Last five years income / loss / balance?

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
Is there a breakdown of our finances that's been laid out in reasonably simple terms showing our last five years accounts?

Been having a discussion elsewhere about why we can't (or aren't rushing to) buy a player before we sell someone. Not selling Alfie (but buying Roofe, Hagi and Itten) helped us win 55 but then we didn't cover that spend with a player sale.

Patterson leaving (and the Gerrard money) probably covers that matter after the fact but then eats into the money that people perceive we should be spending this summer when, in reality, it's already been allocated.

I'd like to see a turnover / spend / loss laid out with basic numbers to show the direction we're heading in but need that extra player sale to really start turning over the squad.

Maybe one of the lurking Accountants could help out...
 

Valley Bluenose

RTV? Completed it mate!
Is there a breakdown of our finances that's been laid out in reasonably simple terms showing our last five years accounts?

Been having a discussion elsewhere about why we can't (or aren't rushing to) buy a player before we sell someone. Not selling Alfie (but buying Roofe, Hagi and Itten) helped us win 55 but then we didn't cover that spend with a player sale.

Patterson leaving (and the Gerrard money) probably covers that matter after the fact but then eats into the money that people perceive we should be spending this summer when, in reality, it's already been allocated.

I'd like to see a turnover / spend / loss laid out with basic numbers to show the direction we're heading in but need that extra player sale to really start turning over the squad.

Maybe one of the lurking Catholic Accountants could help out...
Can’t break it down the way you want but the obvious start point would be the Club’s Annual Reports. All of which can be found half way down this page on the official website. I’m sure you can figure it out from there.:)

 

Kubala

Well-Known Member
Another £80 million we owe and we're going bust again, have our name changed to New Sevco, actually no, found an entirely new club called New Sevco as we aren't the same club etc
Hilarious.

To echo the actual question, the way that we declare losses every year seems to be an accumulated process but I always thought any loans were going towards equity and therefore weren't actually debts.

Anyone with the ability to explain it would be appreciated here too.
 

RFC-GSTQ

Well-Known Member
Is there a breakdown of our finances that's been laid out in reasonably simple terms showing our last five years accounts?

Been having a discussion elsewhere about why we can't (or aren't rushing to) buy a player before we sell someone. Not selling Alfie (but buying Roofe, Hagi and Itten) helped us win 55 but then we didn't cover that spend with a player sale.

Patterson leaving (and the Gerrard money) probably covers that matter after the fact but then eats into the money that people perceive we should be spending this summer when, in reality, it's already been allocated.

I'd like to see a turnover / spend / loss laid out with basic numbers to show the direction we're heading in but need that extra player sale to really start turning over the squad.

Maybe one of the lurking Catholic Accountants could help out...

That's very strange - I've been having a discussion elsewhere about why we can't (or aren't rushing to) sell a player before we buy someone.
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
Can’t break it down the way you want but the obvious start point would be the Club’s Annual Reports. All of which can be found half way down this page on the official website. I’m sure you can figure it out from there.:)


Thanks! That's gonna take time and effort for my tiny brain. I was hoping someone would have done it for me...that's when I work best! :D
 

TheMarbleStaircase

Well-Known Member
There must be something somewhere that tells you as I was talking to my Kilmarnock supporting boss yesterday and he told me that the real price we got was £4million for Paterson as that’s what shows up on the balance sheet, the rest of the money will be add ons and selling on etc…

He’s a killie fan so he will know our finances better than anyone B-)
 

Cahoochie

Well-Known Member
There must be something somewhere that tells you as I was talking to my Kilmarnock supporting boss yesterday and he told me that the real price we got was £4million for Paterson as that’s what shows up on the balance sheet, the rest of the money will be add ons and selling on etc…

He’s a killie fan so he will know our finances better than anyone B-)
Better than almost anyone else….;)
 

Forfar_Bear

Well-Known Member
There must be something somewhere that tells you as I was talking to my Kilmarnock supporting boss yesterday and he told me that the real price we got was £4million for Paterson as that’s what shows up on the balance sheet, the rest of the money will be add ons and selling on etc…

He’s a killie fan so he will know our finances better than anyone B-)
We haven't had an annual report since he was sold, so (as you knew) file under bullsh!t.
 

stillAlwaysblue

Well-Known Member
I am able to split up balance sheets giving the value of shares and P/L etc but with Rangers at present we know we are running at a loss and better to wait until the next set of results to get the current trend.. Covid cost the club badly and wages increasing with transfers in did not help.
This year the run in Europe will be beneficial but although this brings in much needed cash there are also high expenses for this competition mainly in travel which for a football club is never cheap.
My view is we can hopefully break even and any players sales or off wages can go to buy new players plus some extra cash which can be made available.
Football clubs are very difficult to value with players having a value which until sold means very little.
If we can now break even and then continue to go far in the CL or at worst get into the CL only then can we look forward to better days.
My view comes from having financial qualifications and having Rangers as a previous client
and being able to pick up some info in hospitality but that about it these days.
but things do look a lot better.
 

