Is this the original Billy boys words ?

I might be reading it too literally (or it might be the ambiguity that I’ve been badgering on about) but does the 2006 judgement not refer to the combination of the words and the melody which culminate in the sectarian and discriminatory behaviour... hence why the tune is permitted when used by other clubs?

“The opening words “Hello, hello, we are the Billy Boys”, as well as the melody, are sufficient to make an association with an attitude that is strongly sectarian and thus discriminatory.”
I know you’ve been banging on about ambiguity, but honestly there isn’t any. This was clarified by the club at the time. The song cannot be sung “in any form”. It genuinely can’t be clearer.
 
The club waived its right of appeal.
Mark, my understanding at the time was that the club exhausted its appeals within UEFA and chose not to go to CAS, rather than simply waiving it’s right to appeal. I confess that I remember gathering that impression from the joint statement.
 
Why should we not sing TBB ? I fully understand the word 19th Century Terrorist not being sung
at which point would you be happy, see guys like you dont get it, we have people that want todo damage and people like you want to help them.

fines closures closed doors or just kicked out at which point will you and others on here wake up to whats happening or will it be when we are three points off fifty five and the same haters want to deduct points.

No changing words will stop it as there will always be one drunk that doesnt care about the ammo they give to those in the BBC. Scottish media or the bigots in fare.

Uefa can do what they want. its their ball.
 
We cannot sing it in any form. Any attempt to change the words will inevitably end up in people using the original words and getting us in trouble.

It’s finished. Let it go.

Do you think Man Utd will be punished for their version too?

If not why not?

People are now acting like anything to the tune of Marching Through Georgia is an offensive.
 
Get the song and tune to %^*& it’s from the dark ages and it has cost us dear if it is persisted with it will see us expelled from European competitions
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marching_Through_Georgia

The song and original lyrics predate Rangers by seven years and originates from the American civil war. It doesn't matter what sanitised 'lyrics' would be sung at Ibrox, it has just got to be a no-no as, over time some mindless fans, through drink or whatever, will revert to form and we will be back to square one.

We really need to get to grips with this or our own fans may achieve what the rest of Scottish football failed to do after 2012.

Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot.
 
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Years ago my Dad told me these were the original words to the Billy boys anyone else heard these lyrics ?

Hello hello you`ll hear us proudly cry
hello hello as we go marching by
we`ll sing the sash and Derry`s walls
and of the heroes of the Boyne
as we go marching to Ibrox

No F words so wonder if this version would be politically correct !
The song TBB originates from the razor gangs in Glasgow in the 30's the name Billy is nothing to do with King William of Orange, it refers to the notorious Billy Fullerton who was the leader of the Brigton' Billy Boys and my father and his twin brother were members of the gang..Their main rivals were the mainly Catholic gang The San Toi from Calton.Part of the lyrics of the song '' We chased the San Toi up the Gallowgate cause we are the Brigton' Billy Boys''..I have not heard those lyrics sung at Ibrox for years
 
Do you think Man Utd will be punished for their version too?

If not why not?

People are now acting like anything to the tune of Marching Through Georgia is an offensive.
Because Manchester United haven’t had a UEFA judgement handed down to them that specifically precribes them from singing “any form” of the song, melody included.

It’s really that simple. If one day they do receive such a judgement then they will also have to abide by it if they want to play in UEFA competitions. Same for any other club.
 
Because Manchester United haven’t had a UEFA judgement handed down to them that specifically precribes them from singing “any form” of the song, melody included.

It’s really that simple. If one day they do receive such a judgement then they will also have to abide by it if they want to play in UEFA competitions. Same for any other club.

LJ just to say well done on this thread so far.

You've been spectacularly patient and bang on with the facts against some posters who really are not grasping the potential severity of the current situation.

If this is how difficult self policing is on a forum imagine the complete cluster f*k Ibrox is going to be. People to need to wisen up very quickly
 
LJ just to say well done on this thread so far.

You've been spectacularly patient and bang on with the facts against some posters who really are not grasping the potential severity of the current situation.

