Interesting stats re Joe and Niko

G

Govanfrnt

Well-Known Member
Goldson/Worrall have played 10 games together since his signing on 26th Aug conceding 8. Of those 10 games we won 3 Drew 5 and lost 2. A win percentage of 33% and loss percentage of 20%

Worrall was at fault for goals V Dundee, Killie and villareal away and has been criticised in a number of games recently due to his poor performances

Goldson/Katic played 17 games and conceded 15. We won 9 of those games giving us a win percentage of 54% We, drew 6 and lost 2 albeit both away fixtures v Celtic and Spartak which gives us a loss percentage of 11%.

Prior to 26th Aug this partnership had conceded 3/10 goals.
Since then the same pairing have let in 12 goals in 7 games. Katic was hooked in the hamilton win and again at half time during the motherwell game.

Conclusion for me is worralls arrival has upset a working partnership and Gerrards man management of katic has shattered the lad.

Gerrard needs to go back to Niko and get him back to where we know he can get to because his attacking threat has been as much a miss to the team as his defensive qualities.

For those ready to come at me with Gareth McAuley suggestions, he for me is 3rd choice behind Katic/Goldson. At 38-39 the last thing we need is to start relying on a player whos best years are long behind him.

Get worrall out and get back to what worked Stevie
 
Last edited:
Katic actually looks the more of a threat from set pieces than Worral and Goldson, although I’ll contradict myself a bit Goldson has scored 3 compared to just the two I think from Katic.
 
We need Katic back in the centre of that defence and quick, the way he was dumbed has messed with the lad's head, a rebuild in the lad's moral is needed as fast as possible, and let us get back to playing the way we did at the start of the season?
 
Coda said:
Katic has been honking when given the opportunities recently. There’s a reason he hasn’t played. Worral being hopeless doesn’t make Katic better.

McAuley has looked the better option out of the three and should have played today with Goldson.
Click to expand...

You're missing my point entirely. When did Katics form start to dip? Look at the stats prior to Worrall. Hes a confidence player and needs an arm round the shoulder from Stevie
 
Govanfrnt-f said:
You're missing my point entirely. When did Katics form start to dip? Look at the stats prior to Worrall. Hes a confidence player and needs an arm round the shoulder from Stevie
Click to expand...

I’m not missing any point. He was injured, then came back in and was incredibly poor. He’s rightly out the team and all the stats in the world doesn’t change his last two really bad performances.
 
Tavernier Goldson Katic Barisic Was shaping up to be a warrior like defense that I could see barely conceding a goal against the dross in Scotland.

Unfortunately an injury to Barasic and the dropping of big Katic (who was running through walls for us) to accommodate the arrogant swine Worral, has severely effed us at the back.
 
RFC97 said:
Tavernier Goldson Katic Barisic Was shaping up to be a warrior like defense that I could see barely conceding a goal against the dross in Scotland.

Unfortunately an injury to Barasic and the dropping of big Katic (who was running through walls for us) to accommodate the arrogant swine Worral, has severely effed us at the back.
Click to expand...

Nail on the head. Great post
 
RFC97 said:
Tavernier Goldson Katic Barisic Was shaping up to be a warrior like defense that I could see barely conceding a goal against the dross in Scotland.

Unfortunately an injury to Barasic and the dropping of big Katic (who was running through walls for us) to accommodate the arrogant swine Worral, has severely effed us at the back.
Click to expand...

Can we stick to the facts.

Katic was injured, he didn’t get initially dropped. He then came back in and was poor. He wasn’t dropped to accommodate Worral.
 
RFC97 said:
Tavernier Goldson Katic Barisic Was shaping up to be a warrior like defense that I could see barely conceding a goal against the dross in Scotland.

Unfortunately an injury to Barasic and the dropping of big Katic (who was running through walls for us) to accommodate the arrogant swine Worral, has severely effed us at the back.
Click to expand...
Hard to disagree with any of that.
We need get these 4 back together for a run of games and get the solidity back.
 
Coda said:
Can we stick to the facts.

Katic was injured, he didn’t get initially dropped. He then came back in and was poor. He wasn’t dropped to accommodate Worral.
Click to expand...

He was never injured per se, Gerrard just said he looked ‘jaded’. Worral has looked dreadful on a number of occasions yet hasn’t been treated the same way as Katic (who only looked poor on two halves of football due to his confidence being shot).

