Is our defence good enough to win this league.

Needs to cut out the stupid, basic errors and mistakes.

May be similar to the bheggars defence but how often do they concede they way we do. Tavernier, Goldson and Katić defending at times is criminal.

Our players are weak minded and if we are not finishing off teams, you just feel like the defence is going to concede.

I'd replace Tavernier over Goldson. Either way, I hope one of them are replaced this summer. Preferably Tavernier with the armband going elsewhere.
 
CaptainCourageous said:
Needs to cut out the stupid, basic errors and mistakes.

May be similar to the bheggars defence but how often do they concede they way we do. Tavernier, Goldson and Katić defending at times is criminal.

Our players are weak minded and if we are not finishing off teams, you just feel like the defence is going to concede.

I'd replace Tavernier over Goldson. Either way, I hope one of them are replaced this summer. Preferably Tavernier with the armband going elsewhere.
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Clearly they concede as often as we do, given the goal difference.

The differnence is they go up the park and score more often than us.
 
It’s a given there’ll be much disagreement on a thread like this. Just my opinion on our current crop though more a summing up than anything. On their day, all playing well they can all do it. But how often?
Tav is excellent at driving up the wing and bringing play up the pitch. If he only could cut inside and then link more with our front players rather than hitting hopeful crosses of variable quality into an unloaded box. He lacks a bit of steel defensively, is prone to lapses and indecisive on occasion at the back.
Goldson is a good footballer, is very vocal on the pitch and seems to be a favourite of the manager. If only he’d release it forward more quickly and more often and and not waste time trying to pick out long balls too often. He also passes up many good opportunities to drive forward into space. Like Tav, he can be bullied and is prone to mistakes. He is also too happy to pass it slowly back and forth across the backline slowing up the counter. I think he was a far better player for us a year ago but has gone backwards for some reason. Against that he has still managed to play some very big games even since. Just not enough. It depends which Goldson comes back next season.
Helander looks reliable and positionally very good and is likely our best centre back but he lacks so much pace and this means you have to play Edmundson with him to compensate.
Edmundson’s weakness is in the air and maybe positionally. He needs experience next to him. I like his no nonsense high tempo approach to moving the ball forward with quick passes.
Katic is our best goal threat in the air. He is too strong to be bullied but is not so good with the ball at his feet and can dive in a bit rashly leaving things a bit open.
Barisic has shown he could be a great left back and has a much more dangerous delivery than Tav. He has a wand of a left foot for free kicks. He obviously had a bit of a form slump but if he could add a bit of steel and ruthlessness to his game (probably only needed in Scotland) we’ll have a great player on our hands.
Patterson I have only seen a few times but I like what I see. He looks fast, fit, strong and confident and would love to see him break through this season. Huge potential but haven’t seen enough at first team level to see if there’s any weaknesses. I’m hopeful though and I’m sure he’ll have further developed physically over the last year.
So all in all we have players at the back with different strengths and weaknesses. It’s deciding if one part of their game outweighs the other or if we can accept or live with the Jekyll and Hyde aspects of their play.
Financial constraints may disallow improvement where ideally we would like.
I just don’t want to see the type of capitulation we showed in the two games at Tynecastle. If we do bring in a new defender, let him be a warrior. With the current set of defenders we have, over the course of a whole season, I’d guess we’re not quite good enough. Yet they have shown in individual games and even for a significant run that they can indeed do it. Just not consistently enough for what it takes to win a league.
Of course there are other aspects to consider tactically and in other areas of the pitch but that’s for another thread.
 
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If no one goes out then I think we only need another left back then the focus should be strengthening midfield and attack.
 
Honestly ? No.

That's not to say we don't have good defenders and both them and the manager deserve enormous credit for the defensive record compared to the horror show in 2017/18 under Pedro and Murty but there is something missing for me.

We're losing goals to basic individual errors and we're still losing goals to long punts up the middle of the park. This still shouldn't be happening after 2 years. We've improved but it's still not enough.

A dominant cente half puts us over the top. Someone who'll come in and properly organise that back four and lead them as a captain.

Personally, I'd cash in on Goldson. He's 28 this year and I think someone down south will pay good money for him.
 