If this is how difficult self policing is on a forum imagine the complete cluster f*k Ibrox is going to be. People to need to wisen up very quickly
You’re very kind, but I’ll just repeat what I said earlier in the thread when someone said I was patient. I’m not, I’m desperate.

I really don’t.

But it is really, really fucking important that people understand this. We don’t have to like it. But we have to accept it or it’ll be empty Ibrox, followed by no Europe, followed by more years in the wilderness as a result of the financial and reputational damage it will do to us. Anyone who thinks we attract Gerrard as our manger and retain players like Morelos when we have no money and no European football to offer them is utterly delusional.


After everything we’ve been through, I can’t face that.
 
This is the one I knew when I was growing up listening to rangers records

We are the people who sing of victory
We follow Glasgow Rangers from Kilmarnock to Dundee
We follow Glasgow Rangers our hearts are strong and true
For we are the people who cheer the boys in blue.
A goal! A goal!
We're ready to acclaim
A goal! A goal!
To win another game
We follow Glasgow Rangers our hearts are strong and true.
For we are the people who cheer the boys in blue.

I only learned the "alternative" version as I got older.
My kids who have never been to any football match have sung this song since they could speak.I sang it to them and they sang the words I miss.Would love to hear this at Ibrox again.
 
We cannot sing it in any form. Any attempt to change the words will inevitably end up in people using the original words and getting us in trouble.

It’s finished. Let it go.

It can be sung if the words are changed, dont tell me that every other club in the world would be able to sing it with different words and we couldn't, it's just complete nonsense. Man utd sing it, Kilmarnock sing it, why are they not being hauled over the coals???

I am going to make it my mission to get a new version of it and get it endorsed by the club.
 
It can be sung if the words are changed, dont tell me that every other club in the world would be able to sing it with different words and we couldn't, it's just complete nonsense. Man utd sing it, Kilmarnock sing it, why are they not being hauled over the coals???

I am going to make it my mission to get a new version of it and get it endorsed by the club.
Please read the thread. Please read the judgement. It will tell you exactly why Man Utd can sing the tune but we can’t, in Europe at least.

I would hold off on your mission until our other bold poster has been successful in his challenge to UEFA. Because unless and until UEFA overturn their own judgment, you’ll get the club to endorse no version. Put your energies into something else in the meantime.
 
If you can read my post then you are also capable of reading the directive. Just because you don’t want it to be true, it doesn’t mean it’s not. Just because it isn’t fair, it doesn’t mean they can’t.
I, myself, would love to read "the directive". Can you point me to your source. The only thing that I can find is
Match: UEFA Europa League first qualifying round second-leg match between Rangers FC and St Joseph's FC (6:0), 18 July in Scotland

Charges against Rangers FC:
- Racist behaviour (sectarian chants) - Art. 14 of the UEFA Disciplinary Regulations (DR)

Decision:
The Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body has decided to order a partial closure of the stadium during the next one (1) UEFA competition match in which Rangers FC play as the host club, for the racist behaviour of its supporters. Rangers FC shall, as a matter of urgency, inform UEFA of the sector(s) to be closed, which shall at least comprehend 3,000 seats. The Scottish club is ordered to display a banner with the wording “#EqualGame”, with the UEFA logo on it. The banner shall be displayed in the sector(s) to be closed.
 
I, myself, would love to read "the directive". Can you point me to your source. The only thing that I can find is
I posted it earlier in the thread.
It’s 15 pages. Our acknowledgment they we have to abide by whatever judgements they hand down is at the top of page 10. The reference to the melody is at the top of page 12, the explicit prescribing of the song “in any form” is on page 14.

http://www.linfieldfc.com/pdfs/8393_rangers_vs_uefa.pdf
 
If it's the actual tune that's the problem with the politically correct arses not the words every other wee club has there own pish version even the 7th cavalry
 
LJ just to say well done on this thread so far.

You've been spectacularly patient and bang on with the facts against some posters who really are not grasping the potential severity of the current situation.

If this is how difficult self policing is on a forum imagine the complete cluster f*k Ibrox is going to be. People to need to wisen up very quickly

I'm getting the severity of the situation.

