It does not matter who is playing in central defence...

A

austrianger32

Well-Known Member
we always look vulnerable at the back. While a new quailty central defender is needed in my opinion, it is our set up which allows better teams to create so easily against us (and I know Cardoso WAS poor today). We could already see that against Hibs.

Windass does hardly any defensive work in midfield. Goss is not strong enough to play in such games as a defensive midfielder. And Docherty is more box-tobox for me.

When Celtic still had eleven men on the park, they could pass so easily through our midfield, it was frightening. And even though they more or less gifted us a goal, it soon became obvious that they would score a few today.

I don't think Jack for Goss would be much of a downgrade next season. Goss has more talent, but Jack is better defensively. We should really also consider developing McCrorie as a midfielder, since he clearly fits the bill for what we need in the middle of the park.
 
the_glorious_12th said:
The game was lost in midfield. Goss was surprisingly poor and Docherty was an empty jersey.
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Disagreed. Yes we can see why Goss will never make it at higher level, but when your defence concedes from a clearance up the park it is not the midfields fault.

We’ve also seem a centre forward miss an open goal from 4 yards.
 
We offered our defence no protection at all today. Goss and Docherty were never cutting it.
 
Necro said:
They were both fine today, Cardoso should have done better at their second but the blame for that lays with the midfield
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Eh?

How on Earth is that second goal the midfields fault?

It was a lump up the park from their defence area, Cardoso let Dembele get in on front of him, while Wes was in no mans land.

Wes and Cardoso are solely to blame for that goal.
 
austrianger32 said:
we always look vulnerable at the back. While a new quailty central defender is needed in my opinion, it is our set up which allows better teams to create so easily against us (and I know Cardoso WAS poor today). We could already see that against Hibs.

Windass does hardly any defensive work in midfield. Goss is not strong enough to play in such games as a defensive midfielder. And Docherty is more box-tobox for me.

When Celtic still had eleven men on the park, they could pass so easily through our midfield, it was frightening. And even though they more or less gifted us a goal, it soon became obvious that they would score a few today.

I don't think Jack for Goss would be much of a downgrade next season. Goss has more talent, but Jack is better defensively. We should really also consider developing McCrorie as a midfielder, since he clearly fits the bill for what we need in the middle of the park.
Click to expand...
Windass was anonymous from the 3rd minute onwards
 
Honestly

We had centre halves number 5 and 6 in the pecking order with not a game between them in 6 months

Its obvious the problem
 
You get Murphy and Candeias helping out in wide positions but you could see in 1st half they were concentrating pushing through the middle. We needed Jack and McCrorie in there to protect the back and Dorrans/Docherty playing in a floating role against Brown.

We had it in last game of not losing 1st and then taking chances 2nd. I thought we might have had the balance right this time especially with Windass goal.

Losing Bates so early was a blow also. But I think we need to concentrate summer recruitment in the CD position. Build the strong base, hopefully helps us not lose silly games too.
 
2nd goal was school boy stuff from our centre halves. That goal was shocking.
3rd goal how both Goss and Cardosa don't cover for him coming inside on his right foot was criminal.
Totally gutted. We are getting closer though. Any money we get in summer should b spent on defence
 
austrianger32 said:
we always look vulnerable at the back. While a new quailty central defender is needed in my opinion, it is our set up which allows better teams to create so easily against us (and I know Cardoso WAS poor today). We could already see that against Hibs.

Windass does hardly any defensive work in midfield. Goss is not strong enough to play in such games as a defensive midfielder. And Docherty is more box-tobox for me.

When Celtic still had eleven men on the park, they could pass so easily through our midfield, it was frightening. And even though they more or less gifted us a goal, it soon became obvious that they would score a few today.

I don't think Jack for Goss would be much of a downgrade next season. Goss has more talent, but Jack is better defensively. We should really also consider developing McCrorie as a midfielder, since he clearly fits the bill for what we need in the middle of the park.
Click to expand...
McCrorie was able to turn the last game at Parkhead simply by stopping them from passing the ball freely in midfield and stopping the back four from being constantly turned.
We don't always need such a player against most teams in the SPL, but against the better teams he makes the difference.
Brown does this for them, turning a defensive moment into calm possession and then into an attack.
Walter always used such a tactic against them.

That said, two moments changed the game for me.
One was Bates injury, (sadly Cardoso failed to do the job required), the second was them going down to ten men.
We became complacent and stopped moving the ball forward bravely, and they sat deep and became more secure defensively.

It happens.
 
