Is Klopp a better manager than Pep?
- Thread starter easton78
- Start date
CR5
Well-Known Member
Thought the point record was last season for whatever reason, fair enough.
It's ultimately success at Barcelona, Bayern and City vs success at Liverpool and Dortmund. The latter is a bit more impressive.
gizmico1986
Well-Known Member
Matching points totals mean absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. Just admit your wee hero is on the downward spiral.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
Forget the points total then, they still lost to the same arsenal team. I think you’re definitely better suited to watching oiled up bodybuilders roll around a ring groping each other than watching fitbaw mate.
ClockworkOrange
Well-Known Member
Unlike some on here I've not really as invested in this argument but I think the better-manager argument isn't always as interesting as the better-achievements one.
Pep's successes at Barcelona were incredible but it was achieved in a league where there's (usually, at least) one other team to beat. And while his stuff in Europe was brilliant, he did it by inheriting three of the greatest players of all time - all of whom he said that without he'd have been managing in the second division.
His reign at Bayern is pretty much forgettable, I think. I loved how he went there instead of England but what he did there was pretty much in line with how most managers get on there. It was the equivalent of taking on the Celtic job here.
At City he's amassed the most expensive club team in football history and carried on the work of those who'd won the league before him. There is a direct correlation in almost every league in history with the amount of money spent and the number of leagues won.
All very nice stuff, but he's taken over the richest, most financially backed teams in each of the leagues he's gone to after Barcelona. It's all a bit of a waste, really.
He might go onto win the Champions' League this year - it wouldn't be unexpected - but his grinding success at big teams isn't really awe-inspiring, is it?
As I say, not a hill I'm prepared to die on that others (madly enough on a Rangers forum) seem to want to.
Pep's successes at Barcelona were incredible but it was achieved in a league where there's (usually, at least) one other team to beat. And while his stuff in Europe was brilliant, he did it by inheriting three of the greatest players of all time - all of whom he said that without he'd have been managing in the second division.
His reign at Bayern is pretty much forgettable, I think. I loved how he went there instead of England but what he did there was pretty much in line with how most managers get on there. It was the equivalent of taking on the Celtic job here.
At City he's amassed the most expensive club team in football history and carried on the work of those who'd won the league before him. There is a direct correlation in almost every league in history with the amount of money spent and the number of leagues won.
All very nice stuff, but he's taken over the richest, most financially backed teams in each of the leagues he's gone to after Barcelona. It's all a bit of a waste, really.
He might go onto win the Champions' League this year - it wouldn't be unexpected - but his grinding success at big teams isn't really awe-inspiring, is it?
As I say, not a hill I'm prepared to die on that others (madly enough on a Rangers forum) seem to want to.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
Only if he was matching the trophy count, but it took a lot of time and money for Klopp just to win those and ultimately he still doesn’t deliver trophies with anywhere near the same regularity. That’s the reason Guardiola has his pick of jobs and been the most sought after coach in the first place.
gizmico1986
Well-Known Member
So what you are telling me is that we are now comparing the results of the teams against Arsenal in the same week. One that was a dead rubber and one that was in the semi final of the national cup competition. Because that is exactly the same thing. Pep is slowly becoming yesterday’s man. Outwitted by his protege. But you carry on praising him regardless.
Queenstreetloyal
Well-Known Member
When was the last time in England that there was 3 genuine contenders going at it in the league for the title? pretty much if the season isn’t won like It was this year, then it’s a 2 horse race. That applies for pretty much every major league in Europe yet the Spanish appears to get the most hate for it.
The Spanish league is a better league than the English Prem in every sense of the word
CR5
Well-Known Member
Liverpool and Dortmund were both massive underdogs domestically. Anyone could have managed those Barcelona and Bayern teams to success and he has an open chequebook at City.
Pep is an all time great but Klopp is the better manager currently and arguably has more impressive achievements.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
What would you know about wits mate, you’re telling us all Liverpool weren’t interested in a record points total despite putting the pedal to the metal against Arsenal and coming undone as a result of their own defensive blunders and poor finishing. If it was dead rubber to them I’d have thought they’d have relaxed a bit more and their fans would have been a little less deflated too.
I’m guessing Klopp’s CL tie was viewed as dead rubber and merely getting in the way of the league campaign too hence why they let the third best side in Spain roger them on their own patch...
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
None of that is true though, and in stating so you vacate all credibility in this discussion. For starters Liverpool outbid them for Van Dijk, secondly that self managing Barca side finished 3rd the previous season.
ps, Guardiola’s record signing is Rodri at £60m. Klopp’s is VVD at £75m.
