How to level the financial playing field?

RFC97

Well-Known Member
#1
Is it a case of win the league, qualify for the champions league, and then bobs your uncle?

This seems all very simplistic but at the same time makes sense.

They would have to downsize the wage bill as without the CL income it would be unsustainable.

Or do we also need to start selling on for serious profit and get Ashley off our backs?

Is it feasible the playing field will level or do we have to win the league as underdogs for the foreseeable future?
 

Houlet

Well-Known Member
#7
I'm more interested in financial equality with the top two English divisions. Their financial model relies on tv money, mostly from outside England. Unfortunately we have little to sell in that marketplace, not even Scots want to watch most of our games.

Even financial parity with the mhanks means we cannot compete for players with the English Championship never mind the EPL. It is impossible for any Scottish club to compete in Europe under the current system
 

buc11

Well-Known Member
#10
We're in the better position now, they're blowing a staggering amount of money on their massive overrated squad.

If they were really that far ahead they would have bought John McGinn, a quality manager and not brought in Burke and Weah on loans.
 

Knightswoodbear

Well-Known Member
#11
We're right at their throats as it is, we have Europa league money, plus two assets that would fetch 25 million pounds if a fair price is negotiated. It's them that should be worrying about bridging the Gap.
 

AriseSirWalter

Well-Known Member
#12
There’s more to it than just winning the league unfortunately, if you remove the CL money which they currently have a stranglehold on, there is ticket money, hospitality, sponsorship, retail, player sales. In every department we are significantly behind. Add to that they have a bar in the stadium which, not sure how profitable it is, would add to the match day experience, they have friends in council who give them land at nominal fees while the same people block us at every turn.

I don’t know if they’re still planning to build a hotel but that would be another revenue stream they’d have over us.

Success on the football field is the driver behind ALL of it. If you win trophies, punters will come watch, buy merchandise, player valuations will increase etc.... we’re lucky we have such a loyal fan base which means we still have strong ticket sales but we have to maximise all revenue streams which includes selling players to get max value. Long term we really need to look at ways to potentially increase Ibrox’s capacity. Look to hire it out for gigs, rugby etc.

We need to sort the retail issues once and for all, not just getting rid of Ashley but extending product range. Once we’re successful again sponsorship, hospitality can start to increase again especially if we get CL.

We are closer to them on the field than off it in truth, I’m confident we can win the league next season (their squad overhaul is our biggest advantage now we have a settled squad) but I’m not confident we can win say 5 out of the next 10 leagues. Which is our biggest challenge.

Of course contingent liabilities could change all that the way our tax issues did to us.
 

Morelos2106

Well-Known Member
#15
The answer is a three-pronged approach - one of which we cannot really effect.

First prong - increasing and maximising our revenues and resources no matter what. It's why Europa League progress is vital, and why soft loans from the directors are so important at this stage of the rebuild. Returning to a normalised retail arrangement will also provide a significant boost, though I believe we're probably realising a good chunk of funds from this already.

Second prong - hope like %^*& that Celtic don't make it to the Champions League group stages for two or three summers in a row. They are downsizing their budget to reflect Europa League income rather than CL group income, which is what they budget for before (three CL groups in five I believe was the number they needed to break even with their wage bill. They will now likely budget for the Europa League every season.) Let's hope they don't get a reason to continue to budget for the CL groups.

Third prong - exploiting market inefficiencies. Spending our money in a way that eliminates wasted cash. This is the most complex prong, because there are many different ways of doing this. One, as we talked about on a previous thread, consists of not paying sizeable transfer fees (>1m) for players except in extreme circumstances. Another, as we have already done, is paying for the best support staff so that we get the most out of the players we have. Michael Beale is probably worth a lot of points to us a season.

The third prong is the interesting one. That's where the debate is.
 

Ricksen

Well-Known Member
#16
There’s more to it than just winning the league unfortunately, if you remove the CL money which they currently have a stranglehold on, there is ticket money, hospitality, sponsorship, retail, player sales. In every department we are significantly behind. Add to that they have a bar in the stadium which, not sure how profitable it is, would add to the match day experience, they have friends in council who give them land at nominal fees while the same people block us at every turn.

