League Reconstruction Ideas

[Dempster]

I don’t think there’s enough appetite for a 16 team top tier, and I don’t think the current 42 club setup works either. I don’t wish for any low league teams to go out of business, but they need cut off from the pro game a bit.

idea of SPL1&2:
Two tiers of 12, each team plays each other twice - 22 games.
Split into 3 groups of 8, further 14 games each.
Top 8 - title and European places.
Middle 8 - top four remain/promoted to SPL1, bottom four drop to SPL2.
Bottom 8 - bottom two relegated to the national league.

National league: 18 teams playing each other twice - 34 games. First gains automatic promotion, 2-5 play off for promotion. Four relegated, two to Highland league and two to Lowland league.
Everything below this would be regionalised, starting with Highland/Lowland leagues of 18 teams each. I would add ‘B’ teams to the Highland/Lowland leagues to begin with, but I wouldn’t allow them into SPL2.

In terms of cups, the league cup should return to a knockout competition with final in March. Scrap replays in the Scottish Cup from last 32 onwards. If the challenge cup is to remain, it would be contested by teams outwith SPL1&2, but not Irish or Welsh clubs.

Edit: when the SPL splits into 8s, points in the middle tier go back to zero. In the other two tiers, points gained in the first 22 games would be halved and rounded up - they do this in some European leagues.
The current challenge cup needs refreshed anyway, it should start with groups of four, with ‘colt’ teams involved but also the colt teams separated in the group stage. Currently they go in at round 1 and can get knocked out immediately. Kind of defeats the purpose of their inclusion; put them in a group and guarantee them 3 games prior to the knockout round.

That could work

 

[Graemeh89]

There really has to be a solution where Less games are played. Teams finishing seasons end of May , players have internationals in June , then straight into qualifiers for Europe , there is hardly any rest period. Also the amount of games rangers ( and Celtic ) had to play through the winter was a joke.

There must be a better way with less games , would maybe help us a bit in Europe also.

 

[LOL 133]

I know the idea of League Re-construction has been beaten to death, but after having a look through how other European Leagues run their divisions I was wondering how people would perceive this type of reconstruction and what their ideas might be for it.

Proposal:

Three Divisions of 14 Teams.

1. Premier Division
2. Second Division
3. Third Division

Set-Up of the division:

Teams play each other twice. After round 26, each league splits into two groups:

Championship Group (6 teams)
Relegation Group (8 teams)

Championship Group:

Top 6 play each other at home and away. 36 game season overall.

18 Home Games and 18 Away games for each team in a season.

Relegation Group:

Bottom 8 Play each other once post split. Teams Play 33 Games overall.

Teams Ranked 7th-10th after 26 rounds will have 4 Home Games and 3 Away Games.

These teams will have 17 Home Games, 16 Away Games over the season

Teams in 11th-14th Place after 26 rounds will have 3 Home Games and 4 Away Games. Teams at the bottom of the table are not rewarded for poor performance in first 26 fixtures.

These teams will have 16 Home Games and 17 Away Games over the season.

Relegation:

For Premier Division and Second Division, 13th and 14th placed teams are relegated automatically. Replaced with the 1st and 2nd placed team from lower tier.

Only one team is potentially relegated from the lowest tier.

Playoff:

12th placed team in higher division plays 3rd placed team in lower division in two legged game. Winner goes to/stays in higher division.

The current Highland/Lowland promotion playoff structure is retained for entry into the lowest tier.

Changes to League Cup Group Stage:

Top 6 sides in all divisions from previous season qualify directly to League Cup round of 32.

Bottom 8 teams in each division are put into League Cup Group Stage.

Should the bottom eligible team be relegated from Division 3, the team promoted from the Highland/Lowland League will take their place in the Group Stage.

8 Groups of 3 teams.

No seeding in the Group Stages and No Seeding beyond the Group Stages.

Teams play home and away against teams in their group, two home games and two away.

Winners of group progress to round of 32. 4 best runners up in the groups also qualify to round of 32.

Home Games in the League Cup Group Stage must be included on a season book. Therefore ALL teams in ALL divisions are guaranteed at least 18 home games in a season book. (17 if two colt teams are added to the bottom division)

Changes to Scottish Cup:

None.

