How long did you think it would take us to fully recover from 2012?

I thought we would have done it by now however realised each year we moved away from 2012 just how much bigger and harder our task would be both on and off the field albeit I did not expect the goalposts to be moved to accomodate hmrc in the btc prior nor the level of corruption and bias against us by the spl/sfa spfl/sfa and match officials!
 
I'll be frank with you, I thought we would get promoted every year and win the diddy cup too every year. I also thought we would have an outside chance of winning the league cup or Scottish cup whilst still in the lower leagues. I thought we'd push Celtic a bit in our first year back in the Premiership.

The Easdale block didn't help things at all, but neither did Ally, Warburton or Pedro. Gerrard improved things a lot but not as quickly as I hoped.

We'll get there though, it's in the post.
Again- did you realise the gravity of our situation?
 
I dropped all expectations surrounding rangers in 2012. I don't think we'll ever fully recover and get back to what we were, to be honest
 
I always thought 3 years to get back up the leagues 2 years to be competitive for the title with maybe a cup in one of the two years and then a title within 2 years.

basically the McCoist years cost us in building a young team, Warburton cost us after his first season as he couldn’t understand the nature of the Scottish game. Pedro was the biggest disaster and waste of time and resources.

I also did not Factor in the damage that the Spivs would do to us. Between them and Pedro it’s probably about 2-3 year set back.
 
New here, so hello all.

I was probably quite young and naive back when this all happened to think we would have straight back to back promotions into the prem again. In saying that I don't think that would have been too far fetched we're it not for the whole Ashley situation and the instability we had to deal with in those years. 2012 was the year it all began but certainly wasn't the end of our issues. Those few seasons in the championship were a wakeup call for me on how far we probably were from challenging up at the top. Thought Caixinha would be the start of a new era for us but that didn't go so well either.

Probably stating the obvious but don't think we are too far off now and things are starting to look a lot better in all aspects of the club. Taking back control of our retail will give us another huge boost I hope, just all about that winning mentality on the pitch now, that post winter dip in form is the only thing separating us.
 
Ages. The support by and large was kidding itself. I remember on here the broad agreement was that people wanted to go into 3rd Division rather than the 1st Division. Absolutely mental.

We didn't just go down to 3rd Division and allow us to build again, we were not able to build at all in any sense until Warburton came in . And then we had Pedro set up back millions the very next season.
 
I thought we would win a major trophy on our way back but I knew we'd be about this time away from a title.

I didn't expect to get back to such a level in Europe so "quickly" though.

I guess we were only a last minute goal and an offside goal away from being able to say we won both cup already.
 
I thought it would be 5 years.
Build a team just good enough to win each league. I wasn't going to be bothered if we only won each league by a few points.
Arrive back in the top league with a fat bankroll and at least win a cup within 2 years of top league return.

Optimism
 
For me I think loosing that playoff in such appalling fashion against Motherwell was the biggest on the field set back we have had - if as was widely reported at the time Vitor Pereira had took over had we won the match then who knows what might have happened - his stock has dropped now but at the time he was a highly touted and successful manager.
 
10 years.

Got excited under Warburton & began to think we'd be back sooner. Should have won the Scottish Cup. Then we got promoted, reality hit and the wheels fell off.

Pedro set us back then Gerard got us back on track with x2 Europa League qualification.

We are roughly on track for the 10 year prediction..
 
We should be much further ahead of where we are. The fact thah mhob could have conveably have won 4 trebles on the spin is a damning indictment on all of scottish football.
 
We could have won the league this year but for poor form after New year where in hindsight a couple of new faces could have pushed the team on , a raft of “ honest mistakes “from our officials and outright cheating from Clancy across the city who must be in line for a medal given the amount of times he refereed the club like no other , an injury to Defoe was a sore one also

I don’t buy the we are years behind myth as we’ve played them off the park on numerous occasions now , it’s the other games we let ourselves down in , the Manager has to look at certain away games and realise that 4-3-3 isn’t going to work when 5 in the middle against you are kicking anything that moves

We need to be really on the front foot with the corrupt / poor officials as dignified silence doesn’t work no matter if we win lose or draw call them out and highlight it in our press conferences, building bridges wins you nothing , we are treated like shite regardless

Sadly I don’t think we are getting inside a football stadium until a vaccine is found so who knows how this will pan out

But I will add that Rangers were fined £100k and had an 18 month transfer ban for going into administration, the mentally challengeds have a number of pending court cases over them facilitating a child sex ring , if found guilty that’s a far far more serious offence than running up debts , I’m not confident the current regime can be trusted to deal with it in a professional manner In fact there’s No chance of it being dealt with but we should as a club and support be at the forefront to ensure Moral Integrity deals with them
Agreed with the old firm games,we don't seem to apply the same urgency and application against the rest of the teams. Dubai still mystfies me and that still needs to be addressed, it's not as if we've a bad team. The countless times we shoot ourselves in the foot is shocking.
 
