In a world where King started with us from the bottom and we had a better coach/football set up.

Amstel

Well-Known Member
I've often thought the same thing. The idea of starting again with mostly youths and a few seasoned professionals and then emerging at the end with them battle hardened is a sound one. The problem was McCoist was too lazy to put the work in.

The problem was the youths weren’t good enough. No other Rangers manager has ever give more of a chance to youth than Ally McCoist. Aird,Hutton,Perry,Crawford,Hemmings, Gasparotto, Lewis McLeod, Barry McKay, Andy Mitchell, Andy Murdoch. Loads of youth players were given opportunities during that period from 2013 onward
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
The problem was the youths weren’t good enough. No other Rangers manager has ever give more of a chance to youth than Ally McCoist. Aird,Hutton,Perry,Crawford,Hemmings, Gasparotto, Lewis McLeod, Barry McKay, Andy Mitchell, Andy Murdoch. Loads of youth players were given opportunities during that period from 2013 onward
It depends on the definition of giving youth a chance - not entirely convinced simply playing people solely constitutes giving people a chance.
 

Knightswoodbear

Well-Known Member
He'd recently left Lyon's Academy and had played every minute for France's under-19s as they lifted the Euros at that age group (the only player in the squad to do so).in 2010, was part of the U20 World Cup squad in 2011 then joined us in 2012.
He had also made a couple of appearances for Lyons senior team. Removing any blue tinted specs he had the best pedigree/potential of any of our youth players by a distance.
 

Bar72loyal

Well-Known Member
forgot about that days next time we look it will be remember that time when gerrard got us the 55th title. team is full of class players with a class manager. changed days from Ian Black etc
 

Amstel

Well-Known Member
It depends on the definition of giving youth a chance - not entirely convinced simply playing people solely constitutes giving people a chance.
the definition of giving players a chance - by playing them. What is it the you know he didn’t do with those players. Despite the majority of his time being spent in meetings with Duff & Phelps, Whyte & Green and generally holding the entire football club together. How about people accept that no other Rangers manager has had to operate in the same way as Ally McCoist did during his time as manager. I haven’t forgotten when he said “we don’t do walking away” and he was THE only bit of hope we had. Quite frankly at that time I would’ve settled for just having 11 players in a blue jersey on the pitch
 

Amstel

Well-Known Member
I am happily stating the football model we had during that time was a fucken shambles and if we had bought smarter, scouted better and coached better we would have been better off...

If a better football structure had been in place and we had made additions, achievable additions like McGinn, Robertson and Shankland we would have been in a lot better place as a football club than going down the route we did.....

What was shankland doing in 2013 ? Robertson & Mcginn ? I doubt they would’ve signed for Rangers
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
the definition of giving players a chance - by playing them. What is it the you know he didn’t do with those players. Despite the majority of his time being spent in meetings with Duff & Phelps, Whyte & Green and generally holding the entire football club together. How about people accept that no other Rangers manager has had to operate in the same way as Ally McCoist did during his time as manager. I haven’t forgotten when he said “we don’t do walking away” and he was THE only bit of hope we had. Quite frankly at that time I would’ve settled for just having 11 players in a blue jersey on the pitch
The development and "chance" goes a lot deeper than simply playing players, there has been enough critique of McCoist now from people to establish he most likely wasn't the best coach in the world.

As I said at the start of this this isn't intended to have a dig at McCoist, but since it is going down that track yes his work of the field was admirable, his work as a coach wasn't even accounting for the owners of the club etc - you can still coach people etc - if anything you would have thought that part would be the relief.
 
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RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
What was shankland doing in 2013 ? Robertson & Mcginn ? I doubt they would’ve signed for Rangers
It isn't solely about that season, it was about the entirety of actually attempting to build a club despite being on the lower leagues - it wasn't the mountainous task it was made to look, difficult yes, but if it had been looked at from other or better angles, there was the chance to actually collect talent who would have

A: Served a longer term purpose

B: Not cost a small fortune with no return.

The base premise of a lot of the counter points here seems to be that we needed the likes of Kyle, Sandazza etc and shouldn't have expected better and more progressive than what we saw.

Odd.
 

The Dude

Well-Known Member
It isn't solely about that season, it was about the entirety of actually attempting to build a club despite being on the lower leagues - it wasn't the mountainous task it was made to look.
Its much easier when you willingly disregard a lot of what was going on around the club at the time.
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
Its much easier when you willingly disregard a lot of what was going on around the club at the time.
Two things.

