Jock Wallace's Tenure: 1983-86

dublinbluenose said:
I wonder as well if Ferguson and McLean looked at the budgets they were going to get and thought it wasn’t enough to turn it around.like I said earlier first thing david Holmes did was rip up the wage structure.
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Quite possibly, although I’m sure I read before that McLean said he would have taken the job had we simply approached him first.

Ferguson is certainly the one that got away, but had he taken the job in ‘83 and made a success of it, might he still have been tempted by the Man U job three years later? By which time maybe the window of opportunity would have been lost where Souness was concerned.
 
The Barcelona Bear said:
By the end of his second tenure attendances had diminished and a change was needed.
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Attendances held up remarkably well under Wallace in his second spell, well by the standards of the day. Our low point, attendance wise was under John Greig in 1982-83 when our average dipped well under 20,000.

Change was most certainly needed in 1986 though.
 
Jock Wallace is a bona fide Rangers Legend, however his 2nd spell as Manager was an error of judgement on his part and the club’s. Football wise we had gone from the dominant force in Scotland and having mastered the cream in Europe to languishing mid table, failing to respond to the new threat from Aberdeen and Dundee Utd and regularly humiliated, in a relatively short period of time.

The big man’s powers were clearly on the wain and his appointment was a panic move after the more likely candidates became unavailable. The board was in flux during his second spell, which didn’t help but this appointment was always doomed to failure.
 
Alex Venters said:
Attendances held up remarkably well under Wallace in his second spell, well by the standards of the day. Our low point, attendance wise was under John Greig in 1982-83 when our average dipped well under 20,000.

Change was most certainly needed in 1986 though.
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I have always believed that John Greig could have made a good manager had he been developed properly and allowed to cut his teeth elsewhere but the board panicked when Wallace left and rushed him upstairs to soon. Left alone he would possibly have played for another couple of seasons
 
A giant of a man and a pure gentleman with a heart as big as his shovel hands.who never ever forgot about his roots and made sure the local community were looked after where he could do so.
 
Alex Venters said:
Attendances held up remarkably well under Wallace in his second spell, well by the standards of the day. Our low point, attendance wise was under John Greig in 1982-83 when our average dipped well under 20,000.

Change was most certainly needed in 1986 though.
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Iirc despite a horrific season we still had the biggest average attendance in the 85/86 season.i started going most weeks in the 82/83 season and I can’t remember the attendances under jock being as bad as they were in 82/83.we were scraping just over 10’000 for a 3 o clock kick on a Saturday for some games against the likes of Morton,st mirren and kilmarnock in the 82/83 season
 
dublinbluenose said:
Iirc despite a horrific season we still had the biggest average attendance in the 85/86 season.i started going most weeks in the 82/83 season and I can’t remember the attendances under jock being as bad as they were in 82/83.we were scraping just over 10’000 for a 3 o clock kick on a Saturday for some games against the likes of Morton,st mirren and kilmarnock in the 82/83 season
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There were a few games the crowd was under 10k , I can remember me and mates having a whole section of the Govan to ourselves at one game .
 
Brother Crockett said:
The first four lines could equally apply to Aberdeen at that time. We had Craig Patterson and a guy from Mansfield reserves. No doubt, Jock Wallace restored some of the pride knocked out of us in the latter stages of John Greig’s tenure- but- the team was in transition and he would never have been able to supplement the younger generation of quality with the international class Souness was able to bring in.
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Guy from Mansfield’s reserves! John McClelland, Club captain and also captain of Northern Ireland playing in two World Cup tournaments. A very good player who only left Rangers due to the parsimony of the Board. He was a forerunner to the Cooper contract scenario of a few years later with the Board unwilling to pay a signing on fee at contract renewals (Iirc).

We were not a great team, and Wallace may indeed have been hindered by the Board lacking belief in their Manager or being over prudent. However McClelland was a player who could have had a team built around him.
 
Grant K said:
Guy from Mansfield’s reserves! John McClelland, Club captain and also captain of Northern Ireland playing in two World Cup tournaments. A very good player who only left Rangers due to the parsimony of the Board. He was a forerunner to the Cooper contract scenario of a few years later with the Board unwilling to pay a signing on fee at contract renewals (Iirc).