SDF said:
A dominant cente half puts us over the top. Someone who'll come in and properly organise that back four and lead them as a captain.

Personally, I'd cash in on Goldson. He's 28 this year and I think someone down south will pay good money for him
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The problem is that every club in the world is looking for that player and many can pay tens of millions for an average CB.

Every single one will make mistakes and sadly we’re not going to get Nesta in his prime.

The reason clubs down south would pay for Goldson is because he’s a good defender and certainly good enough to win the SPL!

We need to add goals to the team. Do that and we’ll be Champions this season!
 
I believe the defence are good enough to win the league if we can get a settled back four.

I think we need a hard bastard in the midfield. Not someone who is necessarily technically gifted but someone you can rely on to grab games by the scruff of the neck when you’re struggling to get the three points.

Also, if Alfie stays for another season, he needs to be reliable for the full season. I’d imagine we’ll bring somebody else in up front, most likely as backup e.g. Kamberi or the like.
 
Stevie13000 said:
Just because our defence have the same goals against that mob that does not mean we can have a better defence.

As stated the yahoos don’t lose as many match defining goals as we do .
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Like I said earlier, they wouldn’t be match defining if the forwards were scoring their xGs
 
Would like an upgrade on Goldson, he has played his part but isn't good enough for where we want to get to.

As much as I like Tav and he is a good attacking option, he simply costs us far too many goals. Loses concentration at the back and just doesn't have the defensive game we need.

That being said, I'd like us to strengthen the middle of the park before any defensive change.
 
SDF said:
Honestly ? No.

That's not to say we don't have good defenders and both them and the manager deserve enormous credit for the defensive record compared to the horror show in 2017/18 under Pedro and Murty but there is something missing for me.

We're losing goals to basic individual errors and we're still losing goals to long punts up the middle of the park. This still shouldn't be happening after 2 years. We've improved but it's still not enough.

A dominant cente half puts us over the top. Someone who'll come in and properly organise that back four and lead them as a captain.

Personally, I'd cash in on Goldson. He's 28 this year and I think someone down south will pay good money for him.
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Selection bias. The number of individual errors and goals from long balls is part of goals conceded jointly lowest in the league.

Plus the number conceded was roughly the same as our last three title wins.

Goals is the problem.
 
Goalkeeper and left side of the defence are better that theirs in my opinion but the right side two needs looked at and upgraded
 
Its frustrating that we can go to Parkhead, Ufa, Porto, Braga, Warsaw etc and defend brilliantly but then look at the goals lost at St.Johnstone, Killie, Tynecastle or at home to Hamilton which were absolutely fucking criminal and cost us vital points.

They're all good players and the stats overall are fine, but we're too prone to an individual error - usually when we can least afford it.
 
Collectively we are not strong enough physically or mentally as a team to survive a full season. That's evidence on the basis of previous 2 years.

Aa for out defence. If SG would stop allowing CG away with shambolic performances and errors without being dropped it would help. That goes for all other areas.

I think we are actually okay in defence IF the players stick to defending. However our passing out from the back must get better and smarter. How often we take that needless risk to play out under this new rule.

Less football at the back more getting to the midfield and drive would help imo.

I trust McGregor however as we know when he gets bored he wants to lose it or make those passes which does out us under pressure. It may be though that it's just painful to watch ha ha, the analytic side that we hear of may support it.
 
UpperCanadianLoyal said:
Selection bias. The number of individual errors and goals from long balls is part of goals conceded jointly lowest in the league.

Plus the number conceded was roughly the same as our last three title wins.

Goals is the problem.
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In 2020 alone (in the space of 10 domestic games)

Kamara at Tynecastle in the league
Long ball over the top v Hamilton in the cup
Long ball down the middle v Killie
Katic at St Johnstone
Tav at Tynecastle in the cup
Goldson v Hamilton at home

Lowest in the league or not, It's happening far too regularly.
 
