How many of Advocaat's signing were a complete success?

Being honest, if it wasn’t for Helicopter Sunday and outscoring them on the last day of the 02/03 season then our record since 2000 would look pretty grim. It just underlines what a remarkable job Smith did after his return.

As for Advocaat his first 2 years were great and any wasted outlay could be forgiven (Guivarc’h, Kanchelskis, Hendry, etc) but the last year and a half was a complete cluster fùck of desperate signings and dressing room cliques which makes it difficult to look back at his tenure as a whole with much fondness.
 
We overpaid for a lot of guys or signed people with no hope of a resale value.

It was short term thinking but for 2 seasons it was some of the most exciting football I’ve ever seen.
 
For a player to be a complete success then he has to do well then sell him on for profit. Only Van Bronckhorst and Reyna spring to mind.
So Rod Wallace wasn't a complete success, ditto Klos or even Laudrup, Christ, Ally McCoist wasn't a complete success either, nor Goram and numerous others going by your weird logic. You're talking shite here. I'd even class Caniggia as a success who should have been kept on for longer.
 
Last edited:
£4.3m for Konterman still makes me shudder. Likewise £6.5m for Ball though he had his share of bad luck too.

But by and large that’s quality list of players.
 
Lovenkrands has that touch of Lafferty.

We all remember the big goals in big games, yet forget, 80% of the time, his fault or otherwise, he was poor.
Probably a simple answer.
Like the problems we face today with teams parking their fleet of buses, we faced similar deep defending in PL’s day.
Especially at Ibrox in league games.
Lovenkrands’ qualities didn’t always come to the fore in these games but in the more open European games or against the scum, he was more productive.
 
When you look at the timing and money spent, he was heavily bankrolled when he came in and Advocaat essentially had his team built in this first season. If you asked me to name the classic Advocaat years line-up I would probably say something like

Klos
Porrini Amo Moore Numan
Reyna Gio Albertz McCann
Wallace Mols/Dodds

or something similar.

All of those arrived before or during his first season. He didn't spend much in his second season then seemed to completely lose his mind spending 30 or 40 million trying to improve on a team that was maybe the best team I've seen in 40 years of watching Rangers. I don't know if it was his ego telling him a European trophy was in reach or that nagging doubt that a top-class striker would put us on another level.

When you look at his signings, he pretty much spent big money on a centre forward every 6 months he was here (Amato, then Guivarc'h, then Mols, then Miller then Flo, then Shota) and never found one that held onto the centre forward shirt for more than a few months at a time.

On a side note, if you take the money that we got back on them into account to give a net transfer fee, Flo and Kanchelskis were pretty close in terms of money down the pan and I would argue that Kanchelskis delivered far less on the field and should be held up as just as much of a financially disastrous signing as Flo. (Ball would be a decent shout too).
 
A lot of people call flo a big flop but did he no actually score 25 goals in his first season with us? I agree with you that he wasn't as good as the fee we paid for him though

Wouldn't argue that 25 goals is a decent return. But a good signing isn't punted 18 months later for half of what you paid for him with a collective shrug from the fan base at the time.
 
He started out wide. I think he was so bad at most things he needed to be up front or he'd just be a hindrance to the team.
Fair enough, I thought it was McLeish that did that. Still think he was good, but then I hated Moore, so we all have different opinions.
 
I agree.

Still wasn't worth £5.5m. We should / could have got someone for half that money to do the same job.

I did a similar thing to the OP a few years back and I reckon that I thought about a 1/3rd of Advocaats signings were both good and value for money.

Kanchelskis isn't in that category. He only fits one of them.

Flo is similar in that sense. He wasn't a bad player at all. Just wasn't worth that fee.

One's like Myhre weren't a waste of a transfer fee but weren't good sigings either.

The likes of Christiansen were both a waste of money and rotten too.

