Jesus Christ! Now Dave King wants the club to love Club 1872 and let Chris Sutton back in!

I have no more questions your honour.

Keep playing I know something you don’t know.

I’ll keep paying Club 1872, hope this stuff gets resolved quietly and that we still have an independent fans group to question our custodians, should the need ever arise again.

Long live the King.

I don't know anything and don't believe I have ever claimed otherwise, TBH, I'm just going by what appearances betray.
But your 'Mr. Neutral just innocently nosing around a bit before I get back to the actual fitba' is fooling nobody. B-D
 
Wouldn't know! You seemed very confident they would, I wanted to know where the confidence came from. I'm guessing you plucked an answer for the sake of it.
I'm confident Dave King's intention is to sell to Club 1872. He's made that very clear.
If they can't buy and he won't sell to anyone else then I guess he's stuck with his shares and ever reducing influence.
 
I'm confident Dave King's intention is to sell to Club 1872. He's made that very clear.
If they can't buy and he won't sell to anyone else then I guess he's stuck with his shares and ever reducing influence.
Club 1872 will never afford his shares as a job lot.
 
Attending board meetings, writing emails and press releases doesn't count for much. That's the issue I have with the accusations. What did he do in the board meetings that constituted leading C1872 in a way he saw fit to? What was in the emails he wrote on behalf of others, did they ask him to write them, did they approve what he wrote?
All we have are C1872's version of events, and, for want of a better description, the requisitioner's version of events. As far as I can see C1872 have rebutted all accusations levelled at them. And none of their accusers have produced a shred of proof to back up what they are accusing C1872 of.
I think you know fine well that that’s not true.

As @Hillheadbear has stated, our roadmap for change outlined a range of concerns, all of which were based on publicly available information; anyone who read the roadmap could easily validate those facts for themselves.

As I posted in a previous thread:
Review what we said in our roadmap for change, on here, on H&H and elsewhere:
  • Donations have fallen.
  • There was no "annual meeting" for a number of years (until Monday night)
  • The £5 per month contribution option was withdrawn for new joiners, quietly and without notifying the Contributors
  • Board meeting minutes stopped being published in September 2018
  • Since 2017 the accounts have not been filed within 9 months of the year end
  • the administrative expenses have exceeded the 5% limit allowed by the Articles in recent years
  • in 2018 the Board of C1872 set a target of 22,000 contributors and £2m per annum to be available for investing into RFC by 2020; they failed to achieve that
  • There has been no news of any activity or achievements by any working group since August 2018 (save for the mention of a "newly formed marketing/advertising team" in the Q1 2021 update)
  • They have failed to get anywhere close to meeting the targets for the legacy campaign
  • It appeared C1872's relationship with the Club had broken down
All of the above were verifiable facts, except the final point. However that has now been confirmed by the Club.
We have, to be fair, subsequently seen some (fairly underwhelming IMO) output from the marketing/advertising working group. But I haven’t seen anything else being “refuted”.
 
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A well run / rebranded C1872 did and could have 4-5 times that.

it's so badly run that I wonder if its intentional. But I can't see the angle behind that - perhaps King wants no route to sell to C1872 so that a board member coughs up.
I completely agree with you on that they were in a healthy position to maybe do just that. Sadly they got their feet well and truly under the table.
 
I don't know anything and don't believe I have ever claimed otherwise, TBH, I'm just going by what appearances betray.
But your 'Mr. Neutral just innocently nosing around a bit before I get back to the actual fitba' is fooling nobody. B-D

Don’t know why. Your either giving my posts way too much credence or you see shadows at every corner. What is the opposite of Mr Neutral in a situation between Rangers, Rangers fans group A and Rangers fans group B? Where in that mix do you perceive me to be ?

Is it because I asked a few times if anyone knew if the confidence breach was about Sports Direct being involved with Castore? Which could change the current narrative.
 
Don’t know why. Your either giving my posts way too much credence or you see shadows at every corner. What is the opposite of Mr Neutral in a situation between Rangers, Rangers fans group A and Rangers fans group B? Where in that mix do you perceive me to be ?

Is it because I asked a few times if anyone knew if the confidence breach was about Sports Direct being involved with Castore? Which could change the current narrative.

I think you are missing the point. The issue has nothing to do with Sports Direct. The issue is that C1872 were given information in confidence by Rangers and breached that confidence by writing directly to Castore.

If there was a concern about Sports Direct then that would be a matter to take up directly with Rangers and not going behind the back of Rangers and contacting a supplier/sponsor of Rangers.

By their actions, the Board of C1872 have lost the trust of Rangers, have lost any access to information about what is going on, have lost the ability to ask those 'tough questions' that you and others deem so important and have lost any influence they might have had.

