Is Klopp a better manager than Pep?

Drumchapel-Bear said:
Soccer Saturday has totally ran it's course now. It used to be decent years ago but in terms of knowledge and actual analysis/punditry it's horrific now. It's like a bunch of old guys down the pub half cut talking about football.

It's not a serious platform for football analysis anymore.

It needs a major rejig to get proper football pundits on it now that actually study the game and can provide some insightful analysis.
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If it wasn’t for Sutton and occasionally Hartson I would probs watch BT
 
Danger Zone said:
It’s such a bizarre train of thought and even weirder than you still read that kind of thing today even though he’s scored more goals against England’s top 6 than most of the top strikers who’ve actually played in England.

If he can take the piss out of Vidic and Ferdinand in a CL final at Wembley, nutmegging them like weans on a playground, then I’m sure he’d be fine in that league. And for my money Ferdinand and Vidic were as good a defensive partnership as European football has seen in a long time.
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It’s crazy, Jamie Vardy at 33 is the current top scorer in the PL, followed by Aubameyang (who is 31).

If the two aforementioned strikers can top the charts at the twilight of their careers then I’m pretty sure Messi could walk in to the league and score about 30 with a top 4 team.
 
Both are a joy to watch in action, and to see how their approach changes over time.

I feel that Pep only plays with the best hand as it were... you’ll only find him at the richest club in the land, with excellent players already there and money to spend on whoever he fancies.
I’d like to see how he fared at an Everton, Sampdoria or Leverkusen.

Klopp still spends a fortune but builds in a different way and his Liverpool side have been wonderful to watch over the past 18 months.
The Klopp personality wins him time... and he needs it because his gradual improvement can take a couple of seasons before delivering trophies.

As with the Ronaldo & Messi comparisons, I intend to just enjoy watching it unfold.
 
Today he is.

In a years time he might not be.

The margins are so small that the two of them will hopefully go head to head for years to come and keep pushing the boundaries.
 
dublinbear said:
Today he is.

In a years time he might not be.

The margins are so small that the two of them will hopefully go head to head for years to come and keep pushing the boundaries.
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Correct, he has been this season. The season before he wasn't. Next year it may be Pep's turn again.
 
govan86 said:
Correct, he has been this season. The season before he wasn't. Next year it may be Pep's turn again.
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What if Pep wins the FA cup and Champions League?

In two seasons he can possibly win the domestic treble, follow it up with the domestic cup double and a CL win.
 
Klopp for me.How klopp built up teams and won honours with liverpool and dortmund is quite difficult in leagues usually dominated by other teams.as people have said its not like he doesnt spend money but as we see with other teams in prem man u chelsea spurs arsenal even city this season does not guarentee success.also he unifies clubs at all levels and his players would run through brick walls for him. Pep isnt exactky poor manager but he has never had to build like klopp has
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Soccer Saturday has totally ran it's course now. It used to be decent years ago but in terms of knowledge and actual analysis/punditry it's horrific now. It's like a bunch of old guys down the pub half cut talking about football.

It's not a serious platform for football analysis anymore.

It needs a major rejig to get proper football pundits on it now that actually study the game and can provide some insightful analysis.
Click to expand...
Yep, it's dull, I used to enjoy it, but it feels tired, same old faces. Same old opinions.
 
WinkieWATP said:
What if Pep wins the FA cup and Champions League?

In two seasons he can possibly win the domestic treble, follow it up with the domestic cup double and a CL win.
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What if indeed? To date that obviously hasn’t happened. If it does an argument could be made for Pep although I would still go with Klopp for this year as Liverpool have been way ahead of all others in England. Well at least until they clinched the title! If City do win both then Pep gets it over the 2 year period!
 
Chester Loyal said:
It's nonsense to suggest Pep has had unlimited resources. It's also nonsense to suggest Pep wouldn't be successful with Liverpool but Klopp would be with City.

Pep has been a serial winner everywhere he's been ffs.

28 trophies v 9 trophies sums it up for me.
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It’s not nonsense at all to suggest he has had practically unlimited resources, as he has. Again, there is also no evidence to suggest Pep could turn around a struggling club, as Klopp has with every team he has managed. So it’s not a nonsense point.
 
gizmico1986 said:
It’s not nonsense at all to suggest he has had practically unlimited resources, as he has. Again, there is also no evidence to suggest Pep could turn around a struggling club, as Klopp has with every team he has managed. So it’s not a nonsense point.
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What part of Barca finishing 3rd is not struggling?
 
