Kerching without stadium expansion

Why are we the only support on the planet that come out with ‘no way, that can’t be done that’s impossible’ all the time about almost everything that’s proposed ?
 
All the talk of where to expand the seating capacity we should first look at the away support & how many seats are wasted accommodating the likes of a handful of Ross county
 
Why are we the only support on the planet that come out with ‘no way, that can’t be done that’s impossible’ all the time about almost everything that’s proposed ?
There is only one thing that is impossible in life and that is to stick your arse out of a first-floor window, run down the stairs, and throw stones at it.
The rest is down to bottle and ambition
 
See (or hear) SR's interview on RTV today. Bar 72& hospitality revamps on the way, plus revamp/rebuild of Edmiston House, lots of ideas to increase revenue. They seem to be on the case.
Should be a museum and a matchday bar you would imagine
 
We may have got another 10k fans in tops, with new stands etc.
We would like need to move out for a year or two and go to Hampden.
Could be 100 million to do it and more.
The easier way is increase the costs of season tickets/ hospitality etc.
You can only really do that if you are winning things and ultimately increase capacity as well in the same vain.
I agree but it would pay back over time
 
We would need extensive groundwork and probably buy land from companies behind the govan.

The foundation of the govan wont take any more weight. To build on top would require a cantilever support anchored behind the govan. We dont have the space or the money.
A cantilever support anchored behind the Govan?
Have a look at Anfield’s new main stand and the structural reports regarding it.
More than enough room for back stays/anchors at the rear of the Govan.
We’re only restricted by our own ambitions.
 
The thing is them have 60,000 thats 10,000 more Thats 10,000 more people involved in their club which spread to families and friends and the undecided . Thats 10,000 more speaking about going to the match, Thats 10,000 more that will bring family in the future to their games. Do people not see it people have had their seats at Ibrox in certain areas for years are stuck in a routine leave early we are denying future generations of going to the match We are denying tickets to local communities to build our support within the area of Ibrox. This isn't just about vanity or even season ticket holders ,this is about the future of Rangers .We should be building our support instead of sitting on out laurels and pretending everything is alright.Everything is not alright we need to continue to build our support within Glasgow by doing what every other club in the land does.Free tickets for local communities invite them into the club instead of alienating them by not giving the local communities the chance to complain but to invite them in . We are denying the floating fan the guy or lass in the street which might want a chance to go and watch Rangers We need 10,000 more people speaking about going to see The Rangers In these testing times we need to grow Rangers because we have stagnated and were starting to regress like the rest of Scotland is doing.

I agree with your sentiment, but the cost of expansion is huge these days. Liverpool spent £114m on their main stand to add 8,500 seats.

Without any significant expansion, the club should focus on maximising attendance at every match. Hopefully the promise of MyGers points for using Seatsub will increase its uptake. For games with less interest, such as the early rounds of the cups, free/cheap tickets for locals is a good idea. I do wonder how many people who live nearby actually support Rangers/go to games.
 
I agree with your sentiment, but the cost of expansion is huge these days. Liverpool spent £114m on their main stand to add 8,500 seats.

Without any significant expansion, the club should focus on maximising attendance at every match. Hopefully the promise of MyGers points for using Seatsub will increase its uptake. For games with less interest, such as the early rounds of the cups, free/cheap tickets for locals is a good idea. I do wonder how many people who live nearby actually support Rangers/go to games.
Long term they will make the money back

I don't think we can charge 80 a ticket
 
Long term they will make the money back

I don't think we can charge 80 a ticket

Yep, their ticket revenue went up £11m last season I believe.
We won't get a bank or investor to front up the cash for construction.
 
A cantilever support anchored behind the Govan?
Have a look at Anfield’s new main stand and the structural reports regarding it.
More than enough room for back stays/anchors at the rear of the Govan.
We’re only restricted by our own ambitions.
It's nothing to do with space at Anfield. This is about the foundations.
 
I'm too young to remember the building of the 3 stands. First I've ever heard of this, hard to believe it's never been considered if that's the case, particularly in the 90's.