Whichever way you look at it, the C1872 board have demonstrated a level of incompetence and arrogance which should raise questions as to their fitness to be in that position.
 
I think you are missing the point. The issue has nothing to do with Sports Direct. The issue is that C1872 were given information in confidence by Rangers and breached that confidence by writing directly to Castore.

If there was a concern about Sports Direct then that would be a matter to take up directly with Rangers and not going behind the back of Rangers and contacting a supplier/sponsor of Rangers.

By their actions, the Board of C1872 have lost the trust of Rangers, have lost any access to information about what is going on, have lost the ability to ask those 'tough questions' that you and others deem so important and have lost any influence they might have had.

Whichever way you look at it, the C1872 board have demonstrated a level of incompetence and arrogance which should raise questions as to their fitness to be in that position.

Fair enough. Reads like there was no justification for the confidence breach and they’ve stepped above their station.

It also reads like any fans group who ask an awkward question in the future would be frozen out eventually anyway. That 25% plus 1 shareholding does hold a lot of sway.
 
Fair enough. Reads like there was no justification for the confidence breach and they’ve stepped above their station.

It also reads like any fans group who ask an awkward question in the future would be frozen out eventually anyway. That 25% plus 1 shareholding does hold a lot of sway.

There is no relationship between breaching confidence and asking awkward questions. As an auditor, it was my job to ask awkward questions of management and to get appropriate answers from them. However, there are ways of doing that and ways of escalating matters if you aren't happy with the answers. It all comes down to professionalism, trust and respect between the parties.
 
Fair enough. Reads like there was no justification for the confidence breach and they’ve stepped above their station.

It also reads like any fans group who ask an awkward question in the future would be frozen out eventually anyway. That 25% plus 1 shareholding does hold a lot of sway.
There is never a justification for a group like C1872 breaching trust. If they have concerns they are beholden to their membership to make them aware and to act in the best interests of all involved, not as a small group doing as they please with no mandate from their membership and in a manner likely to cause problems with the club.
 
The Club1872 poodles won't hear a bad word on their utter shitshow.God help us if they get a seat on the board under it,'s current regime.
 
The Club1872 poodles won't hear a bad word on their utter shitshow.God help us if they get a seat on the board under it,'s current regime.
Sadly no chance of that%age is down from circa 10%to under5%. That is not standing still it is going backwards
 
A consultant paid by a company to run the day to day affairs of a body whose only reason for existing it to buy shares in the same company. There's a wee problem in there.
And throw in that the reason for 1872 existing is not just to buy shares but to hold the company to account on behalf of their investors.

However on another point throughout this thread, the person who broke commercial confidence about the Castore contract was not 1872 it was Stewart Robertson by him discussing it with 1872. 1872 ‘merely’ broke trust with the club by revealing that to Castore in a clumsy and stupid attempt to hold the club to account on the value of the contract.

Meanwhile, how much ‘dead’ money is sitting in 1872.

Not an 1872 investor but from the outside looks utterly shambolic and needs re-invented as per the outline in the Marshall proposal
 
There is no relationship between breaching confidence and asking awkward questions. As an auditor, it was my job to ask awkward questions of management and to get appropriate answers from them. However, there are ways of doing that and ways of escalating matters if you aren't happy with the answers. It all comes down to professionalism, trust and respect between the parties.

No? I sure wish the club had an auditor like you from 2000 to 2012.
 
And throw in that the reason for 1872 existing is not just to buy shares but to hold the company to account on behalf of their investors.

However on another point throughout this thread, the person who broke commercial confidence about the Castore contract was not 1872 it was Stewart Robertson by him discussing it with 1872. 1872 ‘merely’ broke trust with the club by revealing that to Castore in a clumsy and stupid attempt to hold the club to account on the value of the contract.

Meanwhile, how much ‘dead’ money is sitting in 1872.

Not an 1872 investor but from the outside looks utterly shambolic and needs re-invented as per the outline in the Marshall proposal
Great point regarding the castore email
 
I don't really get the fixation on Chris Graham here. First, lots of companies pay people to do 'investor relations' and C1872 is an investor in Rangers.

Second, when you are running a business, you generally want to have people you know and trust in key positions. Dave King was chairman of Rangers and he wanted CG in there with him. All perfectly normal.

When Dave King moved on, CG was out because his face didn't fit with the new management. Again, pretty normal stuff. Apparently it upset the C1872 board but who cares?

So does CG still have influence at C1872? Yeah, probably and that is down to certain members of the current board. Should he have influence? That will depend on what value he brings to the table.

The issue isn't really CG, the issue is transparency and accountability from the C1872 board to their 'members' and that is what is really lacking here.That is also true of the extent of influence that Dave King has over C1872. Who is really running C1872 and is the C1872 board representing their members or Dave King?