1 - the title of the thread is a decent clue.

2 - at no point have I ignored what went around the club, even if talking about that circumstance I flat out refuse the idea no better work could have been than that which was achieved.
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
Aye cos Seb Faure's the first player in history not to look fit. Surprised Real never just ripped up Eden Hazards contract after he showed up a stone overweight
Yeah, fair point, I should have actually have expected players to be unfit instead - silly me for not expecting that
 

Mustang mad

Well-Known Member
I've often thought the same thing. The idea of starting again with mostly youths and a few seasoned professionals and then emerging at the end with them battle hardened is a sound one. The problem was McCoist was too lazy to put the work in.
Sorry but you cannot solely blame McCoist. Maybe he did share that vision, but also knew if he went down that route and we never got promoted, he would be sacked.
Even back then, we are unforgiving as a fan base and any manager is 3 defeats from the sack.
In summation, a team full of young lads with 3 or 4 old heads to guide them is great in theory but too risky for a club that needed 3 back to back promotions
 

The Dude

Well-Known Member
Yeah, fair point, I should have actually have expected players to be unfit instead - silly me for not expecting that
Its par for the course with players returning after the summer. Remember the several months it took Morelos to get up to speed when he arrived?
 

Mustang mad

Well-Known Member
Absolute non starter if we're talking about the old "project". Guys like black, Kyle, shiels etc. Were brought in because they were deemed to be far better than the immediate competition and thus would get us back up the leagues quickly. The clamour to play a team of kids/prospects still perplexes me to this day. That sort of thing is fine for a club that is content with a 6th or 7th place finish for a few seasons until things "click" or players improve enough to make a real impact. We're Rangers, you simply don't get that luxury here. Jesus Christ half our support are having aneurysms and demanding substitutions or screaming to get the ball into the box if we have a couple of misplaced passes or haven't scored by 15 minutes.

Now if King had been there from 2012 and we'd had a manager worth his salt given decent transfer funds, we could have potentially been back in the top flight within 3 seasons with a domestic cup under our belt. We'll never know.
Said it better than me.
We are the rangers. We don't do projects
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
Which is grand I mean a total exaggeration like and a bit like saying all women have tits, I mean they do, they don't all have tits like Kelly Brook though, or even Seb Faure for that matter - in the same way all footballers don't rock up in the physical state Faure was in and was still in months after his arrival, he was a fat mess.

It was twofold with him, many others during that period of time.

Should the fitness regimes have been better, clearly - it has been discussed endlessly but %^*& sake a bit of professional pride is nice as well, which Faure patently lacks.

Faure turned up in a physical state most punters would have a ridder to walk the street like yet alone claim a wage as a professional football player, but if that's what you look for and accept in a player fair enough.

Fair play for defending it though, funny read if nothing else.
 
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High Society

Well-Known Member
By stating that I don't believe our youth team was good enough to get us out of the lower leagues, that makes it a strange post? You'll need to explain that to me.
it’s strange that you want to look back at pereceived mismanagement 5 years ago in a week where we will be on a cup
Final.
What’s the point apart from dragging up old news
 

Knightswoodbear

Well-Known Member
it’s strange that you want to look back at pereceived mismanagement 5 years ago in a week where we will be on a cup
Final.
What’s the point apart from dragging up old news
Are you for real? The thread is literally full of people commenting and you pick out my posts to call strange? I want to look back at perceived mismanagement? I didn't start the topic, I merely replied with my opinion. Singling out my post, now that's strange.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
We had a set of people involved at all levels in the club who were only interested in extracting as much money out of it as possible, to the detriment of everything else. Whilst it's nice to think 'what if' I don't see any real purpose to it.
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
We had a set of people involved at all levels in the club who were only interested in extracting as much money out of it as possible, to the detriment of everything else. Whilst it's nice to think 'what if' I don't see any real purpose to it.

What's the point in anyone posting on a message board, tis mostly to waste a day at work, little else comes from it....
 

bob1873

Well-Known Member
I've often thought the same thing. The idea of starting again with mostly youths and a few seasoned professionals and then emerging at the end with them battle hardened is a sound one. The problem was McCoist was too lazy to put the work in.
Not sure it was lazy rather more he lacked the skills.
 

Papac

Well-Known Member
What's the point in anyone posting on a message board, tis mostly to waste a day at work, little else comes from it....
Yes but you may as well say what if Qatari oil families (or whatever they are) bought us instead of City.

