How old is old enough?

J

Johnny.mcb

Well-Known Member
Posted in another thread but general question on this. Derek johnstone scored a cup final winner aged 16. Pele scored in a World Cup final aged 17.

Lowry is 19 soon. What’s this over protective need we seem to have about young players? It’s a nonsense to me. Big Hateley said in his book if you want to be a really top player you should be playing regular first team football by that age.

We have a young midfielder who looks to me a cross between big Rabiot at PSG and wee Modric and yet still people want him put back in the B team to play clachnacuddin rovers because he’s not 21 and 14 stone yet. Mental.

I’m not saying start him every week or putting any pressure on him, it’s simply a case of players surely if 18 or over it can’t do any harm to get them into the first team environment and yes actually play some matches.
 
Don't think age should be a defining factor here, as the old saying goes, 'if you're good enough, you're old enough'. Only slight concern with Lowry at this stage is getting battered by the jobbers, he still has a bit of filling out to do, but his mentality seems to be spot on. DJ was a beast at 16, a bit like Rooney when he made his Everton debut. I think both were born with a 5 o'clock shadow :D .
 
If they are ready to contribute, which is a decision none of us on here are really qualified to make - I trust the guys involved to do that.
 
Johnny.mcb said:
Posted in another thread but general question on this. Derek johnstone scored a cup final winner aged 16. Pele scored in a World Cup final aged 17.

Lowry is 19 soon. What’s this over protective need we seem to have about young players? It’s a nonsense to me. Big Hateley said in his book if you want to be a really top player you should be playing regular first team football by that age.

We have a young midfielder who looks to me a cross between big Rabiot at PSG and wee Modric and yet still people want him put back in the B team to play clachnacuddin rovers because he’s not 21 and 14 stone yet. Mental.

I’m not saying start him every week or putting any pressure on him, it’s simply a case of players surely if 18 or over it can’t do any harm to get them into the first team environment and yes actually play some matches.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Charlie Miller was another that was playing along side Gazza at 18 or so. If you're good enough you're old enough.
 
I think we found that out in the lower divisions. Young players can't be a mainstay of a team. Having 2 or 3 around the squad and getting good minutes is fine. Expecting a team with 2 or three teenage starters? Not for me.
 
Johnny.mcb said:
Posted in another thread but general question on this. Derek johnstone scored a cup final winner aged 16. Pele scored in a World Cup final aged 17.

Lowry is 19 soon. What’s this over protective need we seem to have about young players? It’s a nonsense to me. Big Hateley said in his book if you want to be a really top player you should be playing regular first team football by that age.

We have a young midfielder who looks to me a cross between big Rabiot at PSG and wee Modric and yet still people want him put back in the B team to play clachnacuddin rovers because he’s not 21 and 14 stone yet. Mental.

I’m not saying start him every week or putting any pressure on him, it’s simply a case of players surely if 18 or over it can’t do any harm to get them into the first team environment and yes actually play some matches.
Click to expand...
Physicality maybe but i agree, if yer good enough age doesnt matter
 
Derek at 16 was built like a fully grown man. Pele was a little thinner but was roughly the same as he was at 25. Its got nothing to do with skill lvl or ability and everything to do with dealing with the rigors of mens football.

EDIT: I forgot to mention Pele missed most of the 62' world cup through injury.
 
punksnotdead said:
I agree with this. Charlie Miller was another that was playing along side Gazza at 18 or so. If you're good enough you're old enough.
Click to expand...
Teams across Europe will play 18 and 19 year olds no problem, top teams. We seem to have this weird mentality of wanting to molly coddle players until they are 21.

Another point to make to those who say he isn’t ready for the “ rough and tumble “ of playing in the SPL- the alternative is going back into the B team and playing games against hardened pros with thighs thicker than Souness.
 
I grew up reading of players like Alex Scott, Willie Henderson and Jim Forrest coming in to succesful Rangers teams and setting the place alight and I'm old enough to remember Derek Johnstone's winner in 1970 and the way he became a mainstay of the team from that day on. The modern Scottish reluctance to give youth a chance (and also the rejection of some players as being "too wee") has always baffled me. Here's hoping we're changing that attitude because the boy looks like a good 'un in the making and he'll only get better with more games.
 