I don’t know if they’re still planning to build a hotel but that would be another revenue stream they’d have over us.

Success on the football field is the driver behind ALL of it. If you win trophies, punters will come watch, buy merchandise, player valuations will increase etc.... we’re lucky we have such a loyal fan base which means we still have strong ticket sales but we have to maximise all revenue streams which includes selling players to get max value. Long term we really need to look at ways to potentially increase Ibrox’s capacity. Look to hire it out for gigs, rugby etc.

We need to sort the retail issues once and for all, not just getting rid of Ashley but extending product range. Once we’re successful again sponsorship, hospitality can start to increase again especially if we get CL.

We are closer to them on the field than off it in truth, I’m confident we can win the league next season (their squad overhaul is our biggest advantage now we have a settled squad) but I’m not confident we can win say 5 out of the next 10 leagues. Which is our biggest challenge.

Of course contingent liabilities could change all that the way our tax issues did to us.
Good post. They will win more leagues than us for the next decade and it’s only a matter of time before they overtake our title haul, but I could live with it if we are slowly improving the clubs infrastructure, stadium capacity etc. We’re in this for the long haul.

BUT we do need to stop them getting 10. That’s the one thing we absolutely need to do short term. It would inflict catastrophic damage we may never recover from.
 

Greebo

Well-Known Member
#18
Nonsense. They have just won 8IAR and have won every domestic trophy for the past three season. It is us who need to bridge the gap.
They will also have something like £30m - £40m in the bank by the end of this season so will be able to strengthen without having to sell their best players if they choose to.

Financially they are in a far stronger position.
 

le suede

Well-Known Member
#19
Nonsense. They have just won 8IAR and have won every domestic trophy for the past three season. It is us who need to bridge the gap.
The big difference there is that us not winning anything leaves us exactly where we are now. Them not winning anything means their massive wage bill, which is unsustainable and far larger than ours, takes precedent and means they have to cut back massively which as a very minimum levels the playing field....at best. They've already blinked first with popcorn.

So, yes, there is a gap, which is closing fast. As it closes their game plan unravels and massive changes will affect their set up massively. Where is the hotel? On ice.
 

AriseSirWalter

Well-Known Member
#20
Increasing ours:
+ get rid of ashley
+ extend product range/open more shops in strategic locations but online is king
+ use Gerrard’s popularity abroad to increase our profile (already an increased Chinese students presence at games)
+ identify players we can develop and buy before out of our range
+ sell players for max value, Tav is probably there just now (although I would maybe make an exception for him this season). Morelos maybe has one more year but should maybe sell and reinvest this season.
+ onfield success will increase sponsorship, ticket prices, hospitality
+ rent out Ibrox for gigs etc
+ fanzone to allow fans to spend more time and money at Ibrox on match days.
+ longer term expand Ibrox as we are always swimming against the tide in ticket sale having lower capacity.

Decreasing theirs:
- they have replaced a very good manager with a run of the mill one, they also have to refresh their squad which hopefully means they miss out on CL again this season. This would result in a poorer quality of player coming in and maybe one of their better ones being sold.
- there is a lot of pressure on them to deliver 10IAR (even though the value of 10 league wins against the likes of Aberdeen and killie is debatable), if we can put real pressure on them it may force them into expensive mistakes i.e. panic buying, paying off lennon
- being associated with child sex abuse could potentially hit their sponsorship revenue
- compensation claims could cost significant amount of money
- if they don’t deliver the tainted 10 then their fans would likely blame the board and it would affect their attendances and potentially send them into turmoil

More importantly than closing the revenue gap is spending wisely, they have a bigger turnover than Ajax. We should be grateful they don’t spend their money as wisely while aiming to make sure we do.
 
#21
If they don't qualify for the Champions League next season they are going to be in a pretty bad financial situation. Not a completely dire one, but they would have to downsize faster than they currently are.

They were running near £90m in operating expenses for the year ending June 2018. At that rate they are completely and utterly unsustainable unless they get Champions League money every season or replace that money with £30-40m in player sales.
 

