Is Tuchel the best manager in world football rn?

Scaramanga

Well-Known Member
He's on course to have won nine out of the last twelve league titles he's competed for, yet we have folk saying that he has underwhelmed.

Madness.

Record points total with City among other records broken. He was also the first manager to do 3 in a row in Germany since the 80’s. Implemented a style of football at each of his clubs that people once speculated would never work outside of Barca and away from their la masia graduates.

I get that he’s spent money, but so do all the top clubs, they all spend fortunes. And Guardiola’s record signing at City is Dias at £64m. He never goes out and looks to buy the Messi’s, Ronaldo’s and Neymar’s but rather buys the Jesus’s, Sane’s and Fernandinho’s; players absolutely no one would have marked as the best in their positions when they were bought. He takes players and brings them up a level which is the mark of a brilliant manager.
 

sammysun

Well-Known Member
Tuchel for me has to be up there with the best, I think he came in to the club in January and in a very short time changed the whole way the club played and was run, for me next season will be the next big trial for him and I think he will do well, for Chelsea.
 

BlooBlood

Well-Known Member
Took over in January and was 9th place, leaking goals, weak in attack and looking terrible.

Now firmly in the top 4, in the final of the FA Cup, final of the CL, and 11 clean sheets in 15 EPL games - another record.

Playing constant passing from the back, strong going forward, always playing quality football.

First manager to get to the CL final twice in succession with different teams too.
3 months in the job. Absolutely not.
 

Buffalobluebear

Well-Known Member
Nonsense, the best manager in ra wurld is Stevie Clarke and we know this because the Scottish sports stenographers are never wrong about anything
 

eastenclosurebear

Well-Known Member
Must admit, I was one of the ones that wrote him off when he was announced, but he has done a very good job.

It will be interesting to see what he does with a full season and few upgrades in a few positions.
 

wee bud's pit boots

Well-Known Member
I've hardly watched MOTD this season, but in the few times I have this year he seems to have transformed Chelsea. Whether Lampard wasn't experienced enough or just doesn't have it as a manager time will tell.

But you can't argue with his record.

He seems in such a short time to have transformed Mason Mount from being a great kid with potential to a young player on the cusp of genuine world class.

That touch the other week (can't remember who against?) when he trapped the ball out of nowhere and the slide rule pass to allow Havertz? into score was genuinely the real deal.

I don't think he'll find City so easy easy to play against in the CL final as he did in the FA cup semi, when they deservedly won and Sterling should have been shot post match. Or possibly pre.
 

Sebo23

Well-Known Member
He's came in & made a massive impact at Chelsea but he isn't the first & certainly won't be the last manager to do that. Let's judge him on more than 4 months work!

(I appreciate he's done well in previous jobs but the hyperbole is surrounding his start at Chelsea).
 

Sasa5Papac

Well-Known Member
There's a decent case for it. I rate Pep highly but could he come in halfway through a season and turn a club around the way Tuchel has?
 

prenzlauerbear

Well-Known Member
Frank Lampard and Jody Morris being in charge at Chelsea was just an utterly ridiculous situation. If he had a Michael Beale ace in the pack - a tactical savant in his staff - I could maybe understand the risk. But he never. He couldn't set up a defence if his life depended on it, and dickhead couldn't keep his mouth shut on social media.

I find myself defensive of Tuchel on the basis he isn't Lampard - you could tell the knives were sharpened for him when he came in. But he's a proper world-class manager and was always going to improve that team. They're awesome to watch right now.

Pep is still the daddy. Even Tuchel would tell you that. Funnily, they used to get on well in the Bundesliga - two football geeks nerding out about tactics after the game. If I didn't have Pep as my manager, I'd have Tuchel. Tuchel openly admits that Pep's Barca team changed the way he thought about football.
 
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prenzlauerbear

Well-Known Member
I've hardly watched MOTD this season, but in the few times I have this year he seems to have transformed Chelsea. Whether Lampard wasn't experienced enough or just doesn't have it as a manager time will tell.

But you can't argue with his record.

He seems in such a short time to have transformed Mason Mount from being a great kid with potential to a young player on the cusp of genuine world class.

That touch the other week (can't remember who against?) when he trapped the ball out of nowhere and the slide rule pass to allow Havertz? into score was genuinely the real deal.

I don't think he'll find City so easy easy to play against in the CL final as he did in the FA cup semi, when they deservedly won and Sterling should have been shot post match. Or possibly pre.

Mount has always been tidy tbf. Tuchel has just made him look even better. He's the link player England have been lacking.

If you're highlighting a player under Tuchel at Chelsea, then it has to be Kante. He's been messed about by clueless managers for years, but he has found him a role and is now playing to his full potential.

