Leon King - 15yo in Scotland U17s

Scarlett said:
The very one, yes.
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I was in davies year at secondary school + played against barry when I was about 11-12 I think when I played with clydesdale - was only boys fitbaw but barry was a class apart even then from everyone, couldnae get the ball off him.
 
elfideldo said:
I don't like commenting on younger youth players but Leon is no longer a secret. He is up there with the best 15 year olds to emerge at Rangers - Ferguson, Fletcher, Miller, Gilmour.

First saw him playing up a year as an eleven year old against a very good Club NI side. It is rare the top EPL sides show any interest in Scottish kids Gilmour was a rare exception unusually we have another so soon in Leon.

Big decision when he is 16, will have the pick of EPL clubs if he wants that, hopefully will see his immediate future at Rangers.
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Who was Fletcher?
 
elfideldo said:
I don't like commenting on younger youth players but Leon is no longer a secret. He is up there with the best 15 year olds to emerge at Rangers - Ferguson, Fletcher, Miller, Gilmour.

First saw him playing up a year as an eleven year old against a very good Club NI side. It is rare the top EPL sides show any interest in Scottish kids Gilmour was a rare exception unusually we have another so soon in Leon.

Big decision when he is 16, will have the pick of EPL clubs if he wants that, hopefully will see his immediate future at Rangers.
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Any idea when the kid turns 16 Elfideldo?
 
elfideldo said:
I don't like commenting on younger youth players but Leon is no longer a secret. He is up there with the best 15 year olds to emerge at Rangers - Ferguson, Fletcher, Miller, Gilmour.

First saw him playing up a year as an eleven year old against a very good Club NI side. It is rare the top EPL sides show any interest in Scottish kids Gilmour was a rare exception unusually we have another so soon in Leon.

Big decision when he is 16, will have the pick of EPL clubs if he wants that, hopefully will see his immediate future at Rangers.
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Can only hope its no coincidence that theres another good prospect so soon after Gilmour and that its a result of the work being put in at the academy.
 
Superrangers said:
Cue leeches like Chelsea and man city.
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Not any different from what Rangers do, just depends where you are on the food chain.

Rangers paid Development fees for three current youth internationals, Josh McPake (Hibs), Harris O'Connor (Kilmarnock), Murray Miller (Motherwell). Pretty sure these clubs would rather have kept the players.

Rangers were also unsuccessful in tempting players from Kilmarnock, Hibs and Dundee United last summer.
 
Just wondering why does it matter when he’s 16. He could sign a pro contract at 15 if he wanted (not saying we should that’s up to the club) but that lot across the city have that karamoko dembele on a contract and he’s only 15
 
ThomasMRFC said:
Just wondering why does it matter when he’s 16. He could sign a pro contract at 15 if he wanted (not saying we should that’s up to the club) but that lot across the city have that karamoko dembele on a contract and he’s only 15
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Has signed the contract but it doesn't take effect until 16 and has completed 4 years at secondary school. It is like a pre contract and the better boys are offered them soon after their 15th birthday. That can really have an effect on their mindset regards education.
Mind you, some of these boys hardly go to school anyway, which is a big failing in the system.
 
Dembele was 16 in February, born in 2003. Rangers will be speaking to their 2003's and agreeing contracts for those going full-time this summer.
 
happydays said:
Has signed the contract but it doesn't take effect until 16 and has completed 4 years at secondary school. It is like a pre contract and the better boys are offered them soon after their 15th birthday. That can really have an effect on their mindset regards education.
Mind you, some of these boys hardly go to school anyway, which is a big failing in the system.
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So if this boy is as good as some think we really should be starting contract talks now and get him signed up. It’s the only way to stop Gilmour situations otherwise like gilmour big English clubs will offer them 10k a week and a house in London at 16 years old and sell them a pipe dream
 
ThomasMRFC said:
So if this boy is as good as some think we really should be starting contract talks now and get him signed up. It’s the only way to stop Gilmour situations otherwise like gilmour big English clubs will offer them 10k a week and a house in London at 16 years old and sell them a pipe dream
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See the post before yours. @elfideldo knows what’s going on with the youths.
 
Not 100% sure but I would think we can only officially come to any agreement close to a player's 16th birthday. Celtic announced Dembele's agreement two months before his 16th birthday.

I'm pretty sure informal discussions will have taken place, as they did with Billy Gilmour. With him being a June birthday it pretty much came down to happening in the close season.

I know the rules are different for Northern Irish players as they do not have a pathway into full time football through their clubs. Therefore Rangers have come to an agreement with a couple of younger players in Northern Ireland. who will sign when they reach 16.
 
I should really explain how pro youth contracts work.