We undoubtedly wasted the opportunity to be back in the top flight and be cash rich with a young squad. There was no need to have dross like Kevin Kyle, Boyd and Ian Black picking up the wages they were.

How the %^*& can people still think this was a serious possibility for us?

We "wasted" nothing

McCoist fought tooth and nail just to keep us alive and then we were raped and plundered by crooks for years.

Only since Dave King got control have we been in a situation to try and be a proper football club, but it was basically starting from scratch.
 
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, we made some big mistakes in the rebuilding.....made possible by the charlatans who owned us pre King and 3 Bears. 10 yrs is looking more likely unless we make some significant in roads with signings this year.
 
We were already on the slippery slope by appointing McCoist. He blew nearly half his transfer budget on Wallace when our current left back had been one of our most consistent performers for the previous 5 years or so.

He signed the likes of Ortiz, Bedoya, Celik and Matt McKay who despite being captain of Australia didn’t play him.

Did we not blow a 10 point or so lead that season when the players went from Smith’s to McCoist’s tactics.

Circumstances took over for the following season but instead of building foundations with youth he blew nearly a £1million on Templeton, signed the likes of Faure, Stella, Black, Argriou, Sandaza, Cribari, Mohsni, Peralta, Simonsen, Cammy Bell, Clark, Zaliukas, and Kris Boyd who scored 3 goals in over 30 championship games.

The money wasted in the years under McCoist was staggering and set us back ten fold anything Warburton or Pedro did.

We couldn’t even win the Ramsdens Cup ffs under McCoist.

Warburton took over with absolutely nothing. He done his job first time of asking and got us out the championship. Spending just over £1/2million, his second season signings were a joke however he left us with players that made us money. Waghorn, Windass. We should have made money on Wes but at least got our monies worth and some, same with Tav.

Warburton only spent around £2.5 million total, with Joey Garner accounting for half of that.

Pedro inherited Warburton’s second season shambles, but only spent just over £5million net. He brought us Candeias who we got our monies worth and some, Jack and Morelos who will make us a huge profit. Despite what people think he also managed to entice European Championship winner Bruno Alves. A bit like Warburton and his key midfield signing Kranjcar, Dorrans Pedro’s second highest purchase hardly played due to injury.

Where would we be if we hadn’t signed Lafferty, Sadiq, Coulibaly, Worrall, Ejaria, Grezda, Polster, Jones, Stewart, King, Hastie. What have we got in return from them ?
 
Given that the club was gutted, and was on life support for most of 2012, I was expecting about a decade. Pedro and the managerial sagas set us back a bit, but we are roughly where I thought we'd be at this point.
 
We were already on the slippery slope by appointing McCoist. He blew nearly half his transfer budget on Wallace when our current left back had been one of our most consistent performers for the previous 5 years or so.

He signed the likes of Ortiz, Bedoya, Celik and Matt McKay who despite being captain of Australia didn’t play him.

Did we not blow a 10 point or so lead that season when the players went from Smith’s to McCoist’s tactics.

Circumstances took over for the following season but instead of building foundations with youth he blew nearly a £1million on Templeton, signed the likes of Faure, Stella, Black, Argriou, Sandaza, Cribari, Mohsni, Peralta, Simonsen, Cammy Bell, Clark, Zaliukas, and Kris Boyd who scored 3 goals in over 30 championship games.

The money wasted in the years under McCoist was staggering and set us back ten fold anything Warburton or Pedro did.

We couldn’t even win the Ramsdens Cup ffs under McCoist.

Warburton took over with absolutely nothing. He done his job first time of asking and got us out the championship. Spending just over £1/2million, his second season signings were a joke however he left us with players that made us money. Waghorn, Windass. We should have made money on Wes but at least got our monies worth and some, same with Tav.

Warburton only spent around £2.5 million total, with Joey Garner accounting for half of that.

Pedro inherited Warburton’s second season shambles, but only spent just over £5million net. He brought us Candeias who we got our monies worth and some, Jack and Morelos who will make us a huge profit. Despite what people think he also managed to entice European Championship winner Bruno Alves. A bit like Warburton and his key midfield signing Kranjcar, Dorrans Pedro’s second highest purchase hardly played due to injury.