That doesn't mean we have to like it. Of course we'll abide by it, but to do so without at least asking any questions is baffling.

It's not really enough to say "Its alright for Kilmarnock and Man Utd but not for Rangers". That's not really a satisfactory response.
 
At times I’m stunned by our supports lack of knowledge around this song. It’s the song of a 1930s Glasgow razor gang. “Billy” refers to William Fullerton, the gang’s leader. The gang was The Brigton/Bridgeton Billy Boys. The original words to the song are pretty much as sung by our support.

We need to drop it. The potential for punishments and nuances around the meaning of the the F word aside, it saddens me that some want our clubs “anthem” to be be that of a gang of thugs from the east end of Glasgow from 90 years ago.
 
Please read the thread. Please read the judgement. It will tell you exactly why Man Utd can sing the tune but we can’t, in Europe at least.

I would hold off on your mission until our other bold poster has been successful in his challenge to UEFA. Because unless and until UEFA overturn their own judgment, you’ll get the club to endorse no version. Put your energies into something else in the meantime.

And that isn't going to happen any time soon and especially with Liewell now in a position of perhaps considerable influence at UEFA. https://www.footballscotland.co.uk/...celtic-chief-executive-peter-lawwell-16771502

B.T.W., I support everything you have contributed to this thread.
 
The annoying thing is Ayr fans sing up to their knees in Killie blood and Dundee sing Arab blood. I await their punishment from the SPFL/SFA.
 
Well done LJ50 throughout this thread.
People need to understand that TBB can never be heard again on European nights (We all know it’ll have to go in domestic competition soon).
The 2006 judgement is clear and the bit many don’t seem to get is that because TBB was such a song & tune for us any sound of the tune, regardless of words, is deemed to have a direct link to the original song and therefore is deemed to have sectarian connotations.
Just the same as if we changed the tune but still sang “hullo, hullo”.
All this stuff about Man United / Killie singing it is comparing chalk with cheese, in that as far as I’m aware, those teams version of the tune / song have never contained sectarian language. Therefore, there is no connotation with our version.
 
According to the evidence at hand, it is obvious that the „Billy Boys‟ song, whatever the lyrics, is far from being just a well-intentioned supporters' song. On the contrary, people from Scotland, when hearing the song, would automatically connect the chant with a general anti-Catholic attitude and the Billy Boys gang of the 1920s... The opening words “Hello, hello, we are the Billy Boys”, as well as the melody, are sufficient to make an association with an attitude that is strongly sectarian and thus discriminatory. "

If it's the actual tune that's the problem with the politically correct arses not the words every other wee club has there own pish version even the 7th cavalry

UEFA have decided that in our case the melody itself is inextricably linked with a sectarian (discriminatory) attitude.
Man Utd's version, for example, has no such baggage.


Hello, hello we are the Busby Boys, Hello, hello we are the Busby Boys, And if you are a City fan, Surrender or you'll die, We all follow United!
 
Original words for the tune:

Bring the good old bugle, boys, we'll sing another song;
Sing it with a spirit that will start the world along,
Sing it as we used to sing it, fifty thousand strong,
While we were marching through Georgia.
Hurrah! Hurrah! We bring the jubilee!
Hurrah! Hurrah! The flag that makes you free!
So we sang the chorus from Atlanta to the sea,
While we were marching through Georgia.
Hurrah! Hurrah! We bring the jubilee!
Hurrah! Hurrah! The flag that makes you free!
So we sang the chorus from Atlanta to the sea,
While we were marching through Georgia.
 
According to the evidence at hand, it is obvious that the „Billy Boys‟ song, whatever the lyrics, is far from being just a well-intentioned supporters' song. On the contrary, people from Scotland, when hearing the song, would automatically connect the chant with a general anti-Catholic attitude and the Billy Boys gang of the 1920s... The opening words “Hello, hello, we are the Billy Boys”, as well as the melody, are sufficient to make an association with an attitude that is strongly sectarian and thus discriminatory. "



UEFA have decided that in our case the melody itself is inextricably linked with a sectarian (discriminatory) attitude.
Man Utd's version, for example, has no such baggage.