From U11's through to U14's players can only sign for a club for one year.

At the end of that year the club can offer another year, if the player declines and goes to another club, the losing club is entitled to compensation, although it is not always followed through.

If a players signs at U15's the club then has a further two year option, this is pretty contentious as a player not being paid cannot go anywhere else for three years if a club digs its heels in. So a player cannot leave until after U17's without the clubs agreement.

It wouldn't stand up in court and a case was heading for the courts a few years ago, but the club who saw the implications backed down and released the player. Although this was after he had a year out of football.
 
elfideldo said:
Not 100% sure but I would think we can only officially come to any agreement close to a player's 16th birthday. Celtic announced Dembele's agreement two months before his 16th birthday.

I'm pretty sure informal discussions will have taken place, as they did with Billy Gilmour. With him being a June birthday it pretty much came down to happening in the close season.

I know the rules are different for Northern Irish players as they do not have a pathway into full time football through their clubs. Therefore Rangers have come to an agreement with a couple of younger players in Northern Ireland. who will sign when they reach 16.
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I've known contracts offered 10 months before the 16th birthday to boys in Scotland and have no doubt that Leon has already been offered terms by Rangers for when he is 16.

The situation with Billy caused Rangers to prioritise the contract situation with a lot of the favoured boys. Nathan YC coming in recently will have upped the ante and no doubt signing on fees and wages will be on the increase.
 
One of differences between billy gilmour and Leon is that Leon is a massive rangers fan where as billy wasn’t. I know nowadays heads may be turned with silly money from down south but if a player sees a pathway to our first team I would like to think they would stay.

It’s showing the young players there is a pathway that’s the main thing and unfortunately for the last few seasons I don’t think we’ve promoted enough young players , saying that we haven’t had the most talented bunch the last few years either but hopefully the next batch are better and given a chance
 
Billy is a Rangers fan. I think as big a draw is Steven Gerrard being at the club and the positivity currently running through the Academy.
The Al Kass and the successes through the age groups in the last year have really helped things. Players like NYC coming in have also created a buzz.
 
This is the time of year the players reaching 16 sign their first pro contracts. So you can expect updates and tweets over the next couple of months confirming the 2003's signing.

A couple have recently left the club suggesting they were not being offered contracts, there is now only eleven 2003's and most if not all will sign in the next few months.
 
elfideldo said:
Not 100% sure but I would think we can only officially come to any agreement close to a player's 16th birthday. Celtic announced Dembele's agreement two months before his 16th birthday.

I'm pretty sure informal discussions will have taken place, as they did with Billy Gilmour. With him being a June birthday it pretty much came down to happening in the close season.

I know the rules are different for Northern Irish players as they do not have a pathway into full time football through their clubs. Therefore Rangers have come to an agreement with a couple of younger players in Northern Ireland. who will sign when they reach 16.
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Celtic were paying Dembele and his family good money long before he reached 16. House, car the lot.

Here's hoping for an Islam Feruz type fall out.
 
If Football Manager is anything to go by, you can agree a sort of pre contract with 15 year olds, they will sign a pro deal on their birthday.
 
elfideldo said:
I should really explain how pro youth contracts work.

From U11's through to U14's players can only sign for a club for one year.

At the end of that year the club can offer another year, if the player declines and goes to another club, the losing club is entitled to compensation, although it is not always followed through.

If a players signs at U15's the club then has a further two year option, this is pretty contentious as a player not being paid cannot go anywhere else for three years if a club digs its heels in. So a player cannot leave until after U17's without the clubs agreement.

It wouldn't stand up in court and a case was heading for the courts a few years ago, but the club who saw the implications backed down and released the player. Although this was after he had a year out of football.
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Does that work for cross-border stuff as well @elfideldo? I'm thinking back to some of the debate around when Billy Gilmour left. One line taken by many was that we couldn't stop him leaving, of his own free will, on his sixteenth birthday. From the sound of things we could have played hardball and 'forced' him to stay under the two year option thing. I'm not suggesting we should have - I can see many problems with that - just wondering if we could have.
 
Valley Bluenose said:
Does that work for cross-border stuff as well @elfideldo? I'm thinking back to some of the debate around when Billy Gilmour left. One line taken by many was that we couldn't stop him leaving, of his own free will, on his sixteenth birthday. From the sound of things we could have played hardball and 'forced' him to stay under the two year option thing. I'm not suggesting we should have - I can see many problems with that - just wondering if we could have.
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All parties wanted the deal completed amicably, his peers at Rangers were signing their first pro contract. He decided he wanted to join Chelsea rather than sign a pro contract wit Rangers so the clubs came to an agreement.

