by people who wanted the club to succeed, build sustainably through the divisions and use the time to develop both facilities and youth program.

I may have erred on the side of optimism.
 
At least 10 years and I said that we'd be 2 seasons in the championship as well.

As an aside, I reckoned we would have picked up either a league or Scottish cup along the way and should have if we could defend in 2016.
 
Cut a long story short, now we have SG in control, I would give him 5 years to start producing silverware, that is with dominance in mind
 
Three seasons to get back to the top then three more.
That wasn’t allowing for the damage the spivs caused.
Once King took over, I thought it be at least three years again.
However that wasn’t allowing for the legacy the spivs left us with Ashley.
With King and co, Gerrard has us ahead of my last revision in that I hoped we’d be as close as we got last season.
The previous season gave us hope and by Christmas this became an expectancy.
That’s me for the coming season.
I expect to win the league.
 
I dont think any of us foresaw the traps set by Ashley and Co.

They alone knocked us back a minimum 2-3 years and I didn't think we would be shot of them by now as it unravelled before our eyes.

I'm sure we all hope that his cancer is gone.
 
When we pumped hibs 6-2 at Easter Road, think it was Warburton's first real test against better opposition. I did think that we can't be far off being competitive in the Premiership. We were playing nice football on the eye for the first time in a long time too. How wrong was I!
 
At the time, I thought we would skoosh the 3 lower leagues without breaking sweat, probably win a cup or two, then be Champions again within a year or two getting back in the Premiership.

I might have slightly underestimated the impact it was going to have!
 
Many people expected us to win a Cup the first season we came back to the top flight and to win the league the year after that. The 'Going For 55' TIFO and the fact that the club used the same motto in the season ticket sales campaign that year, tells us all what the prevailing mindset was. Quite clearly, it was over-optimistic, and Warburton himself, said so and his heart sank when he walked out the tunnel and saw it. It placed an immense pressure on a team who simply weren't up to it.

After a disappointing spell under Warburton and a disasterous spell under Caixinha, we were set back heavily and a new era dawned under Steven Gerrad. I said from day one, that the biggest obstacle that he would face in his quest for success, would be the unrealistic and over-optimistic expectations of a huge section of the Rangers support. A colossal pressure was on him from day one and few considered that no matter how hard he tried, he may simply not have the right tools needed to do the job.

Again, the overwhhelming expectation, as indicated by a number of polls on here, was that he would deliver a Cup in his first season, and the league title in his second. From a success point of view, it has been very, very disappointing.

We're now in a position where we have to redouble our efforts and throw everything (within reason) we have at a sustained push for the league title. If we fail to achieve it (and we won't do it by signing SPFL journeymen) then there's no question that it will mean the end of the road for Gerrard, and we'll be back to square one. Just like we were with Warburton and just like we were with Caixinha.

The mentally challengeds motivation to win a tenth league title will be just as raw as our motivation to stop them, so in reality they cancel eachother out. Much of it will come down to the quality of player on the park, and to who has the most self-belief.

A winning mentality is a huge aphrodisiac in football, and on too many occasions of late, players wearing the Rangers shirt have failed to produce on the day, and drag themselves over the finishing line. At the same time, those across the city have been able to dig that little bit deeper and get the job done - by hook or by crook.

Winning the league would propel us to the next level and the Champions League riches, but failing to win it will see us enter another slump, that it will take another few years to break out of. We will not 'be back' until we win the league title and I'm not so sure that we currently have the ability to do it next season - unless we pull some real quality signings out of the hat between now and kick-off.
 
I think a more relevant question might be "How long did we think it might take Scottish football to recover from 2012?".

Truth is it never has, and I fear it never will.
 
Kylegib said:
I thought we'd come straight through the divisions but what I didn't factor in was the numerous shysters involved in running our club. Some of the work they did has set us back years.
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Indeed, same for me.

If King and co hadn’t wrestled control from Ashley we’d be cannon fodder for decades.

we wouldn’t currently own Ibrox for a start, this would have been a sale a lease back and you can bet it would have been on favourable terms to a Spiv.
Stockbridge would still isint Rangers bank accounts to pay for his night with hookers in Glasgow hotels. Death by a thousand cuts.

The SFA actually did us a favour by deciding against Ashley when he was trying to increase his 9.9%.

Instead, we’re getting closer. On and off the pitch.
 
crmpicco said:
I’m interested to know what the opinion of this board is on the timescales for recovery from 2012.

Back in 2012 it was clear to me things were bad and we were going to have a rough road ahead and I recall thinking that the three year European ban would be effectively a write-off in terms of any success (excluding lower leagues). I expected us to be back in the SPL for the 15/16 season and slowly challenging for the title over the next 2-3 seasons. Obviously I hoped for better, but was prepared for a scenario like this.

I’ll hold my hands up and admit I would never have thought we’d be staring at a full decade without a trophy if we do actually win something next season. In my opinion our recovery is slower than it should’ve been and we are still a few years away from taking our rightful place at the top of the game - and we should be there by now, IMO.

