Kenny Miller having a dig

Has anyone thought that it is the environment that is to blame . It’s not about development at the HTC but about results .
Too many young players not playing enough football in our system and coaches only interested in their own profile . Often called the HTC mafia
 
RFC_Champions said:
No it’s not mate. That’s why I said you were away on a tangent.

We “lost an opportunity” not necessarily by using our own youth players, many of which weren’t up to it - but we could’ve/should’ve opted for or taken a chance on more youthful recruits from other parts of Scotland, UK or abroad.
Would they have been a rip roaring success - who knows?
Would the have joined our club? Most certainly considering the money we paid black, bell, Cribari.
Would we still have got promoted each season? Absolutely. I played in that division, it’s dire and a step down from most top junior leagues. Aucinleck Talbot could’ve won that league.

There was an opportunity there that we never exploited. Instead, we threw money at has beens to get us promoted.
Opportunity lost for the club thanks to the manager, board and Sinclair at the time.
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Have you read the OP? Miller is having a dig about a lack of home grown talent. That's where the discussion started.

Our 17 years olds, in 2012 weren't good enough long term to become internationalists for Scotland.

Kal Naismith, Robbie Crawford, Blair Currie, Darren Cole, Kyle Hutton, Andy Murdoch, Tom Walsh, Daniel Stoney

NONE of these guys made much of a career at any level let alone get near the national team...and they were the highly rated ones.

Sinclair's youth set up was a shambles.

The point isn't that it was an opportunity lost. The point is that the opportunity for it to happen simply wasn't there and you're ignoring the reality of the situation to suit what you wanted to happen.

Certain players weren't required (Cribari etc) bit the converse of that isn't simply that we had an untapped youth setup which would have made (the right) headlines and we lost a Rangers version of the class of 92.

We could have done better during NIAR and yet we didn't. No club has perfect singing ratios. No one is arguing money was wasted but that was also the case during our peak in the 90s let alone during a period when we were scrambling for a licence to play football 24 hours before we kicked off our campaign.

Theres no point in saying it was an opportunity lost now when it was never in a position to happen. It's not like we had both paths to choose from and went the wrong way

Neither option was a positive solution
 
Laudrup1 said:
Have you read the OP? Miller is having a dig about a lack of home grown talent. That's where the discussion started.

Our 17 years olds, in 2012 weren't good enough long term to become internationalists for Scotland.

Kal Naismith, Robbie Crawford, Blair Currie, Darren Cole, Kyle Hutton, Andy Murdoch, Tom Walsh, Daniel Stoney

NONE of these guys made much of a career at any level let alone get near the national team...and they were the highly rated ones.

Sinclair's youth set up was a shambles.

The point isn't that it was an opportunity lost. The point is that the opportunity for it to happen simply wasn't there and you're ignoring the reality of the situation to suit what you wanted to happen.

Certain players weren't required (Cribari etc) bit the converse of that isn't simply that we had an untapped youth setup which would have made (the right) headlines and we lost a Rangers version of the class of 92.

We could have done better during NIAR and yet we didn't. No club has perfect singing ratios. No one is arguing money was wasted but that was also the case during our peak in the 90s let alone during a period when we were scrambling for a licence to play football 24 hours before we kicked off our campaign.

Theres no point in saying it was an opportunity lost now when it was never in a position to happen. It's not like we had both paths to choose from and went the wrong way

Neither option was a positive solution
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Did we have a youth player involved in the East Fife game?
 
It's undeniable that we've not done well at consistently producing and holding onto talented youth players coming through.

Some of it is through circumstance like MacLeod but irrespective we have to be better.
 
Laudrup1 said:
No, they were all told they were being grouped together for training and playing ahead of the Chellenge Cup game against Stranraer in the midweek game
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Your spelling was a bit ski wif there trying to find an excuse chief
 
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Yankeeger said:
Your spelling was a bit ski wif there trying to find an excuse chief
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My point and spelling looks fine to me.

Its "skew-whiff" btw. If you're going to be a smart arse, get things right yourself.

What's your thinking here anyway? That because we were managing the largest squad we've had in years in a tough run of games including 8 Euro qualifiers that we should deffo have played a youth player in that match despite the Stranraer game being on the horizon too?