Quite clearly yes when you look at the statistics. We conceded the same as them last season. Our issue is scoring goals, our midfield don’t contribute enough when you compare to them. The reason why some of these basic errors made in defence stand out but these things happen in a season. It’s just that they seem to score more goals that make these mistakes nothing more than a consolation goal
 
i'd place more emphasis on the midfield
second half of the season* we were seeing a defence massively exposed as the almsot entire midfield had a collective slump in form

we were seeing them not support the attack and leaving the defence open

Tav
Goldson
Helander/Katic
Barisic

is good enough



backup at FB tho?
 
LoganBear said:
Strange question maybe as our defence statistically was as good as mentally challengeds last season.

Mcgregor i would say has another season at the top in him, a good back experienced back up to challenge him is required with wes moving on so hladky from st mirren would make sense.

Arguably i would say we have the best 2 fullbacks in the country in tav and borna, patterson for me can be backup for tav and we need cover for left back.

Central defence is where i think we need to strengthen, i cant quite put my finger on it but i just dont see us winning the league with our centrebacks.
Its not that i think they are poor as i like helander, goldson, katic and edmundsen as players, they all have very good parts to their game.

Personally helander would be my first choice although i know the gaffer obviously rates goldson highly, we then have the two younger guys in katic and big george.

i would love to see us go back and try to get big jake cooper from millwall, played every game for them this/last season and is made for our league, out of contract i think so will be a few clubs down south looking at signing him. Cracking big player.

I wouldnt be too unhappy to see katic or goldson sold for decent money if we could get cooper in or even katic or edmundsen out on loan and keep goldson if funds allow.

Thoughts?

Ps our midfield and attacking options are for another thread.
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Good comments , need another striker as Defoe can't play on his own upfront and a hard man in midfield as when it came to a fight after new year we were found wanting
 
I think the defence is good enough. To improve I would consider replacing Tav. I can’t watch when the opposition sling a cross to the back post and Tav gets caught underneath it.

In my opinion it is the midfield needs to improve. I feel the midfield need to shoulder the blame for the goals we concede. The likes of Jack and Kamara can be got at and continually get caught out, especially in games where we are struggling to score and expected to win.
 
The amount of individual mistakes from Tavernier and Goldson kill us at times, especially since neither of them can be dropped.
 
Our defence isn’t the biggest issue in my opinion. We lack goals from midfield and those who play either side of Alfredo. If you look across the city Forrest, Christie & McGregor seems to contribute far more than any of our midfielders. The chart below shows us exactly the difference

www.uefa.com

Member associations - Scotland - League – UEFA.com

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Yes it is but it could also be improved on. But this season there needs to be priorities. First we need buy someone to establish the RW. Then look at where we lacked, which was goals from the CMs then there's someone to challenge for LB and ST. After those are sorted the you look at defence.
 
we need to sign someone to challenge tav, look at young boys away that's the kind of thing he'll do again and in a big match.

Great squad player but we have a lot of those.
 
Goldson + 1 which changes too much doesn't help settle, we don't have enough of a winners mentality around the squad
 
Yes if we have our strongest back 4 playing and upgrade our midfield.

A lot of our defensive problems are due to our lack of creativity in the midfield. When we struggle to break teams down the defence take risks trying to start attacks. Borna and Tav are the are key men in our foward play rather than assisting the midfield as an extra option. If we had more midfielders capable of 10+ goals and 10+ assists then the need for our defence to take the risks reduces. A proper CDM in tough away games would help. I'm a fan of our defence but we need more from the midfield to help them out.

We also struggled in games where we had to make changes at full back. Halliday and Flanagan were piss poor in most appearances. A better midfield would mean a backup defender could come in and basically just do the bare minimum to get by with a clean sheet and a 6.5/10. Because of our dependency on fullbacks to provide assists the backups were coming into the team and having to try and be Tav or Barisic going foward aswell.
 
We need a strong captain who can push us on even when they are not playing well not sure we have a player in our squad just now with the mentality to put that in place.
 
Stevie13000 said:
That’s true but if our forwards are not scoring then the mistakes in defence do become match defining.
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My point is the defence isn’t really our problem and we should be able to win leagues and cups with the back 5 we have right now
 
Don't think it's good enough for a league win. Nor is the striking department. Hopefully, some changes soon.
 