Delboy Trotter

Well-Known Member
I am able to split up balance sheets giving the value of shares and P/L etc but with Rangers at present we know we are running at a loss and better to wait until the next set of results to get the current trend.. Covid cost the club badly and wages increasing with transfers in did not help.
This year the run in Europe will be beneficial but although this brings in much needed cash there are also high expenses for this competition mainly in travel which for a football club is never cheap.
My view is we can hopefully break even and any players sales or off wages can go to buy new players plus some extra cash which can be made available.
Football clubs are very difficult to value with players having a value which until sold means very little.
If we can now break even and then continue to go far in the CL or at worst get into the CL only then can we look forward to better days.
My view comes from having financial qualifications and having Rangers as a previous client
and being able to pick up some info in hospitality but that about it these days.
but things do look a lot better.
With all due respect, if we are only hopeful of breaking even after what will be a record breaking year of received income from player sales, commercial, Europa final run, then we’re in a hell of a lot of trouble because we won’t have that EL run income every season.

Only hoping to break even after all of the above goes completely against what Robertson stated at the AGM last year. He said we should be close to break even and that was without the EL final run income, Patterson fee, Itten fee, Bacuna fee, Wilson fee etc.
 

TheMarbleStaircase

Well-Known Member
We haven't had an annual report since he was sold, so (as you knew) file under bullsh!t.

I try and avoid all conversation about football with him but he always likes to mention our finances and how skint we are and need the money, seems to know all about our financial situation.
 

Talktalk

Well-Known Member
Is there a breakdown of our finances that's been laid out in reasonably simple terms showing our last five years accounts?

Been having a discussion elsewhere about why we can't (or aren't rushing to) buy a player before we sell someone. Not selling Alfie (but buying Roofe, Hagi and Itten) helped us win 55 but then we didn't cover that spend with a player sale.

Patterson leaving (and the Gerrard money) probably covers that matter after the fact but then eats into the money that people perceive we should be spending this summer when, in reality, it's already been allocated.

I'd like to see a turnover / spend / loss laid out with basic numbers to show the direction we're heading in but need that extra player sale to really start turning over the squad.

Maybe one of the lurking Accountants could help out...
The way I look at it is if DP and co start jumping ship and the club put out a begging bowl it’s time to worry, as neither is happening then I’m happy.
 

Southside_shug

Well-Known Member
Losses
20/21 -£24.153m
19/20 -£17.462m
18/19 -£11.277m
17/18 -£14.341m
16/17 -£6.663m
Revenues in that time

21 £47.7m
20 £59m
19 £51.5m
18 £31.5m
17 £28.4m

All information is available in the following link

 

Sandbear

Well-Known Member
Losses
20/21 -£24.153m
19/20 -£17.462m
18/19 -£11.277m
17/18 -£14.341m
16/17 -£6.663m
Wonder how much of that has been converted into equity?
Doesn’t make very good viewing although we were supposed to be going to break even this season even without the Euro run and Patterson sale, whether you can believe it or not.
 

Sandbear

Well-Known Member
Revenues in that time

21 £47.7m
20 £59m
19 £51.5m
18 £31.5m
17 £28.4m

All information is available in the following link

Basically we need £70 m to break even:eek:
I would say purely from a balance sheet point of view the squad needs culling too much flab.
 

JamesMc

Well-Known Member
Revenues in that time

21 £47.7m
20 £59m
19 £51.5m
18 £31.5m
17 £28.4m

All information is available in the following link

Our revenue this year will surley be pushing the 100 million with Europa , Patterson and Gerrard
 

RangersEasyOK!

Well-Known Member
Wonder how much of that has been converted into equity?
Doesn’t make very good viewing although we were supposed to be going to break even this season even without the Euro run and Patterson sale, whether you can believe it or not.
All of it bar £5.25M in the last accounts (7 year loan with 6% interest) and any directors loans provided this year as the identified funding gap.

There was a 400k gap forecasted for the coming year which would be covered now.
 

The People

Well-Known Member
easily going to be our record turnover this year

And hopefully our record profit

Does anyone know much that actually was ?
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
Wonder how much of that has been converted into equity?
Doesn’t make very good viewing although we were supposed to be going to break even this season even without the Euro run and Patterson sale, whether you can believe it or not.

That's the next question I was going to ask. It's not like the debt is the cummulative total of those figures. Transfer to shares by the investors has covered a lot of it, I'm sure.
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
The largest single component is the wage bill and that is heavily skewed by how well we do in Europe and Cup competitions - ie, players tend to be on huge bonuses for European progression.

As long as it's not Bain who has negotiated the bonus structure for the past year, I'm reasonably confident the run won't cost us money.
 

Shengus Malengus

Well-Known Member
There must be something somewhere that tells you as I was talking to my Kilmarnock supporting boss yesterday and he told me that the real price we got was £4million for Paterson as that’s what shows up on the balance sheet, the rest of the money will be add ons and selling on etc…

He’s a killie fan so he will know our finances better than anyone B-)
Your Killie supporting boss is still using the Fantasy Premier League figure that Timmy fell for hook, line and sinker.
 

RangersEasyOK!

Well-Known Member
Revenues in that time

21 £47.7m
20 £59m
19 £51.5m
18 £31.5m
17 £28.4m

All information is available in the following link

Those accumulated losses will be used to offset some of our tax burden over the coming years where we hopefully stay in profit.
 

