Is it because he is the captain he will not be dropped?

After the goal his head went down and you could see the sheer shock on his fave, he is not inspiring or leading others with performances like this and needs taken out the firing line for a few games so he can regroup.
Can you clarify what you're referring to when you say this?

And I'm not talking about the meaning of the metaphor, I'm looking for some kind of example.
 
He's had a torrid time at Tynecastle down the years.

I genuinely thought Tav was brilliant last season, easily our best player alongside Morelos. But truthfully, he’s been an error prone defender in every season he’s been here bar last season. If you had time and the know how you could definitely make a decent sized compilation video of glaring opportunities the opposition have had as a direct result of his defensive frailties/negligence.

However, those defensive deficiencies are often offset by the fact that he can be brilliant going forward, the issue for him right now is he’s in rotten attacking form too and thus his overall game at the minute is well below par and costing us.
 
I can’t think of anyone who has performed so poorly with horrendous individual errors that have impacted our chances in Europe and at the top of the league and nothing will be done about it.

Let’s see if Gerrard rightly leaves him out or having him constantly making huge errors in big games when it matters letting us down and down again and again or is it more hassle than it’s worth the unrest it would cause?

We are hardly in a position were our manager can lose the dressing room with such call as it could be catastrophic to our title chances but should we just stick with it until we get a better captain at a better time?

I think we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t at the moment.

How many threads about Tav do you need to make man?

Give it a f*ckin rest you sad wee guy.
 
No idea what people were watching yesterday, but nothing about Taverniers body language suggested that the mistakes got to him. He was still adventurous with the ball and was still getting into the attacking third regularly.

Tav certainly doesn't hide and is continually involved. There may be an argument that the eagerness to make amends creates an increased urgency in his play and some questionable decision-making.
 
Tav certainly doesn't hide and is continually involved. There may be an argument that the eagerness to make amends creates an increased urgency in his play and some questionable decision-making.
I could see that to some degree. I thought yesterday he had a couple of crosses that he hit too early instead of taking on the left back or looking for a short pass.

That may have been what Beale asked him to do, but I doubt it.
 
Well I mean, it is.
He's played 18 competitive games this season and has had two poor games. We don't have many players who are as consistently good as he is. Perhaps the only player who's been as consistent as that this season is Morelos.
That's simply not true though.
Tav's been a shadow of his normal attacking self this season.
He's had a couple of good games,plenty average games and quite a few horror shows.
Continuing to play him will be to his detriment in the long run.
Part of the manager's job is to protect his players.
 
How about sourcing a right back who can defend first and foremost, and let the guys further up the park be more creative with the confidence that there’s another competent defender behind them?

yeah I’m sure Ojo, Arfield and co are struggling going forward because they can’t get their minds off Tavs defending
 
Can you clarify what you're referring to when you say this?

And I'm not talking about the meaning of the metaphor, I'm looking for some kind of example.
I mean as soon as he realised what he done the camera panned to him and his head was down with a face of complete shock, thats fair enough but i would rather see him trying to jee up the players around him after a horrific 10 minute period of the game.

I would want my captain to get into the players and try and get a reaction, you never saw any of that.

The only time i see him do that is after we score when he tells them to keep their concentration etc, i never see it when the chips are down.
 
The problem is, what you see as “poor” by Tav is actually still a decent level in comparison. His errors have been costly but take those out the equation and he’s not been bad, he’s just not been his usual self
Can't agree JW, nothing 'Tav-esque' is coming off for him these days. He used to be able to bring a ball down from a height by jumping up for it, was sort of a signature move, it now bobbles away. The weight of his passes is wrong, positioning is erratic, his timing is off, his decision-making is poor, and his once terrific crosses into the box and dead-balls are not good enough. Bloody McLean came on yesterday and targetted him, picked him out as weak, the captain of Rangers.
He's in a dreadful slump and shouldn't be under the spotlight but at Rangers and as Club Captain there's no hiding.
Scottish kickba' is merciless, it's no place for an individual like Tav when he's not at his best.
 
