Hypothetical question about GVB

Scratcho1973

Scratcho1973

Well-Known Member
First post so please forgive if a silly question.

Been on my mind since his sacking but do us Bears think, HAD he won the Euro Final, but all else stayed the same (recent results, no identity of play etc.) - would the board still have sacked Gio last week?

Personally, glad he’s gone, despite him being a really nice guy. We needed a change IMO but how different could the current landscape be had he delivered that Seville result? Or not? Thoughts Bears?
 
If we won the cup I think the mindset would've been different from the players, board and management team.

I think losing in the manner that we done broke a few players mentally. It would've given us certainties regarding cash coming in and allowed us to go for a better calibre of player as well and our preparations over the summer would've been different. We probably had to alter our pre-season to focus fully on qualification.
 
Scratcho1973 said:
First post so please forgive if a silly question.

Been on my mind since his sacking but do us Bears think, HAD he won the Euro Final, but all else stayed the same (recent results, no identity of play etc.) - would the board still have sacked Gio last week?

Personally, glad he’s gone, despite him being a really nice guy. We needed a change IMO but how different could the current landscape be had he delivered that Seville result? Or not? Thoughts Bears?
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Regardless, he would be gone.

We have short memories as fans at times, and romanticise in other cases. GvB was a mix of both. Europa run glossed over a pretty turgid domestic display that continued into this season - he just couldnt figure out how to be the bigger team in games.
 
Scratcho1973 said:
First post so please forgive if a silly question.

Been on my mind since his sacking but do us Bears think, HAD he won the Euro Final, but all else stayed the same (recent results, no identity of play etc.) - would the board still have sacked Gio last week?

Personally, glad he’s gone, despite him being a really nice guy. We needed a change IMO but how different could the current landscape be had he delivered that Seville result? Or not? Thoughts Bears?
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I think they still would have sacked him. IMO he got more time because he got to the final. he should have been gone after the liverpool a home game.
 
Ultimately he was not going to bring success for us in the league, the system and intensity was not going to consistently get results

If we had won the EL we bring in more revenue and maybe get a couple of better players in. We also are in pot 1 in the CL draw so would not have got as difficult a draw and would not have had qualifying games which contributed to the burnout and injuries

I don’t think the wheels would have come off so quickly but the underlying issues would still be there
 
Ünnëcëssärÿ Ümläüts said:
I think VAR would have ruled it out mate. Looked very likely that the ball went out before Roofe crossed it.
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Which would have felt bloody awful if it had gone in then been ruled out.

In answer to the OP, I think things would have been very different if we had won in Seville. We might have signed different players, the players we have might have had a different mindset, our pre-season would have had a different strategy.

All ifs, buts and maybes.
 
Hypothetically, if we'd won the Europa League, it could have been a very different story in the Champions League. For example, we would not have had to negotiate the qualifying rounds and would have went straight into group A. Arguably, this was an easier group than our own. There was more potential to pick up points and may not have damaged our season in the same manner. That would have fed into all sorts of other variables, but perhaps they're best left to the imagination.
 
IMO, if we hadn't beaten PSV, and been a pot 1 EL team we;

A) qualify for the latter stages of EL.
B) aren't this far behind in the league.
Bii) I think the tankings took some amount of energy/ confidence from the team.

Meaning I think Gio would still be in the job had we not beaten PSV.
 
It’s a hard question because we don’t know how much more ££ he would’ve had at his disposal if we’d won and how he’d have been allowed to use it.
Either way, the EL final result doesn’t and shouldn’t excuse his piss poor form in the league between this season and last.
We also wouldn’t be the first team to sack a manager after a monumental result either. Look at Di Matteo at Chelsea and Ranieri at Leicester. If things aren’t working out then things need to change, regardless of the past.
 
There’s too much we can never know. How much have the ECL thumpings effected the mentality? How much would guaranteed ECL money have changed the signings?

If you assume only the same kind of results, then it’s been proven that a week is a long time in football so no, win or not he’d have gone.
 
Coopertrueblue said:
I maintain that Kent sitter in the last minute was a sliding door moment. Win that trophy, direct entry to champions league changes a lot of things
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Maybe. Maybe not so much though.

We did still end up qualifying for the CL and so had the same money available to spend. Granted we didn't know this until late in the transfer window, but we should have been preparing for it after beating USG.

Say we got Frankfurt's group, do you think Gio's team would have done enough to get points off of Spurs, Marseille and Sporting? The defeats would have been less severe, but I don't see the current crop taking much from that group either.

The fundamental issues involving tactics, recruitment and fitness/injuries would still remain, even if we did have a slightly easier CL group and an extra 5mil pound player

All ifs and buts of course.
 
