How many of Advocaat's signing were a complete success?

Arminius

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Really good thread, this. Some very interesting discussions.

All I will say is that I can't agree that Numan was anything other than a complete success for us, and a fabulous servant of the club then and since.

I absolutely love that guy :D
 

Fife Bear

Active Member
If a was to rate all Advocaat signings out of ten against the outlay for them it would be

Numan 7-big transfer fee, high wages but good player
Amato 5- Garbage, got most of our money back
Van Bronckhorst 10-outstanding
Kanchelskis 3- 2 decent seasons for £5.5m and 35 grand a week
charbonnier 3- Never played much
Wallace 9- Bargain
Prodan 0- Never played once
Hendry 3- Past it
Guivarc'h 5- dud
McCann 7- decent
Klos 7- great but was being paid more than Beckham
Feeney 0- who?
Moore 7- decent
Reyna 8- good, made profit
Mols 6- brilliant but got injured, never same player after
Dodds 6-ok
Tugay 6- was better at blackburn
Johnston 4-poor
Ritchie 3-never played, made small profit
Lovenkrands 7- pretty garbage, didn't cost a lot though
Miller 6- alright
Reid 1- who?
Konterman 2- bombscare
Ricksen 7- decent
De Boer 7- brilliant but had dodgy knee, high fee and wages
Christiansen 2- dud
Flo 5- decent but poor scoring record in big games. £6m loss
Kaupilla 1- hardly played
Gayle 1- useless
Fernandes 4- one wonder goal against motherwell
Nerlinger 3- decent pedigree but past it, done nothing
Caniggia 8- good
Ball 3- serious injury and garbage
Arveladze 7- decent
 
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S English

Well-Known Member
Reyna was sold for considerably more than we paid for him. Moore was sold to Palace but returned when they couldn’t keep up the payments.

Aside from any financial implications both players were excellent for us although personally I wouldn’t have let Moore back through the marble halls when he jibbed off our biggest game of the season for the Olympics.

For me a significant factor in our dramatic decline in 00/01 was Moore’s season-long absence obvs combined with persisting with Big Bert at CH
Reyna was only here 2 years and never a player I seen on the team sheet and got excited, Moore similarly never got me excited when named in the starting line up
 

TheRational1

Active Member
We've had some class players who have done well for us bu we've hardly made money/made decent sales. Ferguson, Jelavic...
 

S English

Well-Known Member
Ok dude I was exaggerating a bit, you don't have to make a profit on all players. The point I was trying to make was the likes of Numan and De Boer, fantastic players but the fact they got nothing back on them means they can't be considered complete successes. Not their fault obv but the business plan was horrendous.
I think you're mixing up a player success v a club success
We may have different takes on the definition of the word complete.

And yours is wrong.
We obviously do, did he pump your Mrs or something ?
 

MMols99

Well-Known Member
There was a near ruinous waste of money under Advocaat, but few complete failures.

I'd really only say Ball, Guivarc'h, Konterman and Prodan could be viewed as such - £15m for very little in return.

I think it's also fair to say the likes of Hendry, Amato and Flo didn't really deliver value for money, maybe Kanchelskis too to some extent, but they all played more of a part so it's difficult to be as critical of them.

What's undeniable is that for the money we spent we really should have fared better in Europe.

At the time we were more accepting of it because our performances felt like a huge step up from the pitiful attempts of Smith's latter continental forays, but in hindsight two CL group stage qualifications in three seasons was scant return for the huge outlay we made on that squad.
A lot of people call flo a big flop but did he no actually score 25 goals in his first season with us? I agree with you that he wasn't as good as the fee we paid for him though
 

Ubik

Well-Known Member
Kanchelskis was just too much money for what we got. He was good.
Ditto Colin Hendry. We got a good season out of him. Too expensive.
Fernandes was worth it for his first second goal at Motherwell alone.
Marcus Gayle we got our money back on.
Latapy wasn't terrible for a free.
Some horrible misses in there.
marcus gayle interview as he signed 'put me in the box and i will win every header' Advocaat plays him on the left on his debut.
 

squaddie-bear

Well-Known Member
Lovenkrands had a good scoring record against Celtic and turned in some excellent performances on European nights.

Scored a last min Cup Final winner.

Scored the goal that took us out of CL group stages for the only time.

Not sure what you’re not liking
I thought that was McCormack, scored against porto? Have i got my players/games confused?
 

HandsomeHead

Well-Known Member
A lot of people call flo a big flop but did he no actually score 25 goals in his first season with us? I agree with you that he wasn't as good as the fee we paid for him though
I think we initially offered something like £7m for Flo, which felt about right to me.