TheMarbleStaircase

Well-Known Member
Your Killie supporting boss is still using the Fantasy Premier League figure that Timmy fell for hook, line and sinker.

I’m starting to think he must sit with his timmy supporting mates and discuss in depth about our finances. Every other football fan outside of supports us is an expert on our financial position.
 

daven37

Well-Known Member
Revenues in that time

21 £47.7m
20 £59m
19 £51.5m
18 £31.5m
17 £28.4m

All information is available in the following link

Losses
20/21 -£24.153m
19/20 -£17.462m
18/19 -£11.277m
17/18 -£14.341m
16/17 -£6.663m

Am I reading this right - we need to make 70-80m a season to break even?
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
Am I reading this right - we need to make 70-80m a season to break even?

Pretty much given the losses we've seen. Some parts will be more normalised going forward when the endless slew of courtcases are done.

It's not really surprising to me to see figures around that level though.

The board have been fairly clear for a while that in a 5 year period, we need CL or EL group stage football 3 out of 5 years and a couple of player sales in the other two years as a base line.

We're hugely fortunate that our sensational Euro levels since Gerrard game in accelerated our recovery a bit and let us retain pretty much all our players instead of having to continue to trade up before getting to an SPL winning level.

We're competing with a team who've had every advantage handed to them for a decade. We've done very well to get in line with them.

What we need is to hit the CL cash to help fund the next level of trading and put is in that easiser position of leading from the front with a bit of a buffer.

They've had that luck of knowing the CL money was landing in their lap or they've been able to sell an asset to cover it and, and this is the crucial part, still win the league next year regardless to repeat the cycle.

It's a real shame we couldn't get over the line in the league last season. It'd have flipped the situation on its head completely.
 
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With the Europa League run post Christmas, our cash position has greatly improved as well as the sale of Parerson in January this year , neither of these were predicted when last accounts presented to shareholders @ AGM
Our last accounts produced to shareholders last November ( covering period to 30th June 2021) told us we received £8.5m from Directors / Investors in July '21 & needed another £7.5m before end of Nov'21 . Checking Companies House , for changes to share capital only £5.85m of the £16m received has been turned into equity .If press reports are to be beleved re Paterson sale price a substantial amount of this fee would have been used to repay Directors / Loans of approx £10m . The Gerrard & his team compensation fees received would have been used to cover Agents Fees & signing on fees of players & start of season 21/22 .
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member

I think the question should be more to operate on a normal basis rather than particular break even costs.

We could sell everyone and play the youths and our break even would be far less.

If we've got a squad of this level, what is the yearly "operating costs" if that's the right phrase assuming there's a normality about the year going forward where we're not repaying directors loans or requiring external funding?

To answer Daven's quesiton, what do you think the figure is for turnover and related profit that stops the losses we've seen in the last five years?
 
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Southside_shug

Well-Known Member
Am I reading this right - we need to make 70-80m a season to break even?


Yes and no

Our wages are high , but in each of those years there have been legal; fees , exceptional items leading to write offs and losses...remember we were getting less than a penny in the pound for shirt sales with the Fat Bastard , and we were screwed by both Elite and Hummel

Our commercial deals are now through the roof and we allegedly have a normalised strip deal with Castore....
 

The People

Well-Known Member
I doubt it'll be our record profit. That's probably still going back to the 90s at a bit of a wild guess.
be interesting to see what our record profit actually was ,we really didn't post many profits even in the 90's
I reckon £7/8 million profit for this season ,just purely a guestimate on my part I might add.
 

Laudrup1

Well-Known Member
Yes and no

Our wages are high , but in each of those years there have been legal; fees , exceptional items leading to write offs and losses...remember we were getting less than a penny in the pound for shirt sales with the Fat Bastard , and we were screwed by both Elite and Hummel

Our commercial deals are now through the roof and we allegedly have a normalised strip deal with Castore....

That's a far better answer than Suck's "No" which provides no nuance to the situation.
 

Bluedell

Well-Known Member
be interesting to see what our record profit actually was ,we really didn't post many profits even in the 90's
I reckon £7/8 million profit for this season ,just purely a guestimate on my part I might add.
We posted a profit of £12.4m in 2005, primarily due to the NTL write-off of £15m.

We had a profit of £7.6m in 2008, mainly due to the sale of Alan Hutton.

Biggest loss was £35m in 2002!
 

iaatpies

Well-Known Member
The way I look at it is if DP and co start jumping ship and the club put out a begging bowl it’s time to worry, as neither is happening then I’m happy.

David Murray's tenure would suggest otherwise. He'd fucked us several years before enough fans woke up.
 

Maida Vale Bear

Well-Known Member
There must be something somewhere that tells you as I was talking to my Kilmarnock supporting boss yesterday and he told me that the real price we got was £4million for Paterson as that’s what shows up on the balance sheet, the rest of the money will be add ons and selling on etc…

He’s a killie fan so he will know our finances better than anyone B-)
Interesting, he's read a balance sheet that currently doesn't exist. That's impressive.
 
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