I can't think of many better footballers than Kante since January. He's been utterly world-class.
 
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willowbankbear

Well-Known Member
Has he won any silver as a manager yet ? That is an honest question btw , I tell you what , he’s done a superb job with Chelsea since he’s arrived , in 2 finals , and looking like he’s got Chelsea as city’s Achilles heel.
I don’t care much for Chelsea but if he gets a decent summer transfer window they won’t be far away next season if this one is to go by .
 

wee bud's pit boots

Well-Known Member
Mount has always been tidy tbf. Tuchel has just made him look even better. He's the link player England have been lacking for years.

If you're highlighting a player under Tuchel at Chelsea, then it has to be Kante. He's been messed about by clueless managers for years, but he has found him a role and is now playing to his full potential.

I can't think of many better footballers than Kante since January. He's been utterly world-class.
As I said I haven't seen much of MOTD all seasson, so I'll take your word on Kante bud.

As you say MM has always looked the part, but seems to have moved up several gears from what I've seen.
 

prenzlauerbear

Well-Known Member
As I said I haven't seen much of MOTD all seasson, so I'll take your word on Kante bud.

As you say MM has always looked the part, but seems to have moved up several gears from what I've seen.


Love hearing a manager get so passionate about his players, especially unfashionable ones.
 

Scaramanga

Well-Known Member
There's a decent case for it. I rate Pep highly but could he come in halfway through a season and turn a club around the way Tuchel has?

He’s never been sacked like Tuchel has so until that happens we’ll never know. But I’d assume so.
 

TN8

Well-Known Member
Not based on 4 months at Chelsea, no.

But there's no denying he's had an incredible impact and is proving alot of people wrong, including me.
 

TQ3

Well-Known Member
I didn’t know a lot about him, and Il be honest I was upset that Frank had been bumped after the previous season, but you have to say that Tuchel has made me and Frank look absolutely amateur!
He has improved defenders to Stevie G levels, and his team play a very enjoyable type of football. Mount has been a fav since Derby, but I am excited to what kind of level he gets coached to by Tuchel.
 

ross89harr

Well-Known Member
I dont think they play good football but they are solid at the back and counter well.

They’ll probably enjoy playing City in the CL final knowing they can soak it up and pounce. If they had a clinical finisher they’d have put 5 or 6 past Real Madrid in the last round.

Tuchel is a good manager but no where near the best.
 

Glasgowsteve

Well-Known Member
Record points total with City among other records broken. He was also the first manager to do 3 in a row in Germany since the 80’s. Implemented a style of football at each of his clubs that people once speculated would never work outside of Barca and away from their la masia graduates.

I get that he’s spent money, but so do all the top clubs, they all spend fortunes. And Guardiola’s record signing at City is Dias at £64m. He never goes out and looks to buy the Messi’s, Ronaldo’s and Neymar’s but rather buys the Jesus’s, Sane’s and Fernandinho’s; players absolutely no one would have marked as the best in their positions when they were bought. He takes players and brings them up a level which is the mark of a brilliant manager.
Pep is a top manager but, and I think this is especially true at Bayern, he can’t be considered a success. He took over an all conquering team and didn’t really improve them. In fact they went backwards in Europe. I think teams bring him in to make them dominant in Europe. He sold off guys like TK and made Bayern well Bayern. They were already the strongest team in Germany. The fact that they’re now closing in on 9IAR shows that.
His record at City is okay. Again he was brought in to win the CL and I suspect he will do that this year (although I want Chelsea to win it). He has done some great football along the way but in my opinion the record breaking side should be going for 4 in a row. I’m sure there is a crazy stat about them spending £400m on defence alone under his watch. Making teams very strong domestically seems to be his speciality. Arguably a better achievement at City compared to Bayern or Barca.
However, Barca were different and there is no doubt he was truly special there. People will debate how good he was in regards to the players already there etc but he was innovative and won the CL and made them the team to beat. It took a JM Madrid to stop their domestic dominance. I consider that a good achievement based purely on how good Barca were. Barca remained strong after he left too.
You can’t dispute his record and it’s clear he is in one of the best. Watching him on All or Nothing shows that. He was at teams that were expected to win or be near the top at least. Klopp’s transformation of Liverpool (despite being poor this season) has been noteworthy, Tuchel has been solid at Chelsea. He’s not won as much as Pep, and most of it was won at PSG. I commented about Pep at Bayern and the same criticism of Tuchel can be made here. TT is a long way from being the best. He needs to win a CL and an EPL before he can be considered a success at Chelsea. I hope he gets the CL this year (because I like Chelsea). Will he win the league? I think it has to be considered. He has a great team and he seems to be getting the best out of them.
TL, DR Tuchel is nowhere near it. Pep is the best in the EPL at the moment.
 

gersandproud

Well-Known Member
There's surely no debate on how improved Chelsea are under Tuchel's short tenure ?