Last edited:
That's simply not true though.
Tav's been a shadow of his normal attacking self this season.
He's had a couple of good games,plenty average games and quite a few horror shows.
Continuing to play him will be to his detriment in the long run.
Part of the manager's job is to protect his players.
It is true though.

I don't want to reduce this purely to numbers, but it's clear that he's still a brilliant attacking player. Second in expected assists, easily the highest expected goals for a full back, even when you exclude penalties.

He's not getting goals or assists at the moment, but the numbers indicate he's just been unlucky and this will positively regress to the mean.

People are more than welcome to get off the Tav Train, but don't expect to find a seat when you try to clamber back on when those goals and assists start to come.
 
I mean as soon as he realised what he done the camera panned to him and his head was down with a face of complete shock, thats fair enough but i would rather see him trying to jee up the players around him after a horrific 10 minute period of the game.

I would want my captain to get into the players and try and get a reaction, you never saw any of that.

The only time i see him do that is after we score when he tells them to keep their concentration etc, i never see it when the chips are down.
It may be heresy to some on here, but I'd rather leave the man-management of individual players to Gerrard, who genuinely appears to be very good at it.

Captains should lead by example and represent the Club in a good light publicly, in my opinion there isn't much more to the role than that. The days of Graeme Souness-types captaining a side are pretty much done.
 
It may be heresy to some on here, but I'd rather leave the man-management of individual players to Gerrard, who genuinely appears to be very good at it.

Captains should lead by example and represent the Club in a good light publicly, in my opinion there isn't much more to the role than that. The days of Graeme Souness-types captaining a side are pretty much done.
I know football has changed these days and i know we dont have leaders like Souness etc but i just sometimes wish for a bit more fire and passion when things are not going our way, it might not make any difference.

My own view is that he should be taken out the firing line for a couple of weeks in the hope that when he comes back in he is back to his best.
 
The problem is do we just let him continue making these errors and say costing us in the League Cup matches or Europe and say ocht he is the captain he can do it as many times as he wants.
 
I know football has changed these days and i know we dont have leaders like Souness etc but i just sometimes wish for a bit more fire and passion when things are not going our way, it might not make any difference.

My own view is that he should be taken out the firing line for a couple of weeks in the hope that when he comes back in he is back to his best.
Fire and brimstone only serves to make the punters feel better, if we're honest.

It's why Souness isn't a good modern day manager.
 
Well I’ve seen Tavernier’s entire Rangers career and the chances aren’t tiny at all. In fact he’s got a fairly sizeable rap sheet as far as defensive gaffs are concerned.
Yes going a long way back I agree and I posted on here 3 seasons ago my concerns that if we continue with him at full back then we will continue to lose points every season, it gives me no pleasure to say I was correct but I got pelters on here for daring to say it.
 
It is true though.

I don't want to reduce this purely to numbers, but it's clear that he's still a brilliant attacking player. Second in expected assists, easily the highest expected goals for a full back, even when you exclude penalties.

He's not getting goals or assists at the moment, but the numbers indicate he's just been unlucky and this will positively regress to the mean.

People are more than welcome to get off the Tav Train, but don't expect to find a seat when you try to clamber back on when those goals and assists start to come.
Trouble is they only come against weaker teams and mostly at home games not against stronger teams or big league games
 
It will partially be his role as captain, it will also be the credit he has in the bank for a few seasons of largely consistent performances and it’ll also be down to what the manager & coaches see in training and conversation with Tav every day.

I’m not a fan of captains being dropped - it is often the start of the end for them.
I’ve never been a huge fan of Tav as a defender, I think he is too casual at key moments but the manager has made him a key part of the side and clearly has faith in him.
 
Gerrard doesn't strike me as the kind of shitebag manager who would be afraid to drop a player from the team, captain or not, so I think we can put that notion to bed.

Gerrard strikes me as the kind of manager who wants to play his best 11, whenever possible, to suit the system he wants his team to play.