Bates saw Murray coming though and taunted him that he couldn’t afford the player causing Flim Flam to bust the bank to show him a thing or two.

Flo was decent, but even for £7m I’d still have expected more.

We got £6.75m back for him, so we made a loss of £5.25m which, Ball aside, I think makes him the single biggest loss we’ve ever made on any player.

We were looking for a top drawer striker to be the final piece in the jigsaw, but no matter what the price was, I don’t think Flo was that guy.
 

Crouchy

Well-Known Member
It’s a strange thought and hindsight is a wonderful thing, but imagine Hartson and Mols in that 4-4-2 shape we deployed.

McCann wide left, Reyna tight on the right.

Can’t help but think it might have been the missing piece.
 

Crouchy

Well-Known Member
I don't know about "complete" successes but I'm shocked at folk saying Lovenkrands was garbage! Tugay as well. I thought he was a fantastic player for us. My memory must be shot.
Lovenkrands has that touch of Lafferty.

We all remember the big goals in big games, yet forget, 80% of the time, his fault or otherwise, he was poor.
 

JimmysGers

Well-Known Member
A ‘complete’ success would include anyone who performed to an acceptable standard for a number of years, or played a major role in us winning silverware. Transfer fee definitely plays a part.

Numan and Lovenkrands are both absolutely included.

Tugay wasn’t with us for long enough.
 

Tugay83

Well-Known Member
Can't disagree much with the OPs assessment of the signings but I would point out not all of them were players Advocaat personally wanted or identified.

As a more general point about signings in that era, and the 9IAR before it, we largely got terrible value for money and underperformed chronically in Europe. Multiply each fee by between between 4 to 8 and you are getting the modern day equivalent of the money we spent under Smith and Advocaat.
 
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Unicorn

Well-Known Member
Being honest, if it wasn’t for Helicopter Sunday and outscoring them on the last day of the 02/03 season then our record since 2000 would look pretty grim. It just underlines what a remarkable job Smith did after his return.

As for Advocaat his first 2 years were great and any wasted outlay could be forgiven (Guivarc’h, Kanchelskis, Hendry, etc) but the last year and a half was a complete cluster fùck of desperate signings and dressing room cliques which makes it difficult to look back at his tenure as a whole with much fondness.
 

rez1872

Well-Known Member
We overpaid for a lot of guys or signed people with no hope of a resale value.

It was short term thinking but for 2 seasons it was some of the most exciting football I’ve ever seen.
 

AllanD

Well-Known Member
For a player to be a complete success then he has to do well then sell him on for profit. Only Van Bronckhorst and Reyna spring to mind.
So Rod Wallace wasn't a complete success, ditto Klos or even Laudrup, Christ, Ally McCoist wasn't a complete success either, nor Goram and numerous others going by your weird logic. You're talking shite here. I'd even class Caniggia as a success who should have been kept on for longer.
 
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Danger Zone

Well-Known Member
£4.3m for Konterman still makes me shudder. Likewise £6.5m for Ball though he had his share of bad luck too.

But by and large that’s quality list of players.
 

tazzabear

Well-Known Member
Lovenkrands has that touch of Lafferty.

We all remember the big goals in big games, yet forget, 80% of the time, his fault or otherwise, he was poor.
Probably a simple answer.
Like the problems we face today with teams parking their fleet of buses, we faced similar deep defending in PL’s day.
Especially at Ibrox in league games.
Lovenkrands’ qualities didn’t always come to the fore in these games but in the more open European games or against the scum, he was more productive.
 

Surge

New Member
When you look at the timing and money spent, he was heavily bankrolled when he came in and Advocaat essentially had his team built in this first season. If you asked me to name the classic Advocaat years line-up I would probably say something like

Klos
Porrini Amo Moore Numan
Reyna Gio Albertz McCann
Wallace Mols/Dodds

or something similar.

All of those arrived before or during his first season. He didn't spend much in his second season then seemed to completely lose his mind spending 30 or 40 million trying to improve on a team that was maybe the best team I've seen in 40 years of watching Rangers. I don't know if it was his ego telling him a European trophy was in reach or that nagging doubt that a top-class striker would put us on another level.

When you look at his signings, he pretty much spent big money on a centre forward every 6 months he was here (Amato, then Guivarc'h, then Mols, then Miller then Flo, then Shota) and never found one that held onto the centre forward shirt for more than a few months at a time.

On a side note, if you take the money that we got back on them into account to give a net transfer fee, Flo and Kanchelskis were pretty close in terms of money down the pan and I would argue that Kanchelskis delivered far less on the field and should be held up as just as much of a financially disastrous signing as Flo. (Ball would be a decent shout too).
 