Changes to Scottish Challenge Cup:

None. Might have to have an invitational for another couple of Highland/Lowland sides or foreign sides to make up for the numbers.

Colts Teams:

Top 6 sides from the previous season are asked whether they would like to register a Colt side for the Lowest division in the next season.

2, 4 or 6 colt teams can be added to bottom division

If 3/6 choose to add colts, the two clubs with the highest finish the previous season will have their colts added to the lowest division

If 5/6 choose to add colts, the four clubs with the highest finish in the previous season will have their colts added to the lowest division

If colt teams are registered for the season:

The lowest division changes to being a simplistic one home fixture and one Away fixture against all sides in the division rather than a split after 26 games

Rules on Colt Teams:

Colts Teams are ineligible for entry into League Cup or Scottish Cup.

Colts Teams are Eligible for entry into Scottish Challenge Cup

Colts Teams are ineligible for promotion into Second Division.

Colts teams are ineligible for relegation from Third division

Bottom 8 full-time sides in a season in lowest tier are put into Group Stages of League Cup. Top six full-time sides in lowest division receive bye to next round.

Shuffle, shuffle, shuffle away, it wont solve the big problem of lack of competition. If you want to save Scottish football you've GOT to make it more competitive and the ONLY way to do this is by sharing the limited income evenly.

Time to face facts. Sport isnt worth watching without competition.

 

[Iain1872]

Think it's more daft when people can't comprehend that the 7th team garnish more points by playimg the bottom teams whereas the 6th team have played top 5.

I think people are perfectly capable of comprehending that that is how the team in 7th generally end up with more points with the team in 6th, it’s pretty obvious.

The point I think is being made though, is that it’s daft that we have a system that allows that to happen, and not only allows to happen, but pretty much guarantees will happen.

 

[PunkScott]

Us being kicked down the leagues shows Sky can survive without Old Firm games.

Sounds paranoid, but I reckon we would have had a bigger league in the top flight a few years back if it didn't mean giving us automatic promotion without having to win the Championship.

 

[grangers]

I don’t think there’s enough appetite for a 16 team top tier, and I don’t think the current 42 club setup works either. I don’t wish for any low league teams to go out of business, but they need cut off from the pro game a bit.

idea of SPL1&2:
Two tiers of 12, each team plays each other twice - 22 games.
Split into 3 groups of 8, further 14 games each.
Top 8 - title and European places.
Middle 8 - top four remain/promoted to SPL1, bottom four drop to SPL2.
Bottom 8 - bottom two relegated to the national league.

National league: 18 teams playing each other twice - 34 games. First gains automatic promotion, 2-5 play off for promotion. Four relegated, two to Highland league and two to Lowland league.
Everything below this would be regionalised, starting with Highland/Lowland leagues of 18 teams each. I would add ‘B’ teams to the Highland/Lowland leagues to begin with, but I wouldn’t allow them into SPL2.

In terms of cups, the league cup should return to a knockout competition with final in March. Scrap replays in the Scottish Cup from last 32 onwards. If the challenge cup is to remain, it would be contested by teams outwith SPL1&2, but not Irish or Welsh clubs.

Edit: when the SPL splits into 8s, points in the middle tier go back to zero. In the other two tiers, points gained in the first 22 games would be halved and rounded up - they do this in some European leagues.
The current challenge cup needs refreshed anyway, it should start with groups of four, with ‘colt’ teams involved but also the colt teams separated in the group stage. Currently they go in at round 1 and can get knocked out immediately. Kind of defeats the purpose of their inclusion; put them in a group and guarantee them 3 games prior to the knockout round.

This is what I said above, except I would reset the points in the middle league to 7.6.5.4.3.2.1 and 0 according to league standings at the split, and I would have the highest finisher from SPL2 crowned champion of SPL2 and promoted no matter where they finished in the middle league, replacing the lowest spl1 team.
The middle league would be a good watch I think.

edit: The SPL1 last place and SPL2 champs would be decided by adding the points garnered before the split and after the split together.