I think our defence needs improved in terms of leadership, however we should not have to rely on the defence to win the league.

The amount of possession we have in games its middle to front that needs to improve for us to win the league ... especially chance conversion !!
 
McGregor, Tavernier, Goldson, Helander and Barisic are all the best in their position in the league (in my opinion) so are obviously good enough to win the league.

if we don’t it is because of one or more of the following:
  • Their back-ups aren’t good enough to cover injuries and suspensions
  • The rest of team isn’t as good
  • The tactics/formation don’t work well
  • Attitude/mentality is wrong
  • corrupt officials
 
Goldson is not consistent enough to win the Championship. Anyone who thinks he’s good needs to watch his individual errors in the Celtic, Aberdeen & Hamilton games again.

He’s my biggest worry as he seems to be Gerrard’s favourite player. I hope some Championship Club bids for him...I’d take the 3 million & run.
 
Statistics don't lie but they very rarely tell the whole story either
I can't put my finger on it but there's something about our defence that stops me having enough confidence in it

I can't help thinking they don't cover enough for each other - whatever the combination on the park

There's nothing wrong with our full backs pushing forward- but the gaps they leave aren't sufficiently dealt with imo

I'm still unsure how Helander will turn out - it's been stop start for him so far & would be unfair to judge him before he's had a decent & consistent run in the side

For the remainder of the cb's I still think there's room for improvement

They all need to play as a solid unit with a bit more understanding than they seem to have at the moment imo
 
Is the defence good enough ? No not for me.

We need a more solid right back instead of the unpredictable Tavernier.

Also I've never been convinced by Goldson I fully believe we need a more solid and pacey defender especially alongside Helander.
 
The numbers would suggest yes, provided we regularly kill teams off at the other end

Statistics can be misleading though, and some of the individual errors already discussed here demonstrate an inability at times to play the situation in a game.

Too often guys like Goldson, Tav, Kamara have tried to be too cute in beating men or playing blind passes in or around our own box when we are in tight/tough games. Its ok doing that at 3-0 ahead, but not at 1-1 or 2-1 ahead. Its all about mentality and game intelligence and I fear we often lack these skills
 
temperance said:
I think our back 4 are good enough, but the defensive side of midfield is lacking.
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Considering how deep lying our midfield can be most of the time and how reluctant our midfield are to commit forward runs into the box, I don’t think it’s the lack of midfield assistance to blame for our defensive frailties. That’s not to say we don’t need strengthening in midfield too.
 
We have the defence to win the league, we need to be better going forward. No one was concerned about our defence under Smith and that when we won 4-2 because the attack done the business. We don't score enough goals so every goal conceded gets overanalysed.
 
Tav gets stuck inside his own head. I think taking the armband off him to lift that weight will be best for him.
 
While I’m still not completely convinced by Tav, a back four of him, Barisic, Goldson and Helander probably is good enough - we certainly looked as solid at the back as we have done at any time since Walter when that was our starting quartet.
 
It would be good if we had a manager who had the willingness/capability (or both) to operate more than one system where we could see an extra man at centre back, central midfield or an extra striker, depending on the opponent.

The one 4-3-3 to fit all opponents harms us as much, if not more, than the mistakes of any one individual.
 
temperance said:
I think our back 4 are good enough, but the defensive side of midfield is lacking.
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A big powerful dominant holding midfielder would be ideal means our other midfielders can drive forward.

Never understood why we play three similar type midfielders especially in games against dross teams.
 
LoganBear said:
I disagree mate, i dont think we have proven we are good enough and think we need to improve all three areas of the team including defence.
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I think we need better strength in depth which I don't think we have, I think we struggle if one of the mainstays go out the team and I don't think we have the strength in depth to change it. We have one decent striker,Defoe,good as he is,is getting on and we can't play two up front,mind you if push came to shove,Hagi could play up top,but for me he should be in the middle. We also need to weed out the loser mentality,that for me is the biggest thing.
 
Conceded the same amount as them. We definitely have had some shocking defensive error but I think the biggest issue is if it’s 0-0 and one of these happens we don’t have the belief to overturn it.
 
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