I recall when the Govan Stand was built there was quite a bit in the media about the huge end to end beam that the roof sits on and gives unobstructed views of the pitch. At the time it was cutting edge compared to what else was in the UK and Europe for that matter. There was a lot of photographs in the papers showing the crane lift that was needed to put the steelwork into place.

The talk was that if the stadium was ever required to be expanded then the same beam could be removed, the supporting structure extended up, a new tier added and the supporting beam put back on.

Sounds relatively straightforward compared to expanding other stadiums, but still very expensive, especially these days when stadium costs are seemingly much higher than other construction projects. As has been said in this thread there is also ground bearing issues where the Govan Stand is sited, and any expansion would need a lot of civil engineering work and money spent in the ground to beef up the foundations.

Prior to the Main Stand being extended with the Club Deck, there was talk of extending the Govan Stand. However by the time the club decided to expand the stadium, offices at the back of the Govan Stand were up and bringing in revenue, any expansion would have required the Govan Stand to be closed for a season, and also putting the Club Deck on top of the Main Stand balanced out the height of the stadium on all four sides.

The likelihood of stadium expansion may seem remote just now to us, but I remember many being surprised when it was announced that the Club Deck was happening and then it progressed quite quickly.

The Club Deck was very well designed architecturally and was a real challenging piece of engineering at the time. If I recall correctly Celtics whole "bleachers' limited lifespan stadium redevelopment a few years later cost around the same as our Club Deck.
 
The thing is them have 60,000 thats 10,000 more Thats 10,000 more people involved in their club which spread to families and friends and the undecided . Thats 10,000 more speaking about going to the match, Thats 10,000 more that will bring family in the future to their games. Do people not see it people have had their seats at Ibrox in certain areas for years are stuck in a routine leave early we are denying future generations of going to the match We are denying tickets to local communities to build our support within the area of Ibrox. This isn't just about vanity or even season ticket holders ,this is about the future of Rangers .We should be building our support instead of sitting on out laurels and pretending everything is alright.Everything is not alright we need to continue to build our support within Glasgow by doing what every other club in the land does.Free tickets for local communities invite them into the club instead of alienating them by not giving the local communities the chance to complain but to invite them in . We are denying the floating fan the guy or lass in the street which might want a chance to go and watch Rangers We need 10,000 more people speaking about going to see The Rangers In these testing times we need to grow Rangers because we have stagnated and were starting to regress like the rest of Scotland is doing.
The only way to significantly increase capacity is to knock done the three new stands and rebuild.

Fantastic post my friend.
 
Would be better and cheaper to just knock down the Broomloan, Copland and Govan and then make it all connected.
No it wouldn’t.

That would cost tens of millions of pounds.

Our current capacity is fine as it is, and even at that we have empty seats in most league games.

If expansion was to happen, it would be the removal of the screens and a two tiered bowl round the Govan, Copland and Broomloan stands. That would probably add 2/3k max onto existing capacity.
 
Back in a previous life I was at uni studying Civil Engineering. I chose the work being done to fill the corners as a project.

The club were brilliant and very open and honest.

When the stadium was rebuilt, it was found to be very difficult ground, with the water table being so high and the type of ground it is built on. The lateral load is much larger that it was previously - meaning that the foundation needed to be deeper and with greater reinforcement than anywhere else in the stadium. The decision was made (to keep costs down) that the foundation should be built to the spec for the stands that were to be built - meaning that not much more load could be added.

It means the only option if more load was to be added would be to remove that load from the structure. That would be done with a cantilever system (as was done for the club deck), which effectively suspends the load of the stand along the length of the cantilever structure. However, there would be no way to anchor this as we did with the main stand for the reasons I outlined above.

It would mean that the anchors would have to be done (probably) by using the ground behind the stadium. It would need to be at an angle that sufficiently holds the weight of the structure, meaning it could possibly be some distance back - possibly where the business behind the Govan are.