We were not a great team, and Wallace may indeed have been hindered by the Board lacking belief in their Manager or being over prudent. However McClelland was a player who could have had a team built around him.
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We still had some very good players during those wilderness years. McClelland, Bett, Russell, Prytz, Cooper and McCoist should have been the nucleus of a side that was challenging for the title every season, but neither Greig or Wallace could get them to gel as such.

This was the difference with Ferguson and McLean.

When you look at some of the players Aberdeen and Dundee United had winning titles and getting to European finals, there was no reason why we should have been as poor as we were.

We knew it at the time. Iain Ferguson was an exciting signing for instance, but it never really worked out for him, yet McLean had him flying a few short years later at Tannadice.

Wallace could spot a player as his faith in the likes of Durrant, Ferguson and Fleck showed, but he seemed to have lost the ability to get them to gel as a cohesive unit able to sustain a title challenge against much better and well drilled opponents.
 
Grant K said:
Guy from Mansfield’s reserves! John McClelland, Club captain and also captain of Northern Ireland playing in two World Cup tournaments. A very good player who only left Rangers due to the parsimony of the Board. He was a forerunner to the Cooper contract scenario of a few years later with the Board unwilling to pay a signing on fee at contract renewals (Iirc).

We were not a great team, and Wallace may indeed have been hindered by the Board lacking belief in their Manager or being over prudent. However McClelland was a player who could have had a team built around him.
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Don't agree. Big McClelland was another player who was okay, but not good enough over the course of a season or in the big games. You build a Rangers team around Terry Butcher or Carlos Cuellar, not John McClelland . Add numerous players to that list McKinnon, Prytz, Sandy Clark, Patterson, Dawson, Derek Johnstone.

We simply didn't have the players to compete with the likes of King Richard, Miller, big Eck, Hegarty, Narey, Strachan, Sturrock, Bannon. Our youngsters were very promising by 85/86, but ask yourself this, out of our team around that time who would have got in Aberdeen's CWC winning side, who other than Coop? Maybe Jim Bett. For all Jock got us a couple of badly needed trophies, his day had come and gone and for all the Gullane Sands treatment, Souness didn't think our players were fit enough. The big man gave us back some great days, but didn't restore the club's greatness.
 
I was away from Scotland from the mid-70s and only saw Rangers on fleeting visits for games against Celtic and Cup Finals. I only saw one game in Jock’s final season, early on against St Mirren when we won 3-0. Jock had introduced Durrant, Fleck, Derek Ferguson late on the previous season and I was seeing the team he was trying to build for the first time. When I left I told all my friends and family that with the addition of a top goalkeeper, centre-back and midfield player Rangers would be champions of Scotland and a force in Europe within two years. At the end of that season Souness arrived and brought in Woods and Butcher to fulfil my forecast. We owe a lot to Big Jock for what he achieved in his second spell under difficult circumstances.
 
Like many, I followed 'Big Jock's' career after both spells. He managed Well at their midden just before his 2nd spell. McClelland was in a huff, played out of position & we were humped. Singing Jock's name was the highlight that day. Still devoted to the memory of Mr. Wallace.
 
dh1963 said:
Jock Wallace signed striker Iain Ferguson from Dundee in 1984.
Graeme Souness signed midfielder Ian Ferguson from St Mirren in 1988.
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Nae offence to the former of the two but same names, ok different spelling, that's where the comparison ends. Chalk and Cheese when it comes to talent.
 
The Barcelona Bear said:
I have always believed that John Greig could have made a good manager had he been developed properly and allowed to cut his teeth elsewhere but the board panicked when Wallace left and rushed him upstairs to soon. Left alone he would possibly have played for another couple of seasons
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Maybe one more season.
We should've gone for Ferguson, he was desperate for the call.
 
Alex Venters said:
Maybe one more season.
We should've gone for Ferguson, he was desperate for the call.
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Greig was one game away from making it. However I believe it would have only put off the inevitable demise of the game here. this was only rescued by the chalk and cheese of Souness. Love him (us) or loathe him (everyone else (Scum and Aberscum in particular)) Souness rescued Scottish football from an abyss. Sorry for going off track!

Ferguson was interviewed for the job but was put off by Donald. Would he have been given the time Man U. gave him - even they were at the end of their tether when they won the FA cup at the replay. Had he lost that things could have been very different.
Once again sorry for off topic but everyone's long term future can swing on single events.
 