Our new management team has been in place for a year and the youth set up organised properly for about 18 months. You think this is the end of it all and we should just chuck it because of that East Fife game?
 
Laudrup1 said:
My point and spelling looks fine to me.

Its "skew-whiff" btw. If you're going to be a smart arse, get things right yourself.

What's your thinking here anyway? That because we were managing the largest squad we've had in years in a tough run of games including 8 Euro qualifiers that we should deffo have played a youth player in that match despite the Stranraer game being on the horizon too?

Our new management team has been in place for a year and the youth set up organised properly for about 18 months. You think this is the end of it all and we should just chuck it because of that East Fife game?
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Chellenge Cup ?
 
We have access to all of the best young talent in Scotland bar none . However we mess it up one way or another . Either we let them go or we leave them sitting on a bench .
We do not treat our young players and families with any respect at all and use them as a commodity. This is still happening so don’t just blame Sinclair who I agree was poor . Mulholland was also in a very high position during Sinclair’s time so spare me the oh what a difference he has made in the last 2 years .
And see the we had no scouting at youth level rubbish . All the scouts are still there that have been there for a long number of years and believe it or not they do a very good job getting the talent to see all their work ruined by the academy.
 
FS it's pure mob mentality on here, someone says something that people don't agree with and every kunt needs to get in on the bashing. After the first 4 or 5 say it I think it should be left at that
 
Coops2016 said:
We have access to all of the best young talent in Scotland bar none . However we mess it up one way or another . Either we let them go or we leave them sitting on a bench .
We do not treat our young players and families with any respect at all and use them as a commodity. This is still happening so don’t just blame Sinclair who I agree was poor . Mulholland was also in a very high position during Sinclair’s time so spare me the oh what a difference he has made in the last 2 years .
And see the we had no scouting at youth level rubbish . All the scouts are still there that have been there for a long number of years and believe it or not they do a very good job getting the talent to see all their work ruined by the academy.
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So when did your son get released?
 
The Dude said:
So when did your son get released?
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Sorry to disappoint and and not feed your theory but I am giving an opinion based on what I have heard . I suppose it’s easy to ignore and just say ah they just aren’t good enough . That may well be the case but ask yourself this . How many players have we released / missed out on that have went on to make a very good career
 
Coops2016 said:
We have access to all of the best young talent in Scotland bar none . However we mess it up one way or another . Either we let them go or we leave them sitting on a bench .
We do not treat our young players and families with any respect at all and use them as a commodity. This is still happening so don’t just blame Sinclair who I agree was poor . Mulholland was also in a very high position during Sinclair’s time so spare me the oh what a difference he has made in the last 2 years .
And see the we had no scouting at youth level rubbish . All the scouts are still there that have been there for a long number of years and believe it or not they do a very good job getting the talent to see all their work ruined by the academy.
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As a friend of a family who have a son in the academy, I'm going to have to take issue with that.

It's simply untrue.
 
Coops2016 said:
Sorry to disappoint and and not feed your theory but I am giving an opinion based on what I have heard . I suppose it’s easy to ignore and just say ah they just aren’t good enough . That may well be the case but ask yourself this . How many players have we released / missed out on that have went on to make a very good career
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Rather than going on what I've heard, I'm going on what I've actually seen for myself.

Lots of players released by us go on to have very good careers however your question is a little bit wrong. While I appreciate lots of players have gone on to have very good careers, how many have gone on to better level after being released by us?

Almost all of the great white hopes have gone on to have decent careers but there are very few who have gone on to have careers that make you think we REALLY missed out. We're not talking Athletico Madrid releasing Raul as a kid here. We're often talking boys who, in the peak years of their career, are now playing for part-time or junior teams.

How many of the young players at the club that we 'missed out' on in the last 5-10 years would get a place in our starting XI tomorrow against Livingston?
 
Coops2016 said:
Sorry to disappoint and and not feed your theory but I am giving an opinion based on what I have heard . I suppose it’s easy to ignore and just say ah they just aren’t good enough . That may well be the case but ask yourself this . How many players have we released / missed out on that have went on to make a very good career
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No more than any other club in the World is the answer to that question. I'm not sure how it strengthens your argument at all.

