If Warburton stayed ..

Was not a fan but have to say better as things really could not get any worse at present considering the money wasted by Pedro and the inept signings we are let to offload on big salary’s
 
JMTrangers said:
For me, the best XI since Warburton took over up to now is:

Wes

Tav
Alves
Cardoso
Wallace

Jack
Dorrans
Pena/Windass (lack of real quality third midfielder)

Waghorn
Morelos
McKay

The reality is we SHOULD be better, but a combination of risky signings (imagine we'd spent the £4m we spent on the Mexicans in Europe) and letting players go who could've done a job has cost us up to this point.

I still think the team above, if we hadn't let Waghorn and McKay go, would be better placed than we are right now.
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Waggy didnt have it Cordoso is a bitter player than him. Holt would be your third midfielder.

Only McKay would make the side.

I was a big Warburton fan, I still am actually to the point the 'snake' bollocks winds me up, but like his playing staff I think he lacked the mental attitude to win every game.
 
StaunchAndTrue said:
Dominated games better under pedro? Ur having a f***ing laugh arent you?
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No not at all.

Apart from the Celtic game I thought we were the better side in every domestic game we played this season. Even the Celtic game was 50:50 and had we got the penalty or Morelos had taken his chance I don't think we would have lost the game.
 
Portadown_Bear said:
No not at all.

Apart from the Celtic game I thought we were the better side in every domestic game we played this season. Even the Celtic game was 50:50 and had we got the penalty or Morelos had taken his chance I don't think we would have lost the game.
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Can't agree with that at all, Celtic could easily have upped their game and taken another couple off us. We were chasing shadows at times and they didn't get out of 2nd gear.
 
derbybear said:
Warburton never had the injuries and refereeing decision to contend with on such a ridiculous level.

btw my Derby supporting mates love Warburton!
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I can't remember the refereeing as ever being as bad as this season to be fair. However, we were moaning last season about it.



For taking them from a place above relegation to 2 points off Derby? Do they like having their rivals far closer to them?
 
Vidmar said:
I think history is being rewritten slightly when it comes to MW. He didn't take us as far as we wanted but he wasn't a failure, either.

In the end, he wanted out and was never well-liked behind the scenes, but ditching him for Pedro was a waste of time. Last season unraveled as soon as MW left, and Progres, losing to the Sheep, 5-1 at Ibrox was much worse than anything endured under MW (on a much smaller budget).

MW is now doing OK with a good club in a vastly superior league, whilst we scrabble around for a manager toiling in fourth.

I'm not sure who's having the last laugh right now.
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This post fails to mention the fact Warburton himself was skelped 5-1 by the mentally challengeds, lost to Aberdeen and was also utterly humiliated twice away to Hearts.

How can you use the results from last season but the budget from this season as your justification? It’s absolute lunacy.

Warburton is an utter fraud who couldn’t handle it at a club like Rangers, end of. The revisionism on this board at times is mental.

Neither Warburton or Pedro were the right man and both would have had us toiling in the league and out of all the cups by now.
 
Chester Loyal said:
This post fails to mention the fact Warburton himself was skelped 5-1 by the mentally challengeds, lost to Aberdeen and was also utterly humiliated twice away to Hearts.

How can you use the results from last season but the budget from this season as your justification? It’s absolute lunacy.

Warburton is an utter fraud who couldn’t handle it at a club like Rangers, end of. The revisionism on this board at times is mental.

Neither Warburton or Pedro were the right man and both would have had us toiling in the league and out of all the cups by now.
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Out of all the cups?
 
We'd still have had a team full of Kiernan, Wilson, Halliday, Holt, Garner, Windass and Waghorn.

Leaking goals right, left and centre, inability to control a midfield and absolutely toothless in front of goal.

Our away record would be terrible and our home an improvement on the current one.

I wouldn't have trusted Warburton with £6m+, he would probably have still been whoring himself about jobs and we'd be no better than where we are just now.

I'm glad he's gone and replacing him with Pedro Caixinha has not moved us forward one bit.

We were rubbish under Warburton, rubbish under Caixinha and still rubbish under Murty.
 
Mark Warburton is a better football manager than the man who replaced him, better than the man who was given more than twice the budget Warburton got. We have not moved forward in the slightest since then and instead of pointing the finger at each other on here, we should all be pointing it at the board.
 
Warburton underrated the SPL,that was his 1st mistake. He is more flexible now, playing 4 2 3 1. He wanted out do wasn't a long term project. Pedro was a disaster. By the 3rd home game, I said we had regressed as we were losing possession more regularly.
He spent loads and now we realise, not wisely.
Positives Jack,Morelos,Candeias,Alves (not as good as I had hoped) John
Unsure Cardoso,Herrera,Dorrans
Failures Dalcio, Pena,Nemane.
 