Where would we be if we hadn’t signed Lafferty, Sadiq, Coulibaly, Worrall, Ejaria, Grezda, Polster, Jones, Stewart, King, Hastie. What have we got in return from them ?
You are correct. McCoist was an abysmal manager, and did a ton of damage.
 
The recruitment since 2016 has been horrendous. I think that's more relevant to where we are on the pitch just now. You can see it on a bigger scale with Man Utd - if recruitment is that bad it will cripple your ability to be competitive.

Can you imagine where we might be if the money spent on Garner, Cardoso, Pena, Herrera, Grezda had been spent better?

If the contracts handed to Barton and Alves had been given to better bosmans?

We've seen very little return on Dorrans, Rossiter, Murphy etc.

Even the cheaper signings like Hodson, Jones, Barker all add up.

How many genuine successes have their really been? Morelos obviously, Jack on a fre was decent business. A lot of guys did us a turn but not much else, jury still out on an awful lot of them.

We've wasted millions on mediocre players. You just can't do that an expect to be succesful.
What on earth did you expect when the club had literally no scouting department between 2012 and 2017-18.
 
My thoughts at the time were 5-6 years and to be honest expected a big cup in the lower leagues. That was without the extra year down there.
 
We blew the Hibs cup final and this season’s league cup final.

Had we won against Hibs it might have made us improve quicker but we’ll never know.

How we never won the league cup is still a head scratcher.

Even though the winning goal was clearly offside we had enough chances to win about 6 finals.

Saddest thing of all is they aren’t a great team.
 
2012 was only the beginning of our woes.
Had the club fallen into decent respectable honest hands back then, our recovery would have begun immediately.
It didn't, instead, the club was infested by criminals.
Our recovery only really began when Dave KIng took over, but the harm and destruction that had been visited upon every facet of the club has taken so much time, money and effort to repair.
I never thought during those times as I lived through them that it would take so long, but as every layer of hindsight is visited, it becomes clearer as to why we have been so hobbled by a variety of misfortune much of it delivered through visceral hatred from others both in and out-with football.

However, we should know some other things.
When our house caught fire, the authorities immediately joined with our more obvious enemies and all of them conspired as one to throw as much fuel onto the flames as they were able to, much of it done under the rhetorical cloak of darkness, all of it meant to ensure obliteration and finality.
The lesson we must surely take from this is that we do not have sporting rivals in Scotland - only cultural enemies.
To learn this well and to note it as we go forward into the future will save us from a lot of missteps and much hardship.
Think the worst of these people because they only harbour the very worst for us.
 
I genuinely thot 5 years then after watching they 5 years I realised we might actually be fucked altogether, we are getting there just wish it happened quicker.
 
My thoughts at the time were 5-6 years and to be honest expected a big cup in the lower leagues. That was without the extra year down there.
The Motherwell playoff was a big blow which is now showing up as a bigger setback than we realised at the time. Depressing to think that we couldn't get out the 1st division at the first attempt.
 
I do think many of us on this thread are a bit revisionist in their comments as our comeback since 2012 has been filled with many twist and turns. We thought we had a billionaire with Whyte until he became a conman, we thought Green was the saviour until he wasn’t and when Ashley was involved many thought he would put money in rather than fleece the club to the point of extinction.

initially I thought we would jump back up the league in successive years and then it would be second season back in Premier league. As everything happened and you could see things were not as easy as first thought recovery hit further away.

when King and the 3 bears came in hope started to come again and again I thought we would quickly get back to normal but again we were thwarted when news about how deep Ashley had is infected roots into every fabric of club business.

this season would be the ground zero for me now but I’m not sure to what extent Covid-19 throws things off kilter. Once we have everything in our own control and are able to match Celtic on the value of our squad as money usually buys quality is when we will see recovery

for what it’s worth I think next season we will win a trophy and our first league championship again will be the season we mark our 150th year. Sadly I don’t think we will stop Celtic winning 10 unless when football commences our new talented director of football and our board can really up the quality of the squad with some big signings this year.

I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but I think we would have been much further ahead if we had taken the option of a real experienced guy like Neil Warnock when we went for Warburton and had stuck with him. I think the mini managerial merry go round has set us back and is perhaps the only mistake that King made.

it’s why I’m also keen to give Gerrard time and not chop and change again as I do think he has the “it” as a manage, it’s just a pity we didn’t get him after 3 years cutting his teeth elsewhere but after that I think he would have been beyond us.
 