Overall, Advocaat's signings were about a 4/10 and his tenure wasn't much better overall. For all the very high highs, he failed in really making us reach the next step in Europe (despite dragging us way up from where Smith had us in that field)

He spent £90m and about six players were both very good and worth their fee. That's a shit show overall to win the SPL twice.
4/10 overall is very harsh considering we were watching some of the best football played in a Rangers jersey. The wheels came off when Advocatt decided skill alone could overcome brawn / excellent man management skills of the O'Neill era.
 
The debate has been done before but I never thought Numan was absolutely top drawer nor really shone when it mattered. When Advocaat's team started to crumble Numan certainly never rose as a solid pillar and I think his desire to walk away from the game merely reflected a player who whilst obviously talented didn't have that extra factor/desire to cement his talent.
 
Ball, Kanchelskis and Konterman were poor signings for different reasons considering money spent (including wages) for what they gave us.

Numan I thought didn’t really get the momentum going to show us the world class player he’d been in a PSV and Holland jersey.

GVB was a great signing. So was Reyna and Wallace.

Hendry arrived a couple of seasons too late.

Guivarche - I’ve never seen a player so underwhelmed to be signing for us.
 
Ball, Kanchelskis and Konterman were poor signings for different reasons considering money spent (including wages) for what they gave us.

Numan I thought didn’t really get the momentum going to show us the world class player he’d been in a PSV and Holland jersey.

GVB was a great signing. So was Reyna and Wallace.

Hendry arrived a couple of seasons too late.

Guivarche - I’ve never seen a player so underwhelmed to be signing for us.
Konterman was worth it foot THAT goal.
 
The debate has been done before but I never thought Numan was absolutely top drawer nor really shone when it mattered. When Advocaat's team started to crumble Numan certainly never rose as a solid pillar and I think his desire to walk away from the game merely reflected a player who whilst obviously talented didn't have that extra factor/desire to cement his talent.
From memory I believe Numan was settled in Scotland but felt Rangers offer to him in 2003 was derisory. It wasn’t that he needed the extra cash more a point of principal
 
Advocaat's signings crumbled badly on the dutch duo of Konterman/Ricksen that season both were shoe horned into the team when the squad was massive and could have sustained a more gradual integration. Ricksen played his best 18 months under Big Eck when he effectively was off the booze and that either game him confidence or made the difference to be really effective (obviously he changed position as well). Fernando clearly had the talent for the modern game but probably lacked the application. Big Bert was simply not suited to Scottish Football.

It was catch up from them and the second season was a car crash of injuries.

We clearly made some unprofessional signings that eclipsed the normal gamble aspect in Ball and Prodan. De Boer I heard at the time was signed knowing his knee was weak which again could be classed as irresponsible albeit you balance that out with the fact he was a rolls royce of a player.

Murray sure did like a gamble and as we know in true bitter terms and I do not think him and Advocaat were a good combo...enough confidence/arrogance to sink an air craft carrier.
 
Konterman was the single biggest factor in the crumbling of Dick’s empire. A blind man could see he was struggling, Bert didn’t help himself by continually talking to the media (my mum taught me to tackle being one such story). Had Souness been in charge, Bert would have been out the door after the 6-2 game.

By sticking by him, Dick started the split in the dressing room, his comment after a defeat at St Johnstone “players more interested in going on their computers” intensified it and led to some players like Gio taking forever to declare themselves fit
 
From memory I believe Numan was settled in Scotland but felt Rangers offer to him in 2003 was derisory. It wasn’t that he needed the extra cash more a point of principal

And he could have went and played elsewhere.

Considering his pedigree he didn't really deliver at Rangers as he should have.

He was a player who split opinion.
 
And he could have went and played elsewhere.

Considering his pedigree he didn't really deliver at Rangers as he should have.

He was a player who split opinion.
He was offered a deal at Rangers which represented an 80% wage cut. I don’t think he wanted to play for anyone else
 
Konterman was the single biggest factor in the crumbling of Dick’s empire. A blind man could see he was struggling, Bert didn’t help himself by continually talking to the media (my mum taught me to tackle being one such story). Had Souness been in charge, Bert would have been out the door after the 6-2 game.