If you look at something like the Reebok Stadium or the Jeonju World Cup Stadium - they are good examples - but the one for the Govan would be set further away from the stadium to provide the stability required.

The foundations for the Copland and Broomloan are much more stable, but again it is uncertain how much more load could be carried.

It is interesting to note (although horrible to look at) that their cantilever system is built in a way which should have provided the required stability. However, the stand that runs along the wall of the cemetery suffered from exactly the same problem as the Govan. Their solution, big bloody pillars. There is a reason its a laughing stock in stadium building world. A cantilever roof that doesn't work.


Pictures of the Reebok in Bolton & Jeonju in South Korea for those not familiar:

reebok-stadium-bolton-wanderers-kevin-fletcher.jpg


-Jeonju-copy.JPG


So in layman’s terms, to support another tier the foundations for the vertical columns /stair cases similar to the club deck would have to be substantial due to the crap soil conditions.

Do you remember the type of foundations on the Govan, Broomie & Copland stands? Piles? Raft? Doesn’t sound like some heavy duty underpinning of the existing foundations would be sufficient.

Also looking at the roofs on the stadia you reference, it seems to me they look a lot lighter than we have. Is there a reason our roofs look quite do beefed up?

0_Rangers-v-Marseille-Pre-Season-Friendly-Ibrox-Stadium.jpg


I remember seeing an old picture of a cross section of one of the new stands (but can’t remember if it was produced by the club or British Steel), maybe if someone has it, they can re-post?
 
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No it wouldn’t.

That would cost tens of millions of pounds.

Our current capacity is fine as it is, and even at that we have empty seats in most league games.

If expansion was to happen, it would be the removal of the screens and a two tiered bowl round the Govan, Copland and Broomloan stands. That would probably add 2/3k max onto existing capacity.
We would need to demolish parts of all three stands if you’re wanting a bowl shape. The costs for these things can quickly increase.
 
10000 more spaces for their big flags, we do plenty for the local community
I know we do plenty but we need to do more to counter act the propaganda from the nationalists and co . We should be in the schools giving out free tickets have space for them .Every club in Britain does it ewe are limited to how many . The Rangers charity trust give a limited amount
10000 more spaces for their big flags, we do plenty for the local community
What 52,000 season ticket holders that's 7,000 more than us that's 7,000 more contacts to say I have season ticket do you want to come to the match . I just don't get people with their heads in the sand . We just can't rest on our laurels this is why the cabal rules Scottish football.
 
Pictures of the Reebok in Bolton & Jeonju in South Korea for those not familiar:

reebok-stadium-bolton-wanderers-kevin-fletcher.jpg


-Jeonju-copy.JPG


So in layman’s terms, to support another tier the foundations for the vertical columns /stair cases similar to the club deck would have to be substantial due to the crap soil conditions.

Do you remember the type of foundations on the Govan, Broomie & Copland stands? Piles? Raft? Doesn’t sound like some heavy duty underpinning of the existing foundations would be sufficient.

Also looking at the roofs on the stadia you reference, it seems to me they look a lot lighter than we have. Is there a reason our roofs look quite do beefed up?

0_Rangers-v-Marseille-Pre-Season-Friendly-Ibrox-Stadium.jpg


I remember seeing an old picture of a cross section of one of the new stands (but can’t remember if it was produced by the club or British Steel), maybe if someone has it, they can re-post?
I honestly cannot remember the foundation construction type, all I remember are my conclusions from my report based on what I was told.

The idea of underpinning may be possible. But again, the soil type probably prohibits this and still would not provide the stability required. Again, it's a lengthy and costly process. The govan would be empty of people for a long time.

I'm not saying that it's impossible, but the type of money required to do this in today's environment would be English TV deal money. There are probably 4 or 5 companies in the world that would take this on - none of them come cheap.

Regards the roofs, it's simply to hide the steelwork as was the style then. I think there is some plant inside, but cant remember.

Ive seen those section diagrams too, done by British steel - not sure they show the founds though. Not something that was widely known back in the day.
 