AriseSirWalter

Well-Known Member
#22
Increasing ours:
+ get rid of ashley
+ extend product range/open more shops in strategic locations but online is king
+ use Gerrard’s popularity abroad to increase our profile (already an increased Chinese students presence at games)
+ identify players we can develop and buy before out of our range
+ sell players for max value, Tav is probably there just now (although I would maybe make an exception for him this season). Morelos maybe has one more year but should maybe sell and reinvest this season.
+ onfield success will increase sponsorship, ticket prices, hospitality
+ rent out Ibrox for gigs etc
+ fanzone to allow fans to spend more time and money at Ibrox on match days.
+ longer term expand Ibrox as we are always swimming against the tide in ticket sale having lower capacity.

Decreasing theirs:
- they have replaced a very good manager with a run of the mill one, they also have to refresh their squad which hopefully means they miss out on CL again this season. This would result in a poorer quality of player coming in and maybe one of their better ones being sold.
- there is a lot of pressure on them to deliver 10IAR (even though the value of 10 league wins against the likes of Aberdeen and killie is debatable), if we can put real pressure on them it may force them into expensive mistakes i.e. panic buying, paying off lennon
- being associated with child sex abuse could potentially hit their sponsorship revenue
- compensation claims could cost significant amount of money
- if they don’t deliver the tainted 10 then their fans would likely blame the board and it would affect their attendances and potentially send them into turmoil

More importantly than closing the revenue gap is spending wisely, they have a bigger turnover than Ajax. We should be grateful they don’t spend their money as wisely while aiming to make sure we do.
Very long term pressure should be applied to ensure that at the very least religious schools receive zero money from the public purse, ideally they should be closed all together.

Catholic schools are a factory for Celtic supporters, doesn’t matter what Celtic do (as abuse scandal shows) their support is brainwashed at a very young age that they must support Celtic, it’s seen as part of their identity. We don’t have that, which means for some of our ‘natural’ support they drift away to rugby, golf. Just my opinion based on what I’ve witnessed from some of the middle class I know.

Catholic schools indoctrination of children is something Celtic massively benefit from. If catholic schools didn’t receive the funding they do from the public purse they would be weaker, less of them which would damage Celtic in the long run.

Regardless of weakening Celtic it’s ridiculous that religious schools are allowed in this day and age. They’re a breeding ground for bigotry.
 

Virgil Hilts

Well-Known Member
#23
Very long term pressure should be applied to ensure that at the very least religious schools receive zero money from the public purse, ideally they should be closed all together.

Catholic schools are a factory for Celtic supporters, doesn’t matter what Celtic do (as abuse scandal shows) their support is brainwashed at a very young age that they must support Celtic, it’s seen as part of their identity. We don’t have that, which means for some of our ‘natural’ support they drift away to rugby, golf. Just my opinion based on what I’ve witnessed from some of the middle class I know.

Catholic schools indoctrination of children is something Celtic massively benefit from. If catholic schools didn’t receive the funding they do from the public purse they would be weaker, less of them which would damage Celtic in the long run.

Regardless of weakening Celtic it’s ridiculous that religious schools are allowed in this day and age. They’re a breeding ground for bigotry.
Faith based schools = sectarianism in its purest, and most sinister form.
 
#28
Sorry Gentlemen & Ladies, but couldn't be ar$ed reading the whole thread (drunk cos it's a bank holiday) but will their "hush money" to their child abuse victims not come into play?
 
#29
I'll bet the first thing on the agenda when we win 55 will be another rejigging of the league prize money. As soon as we weren't in a strong position, the scum lobbied to get a wider gap between 1st & 2nd place.
 

Ricksen

Well-Known Member
#31
Very long term pressure should be applied to ensure that at the very least religious schools receive zero money from the public purse, ideally they should be closed all together.

Catholic schools are a factory for Celtic supporters, doesn’t matter what Celtic do (as abuse scandal shows) their support is brainwashed at a very young age that they must support Celtic, it’s seen as part of their identity. We don’t have that, which means for some of our ‘natural’ support they drift away to rugby, golf. Just my opinion based on what I’ve witnessed from some of the middle class I know.