Tugay83

Well-Known Member
A lot of people call flo a big flop but did he no actually score 25 goals in his first season with us? I agree with you that he wasn't as good as the fee we paid for him though
Wouldn't argue that 25 goals is a decent return. But a good signing isn't punted 18 months later for half of what you paid for him with a collective shrug from the fan base at the time.
 

stonewall Jackson

Well-Known Member
I agree.

Still wasn't worth £5.5m. We should / could have got someone for half that money to do the same job.

I did a similar thing to the OP a few years back and I reckon that I thought about a 1/3rd of Advocaats signings were both good and value for money.

Kanchelskis isn't in that category. He only fits one of them.

Flo is similar in that sense. He wasn't a bad player at all. Just wasn't worth that fee.

One's like Myhre weren't a waste of a transfer fee but weren't good sigings either.

The likes of Christiansen were both a waste of money and rotten too.

Overall, Advocaat's signings were about a 4/10 and his tenure wasn't much better overall. For all the very high highs, he failed in really making us reach the next step in Europe (despite dragging us way up from where Smith had us in that field)

He spent £90m and about six players were both very good and worth their fee. That's a shit show overall to win the SPL twice.
4/10 overall is very harsh considering we were watching some of the best football played in a Rangers jersey. The wheels came off when Advocatt decided skill alone could overcome brawn / excellent man management skills of the O'Neill era.
 

DylanGer

Well-Known Member
The debate has been done before but I never thought Numan was absolutely top drawer nor really shone when it mattered. When Advocaat's team started to crumble Numan certainly never rose as a solid pillar and I think his desire to walk away from the game merely reflected a player who whilst obviously talented didn't have that extra factor/desire to cement his talent.
 

GeeGee

Well-Known Member
Ball, Kanchelskis and Konterman were poor signings for different reasons considering money spent (including wages) for what they gave us.

Numan I thought didn’t really get the momentum going to show us the world class player he’d been in a PSV and Holland jersey.

GVB was a great signing. So was Reyna and Wallace.

Hendry arrived a couple of seasons too late.

Guivarche - I’ve never seen a player so underwhelmed to be signing for us.
 

BlueSevenTwo

Well-Known Member
Ball, Kanchelskis and Konterman were poor signings for different reasons considering money spent (including wages) for what they gave us.

Numan I thought didn’t really get the momentum going to show us the world class player he’d been in a PSV and Holland jersey.

GVB was a great signing. So was Reyna and Wallace.

Hendry arrived a couple of seasons too late.

Guivarche - I’ve never seen a player so underwhelmed to be signing for us.
Konterman was worth it foot THAT goal.
 

Marstonbear

Well-Known Member
The debate has been done before but I never thought Numan was absolutely top drawer nor really shone when it mattered. When Advocaat's team started to crumble Numan certainly never rose as a solid pillar and I think his desire to walk away from the game merely reflected a player who whilst obviously talented didn't have that extra factor/desire to cement his talent.
From memory I believe Numan was settled in Scotland but felt Rangers offer to him in 2003 was derisory. It wasn’t that he needed the extra cash more a point of principal
 

DylanGer

Well-Known Member
Advocaat's signings crumbled badly on the dutch duo of Konterman/Ricksen that season both were shoe horned into the team when the squad was massive and could have sustained a more gradual integration. Ricksen played his best 18 months under Big Eck when he effectively was off the booze and that either game him confidence or made the difference to be really effective (obviously he changed position as well). Fernando clearly had the talent for the modern game but probably lacked the application. Big Bert was simply not suited to Scottish Football.

It was catch up from them and the second season was a car crash of injuries.

We clearly made some unprofessional signings that eclipsed the normal gamble aspect in Ball and Prodan. De Boer I heard at the time was signed knowing his knee was weak which again could be classed as irresponsible albeit you balance that out with the fact he was a rolls royce of a player.

Murray sure did like a gamble and as we know in true bitter terms and I do not think him and Advocaat were a good combo...enough confidence/arrogance to sink an air craft carrier.
 

Marstonbear

Well-Known Member
Konterman was the single biggest factor in the crumbling of Dick’s empire. A blind man could see he was struggling, Bert didn’t help himself by continually talking to the media (my mum taught me to tackle being one such story). Had Souness been in charge, Bert would have been out the door after the 6-2 game.

By sticking by him, Dick started the split in the dressing room, his comment after a defeat at St Johnstone “players more interested in going on their computers” intensified it and led to some players like Gio taking forever to declare themselves fit
 
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