Moses McNeil said:
Even if he did score it would have got chopped off by VAR as the ball was out before Roofe crossed it. It’s Goldson not blocking the ball going across the 6 yard box that lost us that final.
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Or Wright not blocking a cross, or Bassey losing his man, or McGregor not stopping it. Easy to blame one player in a catalogue of errors.
 
Moses McNeil said:
Even if he did score it would have got chopped off by VAR as the ball was out before Roofe crossed it. It’s Goldson not blocking the ball going across the 6 yard box that lost us that final.
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Wright failing to stop the cross, Goldson not dealing with it and Bassey not reacting while their striker did. It was a piss poor goal to lose, though to he fair, they'd say the same about ours.
Regards Gio, we allow players to play themselves through a bad spell. Managers don't get the same luxury. Would he have turned it around with players coming back from injury, or if he'd been better backed in the transfer window? We'll never know. Personally I'd have preferred if both he and Michael Beale had stayed in their jobs until the end of the season. We'd have had a much better idea of what both were capable of.
 
PrivateAye72 said:
IMO, if we hadn't beaten PSV, and been a pot 1 EL team we;

A) qualify for the latter stages of EL.
B) aren't this far behind in the league.
Bii) I think the tankings took some amount of energy/ confidence from the team.

Meaning I think Gio would still be in the job had we not beaten PSV.
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I said similar on a thread during the CL games as I do think these players just do not have the focus and mental strength to get to that next level and that's on them to change their attitudes. I think we would be still in Europe in the Europa league but, there is still the issues of these amount of injured players.

I do wonder how long Beale will get with fans and wonder if this time next year ( If he is still here) will it b the same circus again, if we are in a similar situation.
 
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Not sure that any of us will ever truly appreciate how much the Europa League run and ultimate defeat in the final took out of the team.

A 65 game season with several games at the tail end going to extra time and a few of the team playing a significant number of those games. Add in International duty for several and it was always likely to take its toll.

The disappointment of defeat and the manner of it would undoubtedly, have left them deflated and, added to the fatigue of an exceptionally long season, impacted the start of this season.

Selling a couple of our best players and not replacing also has an impact.

However if we win then the players turn up to preseason training with a spring in their steps and the weariness of a long season the year before is a distant memory.

Guaranteed Champions League money allows us to replace those who left with players of a similar, or better, quality and means that we can also add a few others so that we don't need to re-sign those aging players who have served us so well but are now no longer of the required standard.

No qualifiers for this seasons Champions League also means more time to recuperate between games and the undoubted benefit that brings after a season like last year.

In my opinion we would, therefore, have been in a better position than we are now and wouldn't have taken the heavy and embarrassing defeats that we did.

How much better is anybodies guess and we may still have been out the CL and trailing in the league - given the impatience of various parties and a weak as feck board then, if that was the case, we would probably have still sacked him to protect others.

Unfortunately he hasn't helped himself with some of his decisions but there are so many contributing factors, including the lack of backing, a horrendous injury list and players simply failing to do the basics, that it's hard not to feel for him.

So in reply to the question - "I've nae idea mate".

Long way to say it though :))
 
cardonaldtrueblues said:
Still never watched it back....
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I've watchted it back except the penalties.

The Kent chance, had it gone in would have been ruled out by VAR and having that euphoric moment snatched away like that would have been worse than losing on penalties.

While there were things to be critical about this season, I've said in previous threads that Celtic's consisentcy has people's backs up too. I don't think Gio is a bad manager and all of the stuff around style of play etc is only cast up when you're not winning trophies. Gio for his part got us to a Euro Final, Won the Scottish Cup, had us in the LC Semi and got an utter bassa of a CL draw. If we win in Seville, we theoretically get a better draw I'd say and maybe sign some different players.

Last season's league would have been irrelevant, this season maybe not so much but we'd still be rubbing a Europa League trophy in Timmys face right now anytime they mentioned the SPFL.
 
McQueen said:
Which would have felt bloody awful if it had gone in then been ruled out.

In answer to the OP, I think things would have been very different if we had won in Seville. We might have signed different players, the players we have might have had a different mindset, our pre-season would have had a different strategy.

All ifs, buts and maybes.
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Let's be honest if we had won everything changes

The euro battering were the straw that broke the camels back for some.

The fact we would have been in pot one of cl changes the full season prob an easier group better recruitment, confidence of players.

There's part of me thinks we have made a mistake but gio prob had to go as well as things were all over the place.
 
Scratcho1973 said:
First post so please forgive if a silly question.

Been on my mind since his sacking but do us Bears think, HAD he won the Euro Final, but all else stayed the same (recent results, no identity of play etc.) - would the board still have sacked Gio last week?