By sticking by him, Dick started the split in the dressing room, his comment after a defeat at St Johnstone “players more interested in going on their computers” intensified it and led to some players like Gio taking forever to declare themselves fit

Ricksen was pulled what 30 mins into the same game....? I was there and Fernando early doors was overwhelmed with the gig at Rangers.
They were equally bad initially but Fernando at least went on to be excellent for a period.

There's no doubt DA's squad had a mass of egos and he struggled to control them but he was a single minded guy. DA was fantastic when he was cruising but he was arrogant to Celtic's emergence and he stupidly believed we were better...maybe on paper but not in the Scottish league.
 
He actually won one more irc.

Big Eck really doesn't get the credit he deserves because some of the support prefer to focus on the dire end to his team rather than the fact he stopped Celtic being a runaway train.

A treble and two doubles he won. Not only did he stop Celtic hoovering up everything but he galvanised a squad who had just stopped playing for Advocaat.

I think he suffers because there was never any middle ground in his tenure, it was either wonderful highs or truly awful lows. Sometimes both in the same season, like his last one. People can focus on whichever one suits them.
 
He was offered a deal at Rangers which represented an 80% wage cut. I don’t think he wanted to play for anyone else

It's a good story to believe if you want to buy into it-I don't. Ultimately though most players at the very top will play on. He chose not to...he wasn't a player I'd want to be in the team if we were having to dig it out.....
 
I happened to skim through a very Celtic-minded article recently about Martin O'Neill's time there, and how they've more or less dominated ever since. Their train of thought was that, excluding the Mowbray season, all our title wins have been won on the last day. We were obviously good in those seasons, but Celtic weren't far away. Just not quite good enough of course ;)

They claim O'Neill's tenure finally changed the mindset of a losing club. He made some pretty decent signings. Sutton, Lennon, Thompson, Valgaeren, Agathe and later Hartson and Balde were all pretty successful you'd have to say. They all stuck around for years. You can chuck Rab Douglas in as well I suppose, despite him giving us our own good memories. Keeping Larsson fit obviously helped.

Anyway, that's more than enough about them. It brings me Advocaat and the money spent. I'm sure the discussion has already been had on the various podcasts etc. these days. Just how many of his signings were out-and-out successes? I know we had to replace an ageing squad but the money could have been spent far more wisely. Was the scatter-gun approach necessary?

Nj3wmHz.png


Numan, Gio, Wallace, McCann, Klos, Reyna - absolutely. I'll reluctantly give him Moore. Was Kanchelskis really worth the money?

ye2NLbw.png


Mols, of course. Dodds probably. Not sure Tugay can be classed as a complete success.

9I0VKAj.png


Lovenkrands and Ricksen through McLeish, yes. De Boer. Flo's fee will always go against him.

Bp0PS4F.png


Caniggia and Arveladze, yes. Difficult to include Ball given the fee.

14 players and I'd say that's being generous. How much money spent?
Why reluctantly re Moore?I thought he was a good player for us,in several positions.admittedly blotted his copy book with the Olympic scenario,but overall a good player.
 
Why reluctantly re Moore?I thought he was a good player for us,in several positions.admittedly blotted his copy book with the Olympic scenario,but overall a good player.
We’ve been through this.

If Advocaat had actually signed him, he’d have definitely made the list.
 
Great thread.

Very harsh not to consider Tugay a success. He was good for us when he played and we got our money back on him.
 
4/10 overall is very harsh considering we were watching some of the best football played in a Rangers jersey. The wheels came off when Advocatt decided skill alone could overcome brawn / excellent man management skills of the O'Neill era.

Hmm, I'm not sure. The least I'd have expected for the money spent is to be watching good football in the SPL.

I think people forget just how much waste there was, even in the first two years, among the success and that's before we get to the summer of 2000 and the utter shit show that followed that for the 2 SPL seasons where we were as bad as we'd been pre Souness.

