James Tavernier Hall of Fame?

Absolutely not.
In the pantheon of greats that this club has had over its glorious and illustrious history, you really need to ask yourself the question. Does james tavernier deserve to be amongst some of these greats on a hall of fame? Is he in amongst legends and is he of the same calibre of player and man?
the answer is an emphatic no for me.
He’s not even in the same class or calibre as these captains, and I include Barry ferguson in that bracket even though he shouldn’t really be there either as he wasn’t a great captain, he got away with it with some quality players around him.

not a chance for me.

Utterly embarrassing.

BTW see the Si Ferry Open Goal interviews...every single ex Rangers player (bar none) talks about how much of a leader Fergie was and how much he drove the standards and demanded success etc. Bearing in mind he was a young guy surrounded by genuinely top class players yet he was still seen as a leader amongst them.
 
Even his biggest critics cannot hold the Warburton or Caixinha/Murty, maybe even Gerrard’s first season against him.
I think in the round that's true mate... however at a personal level he had an absolute honker against the spoon burners in that final. That was a massive opportunity for him to pick up silverware as a Rangers captain.

In fact I still wonder to this day if he was injured going into that game, or had been told to stay back. It was an absolutely gutless performance.

Obviously he wasn't on his own that day, I get that.
 
Tav has contributed more to Rangers than Gerrard.
Not sure how you’ve worked that out. Should Gerrard win the league this year, he will have achieved more in a shorter space of time than Tavernier would have in his entire Rangers career. Tavernier has a Ramsden’s cup and a Scottish Championship to his name, in the grand scheme of successful Rangers players/captains, Tavernier’s trophies would get laughed at in comparison.
 
Utterly embarrassing.

BTW see the Si Ferry Open Goal interviews...every single ex Rangers player (bar none) talks about how much of a leader Fergie was and how much he drove the standards and demanded success etc. Bearing in mind he was a young guy surrounded by genuinely top class players yet he was still seen as a leader amongst them.
How dare you speak facts to try and disprove a bizarre statement!.
 
Utterly embarrassing.
What? Tav being mentioned in the same breath as Gough, butcher, shaw? Or me mentioning ferguson isn’t as great a captain as those guys either?

I like ferguson the player, we could be doing with his ability in the middle of the park but he wasn’t a great captain for me. Sorry, but he wasn’t.
He got himself in a few untidy situations that are unbecoming of a rangers captain and that’s not great for me. Aye, he won trophies but it’s how you carry yourself off the park as well and for me he wasn’t the prime expanse of a great captain. Sorry, he wasn’t. Tavernier isn’t even on the same planet as the greats so shouldn’t be anywhere near a hall of fame.

not trying to make anyone bite or Dig me out so I get dogs abuse either, I’m just being honest.
maybe I don’t want my captain sticking two fingers up at a camera or getting my manager sacked.
 
What? Tav being mentioned in the same breath as Gough, butcher, shaw? Or me mentioning ferguson isn’t as great a captain as those guys either?

I like ferguson the player, we could be doing with his ability in the middle of the park but he wasn’t a great captain for me. Sorry, but he wasn’t.
He got himself in a few untidy situations that are unbecoming of a Rangers captain and that’s not great for me. Aye, he won trophies but it’s how you carry yourself off the park as well and for me he wasn’t the prime expanse of a great captain. Sorry, he wasn’t. Tavernier isn’t even on the same planet as the greats so shouldn’t be anywhere near a hall of fame.

not trying to make anyone bite or Dig me out so I get dogs abuse either, I’m just being honest.
maybe I don’t want my captain sticking two fingers up at a camera or getting my manager sacked.
The manager that tried to resign numerous times, effectively committed suicide by Barry Ferguson so he was sacked because Murray refused to accept his resignation?. The manager who said it was okay to routinely drop points against Inverness et al?. You would be the first to complain about mediocrity as a criticism of our current team.
 
If he wins a few league titles, we can debate at the end of his Rangers career.

If he doesn't, he'll go down as an absolute failure, irrespective of goals/assists stats.
 
I think in the round that's true mate... however at a personal level he had an absolute honker against the spoon burners in that final. That was a massive opportunity for him to pick up silverware as a Rangers captain.

In fact I still wonder to this day if he was injured going into that game, or had been told to stay back. It was an absolutely gutless performance.

Obviously he wasn't on his own that day, I get that.

Lee Wallace was the captain then.


Not sure how you’ve worked that out. Should Gerrard win the league this year, he will have achieved more in a shorter space of time than Tavernier would have in his entire Rangers career. Tavernier has a Ramsden’s cup and a Scottish Championship to his name, in the grand scheme of successful Rangers players/captains, Tavernier’s trophies would get laughed at in comparison.