Can you explain that?
 
I've got a theory that Worrall might have a clause in his contract stipulating that he must play a certain amount of minutes/games in Europe.

Regardless of the Katic/Worrall preference, I'd still say that we need a better centre half. That said we should be developing players contracted to us before those owned by another club in my view, unless we have an option to buy at a pre-agreed price in place. So on that basis Niko wins over Joe for me. Joe should only play to spell Niko, not the other way about.
 
Katic looked absolutely solid in the 1st 5/6 games of the season and the whole defence weren't leaking goals. Im fckd if i know what happened but the guy doesnt go from fearless and willing to die for the cause to sh!te in a couple of weeks so get him back in playing consistently and give him the confidence hes the number 1 cb! I actually thought he looked the better of the 2 with him and Goldson
 
RFC97 said:
He was never injured per se, Gerrard just said he looked ‘jaded’. Worral has looked dreadful on a number of occasions yet hasn’t been treated the same way as Katic (who only looked poor on two halves of football due to his confidence being shot).

Can you explain that?
Click to expand...

He came back injured from international duty. He then got fit, but Gerrard said he was jaded. He wasn’t dropped for Worral initially. That’s a myth that has been perpetuated on here.

Worral has been better than Katic. I couldn’t care as to the reasons why Katic has been poor. If his confidence has been shot, he shouldn’t be playing. If his confidence needs massaged, then he’s at the wrong football club.

Once again, Worral being dodgy doesn’t make Katic better. I’m confident Katic will be quality in the long run for us, but right now he’s clearly not ready to be a reliable first team regular. McAuley is the best of the three partners for Goldson.
 
Coda said:
Can we stick to the facts.

Katic was injured, he didn’t get initially dropped. He then came back in and was poor. He wasn’t dropped to accommodate Worral.
Click to expand...

We're sticking to facts. Katic was dropped out the blue to the bench for the villareal game for new signing worrall? Within 30 seconds worrall was at fault for Baccas goal

Katic got back into the team for the following St Johnstone and Ayr united routs in which he played well and even scored

Katic was then benched/dropped for worrall for the livi game (got beat) and the Rapid and Hearts victories

He came back in and got 78mins at hamilton before being hooked for worrall. Katic missed the nex 4 games (again on the bench) and wasnt brought back until spartak away then at motherwell where again he was hauled off

You must admit this hasnt been handled at all well
 
RFC97 said:
He was never injured per se, Gerrard just said he looked ‘jaded’. Worral has looked dreadful on a number of occasions yet hasn’t been treated the same way as Katic (who only looked poor on two halves of football due to his confidence being shot).

Can you explain that?
Click to expand...
That's my beef.

Other players blatantly not performing are being given multiple chances in the team and Katic has been dropped altogether.

The horseshit about "load" from a sports science perspective doesn't add up either when you look at the minutes Tavernier, Goldson, Morelos and Candeieas have had in comparison to those in and out on a more rotational basis.

I would just rather SG picks what he thinks is his best 11 and stick with it until injury or suspension or unless someone performs to a level they can't be ignored for a start.
 
Govanfrnt-f said:
We're sticking to facts. Katic was dropped out the blue to the bench for the villareal game for new signing worrall? Within 30 seconds worrall was at fault for Baccas goal

Katic got back into the team for the following St Johnstone and Ayr united routs in which he played well and even scored

Katic was then benched/dropped for worrall for the livi game (got beat) and the Rapid and Hearts victories

He came back in and got 78mins at hamilton before being hooked for worrall. Katic missed the nex 4 games (again on the bench) and wasnt brought back until spartak away then at motherwell where again he was hauled off

You must admit this hasnt been handled at all well
Click to expand...

If we’re sticking to facts, we’d acknowledge that he wasn’t dropped for Worral. He came back injured from international duty with the Croatian u21s.
 
david1982 said:
That's my beef.

Other players blatantly not performing are being given multiple chances in the team and Katic has been dropped altogether.

The horseshit about "load" from a sports science perspective doesn't add up either when you look at the minutes Tavernier, Goldson, Morelos and Candeieas have had in comparison to those in and out on a more rotational basis.

I would just rather SG picks what he thinks is his best 11 and stick with it until injury or suspension or unless someone performs to a level they can't be ignored for a start.
Click to expand...