How many players have not made the grade at Rangers youth level and gone on to prove us wrong? It's not fucking many.

Even the likes of Ross McCormack who has done well from football isn't someone I'd say we got wrong. He wasn't good enough to last in our team past the spell that he had in it.

I doubt you could name 10 players post Souness who've left us that we've got wrong.
 
One aspect is that if we have a top class kid like Billy Gilmour a bigger club will take him. However we should be doing better at the youth development. How about using the league cup as a tournament for introducing the younger players?
 
Our academy was essentially rebuilt from the ground up when Warburton was appointed, ignoring this does make it a dig imo. What does he expect?
 
Laudrup1 said:
No more than any other club in the World is the answer to that question. I'm not sure how it strengthens your argument at all.

How many players have not made the grade at Rangers youth level and gone on to prove us wrong? It's not fucking many.

Even the likes of Ross McCormack who has done well from football isn't someone I'd say we got wrong. He wasn't good enough to last in our team past the spell that he had in it.

I doubt you could name 10 players post Souness who've left us that we've got wrong.
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I suppose the whole question was about why are we not producing the players for the first team . I’m not saying what we are doing is wrong but clearly something isn’t working. Even Billy Gilmour at 16 I doubt would have been anywhere near the first team although clearly this is a guess .
 
instructor said:
One aspect is that if we have a top class kid like Billy Gilmour a bigger club will take him. However we should be doing better at the youth development. How about using the league cup as a tournament for introducing the younger players?
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"Using the League Cup " are you joking?
So we haven't won anything of that calibre for about 100 years and you're suggesting we simply write off the League Cup?
We are not in any position to treat one leg of the domestic treble with such contempt
 
Coops2016 said:
I suppose the whole question was about why are we not producing the players for the first team . I’m not saying what we are doing is wrong but clearly something isn’t working. Even Billy Gilmour at 16 I doubt would have been anywhere near the first team although clearly this is a guess .
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He was eligible for two (maybe three) senior games before he joined Chelsea - he was in the squad for one and not included for the other. The second was a Scottish cup semi-final against Celtic iirc.

SPFL rules meant he couldn't play in the league or league cup until he turned 16. I've said it elsewhere in the thread but, had he stayed he'd have been a first-team player the following season.
 
Absolutely right and Rangers are working hard to rectify the situation. The only hope for a good Scotland team is a good, home grown Rangers team. GSTQ.
 
Maweepaljoe said:
"Using the League Cup " are you joking?
So we haven't won anything of that calibre for about 100 years and you're suggesting we simply write off the League Cup?
We are not in any position to treat one leg of the domestic treble with such contempt
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And do you have a better idea for getting the youth involved.
Sometimes you need a bit of foresight.
 
Look at the Scotland under 19s and 21s teams dominated by Rangers Development players it's taking time but the youth set-up at Ibrox is starting to produce good young talent..
 
Coops2016 said:
I suppose the whole question was about why are we not producing the players for the first team . I’m not saying what we are doing is wrong but clearly something isn’t working. Even Billy Gilmour at 16 I doubt would have been anywhere near the first team although clearly this is a guess .
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SG wouldn’t have had him anywhere near first team especially with trying to stop the other side then size of the young fella would also have scuppered his chances
 
instructor said:
And do you have a better idea for getting the youth involved.
Sometimes you need a bit of foresight.
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If they're good enough they will be involved unless our manager is negligent in the extreme. But they have to show t hat theyre good enough before they start. Personally I would rather win the League Cup.
Like it or not, the unwashed have had a better record of developing top players from within than we have for decades. I can go all the way back to Dalglsh, Macari McGrain etc.
And no I don't have the answer.
 
instructor said:
One aspect is that if we have a top class kid like Billy Gilmour a bigger club will take him. However we should be doing better at the youth development. How about using the league cup as a tournament for introducing the younger players?
Click to expand...

Maybe at some other juncture but we need that first trophy win and the League Cup can give it to us sooner than any other.
 
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