Catholic schools indoctrination of children is something Celtic massively benefit from. If catholic schools didn’t receive the funding they do from the public purse they would be weaker, less of them which would damage Celtic in the long run.

Regardless of weakening Celtic it’s ridiculous that religious schools are allowed in this day and age. They’re a breeding ground for bigotry.
I don’t like catholic schools. I find them creepy. You walk in the door and you see a guy nailed to a cross with the blood running out him. That’s messed up.

But. State schools are still religious. We are officially a Protestant state, as are the schools. We all sang christian hymns at assembly and prayer etc. Who didn’t? I don’t think it would be fair to force catholic families to send their kids to what is essentially a Protestant school, no matter how messed up their own religion is.
 
#32
I'm more interested in financial equality with the top two English divisions. Their financial model relies on tv money, mostly from outside England. Unfortunately we have little to sell in that marketplace, not even Scots want to watch most of our games.

Even financial parity with the mhanks means we cannot compete for players with the English Championship never mind the EPL. It is impossible for any Scottish club to compete in Europe under the current system
Unless there is an unprecedented crash in English football, we will never have financial equality with their top two divisions. The market in England alone is ten times larger than Scotland, never mind the global appeal.

I don’t actually have a problem with that as much as many others, if their league generates more money, who are we to cry about it being unfair?

The problem I would like to see addressed is the funding from brutal regimes and criminals, but that’s worldwide, not just England. If it’s the TV money I don’t see it as a problem, broadcasters only give them that amount because they profit from the exposure, not because they benefit from positive publicity, like Man City or PSG backers.

There never has been a level playing field in Europe. Real Madrid were government funded for years, Italian clubs have links to organised crime and government funding. Seven Spanish clubs were recently found guilty of recieving illegal state subsidies. People only go on about England because they’re our neighbours, the problem has been about forever across Europe.
 
#33
I don’t like catholic schools. I find them creepy. You walk in the door and you see a guy nailed to a cross with the blood running out him. That’s messed up.

But. State schools are still religious. We are officially a Protestant state, as are the schools. We all sang christian hymns at assembly and prayer etc. Who didn’t? I don’t think it would be fair to force catholic families to send their kids to what is essentially a Protestant school, no matter how messed up their own religion is.

When I see this argument, I always think of Richard Dawkins saying you can’t remove religion from British education, as without an understanding of that, you can’t understand British or European history. You can however, make the schools teach religion as a broad subject. There is no need for any type of religious school, a school should be impartial on that front and if parents want their children to gain a religious education, they should take them to church.
 

Ricksen

Well-Known Member
#34
When I see this argument, I always think of Richard Dawkins saying you can’t remove religion from British education, as without an understanding of that, you can’t understand British or European history. You can however, make the schools teach religion as a broad subject. There is no need for any type of religious school, a school should be impartial on that front and if parents want their children to gain a religious education, they should take them to church.
I would totally support that.
 

Tugay83

Well-Known Member
#35
If they don't qualify for the Champions League next season they are going to be in a pretty bad financial situation. Not a completely dire one, but they would have to downsize faster than they currently are.

They were running near £90m in operating expenses for the year ending June 2018. At that rate they are completely and utterly unsustainable unless they get Champions League money every season or replace that money with £30-40m in player sales.
We are in exactly the same boat with regards to European money as they are. Without Europea league money we would make a big loss. The difference is that their route to the champions league is easier than our route to the Europa - and if we both make it they get 3 or 4 times the money. There is a massive gulf in the finances between us and them that people on this thread are completely blind to.
 
#36
My take on this is...

7 years ago when we were 'thrown to the dogs' the general feeling amongst football fans/mhedia was we were DEAD.

The bheasts were convinced we were truly done for, never to return, squashed forever. Although we crept back up the leagues we were paralysed under the control of the spivs and the crooks the 'opposition' eternally safe in the knowledge we were finished.

The power of the fans at Ibrox was very evident during those early years, then with Dave King taking control it was the game changer, suddenly they realised (the Bheast board) we were not done for, we were on our way back.

They brought in the tranny shagger at great expense in fear of us coming into the Premiership and winning it at the first attempt...they needn't have bothered, we really weren't that good.