Eh you do realise that if Gerrard wins it this season then Tavernier will have won it also? o_O
 
The manager that tried to resign numerous times, effectively committed suicide by Barry Ferguson so he was sacked because Murray refused to accept his resignation?. The manager who said it was okay to routinely drop points against Inverness et al?. You would be the first to complain about mediocrity as a criticism of our current team?.
with the le guen situation I suppose it’s all about which story your willing to believe. Did le guen try to resign numerous times? Did ferguson try to get him bagged?
I’m entitled to an opinion, I’m just saying I don’t rate ferguson in with the greats, same with tavernier. You do rate ferguson in with them, I’m not going to sully your opinion.
great player, decent captain. Maybe a leader in some of those players eyes and that’s up to them to see it that way. We will have to agree to disagree.
 
with the le guen situation I suppose it’s all about which story your willing to believe. Did le guen try to resign numerous times? Did ferguson try to get him bagged?
I’m entitled to an opinion, I’m just saying I don’t rate ferguson in with the greats, same with tavernier. You do rate ferguson in with them, I’m not going to sully your opinion.
great player, decent captain. Maybe a leader in some of those players eyes and that’s up to them to see it that way. We will have to agree to disagree.

Barry Ferguson in the 02/03 treble winning season was absolutely everything that epitomises a captain.
 
with the le guen situation I suppose it’s all about which story your willing to believe. Did le guen try to resign numerous times? Did ferguson try to get him bagged?
I’m entitled to an opinion, I’m just saying I don’t rate ferguson in with the greats, same with tavernier. You do rate ferguson in with them, I’m not going to sully your opinion.
great player, decent captain. Maybe a leader in some of those players eyes and that’s up to them to see it that way. We will have to agree to disagree.

I thought it was common knowledge that Fergie piped up after we dropped points away to some diddy team after Le Guen said it wasn't a bad result.

Put it this way, Le Guen couldn't get away quick enough and I know who I'd rather have at the club between they two.

The fact that Le Guen made Gavin Rae captain (effectively throwing him under the bus) was a snidey move as well.
 
Lee Wallace was the captain then.




Eh you do realise that if Gerrard wins it this season then Tavernier will have won it also? o_O
Eh you do realise Tavernier played in the same team as Lee Wallace o_O

If you read what I posted, Gerrard will have achieved more in a shorter space of time. Tavernier was part of the team that Celtic took something like 15 goals off in 3 games, that got put out of Europe by part timers. He’s been a perennial loser at Rangers and, for me, winning a league at the 5/6th time of asking under his 4th manager, including Murty, nah he wouldn’t be getting my vote for Hall of Fame
 
I can remember John Grieg talking about the Bayern defeat in the ECWC that he was so livid he threw his medal off the wall of the dressing room,that to me is a winner and no disrespect to Tav,but there's no comparison, especially when we collapsed in a position of strength. He should've been kicking ass and for that reason shouldn't be captain, don't get me wrong he is one of our better players when he cuts out the brain freezes.
 
Moths to an open flame on a summers night for slavering idiots this thread.

The idea the Rangers captain who wins 55 won't be in the Hall of Fame is so incredibly stupid, it would stagger you to realise just how many idiots can make the argument against it.

Do we think we can win 55 with Tav as captain? Different question and people who have their trench dug on their opinion of the best rightback we've had in years can voice that then.
 
Eh you do realise Tavernier played in the same team as Lee Wallace o_O

If you read what I posted, Gerrard will have achieved more in a shorter space of time. Tavernier was part of the team that Celtic took something like 15 goals off in 3 games, that got put out of Europe by part timers. He’s been a perennial loser at Rangers and, for me, winning a league at the 5/6th time of asking under his 4th manager, including Murty, nah he wouldn’t be getting my vote for Hall of Fame

It was pretty obvious but since you struggled to grasp it, the post about Lee Wallace was in reply to the poster who said Tav had a chance to captain Rangers to the Scottish Cup in 2016 - he wasn't the captain then.

And I didn't say he should get in the HOF, I questioned why Gerrard would have more of a claim than him when Tav has clearly contributed more. Gerrard has been here over 2 years now and could be called a perennial loser also.
 
It was pretty obvious but since you struggled to grasp it, the post about Lee Wallace was in reply to the poster who said Tav had a chance to captain Rangers to the Scottish Cup in 2016 - he wasn't the captain then.

And I didn't say he should get in the HOF, I questioned why Gerrard would have more of a claim than him when Tav has clearly contributed more. Gerrard has been here over 2 years now and could be called a perennial loser also.
And in my post again, if you actually read it, I said in comparison to successful players/captains in the Hall of Fame Taverniers trophies that he has to his name (just in case you’re struggling again, he has a Ramsdens cup and a Scottish Championship, he did play in the same team as Lee Wallace so he did win the same trophies, keeping up?) would be laughed at.