Glad the boy made his debut and scored but folk need to realise who the competition were tonight and that Lowry will probably make limited appearances for the rest of the season. We already have maddys saying he’s better than hagi and should start ahead of him. He has massive potential so let him develop without putting massive pressure on his shoulders after one start against a pub team.
 
Johnny.mcb said:
Teams across Europe will play 18 and 19 year olds no problem, top teams. We seem to have this weird mentality of wanting to molly coddle players until they are 21.

Another point to make to those who say he isn’t ready for the “ rough and tumble “ of playing in the SPL- the alternative is going back into the B team and playing games against hardened pros with thighs thicker than Souness.
Click to expand...
Teams across Europe will only play them if they think they are ready, they don’t just play them because they’re young and talented.

They are the exception to the rule, the likes of Ajax.

It’s a misconception (not directly aiming at you) that every big team in Europe is filled with academy players starting most weeks, in my opinion.

We have people in charge to work with them day in day out that can judge their ability, their mentality and how they are developing physically with the help of sports science.

There’s probably some Inter Milan or Juve fan in their room texting their mates saying “Rangers brought on two 18 year olds last night, why can’t we do that?”
 
erskine bear said:
Teams across Europe will only play them if they think they are ready, they don’t just play them because they’re young and talented.

They are the exception to the rule, the likes of Ajax.

It’s a misconception that every big team in Europe is filled with academy players starting most weeks, in my opinion.
Click to expand...
What about my point regarding the B team? Surely it’s just as “ physical” if not more so playing those games than first team games? So the argument that they need “ protected “ from the first team just doesn’t add up to me at all. I don’t understand the reluctance to give young players the chance, as long as you say they look to be good enough which is of course a prerequisite
 
I said when Gio was announced I reckon we’ll see more youth get game time and Lowry has proved last night that he and another’s are ready. I thought the same with Gerrard but I think he wanted to protect the chance of 55 more than anything.
 
InTheKnow said:
Glad the boy made his debut and scored but folk need to realise who the competition were tonight and that Lowry will probably make limited appearances for the rest of the season. We already have maddys saying he’s better than hagi and should start ahead of him. He has massive potential so let him develop without putting massive pressure on his shoulders after one start against a pub team.
Click to expand...
Young players often care dont care about pressure...

And anyway id say theres more pressure on Hagi than any other player simply because folk have made him out to be something he isnt and now its very difficult for these posters to deal with watching him struggle.
 
Johnny.mcb said:
Teams across Europe will play 18 and 19 year olds no problem, top teams. We seem to have this weird mentality of wanting to molly coddle players until they are 21.

Another point to make to those who say he isn’t ready for the “ rough and tumble “ of playing in the SPL- the alternative is going back into the B team and playing games against hardened pros with thighs thicker than Souness.
Click to expand...
Yeah Gerrard describing guys like McCrorie aged 20 as babies got on my wick.
 
Johnny.mcb said:
What about my point regarding the B team? Surely it’s just as “ physical” if not more so playing those games than first team games? So the argument that they need “ protected “ from the first team just doesn’t add up to me at all. I don’t understand the reluctance to give young players the chance, as long as you say they look to be good enough which is of course a prerequisite
Click to expand...
There’s nothing to be lost from them playing B team games, they can make mistakes there and learn from them with no consequences.

I know playing in the Lowland league has been hugely beneficial to the B team players this season, particularly in terms of the physical/sports science side of things.

As I’ve posted before though, I’m pretty confident we’ll start bringing through a couple of players every couple of years that can contribute or be sold for profit.
 
Bigbluebear said:
Age isn't the issue.

Maturity, both mentally and physically is.

King for example has matured physically quite a bit since we last saw him in the first team. He looks way more ready now than he did a few months back even.
Click to expand...
I thought King apart from one little mix up and once caught under the ball his reading of the game and his physicality were vastly improved. Goldson coached him through those little mishaps and he never repeated them. Unfortunately he has a couple of decent defenders in front of him but he's ready.
 
erskine bear said:
There’s nothing to be lost from them playing B team games, they can make mistakes there and learn from them with no consequences.

I know playing in the Lowland league has been hugely beneficial to the B team players this season, particularly in terms of the physical/sports science side of things.
Click to expand...
I agree I think it’s been a great thing.