He's not only rectified their shortcomings - & improved on their strengths- he's got them playing soild & impressive football with a real flair - which is a joy to watch imo

If there's any doubt about all this - then it's maybe that they've not been tested quite as much as they could be ?
Some of the teams I'd have expected to give them a better game lately haven't done it
A lot of that may be because of Chelsea's ability to control games - but either way I'm unsure how they'd be if they were really under pressure
 

Blu_ultra

Well-Known Member
Like I’ve said, the money they’ve spent...it’s obscene. And questionable.
Nobody else should have been able to touch city in his tenure. They’ve had these strange “off” seasons that you’re happy to ignore.

And consistent failings in Europe of course. Which I believe will continue. I expect we’ll be seeing Tuchel lifting the European cup at the end of this month. It possibly won’t be pretty, much like when he outthought Pep in the FA cup just recently. But I expect it to be effective nonetheless.

Happily we have a dress rehearsal Tommorow and I think Chelsea will come out on top there also. It will be a real marker for next season I expect Chelsea to lay down
Everyone else in the Premiership is spending ridiculous amounts of money as well. Their net spend this year was 80 million odd - 5th highest in the league. Wages and cumulative spend i get, but look at United as an example of spending money not ensuring success. I really don’t like City, but they 3 league titles in 5 years and a possible CL is a legacy.

Sir Alex Ferguson has 2 CLs in over 20 years - I wouldn’t argue that he built a legacy. Winning the big one is very hard.
 

baystatebear

Well-Known Member
Took over in January and was 9th place, leaking goals, weak in attack and looking terrible.

Now firmly in the top 4, in the final of the FA Cup, final of the CL, and 11 clean sheets in 15 EPL games - another record.

Playing constant passing from the back, strong going forward, always playing quality football.

First manager to get to the CL final twice in succession with different teams too.
Pep is still the 'king' amongst football managers.
 

WinkieWATP

Well-Known Member
Pep is held to a ridiculous standard that no other manager in world football is.

He's still the best in the world for my money although Tuchel has done an excellent job since his arrival.
Agreed this time last season Klopp was getting talked about as best in the world.
 

Pliskers

Well-Known Member
He has done well and is building his reputation. However, I rate folks over a longer span before considering them as the best. That said, there are several top managers right now and I am struggling to choose the best. Pep catches the eye on volume of success across multiple teams and years and is still young. I can see Tuchel continuing to grow but Pep gets the nod from me.
 

Scaramanga

Well-Known Member
Pep is a top manager but, and I think this is especially true at Bayern, he can’t be considered a success. He took over an all conquering team and didn’t really improve them. In fact they went backwards in Europe. I think teams bring him in to make them dominant in Europe. He sold off guys like TK and made Bayern well Bayern. They were already the strongest team in Germany. The fact that they’re now closing in on 9IAR shows that.
His record at City is okay. Again he was brought in to win the CL and I suspect he will do that this year (although I want Chelsea to win it). He has done some great football along the way but in my opinion the record breaking side should be going for 4 in a row. I’m sure there is a crazy stat about them spending £400m on defence alone under his watch. Making teams very strong domestically seems to be his speciality. Arguably a better achievement at City compared to Bayern or Barca.
However, Barca were different and there is no doubt he was truly special there. People will debate how good he was in regards to the players already there etc but he was innovative and won the CL and made them the team to beat. It took a JM Madrid to stop their domestic dominance. I consider that a good achievement based purely on how good Barca were. Barca remained strong after he left too.
You can’t dispute his record and it’s clear he is in one of the best. Watching him on All or Nothing shows that. He was at teams that were expected to win or be near the top at least. Klopp’s transformation of Liverpool (despite being poor this season) has been noteworthy, Tuchel has been solid at Chelsea. He’s not won as much as Pep, and most of it was won at PSG. I commented about Pep at Bayern and the same criticism of Tuchel can be made here. TT is a long way from being the best. He needs to win a CL and an EPL before he can be considered a success at Chelsea. I hope he gets the CL this year (because I like Chelsea). Will he win the league? I think it has to be considered. He has a great team and he seems to be getting the best out of them.
TL, DR Tuchel is nowhere near it. Pep is the best in the EPL at the moment.

He was the first bundesliga manager in several decades to win 3 titles in row. He made them the dominant domestic side they are. Should have done better in the CL to be fair, but then there’s a reason no one had ever retained that trophy until recently, and even Real Madrid needed huge strokes of luck to do it (like coming up against a Bayern side who were missing their two best players in Robben and Ribery). If situations were reversed and Bayern have Robben and Ribery and Madrid were missing Ronaldo and Modric (or Ramos) I get the feeling the outcome would have been quite different.