What they were doing 3 years ago and what Rangers were doing at the same time were complete opposites - financially.

We stumbled initially with managerial appointments, they stuck by the 'trusted' tranny shagger with an expensive squad.

Failure to make the CL group stage last season was a major kick in the baws for them as Steven Gerrard was making progress in the EL while building a team of true standard within budget.

With the tranny gone now and Stevie having a better idea of what is required after a very important year of experience in the hot seat, it would (my take on it) for them to fail to make the CL group stage next season and for us to win the league to finally put us above them financially.

Another thing:

The historical child abuse scandal is looking more like it may catch up with them and would further our advantage over them due to serious compensation claims/payouts and an expected critical loss of sponsorship which could eventually cripple that vile club of which they would surely never recover from.
 

Bazoo

Well-Known Member
#38
They will also have something like £30m - £40m in the bank by the end of this season so will be able to strengthen without having to sell their best players if they choose to.

Financially they are in a far stronger position.
Financially they have a few wasps that they need to chew first.

There is a massive unknown and potentially unlimited liability hanging over their heads.

Compensation for uk victims
Compensation for USA victims
Punishment from SFA
Punishment from prosecutors
Brand damage and loss of sponsorship

Some of these, if not all will happen at some point in the future.

The money they have banked is less to do with winning trophies but more to do with fire fighting for survival.
 

AriseSirWalter

Well-Known Member
#39
I don’t like catholic schools. I find them creepy. You walk in the door and you see a guy nailed to a cross with the blood running out him. That’s messed up.

But. State schools are still religious. We are officially a Protestant state, as are the schools. We all sang christian hymns at assembly and prayer etc. Who didn’t? I don’t think it would be fair to force catholic families to send their kids to what is essentially a Protestant school, no matter how messed up their own religion is.
That was certainly true in my day, honestly couldn't tell you if it's still the case of not but if it is it should also change.
 

tintin69

Well-Known Member
#40
Buy players cheap and sell high, like Porto and Ajax.
This is a myth.
Check the transfer fees Ajax paid for their current first team. Yes they have brought through some cracking youngsters but they have also paid massive transfer fees ourselves and the scum could only dream about.

Blind £14 million and Tadic £10 million are just two examples.
 
#43
Ashley is having no impact on our revenue at present other than litigation costs as another retailing operation is running matters that he is not part of.
An injunction prevents us from doing the Elite agreement. So presumably we get no direct revenue from it. If we were free from Ashley, don't you think our revenue streams would be higher since we would be a partner in the retail operation?
 
#44
Most of what we can and should do, takes time to produce results. The main catalyst is performance since it affects match day income, sponsorship, merchandising, prize money and the like. The more success the greater our profile. This also benefits our academy football, the greater the profile the better young players we can attract. In the longer term, the academy will be a growing source of value producing, hopefully, a conveyor belt of players developed at Rangers to play the Rangers way. Some we will keep, some we will sell and some will not make it. But it all takes time. AND it requires a degree of patience from the fans.

So, what do we do to generate the cash, to build success, then profile and then the higher revenue that flows from it? Well, pretty much what we're doing already. Firstly, we raise investment income by attracting new investors through a series of rights issues. That process is now in place. That gives us the working capital to improve the squad and other facilities. We further improve the squad by shrewd dealings in the transfer market. We buy undervalued players and sell the odd over-valued player where we know we can get a suitable replacement at a lower cost. That buys the time to increase operating revenues and allows us to get better players in the short term than we would otherwise. Then, hopefully, revenue rises and we start to get the benefit of our investment in the academy. Well, that's the theory! :))
 

Talktalk

Well-Known Member
#45
Is it a case of win the league, qualify for the champions league, and then bobs your uncle?

This seems all very simplistic but at the same time makes sense.

They would have to downsize the wage bill as without the CL income it would be unsustainable.

Or do we also need to start selling on for serious profit and get Ashley off our backs?

Is it feasible the playing field will level or do we have to win the league as underdogs for the foreseeable future?
If the 43,000 season ticket holders all committed £10 a month to the Rangers lotto that would put us in pole position.
 
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