McLeish gets heavy heavy abuse for his failures (rightly so) as Rangers manager yet he won the same number of leagues as DA (even if they were last day victories and one of them very lucky indeed) plus a similar level of cups and actually managed to get out of the CL groups too whereas everyone seems willing to forget Advocaats issues due to the highs we had with him.

I bet if you asked people to rank both managers out of 10 at Rangers, everyone would say Dicks rating was higher. I'm not so sure that should be the case especially when you consider the money spunked during his 3.5 years and what was achieved.
 
Last edited:
I was an Advocaat fan at one time but I don't think history has been kind to him.

He and Murray were a terrible combination. Both similar personalities and prone to hubris. He was over-indulged by a chairman who lost the plot after persuading ENIC to invest £40m in 1997. Thereafter, he believed he could always convince someone to bail him out.

The transfer strategy was all over the place.

O'Neill did build a decent team very quickly. All of his big signings in 2000 hit the ground running. Combinbed with Advocaat losing the dressing room and Larsson emerging as a real star and it was a perfect storm in many ways.
 
It is amazing how we all see things differently. I am fond of Advocaat I must admit. I also thought Numan was good but I have said before although a season ticket holder of 30+ years you certainly wouldn't employ me as a scout or seek tactical advice from me.
 
It is amazing how we all see things differently. I am fond of Advocaat I must admit. I also thought Numan was good but I have said before although a season ticket holder of 30+ years you certainly wouldn't employ me as a scout or seek tactical advice from me.

Numan was the best left back we've had since Eric Caldow.
 
Konterman was the single biggest factor in the crumbling of Dick’s empire. A blind man could see he was struggling, Bert didn’t help himself by continually talking to the media (my mum taught me to tackle being one such story). Had Souness been in charge, Bert would have been out the door after the 6-2 game.

By sticking by him, Dick started the split in the dressing room, his comment after a defeat at St Johnstone “players more interested in going on their computers” intensified it and led to some players like Gio taking forever to declare themselves fit

I always felt the signings of Konterman and Ricksen were a case of right idea, wrong guys.

Two Dutch internationals to replace an ageing right back in Porrini and a captain who was always capable of bewildering and costly brain farts?

On paper it looked sound to me, in practice it was a disaster.

Then you add Moore getting a season long injury in our very first game which necessitated the retrieval of Amoruso from the bench, a guy Advocaat had stripped of the captaincy and was trying to punt all summer long and a young Ricksen looking utterly paralysed at right back and our defence just fell apart.

Numan was also injured for long spells I seem to remember so the bedrock of success from the previous two years disintegrated and everything else fell down around it.

It was as spectacular and unexpected a collapse as I’ve ever seen given how imperious we’d looked at the end of the previous season.
 
I always felt the signings of Konterman and Ricksen were a case of right idea, wrong guys.

Two Dutch internationals to replace an ageing right back in Porrini and a captain who was always capable of bewildering and costly brain farts?

On paper it looked sound to me, in practice it was a disaster.

Then you add Moore getting a season long injury in our very first game which necessitated the retrieval of Amoruso from the bench, a guy Advocaat had stripped of the captaincy and was trying to punt all summer long and a young Ricksen looking utterly paralysed at right back and our defence just fell apart.

Numan was also injured for long spells I seem to remember so the bedrock of success from the previous two years disintegrated and everything else fell down around it.

It was as spectacular and unexpected a collapse as I’ve ever seen given how imperious we’d looked at the end of the previous season.

I've always wondered how different it would've been had Kevin Hofland said yes to us and no to PSV that summer of 2000. We wined and dined him at a home game near the end of the 99/00 season and it looked at one point he was ours.

Advocaat wanted him as the long term left sided centre back. Would him and Moore have been the preferred partnership ? Would Konterman never have been signed ?
 
A Dutch-based Rangers fan on the old Rangers mailing list warned us about Konterman in 2000. Said the Feyenoord fans in work couldn't believe their luck they'd manage to sell him. And this was before he'd even played for us!
 