Agreed. However Gerard’s penchant for tinkering and the suspicions around required game time for loanees (which I’ve no idea if true) worries me that we won’t see it.
 
I would also say I'm amazed both on Wednesday and today we didn't try 352 v ten men given we tried it away to Motherwell in an 11 v 11.....
 
Coda said:
Katic has been honking when given the opportunities recently. There’s a reason he hasn’t played. Worral being hopeless doesn’t make Katic better.
Click to expand...

Cannot disagree that Katic has been poor in the few outings since being surprisingly dropped away to Villareal.

None of us know the exact reason for him being dropped but I think it has shattered the lads confidence. No player likes to get dropped but if you are playing poorly you at least can accept it. Katic was, in the main, building a solid partnership with Goldson at the time and must have been, like the majority of the support, surprised and shocked to be replaced by Worrall.

Worrall just does not convince me that he is good enough and I would prefer Katic to be restored as Goldson's partner but as said earlier his recent performances have been less than convincing.
 
Coda said:
If we’re sticking to facts, we’d acknowledge that he wasn’t dropped for Worral. He came back injured from international duty with the Croatian u21s.
Click to expand...

But he was never injured. Where are you getting that from?
All we heard was he looked ‘jaded’.

In any case, it still doesn’t address the point as to why Worral gets away with poor performances by continuing to get game time but Katic is treated far more harshly.

To make this worse Katic is our man, Worral will be shot back to Forest come end of the season.

Our best defense was with Goldson and Katic.
 
All good teams build from the back...Its the foundations of your team. Just look back over the years...Weir and Cuellar, Ferdinand and Vidic, Terry and Carvalho, Puyol and Pique etc...

Centre backs do less running that any outfield players I would say, if we are making changes we still need to keep the core together.
 
Govanfrnt-f said:
Goldson/Worrall have played 10 games together since his signing on 26th Aug conceding 8. Of those 10 games we won 3 Drew 5 and lost 2. A win percentage of 33% and loss percentage of 20%

Worrall was at fault for goals V Dundee, Killie and villareal away and has been criticised in a number of games recently due to his poor performances

Goldson/Katic played 17 games and conceded 15. We won 9 of those games giving us a win percentage of 54% We, drew 6 and lost 2 albeit both away fixtures v Celtic and Spartak which gives us a loss percentage of 11%.

Prior to 26th Aug this partnership had conceded 3/10 goals.
Since then the same pairing have let in 12 goals in 7 games. Katic was hooked in the hamilton win and again at half time during the motherwell game.

Conclusion for me is worralls arrival has upset a working partnership and Gerrards man management of katic has shattered the lad.

Gerrard needs to go back to Niko and get him back to where we know he can get to because his attacking threat has been as much a miss to the team as his defensive qualities.

For those ready to come at me with Gareth McAuley suggestions, he for me is 3rd choice behind Katic/Goldson. At 38-39 the last thing we need is to start relying on a player whos best years are long behind him.

Get worrall out and get back to what worked Stevie
Click to expand...
With you there 100%
 
Coda said:
If we’re sticking to facts, we’d acknowledge that he wasn’t dropped for Worral. He came back injured from international duty with the Croatian u21s.
Click to expand...

Im sorry but ive no idea where you're getting this. He played against celtic then was benched v Belarus u21s then he came back and played well in the full 90mins against dundee in a 4-0 win then he was dropped for the villareal game. I understand this to be the case because he still made the bench

Even if you're saying he was not 100% through injury around that time he still returned for the 2 games following villareal and played well there only to be dropped and on the bench again v Livy.
 
Last edited:
Its an absolute disgrace what has happened to Katic. Really has annoyed me so much.

Especially being replaced by fucking worral, who i have absolutely no time for
 
Angrybluebear said:
Katic actually looks the more of a threat from set pieces than Worral and Goldson, although I’ll contradict myself a bit Goldson has scored 3 compared to just the two I think from Katic.
Click to expand...
Goldson has had a lot more opportunities to score, i think Katic would have more with the same amount of starts.
 
McAuley should have at least been on the bench. He is far more likely to create something in the air from a set piece.

I would have given him the last 10 minutes and put him on their 18 yard line to attack every high ball that we swung into the box.