I know we do plenty but we need to do more to counter act the propaganda from the nationalists and co . We should be in the schools giving out free tickets have space for them .Every club in Britain does it ewe are limited to how many . The Rangers charity trust give a limited amount

What 52,000 season ticket holders that's 7,000 more than us that's 7,000 more contacts to say I have season ticket do you want to come to the match . I just don't get people with their heads in the sand . We just can't rest on our laurels this is why the cabal rules Scottish football.
My head is in the real world, people that think we have the money to spend on a new stand are delusional.
We have limited tickets to give away because we have sold the maximum ST we are allowed to sell, it was reported as over 47000,
I would rather have our Iconic Stadium than that rust bucket with the scaffolding over in the east end
 
Safe standing will have the same capacity as seats. As safe standing gets converted to seats for Europe.
That’s not the reason for it.

Dortmund have terracing and get 15,000 extra for domestic games. They just put safe standing barriers up for European games with an allocated ticket.
 
Would love to see Ibrox with a larger capacity but it’s just not an option right now. Anyone who thinks there will be fans in football stadiums anytime soon is kidding themselves.

I just sat through a board meeting on Friday where we decided that our company could not afford to purchase addition office space to allow people to come back to works and have desk space confirm to social distance regulations. Therefore we have made the call that all staff who can, will work from home for the foreseeable future.

Same applies to football. If and when crowds are allowed back into stadiums, the restrictions will be huge. Maybe 1 in 3 seats populated and a lot of restrictions outside and within the stadium to ensure social distancing is complied with. Just think of the toilets at half time for example. That will need heavily controlled.

The focus on increasing revenue therefore has to come from the non-match day experience for the time being. So a museum, shop, selling land for flats, and more tours for smaller groups could actually keep us ticking over.

We also need to think smart on streaming and content once games do restart. How do we maximise people signing up to our in house streaming is going to be a big issue that needs to be addressed.
 
That’s not the reason for it.

Dortmund have terracing and get 15,000 extra for domestic games. They just put safe standing barriers up for European games with an allocated ticket.
Actually in UK it is that exact reason. Each seat is numbered and each ticket holder is required to be where the seat is allocated in the safe standing area. In turn of eurooean night the seats will be unlocked into seating position as per UEFA rules.
 
Actually in UK it is that exact reason. Each seat is numbered and each ticket holder is required to be where the seat is allocated in the safe standing area. In turn of eurooean night the seats will be unlocked into seating position as per UEFA rules.

With Dortmund the reason why they get extra in Germany is the rail seat rules apply that they can be a 2-1 ratio on where the designated seat/standing area in league matches but the bolts on the seats must come down on UEFA competition so that it creates an all seater stadia. Good video of it by evertonians on Toffee TV
 
Whilst I wouldn't say match day revenue is maxed out, most ideas to generate more revenue require such investment as to render them not cost effective
What needs to be done is to find ways to generate revenue for the 300+ days that are not match days. I'm not sure if any club had ever managed this but this is where thought needs to be applied. Ibrox needs to be turned into a destination people want to go to and spend money in.
Could we expand stadium tour schedule in terms of days and experience and revenue generation?
Is there scope to use the facilities for corporate events?
Could we generate any cash from the training centre?
 
It's nothing to do with space at Anfield. This is about the foundations.
Your original post was it required more space and land to be bought, I don’t believe that is the case.
The foundations would have to be underpinned, I agree.
The same operation as was undertaken when the Club Deck was constructed.
Just shy of 500 piles were installed with jack piling of the existing stand support columns.
Expensive yes but again if the business case stacks up there’s nothing civil engineering wise that can’t be done.
 
Its called ambition but hey ho nobody in Scotland is allowed to be ambitious anymore .
It's called recklessness and I know all about ambition and the pitfalls that come with it. But I'm sure if you email the Directors and give them your expert knowledge on this, then they might see the light
 
Remember the club were looking at opening the old train station years ago , one councillor , her name escapes me but she was Labour , as was the choice of the RC at the time, and she said we would need to pay for it ourselves. This was at a time when the mockits were getting whole streets for a pound , and not long after the taxpayer footing the bill for " welfare way" leading up to their embarrassing main stand.