I've always wondered how different it would've been had Kevin Hofland said yes to us and no to PSV that summer of 2000. We wined and dined him at a home game near the end of the 99/00 season and it looked at one point he was ours.

Advocaat wanted him as the long term left sided centre back. Would him and Moore have been the preferred partnership ? Would Konterman never have been signed ?

I remember watching Konterman for Feyenoord against Chelsea in the CL the previous season and thinking he looked awful.

When we were then linked with him I was a little unsure. That big guy, really? But Wee Dick's track record with Dutch players had been great so the belief amongst most was that he knew what he was doing.

Hofland surely couldn't have been any worse.
 
Getting Klos for under £1m is a ridiculous bit of business.

Mad seeing us signing players from top clubs - pipe dream these days.

FWIW I think Flo gets a hard time of it across the board. I know he cost £12m, but his goal return was actually pretty good and didn't we sell him for £8/9m?

Was it O'Neill who paid £5m for Scheidt?

We wanted a marquee striker, someone to take us to the next level. We were close to Tamudo, Kovacivic, and Mpenza. We ended up with Flo — a guy who was piss poor when it mattered. That he wasn't even making Old Firm XI's said it all, really. God knows how much he was on.

A dreadful signing in every single way. It's absolutely bonkers patter to say he was a good signing.
 
We wanted a marquee striker, someone to take us to the next level. We were close to Tamudo, Kovacivic, and Mpenza. We ended up with Flo — a guy who was piss poor when it mattered. That he wasn't even making Old Firm XI's said it all, really. God knows how much he was on.

A dreadful signing in every single way. It's absolutely bonkers patter to say he was a good signing.

Shabani Nonda, Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, Matt Jansen, Hartson & Diego Tristan were the other names we were after in 2000.

The other one I'm sure we were linked was Luc Nilis when he left PSV on a Bosman that year but he chose Villa because he wanted to play in the EPL
 
I would break it down as follows:

Bargains:
Wallace, Klos, McCann, Reyna, Moore, Arveladze, Lovenkrands & Cannigia. (£9.95m total)

Decent money paid for good players:
Numan, Gio, Mols, Ricksen & De Boer. (£21.6m total)

Overpriced players who were underwhelming:
Kanchelskis, Hendry, Flo & Ball. (£28m total)

Expensive Failures:
Guivarch'h, Prodan, Konterman. (£10m total)

Players who could have been good servants but their Rangers careers never took off:
Charbonnier, Amato, Tugay, Miller. (£8.6m total)

The rest were just squad fillers.
 
I would break it down as follows:

Bargains:
Wallace, Klos, McCann, Reyna, Moore, Arveladze, Lovenkrands & Cannigia. (£9.95m total)

Decent money paid for good players:
Numan, Gio, Mols, Ricksen & De Boer. (£21.6m total)

Overpriced players who were underwhelming:
Kanchelskis, Hendry, Flo & Ball. (£28m total)

Expensive Failures:
Guivarch'h, Prodan, Konterman. (£10m total)

Players who could have been good servants but their Rangers careers never took off:
Charbonnier, Amato, Tugay, Miller. (£8.6m total)

The rest were just squad fillers.

I think that's a pretty spot on summation. I'd move Ricksen down to one of the two categories below, bit apart from that can't argue with it.

Some of the other points raised: July 1st 2000 must be one of the biggest infield turning points we've ever had when we signed Kontermam and Ricksen. Advocaat paying big money them forcing two completely inadequate players into a successful team week after week is what I blame for the implosion of the Advocaat years. At the end of the 2000 season we were watching us put 4 past Celtic at a sun-drenched Ibrox for a 2nd time that season. We had outplayed the likes of Parma, Bayern, Dortmund and PSV in Europe. I would never in a million years of thought that we would getting hammered 6-2 the next time we saw an old firm game and see the whole lot come crashing down. Those signings and Advocaat's stubbornness around playing them was the #1 reason in my mind.

Hartson failing his medical at Ibrox is another moment when you wonder what would have happened to the relative fortunes of us and them if he had passed it.
 
Back
Top