Have some more fun with it.
 

RFC4ME

Well-Known Member
Yes but you may as well say what if Qatari oil families (or whatever they are) bought us instead of City.

Have some more fun with it.
Ehmm aye maybe, kind of the joy of a forum though eh - folks get to say what they want, speak about they want etc - bosh on with that chat etc if you see fit.
 

Prod Wallace

Well-Known Member
There's a fair bit of hindsight going on here though. We know they've gone on to be top players but remember they signed for Hibs (in the championship) and Dundee Utd at the time and Robertson had been released from the scum. It's not like it was obvious that they'd have gone on to become the players they have.
Fair bit of hindshite you mean surely.
 

Wilkinsvolley

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
It’s east to say McCoist shouldvr players kids but we needed to get up through the leagues ASAP. It’s possible we could’ve done it wit kids but equally we may not have. Our players were being kicked all over the park and we could’ve ended a few young careers or just not have the physicality to push through. We’ll never know but it’s easy to say we could have should have. We’re going for the most important league title in our history and the arguments the same. Imaging we just play a few kids and drop away in the league? Nobody will say “that’s fine because we played some kids” it would be a failure no matter what.
 

High Society

Well-Known Member
Are you for real? The thread is literally full of people commenting and you pick out my posts to call strange? I want to look back at perceived mismanagement? I didn't start the topic, I merely replied with my opinion. Singling out my post, now that's strange.
apologies KB my comments were aimed at the OP !
 

tazzabear

Well-Known Member
I've often thought the same thing. The idea of starting again with mostly youths and a few seasoned professionals and then emerging at the end with them battle hardened is a sound one. The problem was McCoist was too lazy to put the work in.
How many times has this formula failed in competitive matches in both Scotland and elsewhere?

Edit: this was typed hours ago!
 
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Disraeli

Well-Known Member
The sad truth is that we would never have grown in the way the OP envisions until Ally was punted.clAnd the majority of our fan base would have refused to allow that to happen until we got to the Championship and began struggling .

Ally is my hero and stands alongside the greatest of Rangers but he was a catastrophically bad manager.
 

sirstevefleming

Well-Known Member
You would require general intelligence, organisation and football know how to cultivate a team of yoofs through the lower leagues - we didn’t have management with these skills
 

Bobans27

Well-Known Member
All conjecture obviously, but a King led Rangers with McCoist as manager could easily have achieved great things.

we were absolutely flying in the League under McCoist till the sh*t hit the fan off the field.

no other manager in Rangers history has had to or likely ever will have to face those circumstances. Subsequent year will prove McCoist couldn’t cut it, however he was operating under a board who sold everything that wasn’t nailed down and at one point was happy to give up league titles for an easier ride.

anyway, had King taken over at the time, we’d probably have won the CL by now....
 

WalterSandy

Well-Known Member
We theoretically could have had a very good core of players if a coach had been able to sell a solid vision, is that fair to say?

I appreciate it might have been difficult to attract and identify these players but it does offer a glimpse of what slipped through the net, or markets we could still be exploring at least?

The obvious being Robertson, McGinn who was achievable when leaving St Mirren he went to Hibs, Allen, McLean, Shankland and in another scenario possibly even Christie.

This isn't a way to dwell on the past, it was more just a look back at our future and a theoretical how it could and should have been even despite the kick in the balls we took.

With correct investment that period could have been a lot more enjoyable than it was.

***this isn't even just a way as to kick the shit out of McCoist either as it is easy to say things with hindsight.
Ffs get out more....
 

HandsomeHead

Well-Known Member
I know it’s hypothetical, but the only time King and co. could realistically have gained control of the club before they did would have been if they’d managed to head Whyte off at the pass, and even then there seems to have been bank related skullduggery to ensure that never happened.

But if they’d managed to get in there before Green - unlikely given the nefarious machinations that went on post admin - would we have put a better team on the park?

I actually think the answer is no.

King was very supportive of McCoist and I think would have given him as long as he got anyway to get it right - we did romp through the bottom two divisions remember.

Only once he failed in the Championship would that have changed, which again is what happened, at which point King and co. did gain control of the club and had a series of false starts under Warburton, Caixinha, Murty and a botched attempt to lure McInnes away from Aberdeen before hitting payday with Gerrard.

So in short, no, I think it would have panned out more or less the way it did.
 
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