Queenstreetloyal said:
What part of Barca finishing 3rd is not struggling?
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Rijkaard won two titles with essentially the same squad Pep inherited only a couple years before him, a squad of Messi, Eto'o, Puyol, Deco, Abidal, Thuram, Henry, Edmilson, Ronaldinho, Xavi, Iniesta, Marquez just to name a few, I'd barely label that as struggling in comparison to the Klopps situations.
 
Opta said:
They finished 6th and 8th the two seasons after nearly winning it.
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6th yes. Klopp took over in October of the 8th placed finish season. Again I feel like folk are being a bit economical with the truth here, to the benefit of Klopp and detriment of Guardiola.

The point is little more than a year prior to Klopp’s arrival they were 2 games away from winning the title so this wasn’t some giant mass of rubble Klopp inherited at all, he hadn’t just walked into a club that were consistently finishing in 10th place prior to his arrival. All that had really happened since then was Suárez left and the tranny shagger completely lost control.
 
Danger Zone said:
6th yes. Klopp took over in October of the 8th placed finish season. Again I feel like folk are being a bit economical with the truth here, to the benefit of Klopp and detriment of Guardiola.

The point is little more than a year prior to Klopp’s arrival they were 2 games away from winning the title so this wasn’t some giant mass of rubble Klopp inherited at all, he hadn’t just walked into a club that were consistently finishing in 10th place prior to his arrival. All that had really happened since then was Suárez left and the tranny shagger completely lost control.
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Looking at the squad he inherited, how many of them
Would you say were capable of winning a league and a champions league?
 
Opta said:
Looking at the squad he inherited, how many of them
Would you say were capable of winning a league and a champions league?
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Doesn’t matter does it, the bulk of that squad were very nearly champions not long before his arrival. To add to that, it’s not as though Klopp took that squad and made them champions or European champions, it took 4 more years and a giant wad of money for him to make that happen.

Meanwhile posters elsewhere are peddling myths and fairy nonsense about Guardiola having joined the biggest club in the league (yeah right) with the best side in the league who were already on top (4th placed finish) and having unlimited resources (outbid for both Van Dijk and Alexis, one of whom proved pivotal to the side he joined) to sign the world’s best players (absolutely nobody on here had Jesus, Sane, Ederson, Walker, Mahrez, Bernard Silva or Gündogan down as being some of the world’s best prior to his arrival).

Like I said mate, it’s a very one sided debate where people are trying hard to really downplay one managers impact and achievements whilst perhaps overstating the others. There’s just far too much fantasy in this thread for it to be a solid debate.
 
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Opta said:
I agree, I’m not saying Klopps the better manager. Guardiola’s Barca team is the best to ever play, that team totally changed football.
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He's totally changed how football is played in this country.

Go and watch Under 10s playing football in any of your local football parks. You will see the centre halves dropping into the box to take the ball off the goalkeeper when it's in his hands or from goal kicks. That's all down to Pep Guardiola re-inventing how football should be played and changing peoples attitudes on how it should be played.
 
I think another argument for Pep is that he turns good players into superstars.

The job he's done with Sterling and Bernardo Silva is remarkable.
 
Danger Zone said:
You’d almost think Klopp had taken over Watford and made them champions as opposed to Liverpool who were a ball hair away being crowned champions almost immediately before his arrival.
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A ball hair away from what title ? He took over a brendan rogers led team that jst got spanked 6-0 against the mighty Stoke
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Liverpool were a Gerrard slip away from winning it 18 months before Klopp came in as well.

Bit of a myth he inherited a sh*te team.
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You forget to add that Gerrard was retiring and also the best player in the league that year was leaving for barcelona...So he took over that side minus Gerrard and Suarez
 
96thekop said:
A ball hair away from what title ? He took over a brendan rogers led team that jst got spanked 6-0 against the mighty Stoke
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Go back around a year prior and they were nearly champions. He didn’t walk in and inherit some massive pile of rubble not did he achieve instant, or even quick success, it took a load of time and money.