ClockworkOrange
Well-Known Member
It's happened once with Pep in England - last season. The season before his main rival was that Manchester United team from which Jose got the sack. Not his fault the rest of the league isn't up to scratch, of course, but I doubt Walter's greatest moment as Rangers boss was beating Tony Mowbray's Celtic.
gizmico1986
Well-Known Member
As stated before mate, more interested in winning the league this year, everything else is an irrelevance to them. And are you now denying that Pep was outwitted by Arteta? Without even trying in a number of different competitions Klopp has had a much superior season to yesterday’s man Pep. He will soon be out on his arse on the Champions League yet again as he has been since 2011 and the fruits of his labour will be the diddy cup despite assembling the most expensive squad in football history.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
Of course, they were more interested in the league, that’s convenient isn’t it; of course Guardiola is more interested in the CL this season, that’s why he’s not really bothered with the domestic trophies.
By the way, Guardiola won the league last season, I don’t think any sane person can describe someone as yesterday’s man when they’ve won the biggest prize going in their league only one campaign earlier. Ultimately I’d stick to wrestling mate, it might be embarrassing but it’s not half as embarrassing as your attempts at discussing the merits of these two football managers.
gizmico1986
Well-Known Member
Here is a question for you; who is the better manager Steven Gerrard or Neil Lennon? By your logic it has to be Lennon surely.
Queenstreetloyal
Well-Known Member
Your missing my point, you had a dig at Pep for winning the league in Spain due to it being a league where there is only one other contender. Sort of downplaying what he done due to this.
I am asking how many leagues in Europe has there been more than a genuine 2 horse race for the title and when was the last time it happened in England?
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
Is there really any question it’s Lennon at this point? Gerrard has it all to prove as a manager, I mean how would you even go about arguing that it’s Gerrard? Lennon isn’t the diddy many want to believe; he’s shown more flexibility for starters (in managerial terms of course, having seen recent photos of him I’d doubt if he could even bend over to pick up his Mars bar).
I thought you were fishing mate I must admit, but I’m starting to feel like you’re being genuine, in which, I’m betting I could get all your football knowledge jotted down on the back of a postage stamp.
ClockworkOrange
Well-Known Member
You've significantly weakened your own point.
You're saying that La Liga and the EPL are leagues in which there is only a two horse race for the title. In that case, his achievements in England were also achieved in a similarly uncompetitive environment. Which one is it?
gizmico1986
Well-Known Member
I didn’t say it wasn’t Lennon. Was just interested in your perspective. You seem to be taking this rather personally mate and getting quite personal. Maybe time to get a can of juice and a lie down. Before you do that can you please explain how Arteta didn’t outwit Pep last night? And please hurry, I’m going to sleep soon as I am staying up to watch some oiled up spot monkeys pretend fighting in the middle of the night.
CR5
Well-Known Member
Pep has spent £300m more than Klopp has.
Acting as if one player disproves this is absolute nonsense.
WinkieWATP
Well-Known Member
Just agree they are both fantastic managers and move on 
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
Who cares? It’s not the first time another manager has gotten the better of Guardiola and it won’t be the last. It’s just a bit daft to dwell on it to big up another manager with whom he got the better of mere days earlier. Nothing personal though, it’s not as though I’m having a tough shooting down each of your arguments here.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
Where did you pull that figure from, Red white and Kop?
You said he has a blank cheque book and anyone could win titles with that Barca side mate. As long as you’re using lies to try and fight your own corner what’s the point? A discussion has no merit left when people start to use fabrications and fiction to support their arguments.
CR5
Well-Known Member
I'm not a Liverpool fan, it's from transfermarkt.
I said he's had a blank cheque book at City and that has been true for the most part. Pep was allowed to do in one window what Klopp had to build over the course of years.
Liverpool outbidding City for VVD doesn't render that invalid. It was considered to be over the odds for him at the time and Liverpool had just sold Coutinho for silly money.
Inheriting Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets at Barcelona and winning the Bundesliga at Bayern isn't as impressive as toppling Bayern's dominance with Dortmund or delivering Liverpools first title in a generation
Both world class managers but one has had a much easier time than the other
gizmico1986
Well-Known Member
Keep your delusions up mate. You’re doing well. But you’re not shooting down anyone’s arguements. You’re dodging any questions asked and just quoting the same old tired stats. I’m sure good old Monsoor will open up the cheque book for the Mr Guardiola, it’s how he gets the best out of his squads.
CR5
Well-Known Member
Don't forget him calling easily verifiable truths lies
Queenstreetloyal
Well-Known Member
No I haven’t. You brought up the fact that the Spanish league is a 2 horse race as if it lowers the values of his achievements. What I’m telling you is every league in Europe is the same so in your eyes every league is weak?