Nothing was coming from open play and McAuley is probably the best headerer of a ball we have.
 
The stats are pointless without listing the opposition both have played against as well. Worrall has played most of the European games so our win ratio would be skewed right away due to Worrall playing in harder fixtures.

Katic has been a bombscare in his last three appearances. I'm confident Gerrard knows what he's doing, he sees the players training every day.

Our main issue is opening teams up who sit with a low block against us so I'm not sure how Katic solves that problem lads.
 
I would love to see the Goldson and Katic partnership re-united again.

No more rotating the CB area please, we need consistency in there!!
 
Worrall will get rag dolled against the Shettlestons. He does not have that starting speed or match intelligence imo to take on any of their forwards.
 
The biggest myth of them all is that Katic was dropped due to injury.

An exact quote from Gerrard is that he looked "jaded".
 
temperance said:
The biggest problem has been the constant changing of the central defensive pairing, it seems to be changed every game, he needs to decide what is his best pairing and stick with them,
Click to expand...

The constant changes have had a severe effect it doesn't help Worrall is poor and is clearly a favourite with Gerrard.

Tavernier Goldson McAuley/Katic Barasic should be playing every game imo the only decision is who partners Goldson permanently.
 
Not sure you can draw too much from those stats. Football has become a stats game more recently. Not sure if it over complicates a simple game. For me Worrall is a bad defender. Simple as. Katic didnt deserve to be dropped and now isn't the same player. We need a settled back 4 and we need to buy a creative midfielder.
 
RFC97 said:
Tavernier Goldson Katic Barisic Was shaping up to be a warrior like defense that I could see barely conceding a goal against the dross in Scotland.

Unfortunately an injury to Barasic and the dropping of big Katic (who was running through walls for us) to accommodate the arrogant swine Worral, has severely effed us at the back.
Click to expand...
An arrogant swine. Ffs
 
Now and forever said:
We have short memories. It wasn't that long ago ee were shouting Katic had to be benched.
Click to expand...

Dropping him for no reason for Worrall seems to have affected him badly. He was probably our most impressive signing prior to that.

Was sat beside 2 Forest fans at home to Livingston and they didn't rate Worrall at all either.
 
While I prefer Katic to Worral let’s not gloss over the fact that he was just as bad as Worral has ever been when we played Hamilton and was hooked and he was also terrible in Moscow when we looked like conceding every time they went forward. That’s probably why he hasn’t been given as much of a chance recently - he has to be ready to come in any time and show his ability.
 
Coda said:
Can we stick to the facts.

Katic was injured, he didn’t get initially dropped. He then came back in and was poor. He wasn’t dropped to accommodate Worral.
Click to expand...

He was in Villareal. Katic wasn’t injured but lost his place for no reason.
The OP is correct the manager has caused his own problems for our defence.
 
Rangers defender Nikola Katic has withdrawn from Croatia U-21 duty due to injury - and there's also bad news for Borna Barišić.

Katic was an unused substitute in the 3-1 win
A tweet on the official Croatian national team account confirmed Katic had been forced to pull out of the squad with an unspecified problem.

Barisic, meanwhile, was named in the senior Croatia setup for a Nations League clash with England but boss Zlatko Dalic has revealed he's suffered a muscular injur
Click to expand...

Source: https://www.followfollow.com/forum/threads/katic-injured-pulls-out-of-under-21s.50012/

Also a quick Google search for Niko Katic injury gives links suggesting the same thing.

So anyone who is telling us he categorically wasn't injured is just peddling pish.
 
Lies damn lies and statistics, are we forgetting Katic played against the mights of Shkupi, Osijek, Maribor, Ufa when he made the step up at Spartak to an elite level side he hardly covered himself in glory
Stats are Bollox and try to make a complex decisions appear black and white, I'll trust what SG sees in training
 
Grant Patrick said:
Lies damn lies and statistics, are we forgetting Katic played against the mights of Shkupi, Osijek, Maribor, Ufa when he made the step up at Spartak to an elite level side he hardly covered himself in glory
Stats are Bollox and try to make a complex decisions appear black and white, I'll trust what SG sees in training
Click to expand...

Goldson was worse against Spartak but keeps getting picked.
 
Agreed but along with McGregor, Goldson was a major reason we even reached the group stages, and massively assisted in the stats the OP is quoting
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Latest posts

Back
Top