Saddest thing of all is they aren’t a great team.
Kinda wish we would stop peddling this when they're on the precipice of 12 trophies in a row (albeit one of them wasn't won). Even at the height of Watty's powers this first and second times we never got to the stage of 2 or 3 trebles on the bounce. We would regularly go out of cup competitions to the likes of Hearts, Dundee United, Falkirk and Aberdeen. If we don't put that lot out a cup then sure as hell no diddy team will be.
 
For me the issue isn’t about recovering on the pitch now. We’ve almost done that.

The lasting damage of our collapse in 2012 that is now our biggest obstacle is the stranglehold the mentally challengeds have on the game off the field.

They control the SPFL and SFA at boardroom level. They control the sporting media and have them push every agenda. They control match officials through fear and intimidation.

In the last 12 years the filth have made Scottish football more about winning off the pitch than on the pitch.

Refereeing strikes, voting your main rivals out the league, campaigns to strip titles, media agendas to ruin our players, using peoples deaths to gain a sporting advantage and being handed trophies by rigged votes.

I really don’t know how we go about toppling the regime.
What a post and put much better than I could’ve
 
10 years to be back operating as a normal club, and dominating. Too many rats involved over the years though.

On the pitch we are gettinf there, off the pitch we are still a bit off, as the last two kit deals prove. I'm not dissing Castore, but no way we'd be entertaining them if we were sought after by large brands.
I'm optimistic and happy with the deal but it shows we are a bit behind.
 
With the corruption within the club that took place off the park and not seeming to be a long term plan coming up the lower leagues on the park I think this set us back big time. We took an extra year to reach the top league than I had anticipated which in hindsight was horrific. And in the year we finally got up with warburton we never improved and unfortunately on the other side they appointed Rodgers which took them further away from us. To then appoint Pedro and the disaster that followed again set us back further. If Gerrard can adapt his formation at times going forward I do feel he is the man to bring us success again. We can compete with them on the park whenever we play them now but we still lack that winning ugly mentality which is needed over course of a season.10 years could be about right taken everything into consideration which unfortunately might be to late for a lot of our support but is probably realistic. As my dad said to me other week there if Gerrard has 4 years at the club and wins the league in the 4th year it would be seen as a successful appointment to him although would be a year later than he would like.That would take us to the 10 year mark right enough.
 
I’m interested to know what the opinion of this board is on the timescales for recovery from 2012.

Back in 2012 it was clear to me things were bad and we were going to have a rough road ahead and I recall thinking that the three year European ban would be effectively a write-off in terms of any success (excluding lower leagues). I expected us to be back in the SPL for the 15/16 season and slowly challenging for the title over the next 2-3 seasons. Obviously I hoped for better, but was prepared for a scenario like this.

I’ll hold my hands up and admit I would never have thought we’d be staring at a full decade without a trophy if we do actually win something next season. In my opinion our recovery is slower than it should’ve been and we are still a few years away from taking our rightful place at the top of the game - and we should be there by now, IMO.

What were the expectations amongst the support?

If we had been ran for the benefit of the club then we would have won something by now.

You can pretty much write off the 3 years between 2012 and 2015 when we were being openly pillaged.

Add in the Caixinha debacle and here we are 8 trophyless years down the line.

I thought we would have won at least a Scottishor League Cup by now.
 
McCoist not getting us up first attempt was a year wasted and an error of the corrupt core not to sack him earlier for trying to keep fans on board by having a legend as a figurehead.

King not sacking Warburton when he got us promoted was another predictable mistake, and I’m sure king has said he had reservations about him.

the Pedro situation was a scandal and nobody head rolled on the back of that as far as we know.

3 years wasted. Stevie G should have had a trophy bu now and it’s a failure on his part they we don’t.

I always said they would win 9 but not 10 so I could be right but having not won a trophy we don’t what it takes to win silverware and winning the league becomes so much harder.

We should be at least 2 years further ahead imo and ardent due to managerial appointments which were predictable disasters.
 
D
Indeed, same for me.

If King and co hadn’t wrestled control from Ashley we’d be cannon fodder for decades.

we wouldn’t currently own Ibrox for a start, this would have been a sale a lease back and you can bet it would have been on favourable terms to a Spiv.
Stockbridge would still isint Rangers bank accounts to pay for his night with hookers in Glasgow hotels. Death by a thousand cuts.

The SFA actually did us a favour by deciding against Ashley when he was trying to increase his 9.9%.

Instead, we’re getting closer. On and off the pitch.

I'd actually forgotten about Ashley trying to increase his stake in 2014. A terrifying prospect. Doesn't really bear thinking about.
 