SuperSwally said:
2nd goal was school boy stuff from our centre halves. That goal was shocking.
3rd goal how both Goss and Cardosa don't cover for him coming inside on his right foot was criminal.
Totally gutted. We are getting closer though. Any money we get in summer should b spent on defence
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Sadly Cardoso should have done better with both goals.
Bates was a huge loss.
 
To think I got laughed at for saying Martin being unavailable was bad news as it meant Alves played

Oh well

As for Cardoso, never ever at the Standard we need, bombscare
 
standardbarger said:
Has anyone not seen how often the galloping full back tav leaves his post empty for centre backs to cover for him I think we should look at the real weakness in our team.
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Glad somebody else noticed it. Once again Tav gets a free pass. Watch his position at their third goal and how many times danger comes from our right hand side when he's posted missing or loses his runner. Keep getting told on here that he's the best right back in the league, Jesus wept.
 
Bighuggybear said:
Remember lads our first shot midfield McCrorie,Jack and Dorrans where missing today,with a bit off luck a couple back for the semi.
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I like Gods and Docherty but we really need a McCrorie type screening the back four for balance especially if we’re allowing Windass that forward role where we’re left a man down on defensive duties
 
Necro said:
They were both fine today, Cardoso should have done better at their second but the blame for that lays with the midfield
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Your kidding right? ...... aimless punt up the park and through them right through on goal. They were a bombs-scare pairing in my opinion.
 
Priority signings are two real Rangers centre halves in the summer.

John Brown should be the main man on the case as part of the scouting department. Walter should be consulted too.
 
On many occadions i thought Tav was watching from the dugout as balls floated into his channel and it was either Goss or CH trying to cover. Whats the point of a marauding full back if he cant do the basics in defending. Either that or this is Murty's instructions
 
Vince said:
Your kidding right? ...... aimless punt up the park and through them right through on goal. They were a bombs-scare pairing in my opinion.
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Aimless punt as a result of absolutely 0 pressing from the midfield, it’s what fucked us today
 
Necro said:
Aimless punt as a result of absolutely 0 pressing from the midfield, it’s what fucked us today
Click to expand...

So a team just need to launch a ball from deep straight through our defence and then goal - and it’s the midfields fault? If they played through the midfield I could see the point for that goal but they bypassed it. The most obvious example of poor defending alone that I can think of. Any decent CB in position there wins the ball.
 
austrianger32 said:
we always look vulnerable at the back. While a new quailty central defender is needed in my opinion, it is our set up which allows better teams to create so easily against us (and I know Cardoso WAS poor today). We could already see that against Hibs.

Windass does hardly any defensive work in midfield. Goss is not strong enough to play in such games as a defensive midfielder. And Docherty is more box-tobox for me.

When Celtic still had eleven men on the park, they could pass so easily through our midfield, it was frightening. And even though they more or less gifted us a goal, it soon became obvious that they would score a few today.

I don't think Jack for Goss would be much of a downgrade next season. Goss has more talent, but Jack is better defensively. We should really also consider developing McCrorie as a midfielder, since he clearly fits the bill for what we need in the middle of the park.
Click to expand...
While I think the defence was the main problem today (2nd and 3rd goals) I always worried about going into these type of games without a hard tackling sitting midfielder like jack or mccrorie and I do think we missed that element today.
 
Vince said:
So a team just need to launch a ball from deep straight through our defence and then goal - and it’s the midfields fault? If they played through the midfield I could see the point for that goal but they bypassed it. The most obvious example of poor defending alone that I can think of. Any decent CB in position there wins the ball.
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Obviously it was poor defending.

We abandoned our game plan of pressing and it cost us
 
Goss and Docherty have never played this fixture before, we need experience in there not newbies
 
Because we only have two men in midfield that is why.
Two wingers and the luxury that is Windass fails us constantly in big games.
 
Defending was poor for the two goals but other than that I thought we defended very well. Alves in particular impressed me. We can’t be too harsh on Cardoso considering he hasn’t played in 6 months! If we had Bates there that full game we would have won in my opinion
 
If we had Jack or McRorie fit I think Windass or Candeias would have been dropped for a holding midfielder, but we didn’t so I think Murty played the best team he could with what he had. He can’t be blamed for having to bring our 5th choice centre half on who is massively short of match fitness
 
We just can't defend, from the midfield back to the defence. We stand off the opposition when we don't have to, then make stupid rash challenges in dangerous positions. Losing yet another goal at the end of the first half was sickening, but we've been there before with that Groundhog Day scenario on countless occasions under Warbs and Pedro. We never learn from our mistakes and the lack of focus and concentration is frightening.
 
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