Northampton_Loyalist said:
I can't remember the refereeing as ever being as bad as this season to be fair. However, we were moaning last season about it.



For taking them from a place above relegation to 2 points off Derby? Do they like having their rivals far closer to them?
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Derby and 4 other teams have at least a game in hand.
 
On the plus side we were fitter than we are now,on the down side we'd still have deadbeats picking up wages under false pretences and I think he'd have spent that money on much the same as what he brought in when we came up,one shifty character,turned out the magic hat turned into Arfur Daleys' trilby.
 
He threw in the towel when things got tough in the top flight for me and couldn't wait to get out of the exit door.
 
Partickger said:
He threw in the towel when things got tough in the top flight for me and couldn't wait to get out of the exit door.
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This. Major disappointment. That first season back was always going to be tough. The "Going for 55" stuff from the club didn't help one bit.
 
Portadown_Bear said:
What is telling is after the Warburton sacking King said there was more funds available to Warburton but Warburton said he didn't need it. Warburton was never going to make us any better.

Under Pedro we defended better, created more chances and dominated the game better. We didn't have games domestically this season like Hearts, Celtic or Aberdeen last year where we were never in with a chance of winning the game and were completely dominated. To me that's progress because we are better than we were the season before.

We all know we are not where we need to be. IMHO we need another two good transfer windows to achieve that. We have signed the numbers in the last window and have the nucleus of a good squad (if only Kenny and Murty would play them but that's another thread). What we need to do now is concentrate on 3-4 top quality players - a LM, CM, CB and striker.
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For £8m we should reasonably have expected to be within touching distance of Celtic at this stage of the season, should be in the League Cup final, should possibly even still be in Europe and certainly should have won more than 50% of our home games.

We’ve added two or three better players, but horrendous sums have been wasted on guys who look utterly ill-suited to our needs.

Warburton was bad, but Pedro is hands down the biggest managerial disaster we’ve ever had, and I include Le Guen and McCoist in that.
 
The man lost 100% of his away games against 'rivals'. And that includes lumping fucking Falkirk in as rivals.

He went to the piggery with a midfield 3 of Barton, Krankjar and Windass!
He signed Senderos.
He gave Rob Kiernan a new contract and had him as a first pick.

That's just for starters... We'd still be a shambles if he had stayed. Just a different type of shambles.
 
All the money available during the summer should have been spent on 3-4 quality signings rather than trying to buy a full squad. Add that to the bosmans, use the loan market well and we'd be in a much better place IMO.

Foderingham

Tavernier
CB - £3m
Alves - Bosman
Wallace

CM - £3m
Jack - Bosman
Dorrans - £1m

Mackay
ST - £3m
Waghorn

£10 and the team would have us in a better place than we are now.
 
omegaman said:
For £8m we should reasonably have expected to be within touching distance of Celtic at this stage of the season, should be in the League Cup final, should possibly even still be in Europe and certainly should have won more than 50% of our home games.

We’ve added two or three better players, but horrendous sums have been wasted on guys who look utterly ill-suited to our needs.

Warburton was bad, but Pedro is hands down the biggest managerial disaster we’ve ever had, and I include Le Guen and McCoist in that.
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£8m buys you a decent enough player in the English Championship.

Anybody who thought we were going to build an entire team to challenge Celtic on £8m was living on cloud cuckoo land.

Pedro spent well in the Summer but we will still need to spend another £20m if we are to compete with them.
 
Portadown_Bear said:
£8m buys you a decent enough player in the English Championship.

Anybody who thought we were going to build an entire team to challenge Celtic on £8m was living on cloud cuckoo land.

Pedro spent well in the Summer but we will still need to spend another £20m if we are to compete with them.
Click to expand...

That’s not in doubt, but £8m should get you better than 4th place, out of Europe to a bunch of Luxembourg part-timers and a lack of fight and passion that cost us a place in the first cup final of the season.

Aberdeen are second, again, on a 5th of our spend - even Hibs are above us on less than that.

Come on mate, it’s indefensible really. It’s why he was sacked - the progress was virtually non existent for that level of support.
 
Portadown_Bear said:
£8m buys you a decent enough player in the English Championship.

Anybody who thought we were going to build an entire team to challenge Celtic on £8m was living on cloud cuckoo land.

Pedro spent well in the Summer but we will still need to spend another £20m if we are to compete with them.
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Lets not ignore the fact that anyone with high hopes for the last 2 years was directly encouraged by the board and 'going for 55'
 
If Warburton took over now with the current squad, he’d manage at least 3 wins on the trot, he managed it with an inferior squad.