I don’t get the idea that he should be winning 4 or 5 titles in a row with City either, even Chelsea couldn’t do that when they were comfortably outspending everyone. And last season Guardiola lost the league to a manager who spent more on one solitary defender than Pep has ever spent on any player.

It’s like I said, he doesn’t go out and spend £150-200m on the players deemed to be the top 3 in the world in their position, but that’s the implication that seems to be made by folk who over simply football and take the view that the side who’s spent the most should be finishing above the rest (at times I wished football did work that way, that means we wouldn’t have finished behind Aberdeen twice in recent years, and we wouldn’t have had a second season in the championship either). As @SDF said, Guardiola seems to be held to an unrealistic standard that no other coach is.
 

Bear all

Well-Known Member
Pep is held to a ridiculous standard that no other manager in world football is.

He's still the best in the world for my money although Tuchel has done an excellent job since his arrival.
That goes with the ridiculous amount of money he has at his disposal.
 

Scaramanga

Well-Known Member
Agreed this time last season Klopp was getting talked about as best in the world.

The poll on here was heavily weighted in Klopp’s favour. Not quite an ‘85% in favour of McInnes being next Rangers’ manager level of embarrassing, but still a bit mental. Recency bias is always huge on here though, Dele Alli will be most people’s pick for the Ballon D’or when this Spurs - Leeds game is done.
 

rfc_chris_rfc

Well-Known Member
He’s probably not the best but he’s in the top elite level managers, very good manager who’s transformed Chelsea to a powerhouse team. I do think he’s going to beat pep in the champions league final, tuchel’s system has already got the better of guardiola and a few other top managers.
 

Scaramanga

Well-Known Member
Ridiculous amounts compared to other big clubs in Europe ?

It's not Pep spending £85m on Harry Maguire or £72m on Nicolas Pepe in the EPL. Or £100m+ on a 33 year Cristiano Ronaldo.

Or £100m on Ousmanne Dembele, £150m on Coutinho, £200m on Neymar, £75m on Van Dijk, £100m on Pogba, £80m on Bale, £140m on Mbappe, £110m on Joao Felix, £140m on Hazard, £200m on Griezmann etc etc.
 
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Bear all

Well-Known Member
Ridiculous amounts compared to other big clubs in Europe ?

It's not Pep spending £85m on Harry Maguire or £72m on Nicolas Pepe in the EPL. Or £100m+ on a 33 year Cristiano Ronaldo.
Man City do spend ridiculous amounts of money I don’t think that is up for debate so he should be under more pressure than most Club’s.
 

prenzlauerbear

Well-Known Member
He was the first bundesliga manager in several decades to win 3 titles in row. He made them the dominant domestic side they are. Should have done better in the CL to be fair, but then there’s a reason no one had ever retained that trophy until recently, and even Real Madrid needed huge strokes of luck to do it (like coming up against a Bayern side who were missing their two best players in Robben and Ribery). If situations were reversed and Bayern have Robben and Ribery and Madrid were missing Ronaldo and Modric (or Ramos) I get the feeling the outcome would have been quite different.

I don’t get the idea that he should be winning 4 or 5 titles in a row with City either, even Chelsea couldn’t do that when they were comfortably outspending everyone. And last season Guardiola lost the league to a manager who spent more on one solitary defender than Pep has ever spent on any player.

It’s like I said, he doesn’t go out and spend £150-200m on the players deemed to be the top 3 in the world in their position, but that’s the implication that seems to be made by folk who over simply football and take the view that the side who’s spent the most should be finishing above the rest (at times I wished football did work that way, that means we wouldn’t have finished behind Aberdeen twice in recent years, and we wouldn’t have had a second season in the championship either). As @SDF said, Guardiola seems to be held to an unrealistic standard that no other coach is.

Pep's Bayern team is weirdly underrated. He took German football to another level.
 

Scaramanga

Well-Known Member
Pep's Bayern team is weirdly underrated. He took German football to another level.

I think a lot of people just don’t like Guardiola (whether it be due to his character, the clubs he’s managed or all the hoopla over him, I’m not sure), and thus will never give him his due and continue to poke holes in his record and create obstacles and barriers for him to clear that no other coach has to clear. Or to continue to perpetuate the myth that he spends insane amounts of money buying up all the best players while others competing with him feed off crumbs.

His Bayern side were brilliant, underachieved in the CL but dispatched domestic sides in a manner that hasn’t really been seen in Germany before.
 
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