However once a player shows his level surely age shouldn’t be a barrier to him being in and around the first 11
 
If we were miles ahead in the league, the support would obviously be more willing to see what they've got to give but let's be honest, last night's game was against opposition we could have beaten even in our darkest days.

We've had guys like Myles Beerman play well for a couple of games and we've seen promise. I think it's a case of once bitten twice shy, or whatever the saying is.
 
Johnny.mcb said:
What about my point regarding the B team? Surely it’s just as “ physical” if not more so playing those games than first team games? So the argument that they need “ protected “ from the first team just doesn’t add up to me at all. I don’t understand the reluctance to give young players the chance, as long as you say they look to be good enough which is of course a prerequisite
Click to expand...
There's a massive difference in the intensity levels between the Lowland League and the SPFL. Its flat out for 90 minutes and the stands will soon let you know if they think you're being too casual. Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with being wiry and build wise Lowry reminds me of Bobby Russell but even he was 20 when we signed him in 77' and I think Lowry has the potential to be better than Bobby by a considerable margin.
 
The physical factor has a massive part to play in the breakthrough of young players into the first team in the modern game. Particularly in the U.K. As strength and conditioning along with nutrition has improved so has the level of athleticism and power required to play top level football.

Lowry excelled last night against part timers and I have no doubt he has the talent level to do well in the top flight but he is way too slight to compete consistently at that level right now. He needs to put on 10-12lbs of lean muscle at least or he’d be physically dominated.

Good enough is old enough is a nice truism, particularly in less physical, more technical leagues but in the U.K. athletic requirements often trump the technical ability. Which is why youngsters are more and more frequently being nursed into top flight sides. Foden at City being a prime example.
 
Last edited:
erskine bear said:
Yep.

Posted before but there seems to be some mythology with regards Ferguson, people have it in their heads he was a 17 year old plucked from the academy.

In actual fact, he was 20 years and wanting to leave before Advocaat gave him his chance.
Click to expand...
One of Ferguson's tipping point in that regard was sitting in the stand for the 1998 SC Final at the piggery when our midfield was down to the bare bones due to injury and suspension.
 
Johnny.mcb said:
Posted in another thread but general question on this. Derek johnstone scored a cup final winner aged 16. Pele scored in a World Cup final aged 17.

Lowry is 19 soon. What’s this over protective need we seem to have about young players? It’s a nonsense to me. Big Hateley said in his book if you want to be a really top player you should be playing regular first team football by that age.

We have a young midfielder who looks to me a cross between big Rabiot at PSG and wee Modric and yet still people want him put back in the B team to play clachnacuddin rovers because he’s not 21 and 14 stone yet. Mental.

I’m not saying start him every week or putting any pressure on him, it’s simply a case of players surely if 18 or over it can’t do any harm to get them into the first team environment and yes actually play some matches.
Click to expand...
Age is irrelevant, it's just a number.
Physical development is more important.

DJ was a physical specimen at 16, others take longer to develop.
 
Was Rooney not playing regularly at 16? I think you need to be a special talent and some things go your way, such as injuries to other players.
 
You'd like to think there's a structured programme of development and integration into the first team for players we think have the talent, but if there is, it's not obvious at all.

Patterson*, Leon King and now Lowry all have minutes but there's no real trend in terms of gradually getting more time on the park or in certain situations. They'll only develop through time on the park - and we still seem behind in that respect.

Glad Gio didn't take the easy option and stick on another player last night, as it's given Lowry a taste now - but it's down to him to kick on now when he gets the opportunities, let's just hope there are more of them than there were for Patterson or has been for King.

* quick edit to say, Patterson did get more time on the park but we most definitely should have given him more given Tav has been out of form, plus volume of games we play throughout a season.
 
I'm So Bored With The MSM said:
There's a massive difference in the intensity levels between the Lowland League and the SPFL. Its flat out for 90 minutes and the stands will soon let you know if they think you're being too casual. Don't get me wrong there's nothing wrong with being wiry and build wise Lowry reminds me of Bobby Russell but even he was 20 when we signed him in 77' and I think Lowry has the potential to be better than Bobby by a considerable margin.
Click to expand...
Absolute nonsense on the severely limited evidence we've seen.
Bobby Russell was a top top player from the get go.
To mention young Lowry in the same breath at this stage is bonkers.
Talk about getting carried away ffs!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Latest posts

Back
Top