Hello, hello we are the Busby Boys, Hello, hello we are the Busby Boys, And if you are a City fan, Surrender or you'll die, We all follow United!

Tunes are now offensive, hahahaha, let's see how that would stand up in court.
 
The best time to have attempted a change of the lyrics would have been while we were in the lower divisions and not involved in Europe. Had that succeeded then we could perhaps have approached UEFA with some hope of reversing the melody ban.
 
"The Chairman of the Appeals Body decided to seek the opinions of experts in the field of sectarianism in Scotland, notably in relation to its historical and sociological context. As a result, two experts, both with a long list of academic qualifications and holding professorships at universities in Great Britain, were asked to submit reports. In fear of possible acts of retaliation against them and their families, both experts requested that their identity not be disclosed to the parties. The Chairman granted this exceptional treatment and decided to add the reports of both experts to the case file and also ordered that the identities and profiles of the witnesses be communicated to the Appeals Body. The parties were given the opportunity to respond to the reports. Rangers FC asked whether either of these experts had any connection with a football club which included unveiling statues or contributing to books or debates focusing on one particular football club or set of supporters."
 
Honestly despair at the thought that ppl are still trying to still circumvent this issue by changing the words etc

I dunno how hard it is to understand.
UEFA have banned the song in all guises.
 
The song TBB originates from the razor gangs in Glasgow in the 30's the name Billy is nothing to do with King William of Orange, it refers to the notorious Billy Fullerton who was the leader of the Brigton' Billy Boys and my father and his twin brother were members of the gang..Their main rivals were the mainly Catholic gang The San Toi from Calton.Part of the lyrics of the song '' We chased the San Toi up the Gallowgate cause we are the Brigton' Billy Boys''..I have not heard those lyrics sung at Ibrox for years
Nice of you to copy from wikipedia.
 
Honestly despair at the thought that ppl are still trying to still circumvent this issue by changing the words etc

I dunno how hard it is to understand.
UEFA have banned the song in all guises.
Hearts, killie... man utd if uefa have banned it differant words or not im sure they will close parts of old trafford as you say the song is banned
 
I know you’ve been banging on about ambiguity, but honestly there isn’t any. This was clarified by the club at the time. The song cannot be sung “in any form”. It genuinely can’t be clearer.

I get it - but you’ve again glossed over the point of my comment which read directly from the judgement:

The opening words “Hello, hello, we are the Billy Boys”, as well as the melody, are sufficient to make an association with an attitude that is strongly sectarian and thus discriminatory.”

From reading that, it is the words and melody combined which the panel conclude is associated with sectarianism.

I’d venture that the only reason you’re not seeing any ambiguity is your own stance on the matter. Which is commendable. But doesn’t mean your reading of it is correct.

The more pertinent point in all of this is that we have apparently exhausted our appeal. My question then is whether we could use this week’s fresh sanction to discuss it again. With UEFA.
 
The annoying thing is Ayr fans sing up to their knees in Killie blood and Dundee sing Arab blood. I await their punishment from the SPFL/SFA.
It's uefa who have punished us though not the SPFL/SFA. Punishment domestically for singing it though definitely looks like it is coming. Your argument becomes if and when we get punished for it domestically; but as the song is hopefully getting binned by our support it won't come to that
 
UEFA banned it in any form. And also because if you think for one second people are going to sing an updated version then you'd deluded and/or naive in the extreme.

Of we are not allowed to sing it in any form then I hope the same counts for every other team that has the same melody i.e. Killie. If not then surely we have a case for discrimination.

Just to poin out, I am in no way advocating that we should be allowed to continue singing TBB or any other "add ons" to other songs. I just think that these rulings about the melody and other non sectarian lyrics should not be applied only to us.

As another side point, If we are singing these songs as a statement against Celtic, then why the need to sing them at every game no matter who we are playing.
 
Years ago my Dad told me these were the original words to the Billy boys anyone else heard these lyrics ?

Hello hello you`ll hear us proudly cry
hello hello as we go marching by
we`ll sing the sash and Derry`s walls
and of the heroes of the Boyne
as we go marching to Ibrox

No F words so wonder if this version would be politically correct !