That system involves his FB's getting forward and contributing heavily to our attacking play.

You drop Tav then you have a pretty big f*cking hole in that system, Polster nor Flanagan can do that as well as Tav. In fact there aren't many RB's in the country who can do it as well as Tav.

No denying that Tav needs a kick up the arse when it comes to such costly mistakes, but the pain of dropping him from the starting 11 will be far more significant than any gain as things stand.
 
I think its fair to say he would have been 'rested' by now if he hadn't had the armband.

I don’t think it’s just because he’s the captain he’s not been rested, he’s integral to the way we play and we don’t have a backup who can do what he can do but it’s abundantly clear Tav has lost form and I think that’s probably down to needing a rest as he’s only human and has played a massive amount of games for us over a sustained period of time, probably the most of any other player at the club.

It could be argued perhaps a little complacency has crept in too, only he knows that but it’s up to the manager to address the matter as Captain or not no player should be immune from being dropped or rested and I think it would do the player some good just to recharge and refocus and shake things up a bit as I do think we have too much reliance on Tav as he’s a key player in an attacking sense, takes penalties, free kicks, and corners and I think how we play it can be a bit too predictable at times.
 
Last edited:
I really genuinely hope Tav gets dropped for a couple games so people realise how much of an asset he is to the team. I think polster is a great player, solid in defensive terms. But is no way capable of doing what Tav does for 90 mins in terms of making those runs up and down the wing, running diagonally from rb and dragging players out of position to allow space for our midfield and attackers to run into. The guys going through a tough spell at the moment and we should be backing the guy, not trying to bomb him out the team! Let’s stick together bears
 
I can’t think of anyone who has performed so poorly with horrendous individual errors that have impacted our chances in Europe and at the top of the league and nothing will be done about it.

Let’s see if Gerrard rightly leaves him out or having him constantly making huge errors in big games when it matters letting us down and down again and again or is it more hassle than it’s worth the unrest it would cause?

We are hardly in a position were our manager can lose the dressing room with such call as it could be catastrophic to our title chances but should we just stick with it until we get a better captain at a better time?

I think we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t at the moment.
The problem is he tries to hard he has to take every free kick corner etc etc and he is just not good enough period.
 
I think it’s also because the alternative isn’t great. On form Tavernier is a really good player for us, he probably hopes he’ll snap out of it and find that form. But I do think it’s went too far now and he needs hooked.

Polster might not be great, but if he can get through 90 minutes without gift wrapping a goal for the opposition then he’s already doing better than Tavernier has been lately.

This.
He's unlikely to be "rested" & he's no one pushing him for his place.

That coupled with the fact he's captain means he's far too comfortable IMO.
 
We need a candeias type in front of him or gets caught up the park nearly everytime he goes cause ojo doesn't track back for him. With Jack missing from the team to cover aswell leaves him even more exposed
 
Tavs no been the same player since candieas left.

2 of them worked brilliant together. Candieas would cover if tav was up and both worked back. Right hand side was our strongest for a while there.
 
Tavs no been the same player since candieas left.

2 of them worked brilliant together. Candieas would cover if tav was up and both worked back. Right hand side was our strongest for a while there.

I'm sorry, this is also nonsense.

Daniel Candeias leaving has nothing to do with JT making stupid errors like the one at the weekend and in the Young Boys match.

It's a flaw to his game that's always been there, he needs to make better decisions when he's in such a precarious position of the pitch, that's all.

Overall I don't think Tav has been terrible this season, in fact I think he's been pretty good in most of the games he's played but I also don't buy into this he's missing DC argument.
 
I'm sorry, this is also nonsense.

Daniel Candeias leaving has nothing to do with JT making stupid errors like the one at the weekend and in the Young Boys match.

It's a flaw to his game that's always been there, he needs to make better decisions when he's in such a precarious position of the pitch, that's all.