It's been many a year since weve had any help from the council in that cesspit at George Sq.
 
Well this just describes the attitude of Scotland and its population be ambitious you are shot down everything is impossible, we are all manic depressives and disguise it by calling it being a realist . I really fear for the future of Rangers and Scotland there is no up and go there is no ambition.
 
Well this just describes the attitude of Scotland and its population be ambitious you are shot down everything is impossible, we are all manic depressives and disguise it by calling it being a realist . I really fear for the future of Rangers and Scotland there is no up and go there is no ambition.
If you are referring to me, I have been fortunate to have never suffered any form of depression, I think it is quite obvious that I have been driven by ambition since the day I left school.
I have seen the pitfalls that can befall you when you overstretch yourself in business and I have experienced the negativity towards people like myself when people think you are successful, they have no idea of the heartache and pressure that some people are under behind the public face.
I believe members of our Board are not just very successful in their own businesses but also clever enough not to expand at a rate that would take us all the way back to financial armageddon.
You seem to be very negative about the way you see Ranger's perceived lack of ambition.
Can you enlighten me on what you have done in life that others would see as ambitious?
Or are you one of these people that you described as ' manic depressives '
 
Ibrox is as big or bigger than Stamford Bridge, Anfield, Parc de Princes, Allianz Stadium(Juve) and the Johan Cruyff Arena.

We don't need a capacity increase to boost revenue. Ibrox has been massively behind those stadiums in other ways, their hospitality offering have been leagues ahead of ours, they have more things to do around the stadium, they've had functioning club shops, museums and fanzones.

We're on the right track now in terms of catching up
 
I think there are a lot of things we could and should be doing with what we already have in order to maximise revenue. The plans outlined by SR earlier in the week will go someway to realising that potential.
 
Ibrox is as big or bigger than Stamford Bridge, Anfield, Parc de Princes, Allianz Stadium(Juve) and the Johan Cruyff Arena.

We don't need a capacity increase to boost revenue. Ibrox has been massively behind those stadiums in other ways, their hospitality offering have been leagues ahead of ours, they have more things to do around the stadium, they've had functioning club shops, museums and fanzones.

We're on the right track now in terms of catching up
i would remove anfield from your list mate
 
i would remove anfield from your list mate
To be fair we’re only three thousand behind Anfield and this will be their first year of a higher attendance than us in a generation.
God only knows we could take some hints from them in how to maximise capacity.
Until the new stand was built it always amazed me how the ground held as much given the size of the stands.
 
To be fair we’re only three thousand behind Anfield and this will be their first year of a higher attendance than us in a generation.
God only knows we could take some hints from them in how to maximise capacity.
Until the new stand was built it always amazed me how the ground held as much given the size of the stands.
totally agree, they did have to knock down a whole street(kemlyn rd) to accommodate the building of the centenary stand,and around half a dozen streets have been demolished behind the main stand,freeing up the land that allowed for the large footprint the new main stand sits on
 
If I could change one thing about the stadium it wouldn’t be the screens it would be to be able to find a way of filling in the corners at the Main Stand. It would give the stadium that complete look.
Would probably involve knocking down the stairs we have at either side and rebuilding them right enough and incorporating them into the corners.
Probably would be the most expensive upgrade of all so will never happen in my lifetime.
 
Personally think we should just concentrate on creating the best in the business, within our current footprint.

In a truly ideal world, for me, every lower tier would be safe standing.

Then regular seating across the second tiers throughout the ground.

Club deck, I’d turn into a vast Bar 72 type arrangement. Bar area, TVs, proper day out stuff. Make it a grand price point.
 
Far more important for me is a revamp of the footprint. Start with rebuild of Edmiston House, everything washed and cleaned, new artwork inside stadium, etc. Make it best stadium it can be.
 
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