And, of course, the financial performance of the C1872 board has been terrible.
You "don't get the fixation" with a disgraced former RFC director whose presence is so toxic, his role at the club was kept secret for 5 years? What exactly don't you get?
 
You "don't get the fixation" with a disgraced former RFC director whose presence is so toxic, his role at the club was kept secret for 5 years? What exactly don't you get?

Because the issue isn't Chris Graham. Nobody forced him on Rangers and nobody forced him on C1872. He was there because the decision makers wanted him to be there and he left Rangers when that particular decision maker moved on.

I don't have any particular view on Chris Graham. I don't know him, I have never worked with him and I have never interacted with him. But if you don't want him around C1872 then the solution is to get rid of the board members who are keeping him there.
 
And throw in that the reason for 1872 existing is not just to buy shares but to hold the company to account on behalf of their investors.

However on another point throughout this thread, the person who broke commercial confidence about the Castore contract was not 1872 it was Stewart Robertson by him discussing it with 1872. 1872 ‘merely’ broke trust with the club by revealing that to Castore in a clumsy and stupid attempt to hold the club to account on the value of the contract.

Meanwhile, how much ‘dead’ money is sitting in 1872.

Not an 1872 investor but from the outside looks utterly shambolic and needs re-invented as per the outline in the Marshall proposal

Good point.
 
Great point regarding the castore email
It’s not really a fair point. We all wanted C1872 to be treated with respect by the Club as a Fans Group holding 5% of the shares.

Stewart Robertson agreed to a meeting and disclosed information to them in confidence and trusted them
C1872 then broke that trust and refused to acknowledge it.

Most C1872 members expect our cash to be invested in new shares with money going to the club. We don’t want to buy out a existing shareholder.

Dave King has every right to sell his shares but he has no right to engage in spurious accusations against the current board.

He left and should accept his status as the man who led us out of the wilderness.
He has resigned, stopped investing and wants cash back. He should allow the Board to get on with running the club
 
It’s not really a fair point. We all wanted C1872 to be treated with respect by the Club as a Fans Group holding 5% of the shares.

Stewart Robertson agreed to a meeting and disclosed information to them in confidence and trusted them
C1872 then broke that trust and refused to acknowledge it.

Most C1872 members expect our cash to be invested in new shares with money going to the club. We don’t want to buy out a existing shareholder.

Dave King has every right to sell his shares but he has no right to engage in spurious accusations against the current board.

He left and should accept his status as the man who led us out of the wilderness.
He has resigned, stopped investing and wants cash back. He should allow the Board to get on with running the club
Have you carried out a vote of members and confirmed that?

And I know neither did they and they should have. I've mentioned previously when it was first announced I wasn't happy as I wanted my contributions to go straight to the club but I quickly realised that mindset would never see us achieve a 25% stake in our club unfortunately.

That mindset is probably the difference between me and the requistioners, I think c1872 should be aiming for the 25% but it seems most of them don't believe in fan representation and believe that members contributions should go straight to the club. Possibly lj50 might be the only one that seems to actually buy into the fan representation ethos I have big doubts about the others.

Mygers should be their preferred route then. I do both ;)
 
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Have you carried out a vote of members and confirmed that?

And I know neither did they and they should have. I've mentioned previously when it was first announced I wasn't happy as I wanted my contributions to go straight to the club but I quickly realised that mindset would never see us achieve a 25% stake in our club unfortunately.
No Snoop, it was more based on friends that said so
 
Because the issue isn't Chris Graham. Nobody forced him on Rangers and nobody forced him on C1872. He was there because the decision makers wanted him to be there and he left Rangers when that particular decision maker moved on.

I don't have any particular view on Chris Graham. I don't know him, I have never worked with him and I have never interacted with him. But if you don't want him around C1872 then the solution is to get rid of the board members who are keeping him there.
Graham forced himself on Rangers, appearing from nowhere as a self-appointed fan spokesman before crawling up Dave King's rear-end. I genuinely don't get your point on this. If you don't have a view of Graham and you don't think he is the issue, why are you questioning people who have totally justified concerns over Graham's utterly baffling involvement in C1872's affairs over the last 5 years? If you think Graham is such an irrelevance that you can't even muster an opinion about him, why bother posting about him?
 
The problem is Mr King is failing to realise just how toxic C1872 is to the fans right now.

You can throw a dead horse at someone all you like but it’s still dead.

All this is King trying to galvanise a support around C1872 so it is easier to get his money back.

Sorry to have to tell him until the current board members and perhaps some shadow members leave, it will remain that way
Am I wrong, or did Club 1872 not approach Castor, about something that was none of their business. The Rangers board had to step in and sort out the mess. Is this not where the acrimony started.
 
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