Personally, glad he’s gone, despite him being a really nice guy. We needed a change IMO but how different could the current landscape be had he delivered that Seville result? Or not? Thoughts Bears?
Click to expand...
Not winning the cup undoubtedly left a cloud hanging over the club
 
All said and done I don’t think GVB is too bothered what happened. He achieved things that most of us can only dream of. He played for Rangers winning all the domestic trophies and then he managed Rangers. Albeit, he had a short but eventful year.

Fantastic footballer and not a too bad a Manager. He was unfortunate that he inherited a stagnating squad who have players that are burned out and many who are injured. He took it on knowing what the budget was and gave it a real go. Fair play to him.

I only hope that Michael Beale has a wee bit more luck and funding than GVB. On paper, for me there is not much between them as Managers.
 
Sadly Gio's theory that we needed to focus more on technical ability at the expense of fitness would have eventually taken its toll. Our success was built a lot around just being able to run and run for 120 minutes where supposedly more technical players would be blowing out of their arses on the 70th minute. For the level of player we can attract, that's the model, that makes us competitive. I fully expect to see the team back to those fitness levels soon enough as we have no more 2 games a week for the remainder of this season and Beale will adjust that.
 
Moses McNeil said:
Even if he did score it would have got chopped off by VAR as the ball was out before Roofe crossed it. It’s Goldson not blocking the ball going across the 6 yard box that lost us that final.
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I wouldn't blame Goldson. We sat back far too deep and invited Frankfurt onto us after we scored. That's what cost us the final.
 
Scratcho1973 said:
First post so please forgive if a silly question.

Been on my mind since his sacking but do us Bears think, HAD he won the Euro Final, but all else stayed the same (recent results, no identity of play etc.) - would the board still have sacked Gio last week?

Personally, glad he’s gone, despite him being a really nice guy. We needed a change IMO but how different could the current landscape be had he delivered that Seville result? Or not? Thoughts Bears?
Click to expand...
Not a chance he would have been sacked had we won it. He would be judged on next season. We wouldn’t have had Champions league qualifiers. We would have been in a different group. That’s football.
 
Moses McNeil said:
Even if he did score it would have got chopped off by VAR as the ball was out before Roofe crossed it. It’s Goldson not blocking the ball going across the 6 yard box that lost us that final.
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100%.

Poor defending at the throw in but as that ball came across, it was there to be won. To this day I will never understand what he was thinking. I haven't seen the game back and not sure I have ever see this goal properly, other than being there.

An absolute sickener.
 
no he’d be here he would be a legend don’t think bassey and aribo get sold as we would have no 100% the CL money was in which would have made us pot 1 and maybe a higher calibre of signings but it’s a moot point we are where we are
 
If you are letting them dominate in the league, you are never secure as a Rangers Manager. Europe is nice, but being second in the league is a no no. We are the true Kings of Scotland and need to claim our throne back ASAP.
 
You’re only as good as your last game, so yes he’d have been sacked. You don’t survive what went on at their dump twice!
 
Had he won and everything else stayed the same then no doubt he would of still got sacked only difference being we may of got a top manager in rather than an untested guy who barely lit any fires at us previously or at QPR.
 
I always felt the CL humpings had a big effect in the players, especially Liverpool. We didn't get over it.
 
PrivateAye72 said:
IMO, if we hadn't beaten PSV, and been a pot 1 EL team we;

A) qualify for the latter stages of EL.
B) aren't this far behind in the league.
Bii) I think the tankings took some amount of energy/ confidence from the team.

Meaning I think Gio would still be in the job had we not beaten PSV.
Click to expand...


Ironically and with hindsight the worst result of the season was winning in Eindhoven.

I was absolutely buzzing after that game.
 
Scratcho1973 said:
First post so please forgive if a silly question.

Been on my mind since his sacking but do us Bears think, HAD he won the Euro Final, but all else stayed the same (recent results, no identity of play etc.) - would the board still have sacked Gio last week?

Personally, glad he’s gone, despite him being a really nice guy. We needed a change IMO but how different could the current landscape be had he delivered that Seville result? Or not? Thoughts Bears?
Click to expand...
Even if we had won in seville, you cannot live on past glories, so with current run of results and form, he would still have been binned imo.
it just would have stung more, for everyone
 
Big D said:
Wright failing to stop the cross, Goldson not dealing with it and Bassey not reacting while their striker did. It was a piss poor goal to lose, though to he fair, they'd say the same about ours.
Regards Gio, we allow players to play themselves through a bad spell. Managers don't get the same luxury. Would he have turned it around with players coming back from injury, or if he'd been better backed in the transfer window? We'll never know. Personally I'd have preferred if both he and Michael Beale had stayed in their jobs until the end of the season. We'd have had a much better idea of what both were capable of.
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I spent all week saying we cannot let Kostic cross.

Thats exactly what we did.
 
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