Here’s a good forum for you mate

Red and White Kop Liverpool FC Forum - Index

Red and White Kop Liverpool FC Forum - Index
www.redandwhitekop.com
 
96thekop said:
You forget to add that Gerrard was retiring and also the best player in the league that year was leaving for barcelona...So he took over that side minus Gerrard and Suarez
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He inherited an underperforming squad. Rodgers had lost it by the end, but they still had a decent squad there. And it then took Klopp 5 years to build the title winning side.

He has built an incredible team, no doubt about that but most managers don't get 1 or 2 seasons nowadays never mind 5 to build a successful team.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
He inherited an underperforming squad. Rodgers had lost it by the end, but they still had a decent squad there. And it then took Klopp 5 years to build the title winning side.

He has built an incredible team, no doubt about that but most managers don't get 1 or 2 seasons nowadays never mind 5 to build a successful team.
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I would actually argue Liverpool were better to watch last year than they were this year. The rest of the teams in the Prem have been very poor this year and that has helped Liverpool massively. Title has been over from around November.

Leicester still being in contention for Champions League spot just about sums up the rest of the teams in that league this season
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
He inherited an underperforming squad. Rodgers had lost it by the end, but they still had a decent squad there. And it then took Klopp 5 years to build the title winning side.

He has built an incredible team, no doubt about that but most managers don't get 1 or 2 seasons nowadays never mind 5 to build a successful team.
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You dont sack a manager like klopp after 1 or 2 seasons though
 
Queenstreetloyal said:
I would actually argue Liverpool were better to watch last year than they were this year. The rest of the teams in the Prem have been very poor this year and that has helped Liverpool massively. Title has been over from around November.

Leicester still being in contention for Champions League spot just about sums up the rest of the teams in that league this season
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I watch every game liverpool play and last year we we're playing amazing,free flowing heavy metal football as klopp likes to call it,but this year its been dogged,score a goal,get the lead and rock solid defence,get another 1 or 2 goals on the break and put the game to bed
 
Arsenal game yesterday showing City struggle just as we do domestically. Pep had no answer for it!

Lots of square passes around the box with no invention or quality. Resorted to floating pish crosses to the back post when they have have a bunch of 5ft tippy tappers in and around it.

Edit - for me they are not the same team, or even close, without an on form KDB. He was poor last night and so were City.
 
R.Madrid apparantly need to bring in £160m in the transfer window. City should offer Van Dyke money for Varane. If they don’t shore up that defence Liverpool will win the league again next year.

If Pep has an Achilles heel it’s defensively.
 
gizmico1986 said:
I guarantee a Klopp led Man City would have skooshed that game last night.
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You can’t guarantee it, especially when traditionally Guardiola wins a lot more domestic cups than Klopp. He’s also still in the CL, where Klopp’s been papped out on his arse by the third best side in Spain who can’t spend £80m on a centre half.
 
Rick_Sanchez said:
Arsenal game yesterday showing City struggle just as we do domestically. Pep had no answer for it!

Lots of square passes around the box with no invention or quality. Resorted to floating pish crosses to the back post when they have have a bunch of 5ft tippy tappers in and around it.

Edit - for me they are not the same team, or even close, without an on form KDB. He was poor last night and so were City.
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I wish we had struggled domestically the way City have in recent years
 
Danger Zone said:
You can’t guarantee it, especially when traditionally Guardiola wins a lot more domestic cups than Klopp. He’s also still in the CL, where Klopp’s been papped out on his arse by the third best side in Spain who can’t spend £80m on a centre half.
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Won it last year though didn’t he, so had to concentrate on the league this year. Would 100 percent have demolished that mediocre Arsenal side.
 
ask the fans who they'd want managing us between the 2, I bet klopp would come out top, plus klopp and his countrymen put an end-ish to tiki-taka, which is a big plus in my eyes, and you get better vaule for the money with klopp, and I think the peak pep barca side will get beat by this current liverpool side
 
Danger Zone said:
They just lost their big chance at matching Guardiola’s record points total by losing to that Arsenal side a few days ago, so I don’t think you’re all there mate.
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Liverpool had the league wrapped up with lots of games to go. City had Liverpool breathing down their necks until the final day.

Bit of an unfair comparison given the situations are very different.
 
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