At least he had plan A, I don’t think Pedro really had a plan or any plan he did have was quickly shelved after some poor results.

There was a big mismatch in expectations when we returned to the top flight, we had got the better of Celtic in the cup semi and they were poor under Delia so we had folk tipping us for the league. As it happened they were to improve significantly and we were not as equipped for the step up as the cup semi seemed to suggest.

The expectations for Pedro were not unreasonable given the budget he had, but he never really looked like delivering albeit he had a few bad breaks along the way.
 
omegaman said:
That’s not in doubt, but £8m should get you better than 4th place, out of Europe to a bunch of Luxembourg part-timers and a lack of fight and passion that cost us a place in the first cup final of the season.

Aberdeen are second, again, on a 5th of our spend - even Hibs are above us on less than that.

Come on mate, it’s indefensible really. It’s why he was sacked - the progress was virtually non existent for that level of support.
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Were we fourth when Pedro left? I thought we were third.

Its pointless to argue about it now but I do believe that if Pedro had been given a season we would have finished second comfortably. Our squad is easily the second best in Scotland. I believe Pedro would have kicked us on if he had got through to January, quashed the dressing room unrest and signed a player or two.

Others disagree and obviously we'll never know.
 
Portadown_Bear said:
Were we fourth when Pedro left? I thought we were third.

Its pointless to argue about it now but I do believe that if Pedro had been given a season we would have finished second comfortably. Our squad is easily the second best in Scotland. I believe Pedro would have kicked us on if he had got through to January, quashed the dressing room unrest and signed a player or two.

Others disagree and obviously we'll never know.
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Don't know what Pedro ever achieved at rangers that would make anyone think we would achieve second comfortably? We were 5 points behind Aberdeen when he left.
 
He wouldn’t have spent money on some of the guys who we have brought in, that being said I think it was clear even with the sort of money we spent over the summer that he’d still not be taking us to where we want and expect to be.
 
Portadown_Bear said:
No not at all.

Apart from the Celtic game I thought we were the better side in every domestic game we played this season. Even the Celtic game was 50:50 and had we got the penalty or Morelos had taken his chance I don't think we would have lost the game.
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Respect that everyone has different opinions but this is way off in my own opinion mate. Even when we won under pedro we weren’t convincing. I can honestly say, despite what some results on paper would suggest, his first game v Hamilton is the only game in which we dominated from start to finish and had the game wrapped up early. Every other game was a dog fight.

At least with warburton our downfalls were obvious so u would assume would be easier to rectify.
 
Truth was he wasn’t particularly good or clever as a coach. In his old age he will blame his failures on others who didn’t understand the plan.
 
I’d say better possibly, he is a better manager than Caixinha and if he was backed with the same money Pedro got he would of signed his first choices, Marriapa, Espinoza, Abraham etc.
 
Our last two managers have both had glaring weaknesses but it's their recruitment that truly finished them.

A pertinent point is that there was a clamour to move away from the 'Rangers man' mentality but look what we replaced it with.
 
MW's faults & there were many - may be cause a lot of us to ignore some of his positives - of which there were too few in the end - but anyway - at the very least he could put out a team which were in the opponents penalty box for almost 89 minutes on occasions and I can't help thinking Morelos instead of Garner is better equipped at converting chances - McRorie & Aĺves should be better at the back so I'm left wondering how MW would use this bunch of players ? It might not be as bad as it was with Pedro - all totally academic now of course -
 
Barca Bear said:
its a good question,
answer? who knows, its easy for me to say ''couldnt be any worse''.
could it?
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I think Pedro’s main signing have been horrendous compared to Warburton simply due to the cash spent. To be fair the question is like ‘out the frying pan and into the fire’. There seemed to be a logic behind Warburton but Pedro was just plain crazy. As it happens both are poor coaches.
 
sheddensbear said:
Warburton underrated the SPL,that was his 1st mistake. He is more flexible now, playing 4 2 3 1. He wanted out do wasn't a long term project. Pedro was a disaster. By the 3rd home game, I said we had regressed as we were losing possession more regularly.
He spent loads and now we realise, not wisely.
Positives Jack,Morelos,Candeias,Alves (not as good as I had hoped) John
Unsure Cardoso,Herrera,Dorrans
Failures Dalcio, Pena,Nemane.
Click to expand...

Your description of the signings doesn't really back up your point. Most are good signings in your estimation. And the 'unsure' list are all a significant step above Warburton's equivalents - Cardoso vs Kiernan as second defender; Herrera vs Garner as second striker, Dorrans vs Holt as forward midfielder.

