"John McGinn will prove to be a better player than Barry Ferguson over the course of his career"

AllanD

Well-Known Member
Completely agree that it was an excellent achievement of him.

But would he be less of a player if he wasn’t captain? No. Thus, not really sure of the relevance.

Plenty of players far better than title winning captains never captained their side, let alone won anything.
You mean if Barry wasn't a captain he would still be the same player? His leadership and raising the game of others around him certainly was an additional attribute which made him a better player.

If Tav had Barry's leadership abilities, and that's what they are, he'd be a better player and more effective for example. You can't just take an attribute away from a player because it doesn't fit your argument. it's not just having an armband, he led with distinction and dragged others up with him, his leadership helped us achieve. Unlike Tav who some will say just wears the armband.

If in your strange argument Ronaldinho was a leader who could bring the best out of other players by motivating them. He'd be better than he was, which was still phenomenal. It would be an addition to his string to his bow.

Or perhaps if Rino Gattuso wasn't as aggressive or hard working, he'd still be as good a player? Mental attributes most definitely make a difference in a player abilities. If they didn't, Thomas Buffell would be a better player than Gattuso. Leadership skills and being a good captain certainly helps a player be a better player than just technical or physical attributes allow.
 
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dh1963

Well-Known Member
I've never heard of this journalist. Usually utter bullshit like this has one of two reasons.

The journalist has a hatred of Rangers that blinds him to common sense

Or

The journalist is trying to get noticed so says something controversial to get noticed.

Is it both...?
 
Wee Stefan has form. No wonder he ended up at the BBC.

There’s not being able to contain your bitterness for common or garden jibes and then there’s letting your hatred get so out of control you completely undermine your little remaining credibility with through the looking glass stuff.
 

Peekaboo

Well-Known Member
I never said Ferguson wasn’t a good player did I? And yes, of course it’s a validation of how good an individual is.

What it isn’t, though, is a valid metric for comparisons between players.

I go back to Ronaldinho, clearly a better player and not a captain.

It’s irrelevant when comparing two players.
Captaining a side takes ability and is a skill in itself. It’s about being a leader on the park and dare I say it if we had one just now then we could be in with a chance of winning the league.
 

a_weir

Well-Known Member
Captaining a side takes ability and is a skill in itself. It’s about being a leader on the park and dare I say it if we had one just now then we could be in with a chance of winning the league.
It absolutely does and I completely agree.

However, the can only be one captain in each team. I’d personally say that De Boer was better than Ferguson that season but he wasn’t captain so I guess he doesn’t count, right?
 

GeeGee

Well-Known Member
McGinn’s already well older than Ferguson when when the latter was running games in the Champions League.

McTominay will have a decent career but it won’t be at Man U level.
 

Peekaboo

Well-Known Member
It absolutely does and I completely agree.

However, the can only be one captain in each team. I’d personally say that De Boer was better than Ferguson that season but he wasn’t captain so I guess he doesn’t count, right?
Wrong. Why wouldn’t De Boer count? He was a very skilful player but he wasn’t captain as a Ferguson was a better leader. Different skills.

You said being a captain wasn’t any form of measure but it clearly is. You don’t give a captains armband to anyone.

The point is McGinn isn’t as skill full as Ferguson and he’s not a leader like Ferguson. He will never captain a treble winning side.
 
Oor Barry, eh.
What a player! Remember the season he and RdB were to and fro in the goalscoring charts, skelping them in for fun? Hard to say who was the most accomplished performer. Both had the vision, skill, grit and know-how to change a game and entertain.
Barry could receive the ball anywhere, even when tightly marked. He knew what he was going to do with it before he got it. His vision was impeccable. Always played with his head up, like the very best players do. Today, and then, he could hold his own with the World's very best. In today's crazy pricing he'd be worth a fortune.
Barry Ferguson should/would get into an all time Scotland 11. Most commentators/pundits would agree, had he gone to England early in his career, because he would have done the biz, no probs.
He didnt though, he did the biz for us. Cheers Barry.

Anyway, who's this no mark McGinn that smelltic didnt even want. Hibs to 2nd div Villa? ffs you couldn't make it up.
 

senefelder

Well-Known Member
Without merely repeating some very well made points on this thread, lauding John McGinn highlights the paucity of talent available to any Scottish manager. Robertson and Tierney aside there is hardly a player worthy of being described as International class, and I include Calum McGregor in that.
 

dazzapat

Well-Known Member
I mentioned this in my office today to a tim and a hearts fan.

Their instant reaction together was ‘aye, McGinn is better.’

When I then said ‘so, McGinn who has played for St Mirren, Hibs and Villa and only one a single cup is better than Ferguson who was a treble winning captain at Rangers, various domestic cups, champions league and UEFA cup runs plus a euro final, over 100 Premier league performances and a league cup with Birmingham’

‘Aye’ was the response from both.

That’s what you’re up against
 
Peak Barry Ferguson was the best British midfielder around at the time. And yes I include Gerrard in that.

I don’t think people realise quite how good he was. Still remember the night he took Bayern Munich to the cleaners in their own stadium.

If it wasn’t for injuries he’d have been Keane’s replacement at Man Utd - Sir Alex had him earmarked for that role after he’s settled in the EPL for a season at Blackburn. It was a tragic shame he wasn’t able to live out his career potential but I feel privalaged that we saw him at Rangers between 1999 and 2003. He was the perfect central midfielder.
 

Bowery Boy

Well-Known Member
Had a few Twitter exchanges with the guy and he’s sound enough. I assume this is the first time you’ve come across him?

He’s way off with this though and trying far too hard to make a case for current Scotland players being better than what’s been there for the past 10/15 years.
No. It isn't. He's been a roaster for years. Does he still call us Sevco?
 

pelem

Well-Known Member
First and foremost McGinn has to reach the English Premier League to even have a chance of proving anything.

Who's to say he can dae that.
 

mark hateley

Well-Known Member
Ferguson at 24 was the captain of his club, his country, proven himself in the Champions League, bossed England at Wembley, won a treble, 2 doubles and was about to captain us to another treble.

McGinn at 24 plays in the English Championship and cannot get off the bench against San Marino
Imagine the facts.

Just for a moment.

But McGinn could play in England's top flight and could play in CL and could win the EPL and could.

Ferguson is ten times the player.
 

TCWNS1872

Well-Known Member
Why are we even debating the ramblings of this clown and thereby legitimising him? Look at his Chevvy Chase on the Twitter feed ffs!

Anyone who knows anything about football (dhims included) would know that his assertion is ludicrous.
 
I mentioned this in my office today to a tim and a hearts fan.

Their instant reaction together was ‘aye, McGinn is better.’

When I then said ‘so, McGinn who has played for St Mirren, Hibs and Villa and only one a single cup is better than Ferguson who was a treble winning captain at Rangers, various domestic cups, champions league and UEFA cup runs plus a euro final, over 100 Premier league performances and a league cup with Birmingham’

‘Aye’ was the response from both.

That’s what you’re up against
You made the mistake of talking to a tim and a diddy club fan about football.
 
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