I rathe naively felt that when we beat Motherwell in the cup in 2012/13, that we would continue to challenge for trophies even as we climbed up the leagues. Sadly, we faced the perfect storm of:
1. Being taken over by asset strippers/criminals.
2. The initial illegal transfer embargo.
3. An SFA/SPL which was infiltrated by Celtic's placemen.
4. A media led onslaught against our tax affairs.
5. HMRC being intent on punishing Rangers as an 'example' to others. (How many others have since been penalised in the same way using the Rangers precedent? None, to the best of my knowledge).
6. Poor choice of managers. Love Ally, but worst possible manager for us, at that time. Was kept in place by Charles Green to sell season tickets and shares. Subsequent management appointments have been horrendous, McDowall, McCall, Warburton and Pedro.
7. Bouquet signings, none of which made the impact needed.
8. Celtic being guaranteed entry into the Champions league, just when the riches of that competition really became prominent.
9. The media scrutiny of all referees decisions (obviously only those which went against Celtic and in our favour). This has placed massive psychological pressure on referees, who are now too scared to give us any 50/50 decisions and to give any 50/50 decisions against them.
10. The Football tribunal referral system whereby we appear to be referred (and penalised) on a far greater basis than any other team.

Under Gerrard, we have closed the gap on them, and if the league was decided on matches between us and them, I would be quite confident, but given the size of their squad (funded by Champions League income), they will inevitably have the ability to call on better quality players than we can, particularly at the back end of the season.

I do have confidence in the current board and our new commercial director and think that we can get to a stable financial position, but in order for us to win a trophy in the next 2 seasons, will depend as much on Celtic downgrading, as it will on our own efforts. Maybe Dermot gets the jail for his money laundering, or Celtic are finally held accountable for their heinous CSA and continual/ongoing cover ups.
 
If you had told me that we would be in the last 16 of the Europa league in 8 years I would have been gobsmacked
 
Realisitcally some of the guys we have shifted this last two years have been chomping on Gerrards budget, and delivering very little. I know not every transfer can be a successful one, but when you are looking for a bounce back you need more hits than misses.
If i ignore signings in the lower leagues - which were a means to getting up, then just off the top of my head i can get an XI that were either bought for £1m+, or came in with steep wages (or unfortunately both), and resulted in either contract termination costs or zero transfer cash return when they left. Its why the footballing side needed to be totally revamped, and i think the delay in doing that is what ultimately cost us time down the road.

The WTF XI

Jak Alnwick (Harsh but i needed a keeper)

Senderos
Alves
Cardoso

Barton
Pena
Rossiter
O'Halloran
Dorrans

Herrera
Garner

and thats ignoring all the roasters who should never have been anywhere near a rangers shirt like dalcio, Sadiq,
 
At the time I said to my son it could take us 10 years to be back winning the league again.

Then we had even more disruption from the likes of Ashley and co.

We are on the right road at the moment but the poets are still well in front with spending power and have the authorities in their back pocket.

We are still right up against it.
 
Being honest. I reckoned about 8 years.
Half of them getting back to the Top league and then establish again in the league before a final push to win the title

We are now at that point
 
Realistically 10 years from 2012. I did think Celtic would get 10iar, but I seriously never expected them to be on their fourth treble in a row by now. Thought they would have got beat in the Scottish Cup or League Cup at some point.
 
I'll have to say I misjudged it completely and buried my head in the sand.

Seen us taking the 3 years to get back up then a couple to regain the top spot.

We are on the right course now although when you look at the corruption we face we don't have any room for error.
 
We should have won 2 cups by now, blew it against the spoon burners & the mhanks in the league cup. The appointment of pedro set us back financially & on the playing field as well, we would have been in a much better place without that debacle. For the first time in years i have faith in the people in charge. Onwards & upwards
 
So you wrote off 10 years as barren? Not expected to lift a trophy until 2021 or 2022?
I did as well. I was privy to what was happening within the club at that time (not spivs stealing just the whole infrastructure and player scale back at every level). It was inconceivable to me with everything that needed to change, that we’d be seriously challenging inside 10 years. I recall posting to that effect back then. I think with the efforts of the Three Bears we are possibly a year or two ahead of schedule.
 
We blew the Hibs cup final and this season’s league cup final.

Had we won against Hibs it might have made us improve quicker but we’ll never know.

How we never won the league cup is still a head scratcher.

Even though the winning goal was clearly offside we had enough chances to win about 6 finals.

Saddest thing of all is they aren’t a great team.
The thing is they seem to either splash the cash( on Rodgers) or find another gear when we get close. I wouldn't be surprised if next season's CL cash goes on a high profile signing just to keep us at bay.
 
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