 

[Macdonsj]

18 teams top league
play home and away once each team
3 down
2 up and a play off from the new 2nd tier

removes the idiotic split
stops playing teams 20 times a season
money flows to lower teams easier
with more teams in the lower range of the top league can lead to more open league there

as for play-off
remove the weighted advantage for the 2nd shittest top league team & incentivise the 2nd tier

 

[Tpol_rfc]

I think people are perfectly capable of comprehending that that is how the team in 7th generally end up with more points with the team in 6th, it’s pretty obvious.

The point I think is being made though, is that it’s daft that we have a system that allows that to happen, and not only allows to happen, but pretty much guarantees will happen.

It's only daft if yoh can't comprehend why it happens. Finish 7th after 33 games that's as high as you'll go. That's the rules.

 

[WilldeBoer]

A top 20 and play each other home and away. Same number of games (38). We've been to nearly every single ground in the country and it's fine.

Relegate three and promote three from the next division of 22. They can have a play off for the third spot just like the English leagues.

 

[carlosapicella]

18 team premiership add B teams and regionalise the lower leagues.

Teams need to look beyond making money from the old firm. After all they all said that they didn’t need us and managed without playing us for 4 years.

My ideal set up also mate,regionolising the bottom 2divisions is important,said before Elgin going to Annan and stranraer going to peterhead is a logistical and expensive nightmare not only for clubs but supporters,been shouted down by people on hear saying their is not enough quality teams in the championship to make a decent 18team premier ship,my answer to that was apart from alloa and QofS this season all the other teams have been in the premiership before,bt and sky wouldn't allow it as it means only 2old firm games a season my answer to that was bring back the Glasgow charity cup or Glasgow cup to pl ay for it would still sell out!

 

[Iain1872]

It's only daft if yoh can't comprehend why it happens. Finish 7th after 33 games that's as high as you'll go. That's the rules.

Well I can easily comprehend why it happens, like I said, it’s not hard to understand. But I still think it’s daft to look at a league table and see a team below another team despite having more points. Doesn’t happen anywhere else in world football.

I get your point that finishing 7th after 33 games means you will go no higher, but why not actually split the league standings at this point and have top half 1-6 and bottom half 1-6 to avoid having a 12 team league standing, where 7th (and potentially 8th) have more points than 6th (and potentially 5th)

 

[davmcc]

I think I was in a very small minority of rangers fans that actually thought the 2 top leagues of 12 that split into 3 leagues of 8 proposed in 2013 was a good idea.

 

[Papac5]

The current set up is boring, shite and set up for the benefit of 4 Old Firm games a season that Sky want and the smaller clubs to take in more revenue.

We’re now seeing more clubs taking away from our away allocation so the argument that they need us to fill their grounds twice a years is watered down.

Why not just keep it simple? Two leagues of 16 with a proper winter shutdown like they do in Germany?

What we’ve got know is pish, playing the same times 4 times a year, possibly 6 if we draw them in the cup.

The idiots that we have in charge though seem to think calling our leagues the same names as they are in England makes it better or more appealing. It’s still the same shite, with the same shite teams and the same shite formula. How Regan and Doncaster have lasted this long is incredible to me.

 

[club175]

The split is good when there is a proper title race as it means that the last 4/5 games are typically in the best stadiums against the best teams where there is a bigger chance of dropped points.

The idea of a 14 team league (that splits after 2 rounds ) seems the best plan as it takes away the fixture anomalies

 

[iaatpies]

League reconstruction is nothing more than rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.

We need fundamental change within Scottish football. We also need the Scottish public to embrace the game and to actually give a %^*& about their local clubs. Too many teams in Scotland are struggling because their local community couldn't care less about them.

It's tragic.

 

[grangers]

I think I was in a very small minority of rangers fans that actually thought the 2 top leagues of 12 that split into 3 leagues of 8 proposed in 2013 was a good idea.

Given the lack of good teams in Scotland this option to me is by far the best, personally I think we can forget not having a split, a straight 1 home 1 away league (of any number of teams) would produce approximately 8 decent matchups a season as at a push theres only about 5 decent teams.

This option gives us at least 16 and gives equal home v away matchups.
And the split occurs with 14 games remaining meaning a lot harder run in than a no split league.