Gerrard up to this point yes, he has been. He wins the league this year and the past 2 poor seasons won’t seem as bad. Tavernier on the other hand has had 5/6 season’s in which he’ll have played the majority of games and hasn’t a trophy to his name, he hadn’t even been part of a team to take 3 points from Celtic until Gerrard came in. So, as I said originally, Tavernier no, Gerrard maybe.
 
And in my post again, if you actually read it, I said in comparison to successful players/captains in the Hall of Fame Taverniers trophies that he has to his name (just in case you’re struggling again, he has a Ramsdens cup and a Scottish Championship, he did play in the same team as Lee Wallace so he did win the same trophies, keeping up?) would be laughed at.

Gerrard up to this point yes, he has been. He wins the league this year and the past 2 poor seasons won’t seem as bad. Tavernier on the other hand has had 5/6 season’s in which he’ll have played the majority of games and hasn’t a trophy to his name, he hadn’t even been part of a team to take 3 points from Celtic until Gerrard came in. So, as I said originally, Tavernier no, Gerrard maybe.

Lee Wallace was nothing to do with your original post. The Lee Wallace comment was a reply to another poster :D

If we win the league this year I'm pretty sure mostly all Rangers fans will forget about the past 5/6 seasons and Tav will be regarded a hero forever more.
 
I thought it was common knowledge that Fergie piped up after we dropped points away to some diddy team after Le Guen said it wasn't a bad result.

Put it this way, Le Guen couldn't get away quick enough and I know who I'd rather have at the club between they two.

The fact that Le Guen made Gavin Rae captain (effectively throwing him under the bus) was a snidey move as well.
By the way, I’m not going to disagree that le guen was a total disaster, maybe he wasn’t ready for the job, or maybe he couldn’t handle his captain trying to dig him out. I don’t know, but I do agree that making gavin rae captain was a cunty move, no doubt about it.
I would rather the club captain carry himself in a manner that is an example to his teammates and to his peers, and is an example to those watching him. Off the park there’s a certain expectation for the captain and I just didn’t feel ferguson fitted into that category. Wonderful midfield player, absolutely. I’m differentiating between a great captain and a great player. Tavernier is neither. The whole argument is whether he should be in a hall of fame if he wins 55. He probably will be entered into it, but for me he wouldn’t deserve it.
As another poster politely pointed out to me, 2002/03 season, ferguson epitomises everything a captain should be, that maybe so and that’s probably cemented his place in the hall of fame.
He left at the height of his ability when we could have kept him, he came back and wasn’t the same and controversy usually followed him in some form, especially when he was younger. he’s just not a “great” captain.
 
It's all a matter of perception. If you look at things like service to the club and individual contributions then Tav (for me) warrants at least being discussed in the HOF bracket.

If you look solely at what someone has won or if they've been lucky enough to be part of a winning team then he doesn't.
 
I’m not a fan of Tav and I dont think his stint at Rangers merits a place in the HOF but if he takes us to 55 it would be hard to argue against it.
 
Big season for him personally. I suspect it will be his last no matter the outcome. In five years he hasn’t won / captained us to a major trophy. I don’t think many other Rangers captains will have been given that much leeway. However if we win the league this season then he’ll be viewed as a legend in many quarters.

What a ridiculous statement to make!!! So its the captains fault the team don't perform, the manager is shit, tactics are incorrect or team mates aren't upto scratch!?!
 
What a ridiculous statement to make!!! So its the captains fault the team don't perform, the manager is shit, tactics are incorrect or team mates aren't upto scratch!?!

Calm down mate!

See the discussion about Ferguson in this thread. An outstanding captain is capable of driving a team on achieving more than they might do otherwise. I like Tav, he's a decent guy, but he's way down the list of inspirational captains and Rangers greats in my book.
 
It would depend on the season he has personally. If he steps up, plays a blinder and clearly drags us and the others along with him to it, then maybe!
 
i think so as he would go down in history as the captain who stopped them reaching 9 2/3 in a row.
If he he leads us to 55 this year i will commission a statue of him to be built in my back garden and also get his face tattooed on my chest.

This reply is bookmarked for posterity.
Knowing FF you will be held to this vow.

Looking forward to seeing the tat.:))
 
If invited he will be out of position on the night and fail to remember that his place was to attend. Thus letting everyone down when it matters again
Pathetic.
Simply feckin pathetic.
 
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Yes we are but he's had chances to lift silver.

For me he was as responsible as Kiernan for the defeat to Hibs.
True, but others were as well.
Like Nicky Clark for example who was too busy shouting his mouth off at the bench, or another player to track back when we conceded the corner.
 