Forget TBB, that battle is lost.

Never heard those words before.
 
I do realise that the song is not be sung in any form mainly because the connotations of the lyrics are deemed to be offensive by Uefa in these modern times. Even a change of lyrics likely wouldn't prevent some supporters reverting to the established version - and therein lies the problem. For that reason, the song is unlikely to be sung at games again. However, on the off chance that we get our house in order and sing songs acceptable to the powers that be, and relating to posters who clamour for a newer, non offensive version - a wee offering. The fourth line is a bit of a hurry up,

Hello, hello - we are the Rangers boys
Hello, hello - you'll know us by our noise
We're up for the fight - defend our club
No surrender is our cry
We are the Glasgow Rangers boys
 
Years ago my Dad told me these were the original words to the Billy boys anyone else heard these lyrics ?

Hello hello you`ll hear us proudly cry
hello hello as we go marching by
we`ll sing the sash and Derry`s walls
and of the heroes of the Boyne
as we go marching to Ibrox

No F words so wonder if this version would be politically correct !
Don’t you think some would fall into habits and sing the other words ?
 
Tunes are now offensive, hahahaha, let's see how that would stand up in court.
How hard is it to understand that whether it would stand up in court or not is irrelevant? In their judgement, UEFA even acknowledged that.

But - and read this carefully - it does not fucking matter. Not one tiny bit. UEFA have set the rule as it applies to us. We had 10 days to appeal to CAS. 13 years ago. It’s done.

It’s a ridiculous, dangerous precedent. But it’s done. It’s fact. Stop howling at the moon; or some imaginary court. Prepare yourself for the next fight.
 
Of we are not allowed to sing it in any form then I hope the same counts for every other team that has the same melody i.e. Killie. If not then surely we have a case for discrimination.

Just to poin out, I am in no way advocating that we should be allowed to continue singing TBB or any other "add ons" to other songs. I just think that these rulings about the melody and other non sectarian lyrics should not be applied only to us.

As another side point, If we are singing these songs as a statement against Celtic, then why the need to sing them at every game no matter who we are playing.
They shouldn’t. But, until someone else has a similar judgement against them, they do.

I’m off to watch my team. Hopefully people grasp reality soon so that we can all keep doing so.
 
Some misinformation being spread here or misunderstood.

Of course the melody of the BB isn't banned. UEFA cannot ban a 'tune'.

You have to remember, UEFA just get a 'song' reported to them. They have said this song is unacceptable and effectively banned.

Much like Sloop John B (Famine Song) isn't banned...it is the words, not the melody.
I don't know who is right but I do remember after the PSV game it was plainly stated that the song to any tune of different words was also banned.
 
Years ago my Dad told me these were the original words to the Billy boys anyone else heard these lyrics ?

Hello hello you`ll hear us proudly cry
hello hello as we go marching by
we`ll sing the sash and Derry`s walls
and of the heroes of the Boyne
as we go marching to Ibrox

No F words so wonder if this version would be politically correct !
My old man had an old record and the words were
A goal a goal, to win another game
A goal a goal, we'll follow on to fame
And 50 thousand voices will cheer the whole game through
Coz we are the people who cheer the boys in blue
 
According to the evidence at hand, it is obvious that the „Billy Boys‟ song, whatever the lyrics, is far from being just a well-intentioned supporters' song. On the contrary, people from Scotland, when hearing the song, would automatically connect the chant with a general anti-Catholic attitude and the Billy Boys gang of the 1920s... The opening words “Hello, hello, we are the Billy Boys”, as well as the melody, are sufficient to make an association with an attitude that is strongly sectarian and thus discriminatory. "



UEFA have decided that in our case the melody itself is inextricably linked with a sectarian (discriminatory) attitude.
Man Utd's version, for example, has no such baggage.


Hello, hello we are the Busby Boys, Hello, hello we are the Busby Boys, And if you are a City fan, Surrender or you'll die, We all follow United!

So telling city fans to surrender or you’ll die is fine?
Incidentally, I agree it has to go, but they should not be just targeting Rangers. Or at least they should realise that their informants are.
 
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