What were the expectations amongst the support?
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The recruitment since 2016 has been horrendous. I think that's more relevant to where we are on the pitch just now. You can see it on a bigger scale with Man Utd - if recruitment is that bad it will cripple your ability to be competitive.

Can you imagine where we might be if the money spent on Garner, Cardoso, Pena, Herrera, Grezda had been spent better?

If the contracts handed to Barton and Alves had been given to better bosmans?

We've seen very little return on Dorrans, Rossiter, Murphy etc.

Even the cheaper signings like Hodson, Jones, Barker all add up.

How many genuine successes have their really been? Morelos obviously, Jack on a fre was decent business. A lot of guys did us a turn but not much else, jury still out on an awful lot of them.

We've wasted millions on mediocre players. You just can't do that an expect to be succesful.
 
Ger57 said:
To be honest, I expected us to come back challenging quicker than we have achieved, but I wasn't aware back in 2012 the depth of corruption we would be exposed to. Ashley, Whyte, Green the Greenock Krays etc, etc.

I also underestimated the sheer hatred and levels of outright cheating/obstructive practices we would have imposed upon our recovery. Sporting Integrity? It's clearer to me now more than ever, that we aren't dealing with people with any modicum of 'sporting integrity'.

This whole episode has stank to the high heavens and has nothing to do with sport at all. It has everything to do with hate, politics and religious bigotry, the veneer of 'sport' is merely that, a veneer.

Any love I had for Scottish football is gone, burned away by the experiences of recent years. It's barely alive in my eyes now. If it dies completely, it dies. Maybe we can shift to another, less corrupt league, who knows.

Yes, I'm renewing my ST, but my self imposed domestic away ban remains. Hopefully we win the league next year and I'll celebrate, but we will still be here, so and I'll continue to support Rangers and enjoy the company of my fellow bears in spite of 'them'.
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This all the way
 
I thought it would be a decade to recover and at times I thought we never would. I think we’re 90% recovered now but we still lack the “just win” attitude that we had prior to 2012.
 
GeckoBear29 said:
Pedro/Murty was a massive set back IMO.
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Pedro’s appointment was a calamity and an obvious error right off the bat. A complete lack of accountability at board level for that error. A lot of time and money wasted on ludicrous appointment.
 
JamesyMRR said:
Pedro’s appointment was a calamity and an obvious error right off the bat. A complete lack of accountability at board level for that error. A lot of time and money wasted on ludicrous appointment.
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The warning signs were there at progres away. We might’ve been able to salvage something that season had he been removed then p
 
Remember talking to a retired finance expert and he reckoned 7 years just to stabilise.
He was right with most things at the time but i remember thinking....fck sakes.
 
Depends what you mean by recovery?

And given what actually happened to us in 2012 can you please explain why you think we "should be there by now"?
 
McCoist set us back years.

Murty, Caixinha, McCall/McDowall just made the pain even worse. Warburton's Championship league season was acceptable - the rest hurt us too.

Since 2012 the board of directors have barely got a footballing decision right.

We should have had the Scottish Cup in 2016. Four years later and we are still trophy less. That's unacceptable.

Given we play in Scottish football with the budget compared to the rest, we are behind where I expected us to be. Not surprised though as the managerial appointments and signings made have been brutal.
 
JamesyMRR said:
I thought it would be a decade to recover and at times I thought we never would. I think we’re 90% recovered now but we still lack the “just win” attitude that we had prior to 2012.
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Totally agree -we were on life support and are now getting back to “fighting condition”.
 
The number of people on here saying that we're not where we need to be seems somewhat at odds with the number of posts talking about Gerrard/Warburton winning us 55/where the title party is going to be/how many points we're going to win it by.
 
My old man at the time was adamant that it would take us 10 years. I laughed at him and said not to be so stupid. He’s pretty much nailed it. I’d never have imagined we wouldn’t have won a domestic cup at the very least in that time. It’s been a long struggle but one day we will get there. We are getting closer.
 
Rangerstillidie said:
My old man at the time was adamant that it would take us 10 years. I laughed at him and said not to be so stupid. He’s pretty much nailed it. I’d never have imagined we wouldn’t have won a domestic cup at the very least in that time. It’s been a long struggle but one day we will get there. We are getting closer.
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i dont think he did nail it as we've made alot of mistakes along the way and wasted alot of money.

It shouldn't have taken 8 years but we're getting there.

We say it every year but next season is massive and could be make or break.
 
I'll be frank with you, I thought we would get promoted every year and win the diddy cup too every year. I also thought we would have an outside chance of winning the league cup or Scottish cup whilst still in the lower leagues. I thought we'd push Celtic a bit in our first year back in the Premiership.

The Easdale block didn't help things at all, but neither did Ally, Warburton or Pedro. Gerrard improved things a lot but not as quickly as I hoped.

We'll get there though, it's in the post.
 
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