When was the last time in England there was more than 2 teams going for the title at business end of season? I could probably ask that for every league in Europe. You could pick a odd year out of 20 but there’s not many
ClockworkOrange
Well-Known Member
You are, though. If every league season is a two horse race then winning it can't be much of an achievement, can it?
Queenstreetloyal
Well-Known Member
ClockworkOrange
Well-Known Member
A reply of the highest order! Bravo.
Queenstreetloyal
Well-Known Member
Discussions with idiots are left for during the week, not Sundays.
Blues and Royals
Well-Known Member
Yeah, Liverpool have to solely rely on income through replica jerseys sold in Toxteth and other working class districts.
ClockworkOrange
Well-Known Member
Burn!
I was actually being facetious but it still doesn't mean your logic doesn't check out.
For what it's worth, I reckon domestic competition in Europe is actually and quite obviously very weak and winning La Liga and the Bundeslegia is less of an achievement than winning the EPL, which had had far more winners in the past fifteen years than any other top league in Europe. And while it's the flip of a coin to decide if Madrid or Barca win La Liga, Munich are currently on eight in a row and City are literally the most expensive team in world football. Framed like that, when we already know that league championships are only won by a few teams, his domestic managerial success isn't all that exceptional.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
What questions have I dodged? I’ve answered them all including your Lennon/Gerrard question you clearly thought I’d dodge.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
No it’s not true in any way. A blank cheque book would mean he could spend as much as he wants on any player when he likes. That’s not the case, or the case “for the most part” therefore it’s a lie. You have any reasonable discourse if people are going to use fairy nonsense to support their own arguments. That’s what you do when you say “anyone could have managed that Barca side and win those titles”, “he had a blank cheque book”.
Mainstandbear
Well-Known Member
Klopps a better character
gizmico1986
Well-Known Member
Go back and look through not just mine but numerous other posters comments to you and there are a catalogue of questions that you have either ignored or failed to answer.
gizmico1986
Well-Known Member
Admit it, you’re either a crank or a delusional Pep fan boy. I really don’t give a monkeys about either of the two managers or their teams but seeing you getting yourself worked up and reeled in is absolutely hilarious. Chill out mate. It’s a Rangers forum. Maybe you should join a City forum since you seem to care so much about Cheque Guardiola.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
And yet you’re right in the thick of it and keep coming back. You’re a fantasist mate, maybe a wrestling forum would be better for you.
gizmico1986
Well-Known Member
I’m the fantasist? Coming from the individual peddling false stats and disregarding anything anyone else says? You’re a crank pal. You’re almost as a big a fantasist than your hero.
P.S I didn’t know having an interest in other forms of entertainment was a pre-requisite for having a footballing opinion. Which is rich coming from an individual who’s moniker is after a song from Top Gun.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
Yeah, fantasist. Go and find me questions I haven’t answered....... I’ll wait. Try and put any future retorts in English too if you can.
ps. although the song was used in Top Gun it’s actually an Archer reference. What a shame.
dt17
The Jay Cartwright of FF
Exactly.
The fact that Sheffield United were hovering around 6th for a lot of the seasons speaks volumes as well.
The likes of Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd and even Chelsea to an extent are all in transitioning periods.
gizmico1986
Well-Known Member
This has made my day. Start by learning how to use a full stop and then maybe take your head out of your arse. Admit that you also like watching oiled up men playing kid on sports ( I bet you love the volleyball scene and imagine Pep’s head on Cruise body). And then revel in the most expensive squad ever assembled with the supposed greatest ever manager who can do no wrong winning the League Cup only this season.
P.S. If you are going to use postscript remember that it is P.S. and not ps. Just another thing to add to the list of information you are wrong about.
Danger Zone
Just the tip...
That should be “Cruise’s body” by the way. Furthermore, there should be no space after you open parenthesis, however, once you get to grips with that you’ll be in pole position to correct my English.
As for the rest of it, well, it certainly reads like the ramblings of a man who pulls his plonker to Hulk Hogan. Thanks for providing no examples of questions I’ve dodged, thus proving you’re as full of shit as a public bog. You can count me out of your little trolling exercise now, I think it’s already sufficiently ruined the thread.
ibrox1975
Well-Known Member
Klopp improves players, Pep doesn’t improve players
Aye Raheem Sterling has stagnated at City
Drumchapel-Bear
Well-Known Member
If Pep retired at the end of this season Klopp would probably struggle to match his trophy haul by the time he retires.
Stevethebluenose90
Claims to be ITK - Is not ITK
You could say that pretty much every single season when one of the “top 6” doesn’t challenge for the title. Rarely do you see a 3-4 horse race for the title.
Another nonsense spin on things to try and diminish Liverpool’s success.