Overall I don't think Tav has been terrible this season, in fact I think he's been pretty good in most of the games he's played but I also don't buy into this he's missing DC argument.
Thts fare enough respect ur view mate.

Just my opinion at the end of the day
 
I'm sorry, this is also nonsense.

Daniel Candeias leaving has nothing to do with JT making stupid errors like the one at the weekend and in the Young Boys match.

It's a flaw to his game that's always been there, he needs to make better decisions when he's in such a precarious position of the pitch, that's all.

Overall I don't think Tav has been terrible this season, in fact I think he's been pretty good in most of the games he's played but I also don't buy into this he's missing DC argument.

Also the fact Candeias hardly played in the second half of last season when Tavernier was in great form means it's complete bollocks.
 
I think it’s also because the alternative isn’t great. On form Tavernier is a really good player for us, he probably hopes he’ll snap out of it and find that form. But I do think it’s went too far now and he needs hooked.

Polster might not be great, but if he can get through 90 minutes without gift wrapping a goal for the opposition then he’s already doing better than Tavernier has been lately.

This is the main point. No one is saying Polster or Flanagan is better than Tavernier but this situation currently cannot continue. Simply need a player that does the basics currently.
 
I can’t think of anyone who has performed so poorly with horrendous individual errors that have impacted our chances in Europe and at the top of the league and nothing will be done about it.

Let’s see if Gerrard rightly leaves him out or having him constantly making huge errors in big games when it matters letting us down and down again and again or is it more hassle than it’s worth the unrest it would cause?

We are hardly in a position were our manager can lose the dressing room with such call as it could be catastrophic to our title chances but should we just stick with it until we get a better captain at a better time?

I think we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t at the moment.

Yes
 
Ojo isn't the captain and should have been dropped well before now so it's not exclusive to the captain.
Hopfully now Kent's back and Murphy not far away we wont see him again missing Jack aswel tbh I'd send him back he offers nothing and looks lazy a lot of the Time
 
I can’t think of anyone who has performed so poorly with horrendous individual errors that have impacted our chances in Europe and at the top of the league and nothing will be done about it.

Let’s see if Gerrard rightly leaves him out or having him constantly making huge errors in big games when it matters letting us down and down again and again or is it more hassle than it’s worth the unrest it would cause?

We are hardly in a position were our manager can lose the dressing room with such call as it could be catastrophic to our title chances but should we just stick with it until we get a better captain at a better time?

I think we are damned if we do and damned if we don’t at the moment.
Maybe it's because he's the best we have in that position.
 
He doesn’t get dropped because he is, far and away, our best option at right-back. Nothing to do with being Captain.

Even in his current run of poor form Tav is, by a considerable distance, our best option.
 
Last edited:
Doesn't matter armband or no armband.... he needs to be dropped because of his performances and continual costly mistakes. He cannot be relied upon and this is not 1 game .. we have had a few seasons of this!

Re: captain. I know it's easier said than done but by God I miss a Ferguson style leader.. someone who will drive the team on days like yesterday and not accept performances like that.

Being a captain of Rangers is more than just an armband and doing pr off the pitch, it's being the guy on the pitch who won't accept 2nd best, who will fight to the end and push his teammates to fight like him as well.

Ryan Jack is as close as we could get to being that leader and would thrive in it.

The sooner we make the change the better imo.
 
Doesn't matter armband or no armband.... he needs to be dropped because of his performances and continual costly mistakes. He cannot be relied upon and this is not 1 game .. we have had a few seasons of this!

Re: captain. I know it's easier said than done but by God I miss a Ferguson style leader.. someone who will drive the team on days like yesterday and not accept performances like that.

Being a captain of Rangers is more than just an armband and doing pr off the pitch, it's being the guy on the pitch who won't accept 2nd best, who will fight to the end and push his teammates to fight like him as well.

Ryan Jack is as close as we could get to being that leader and would thrive in it.

The sooner we make the change the better imo.
The captain should be the on-field embodiment of the manager plus a big dollop of example-setting.
 
Back
Top