On the failures, Dalcio and Nemane are both cheap loans for a position that seemed problematic or where the board had stopped providing funding for first choices.

Pena does appear to be a failure which is exacerbated by his cost. However you can at least see the thinking - he had been an outstanding player relatively recently. If that could be unearthed then the signing would have been an absolute steal. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to have worked and we shouldn't have bankrolled the gamble at the expense of, say, affording a left winger. But it kind of made some sense.whereas Warburton never signing a defender who could head the ball was bonkers.

Caixina's recruitment was actually pretty decent. His problem seems to be an inability to communicate his ideas to players and an inability to inspire them to fight for him.

Put it this way - if you handed Walter Warburton's squad without any transfers, even he would struggle to get them to do much. If you handed him Caixina's squad, he'd make them bloody hard to beat and potentially even elevate them close to Celtic. He'd probably manage to terrify/coax Pena into a performance in a Gascoigne-esque manner too.
 
bob1873 said:
I think Pedro’s main signing have been horrendous compared to Warburton simply due to the cash spent. To be fair the question is like ‘out the frying pan and into the fire’. There seemed to be a logic behind Warburton but Pedro was just plain crazy. As it happens both are poor coaches.
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I'd be interested in which of Caixina's signings you consider crazy?

Pena was a gamble we should never have taken at that cost. But the rest all seem pretty sensible.

He didn't get the best performances out of them but he strengthened us at the back, gave us a few players who can head a ball, and bought some finishers and some players with penetration. I don't quite see how you view Mr 'defending and scoring don't matter' as being logical.
 
Starting Anew said:
I'd be interested in which of Caixina's signings you consider crazy?

Pena was a gamble we should never have taken at that cost. But the rest all seem pretty sensible.

He didn't get the best performances out of them but he strengthened us at the back, gave us a few players who can head a ball, and bought some finishers and some players with penetration. I don't quite see how you view Mr 'defending and scoring don't matter' as being logical.
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A million and a half for Herrera?
 
Will be interesting to see where Forest end up
The Champonship is a league where position can change quickly
Currently just off play off places
If he gets them in play offs in what is his first season that is a success
Forest fan I work with is very happy at the moment
Combine that with the job he did at Brentford and it would be very hard to argue he's not a good manager
Wouldn't be surprised if he was then offered a bigger job
 
sheddensbear said:
Warburton underrated the SPL,that was his 1st mistake. He is more flexible now, playing 4 2 3 1. He wanted out do wasn't a long term project. Pedro was a disaster. By the 3rd home game, I said we had regressed as we were losing possession more regularly.
He spent loads and now we realise, not wisely.
Positives Jack,Morelos,Candeias,Alves (not as good as I had hoped) John
Unsure Cardoso,Herrera,Dorrans
Failures Dalcio, Pena,Nemane.
Click to expand...

As yet the only positive I can see from the Pedro era is Alfredo & Dorrans (who is harshly underrated) can’t say i’m convinced yet by the rest (including Bruno)
 
Starting Anew said:
I'd be interested in which of Caixina's signings you consider crazy?

Pena was a gamble we should never have taken at that cost. But the rest all seem pretty sensible.

He didn't get the best performances out of them but he strengthened us at the back, gave us a few players who can head a ball, and bought some finishers and some players with penetration. I don't quite see how you view Mr 'defending and scoring don't matter' as being logical.
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To be honest aside from Jack and Dorrans all of them. The sensible option was McLean, Moult, Walker and Naismith. Which I posted on the old board several times (doesn’t mean I’m right just was my view). Morales looked okay but I’d still take Moult over him. Alves and Cardozo have not impressed me Alves maybe could work but that’s it as far as I’m concerned. So in short the decision to appoint him added to the cash he had to spend and his pay off was an utterly stupid move by the board one predicted by many.

It’s sad that the highlight of this season is PSG being 7-1 up again the scum. Is that what we have become?
 
I think this season’s results show that we’d be much the same.

The frustration for me is that we’ve forked out almost £7-8m to be “much the same”
 
Starting Anew said:
Can argue over the price but that's fairly cheap for a striker. When he's had the chance, he's shown he can hit the net and has scored some significant goals. I'd trust him over Garner who cost more.
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That’s not cheap for a striker who doesn’t score goals. (And I mean that for both players)

Neither are very good to be honest but if I had a choice Garner would get the nod as he offers something in an aerial battle and could provide a plan B option. From what we’ve seen in rangers jersey, Herrera brings nothing to the party imo.
 
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