Absolutely not.
In the pantheon of greats that this club has had over its glorious and illustrious history, you really need to ask yourself the question. Does james tavernier deserve to be amongst some of these greats on a hall of fame? Is he in amongst legends and is he of the same calibre of player and man?
the answer is an emphatic no for me.
He’s not even in the same class or calibre as these captains, and I include Barry ferguson in that bracket even though he shouldn’t really be there either as he wasn’t a great captain, he got away with it with some quality players around him.

not a chance for me.
Quite possibly the most senseless post I’ve read surrounding the legitimacy of a player’s qualities.
He was only good because he had good teammates?
Did Gough not have Butcher, McCoist, Hateley, Laudrup and Gascoigne?
Did Greig not have Jardine, Johnstone, Cooper, Macdonald, McLean, Stein and Johnston?
 
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Every Hall of Fame in every sport is stupid, because there's no set rules on how to define who is worthy for entry. And it's impossible to set rules, because each entry needs context to truly determine their case. As time goes on, that context is harder and harder to discern.

The best way to record our history is a museum.
I agree.
That said, how would you define “legend” then because, using your critique, we wouldn't have any legends either.
 
I can remember John Grieg talking about the Bayern defeat in the ECWC that he was so livid he threw his medal off the wall of the dressing room,that to me is a winner and no disrespect to Tav,but there's no comparison, especially when we collapsed in a position of strength. He should've been kicking ass and for that reason shouldn't be captain, don't get me wrong he is one of our better players when he cuts out the brain freezes.
If we are using the greatest ever Ranger as a yardstick then the HoF would be rather sparsely populated.
 
I agree.
That said, how would you define “legend” then because, using your critique, we wouldn't have any legends either.
But that's different, because ultimately "legend" is abstract. some folk may view one player as a legend, and others may not, and that's okay. but a hall of fame is binary, you're either in or you're out and it just ends up causing disagreements over players who were all very good for us.
 
Quite possibly the most senseless post I’ve read surrounding the legitimacy of a player.
He was only good because he had good teammates?
Did Gough not have Butcher, McCoist, Hateley, Laudrup and Gascoigne?
Did Greig not have Jardine, Johnstone, Cooper, Macdonald, McLean, Stein and Johnston.
I wouldn’t say it was senseless. I’m making a point that ferguson isn’t as great a captain as the proper greats we’ve had. I say that as a fan of the footballer.
look, I’m not going to argue with people who disagree with me. I didn’t like him as a captain, I stand by it.

And by the way, Gough and Greig couple have captained a team of wet paper bags against the mentally challengeds and beat them because these guys Would have convinced the bags to win, such was their command and leadership. Ferguson didn’t have that. Those guys were born with that.
But as I say, you can have your opinion, I’ll have mine and stand by it. But no. It’s not senseless. Ferguson was a cracking player under advocaat, and has some proper world class talent around him, then was handed a captaincy that was taken off the actual captain, which was a shite move by advocaat in the first place. He had a great season 2002/03, then left us when he could have stayed, then came back and wasn’t the same and lifted some silverware. He courted some controversy which was petulant and childish, and not rangers captain material.
Again, it’s all about opinions. I’ll fight my corner all day long. It’s not trolling anyone or trying to wind anyone up. If you don’t like it that’s fair enough.
 
I wouldn’t say it was senseless. I’m making a point that ferguson isn’t as great a captain as the proper greats we’ve had. I say that as a fan of the footballer.
look, I’m not going to argue with people who disagree with me. I didn’t like him as a captain, I stand by it.

And by the way, Gough and Greig couple have captained a team of wet paper bags against the mentally challengeds and beat them because these guys Would have convinced the bags to win, such was their command and leadership. Ferguson didn’t have that. Those guys were born with that.
But as I say, you can have your opinion, I’ll have mine and stand by it. But no. It’s not senseless. Ferguson was a cracking player under advocaat, and has some proper world class talent around him, then was handed a captaincy that was taken off the actual captain, which was a shite move by advocaat in the first place. He had a great season 2002/03, then left us when he could have stayed, then came back and wasn’t the same and lifted some silverware. He courted some controversy which was petulant and childish, and not Rangers captain material.
Again, it’s all about opinions. I’ll fight my corner all day long. It’s not trolling anyone or trying to wind anyone up. If you don’t like it that’s fair enough.
I too, am happy with my opinion and post.
We’ll need to agree to differ.
 
I'll counter that. Put it this way

Drop a prime Ferguson in our team now and slap that armband on him. Playing with lesser quality players than what he did in his successful teams.

He would lead us to the league this year he is everything we need and everything we lack. A born winner doesn't accept second best and ridiculous ability.

He was an outstanding captain!

(In reply to paulski)
Love the sentiment but I don't think even Barry at his absolute peak could haul us to the title. Not saying we have no chance this year but we still need more quality imo. RB, attacking centre mid,2 strikers
 
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