Bill Struth said:
There were a few games the crowd was under 10k , I can remember me and mates having a whole section of the Govan to ourselves at one game .
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Me and my mate used to stand in the EE and have a wee bet with each other on which Colour would the govan stand get to with people sitting in them.
 
Teuchterblue said:
Not to nitpick but wasn't Iain Ferguson at the time a record transfer between Scottish clubs?
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I thought Iain Ferguson was a marvellous player...especially for Scumdee Hibs in their European run. Scored for us against Inter Milan and scored a belter for Hearts against Bayern Munich IIRC?
 
Iain Ferguson was under rated, i thought he was a good striker.
When talking about him , i say the better looking Ferguson to define him against Ian.
 
jim_baxter1960 said:
Greig was one game away from making it. However I believe it would have only put off the inevitable demise of the game here. this was only rescued by the chalk and cheese of Souness. Love him (us) or loathe him (everyone else (Scum and Aberscum in particular)) Souness rescued Scottish football from an abyss. Sorry for going off track!

Ferguson was interviewed for the job but was put off by Donald. Would he have been given the time Man U. gave him - even they were at the end of their tether when they won the FA cup at the replay. Had he lost that things could have been very different.
Once again sorry for off topic but everyone's long term future can swing on single events.
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Had Ferguson been offered the job in 1978 he would've turned us around,but not as quickly or as dramatically as Souness did. I doubt the wage structure in place would've been altered dramatically for Fergie and, of course, he could never have persuaded players similar in standing to Butcher, Woods or Roberts to come North.
 
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Dan said:
Remember his return like it was yesterday. My dad took me to Pittodrie for his first game back as a young lad and I could feel from his delight someone special had returned home. Even after a 3-0 drubbing the fans chanted his name at the end of the match. This is when I realised what it was to be a Ranger. We have had much success since but to me Jock Wallace will always be my hero as he gave me a love of our club forever.
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We got locked out of Pittodrie that day. Tried everything to get in including their end. Hundreds if not thousands didn't get in.
 
Boldvale said:
We got locked out of Pittodrie that day. Tried everything to get in including their end. Hundreds if not thousands didn't get in.
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I might be mixing the games up, but Jock's first home game in his second spell in 1983 was against Dundee United. I think big DJ played for United that day on loan from Chelsea?
 
FedUpBear said:
Not sure, think he and Cammy Fraser were signed on the same day so may have been a joint fee. I wouldn't be surprised if you are proved correct though...
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Rangers offered £400,000 for both players.

Both went to a tribunal and we ended up paying £200k for Ferguson & £ 165k for Fraser.
 
Taki said:
Turned McCoist into the striker he became. Gave Durrant his chance. Brought in the likes of Fleck, Munro and Ferguson. Wasn’t a terrible squad - as Souness found out. Just needed a bit of quality to bring it on.

The board had their heart set on Ferguson or McLean. Jock was Plan C. I can well believe the board were reluctant to commit. He got a raw deal off Rangers - twice!
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And to his dying day he didn't say a bad word about the club he loved.
 
Alex Venters said:
Had Ferguson been offered the job in 1978 he would've turned us around,but not as quickly or as dramatically as Souness did. I doubt the wage structure in place would've been altered dramatically for Fergie and, of course, he could never have persuaded players similar in standing to Butcher, Woods or Roberts to come North.
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You’d like to think guys like Miller and McLeish would have been attracted to Ibrox had Ferguson taken the job in ‘78, although whether the board would have agreed to stump up the cash for them is a different question.

Maybe even someone like Leighton would have made the move too, but Ferguson was a genius at spotting raw talent and getting the very best out of relatively ordinary players so I’m sure he would have made more prudent signings for the club than either Greig or Wallace did

If he was able to build a side capable of winning a trio of league titles and Scottish cups plus a European trophy in the space of just half a dozen years at Aberdeen, it’s almost unthinkable to imagine he’d have been significantly less successful at Rangers.

I still think he’d have left us for Man U however. Ferguson always said it was the biggest job in British football and he may have outgrown Scottish football by the time they came calling in ‘86.
 
dh1963 said:
I might be mixing the games up, but Jock's first home game in his second spell in 1983 was against Dundee United. I think big DJ played for United that day on loan from Chelsea?
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His first game back was Aberdeen at Pittodrie.
 
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