Where as they could have tried to stall things, it was pretty pointless and not in the clubs interests.
 
elfideldo said:
All parties wanted the deal completed amicably, his peers at Rangers were signing their first pro contract. He decided he wanted to join Chelsea rather than sign a pro contract wit Rangers so the clubs came to an agreement.

Where as they could have tried to stall things, it was pretty pointless and not in the clubs interests.
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Oh I understand how it worked out and why. I wouldn't want our club to be holding kid's under duress as per old Jim Mclean LOL.

Maybe I've misunderstood but your initial explanation seemed to suggest that when they sign a pro-contract at 15 it is for 1 year - but with a two year option period that the club can enforce. That would mean someone signing the pro contract just before their 16th birthday could be tied to the club until they are 19. Have I misunderstood you completely mate?

Wouldn't be the first time I've got it wrong - not by a long way.

EDIT: Just seen you were talking about the option being applicable to those signing at u15s rather than u16s. Same still applies though, does it then tie them to the club - potentially - until just before their 18th birthday? Namely a 1 year contract from just before 15th birthday to just before 16th birthday - followed by the two year option to just before 18th birthday?
 
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Valley Bluenose said:
Oh I understand how it worked out and why. I wouldn't want our club to be holding kid's under duress as per old Jim Mclean LOL.

Maybe I've misunderstood but your initial explanation seemed to suggest that when they sign a pro-contract at 15 it is for 1 year - but with a two year option period that the club can enforce. That would mean someone signing the pro contract just before their 16th birthday could be tied to the club until they are 19. Have I misunderstood you completely mate?

Wouldn't be the first time I've got it wrong - not by a long way.

EDIT: Just seen you were talking about the option being applicable to those signing at u15s rather than u16s. Same still applies though, does it then tie them to the club - potentially - until just before their 18th birthday? Namely a 1 year contract from just before 15th birthday to just before 16th birthday - followed by the two year option to just before 18th birthday?
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Correct. And the clubs hold all the aces. Although it is more the 15 to 17 age range, the way the season worked it would be at least six months before their 16th birthday. Slightly different now that the younger age groups work on a callander year season.

At Rangers, it will be different at smaller clubs, the players expect to get offered a youth contract at the end of the second year of that three year period. A couple of 2003's left recently, I presume Rangers decided not to offer them terms. One has signed a contract with Dundee United, the other is on trial at another club.

Clubs don't have to offer pro contracts at 16 and could keep their registration for another year unless another club agrees to pay a development fee.

Back in the Sinky days at 16 Robbie Crawford and Murray Wallace were offered 1 year schoolboy contracts rather than pro contracts. It suited Robbie as he was academic and was keen to continue his education. Murray Wallace declined and went to Falkirk for which Rangers received a development fee.

Generally clubs are keen to keep the development fee compensation rules in place so usually come to some agreement rather than retain a player that doesn't want to be there.

Eventually these rules will be challenged in court, at the moment there is freedom of contract for 25 year olds but not 15 years olds who haven't been paid a penny.
 
elfideldo said:
Correct. And the clubs hold all the aces. Although it is more the 15 to 17 age range, the way the season worked it would be at least six months before their 16th birthday. Slightly different now that the younger age groups work on a callander year season.

At Rangers, it will be different at smaller clubs, the players expect to get offered a youth contract at the end of the second year of that three year period. A couple of 2003's left recently, I presume Rangers decided not to offer them terms. One has signed a contract with Dundee United, the other is on trial at another club.

Clubs don't have to offer pro contracts at 16 and could keep their registration for another year unless another club agrees to pay a development fee.

Back in the Sinky days at 16 Robbie Crawford and Murray Wallace were offered 1 year schoolboy contracts rather than pro contracts. It suited Robbie as he was academic and was keen to continue his education. Murray Wallace declined and went to Falkirk for which Rangers received a development fee.

Generally clubs are keen to keep the development fee compensation rules in place so usually come to some agreement rather than retain a player that doesn't want to be there.

Eventually these rules will be challenged in court, at the moment there is freedom of contract for 25 year olds but not 15 years olds who haven't been paid a penny.
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Does that mean Dundee United paid a development fee then
 
elfideldo said:
I don't like commenting on younger youth players but Leon is no longer a secret. He is up there with the best 15 year olds to emerge at Rangers - Ferguson, Fletcher, Miller, Gilmour.

First saw him playing up a year as an eleven year old against a very good Club NI side. It is rare the top EPL sides show any interest in Scottish kids Gilmour was a rare exception unusually we have another so soon in Leon.

Big decision when he is 16, will have the pick of EPL clubs if he wants that, hopefully will see his immediate future at Rangers.
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Can I agree that Leon is a good player but for me to put him in with Gilmour calibre is an absolute no no ,the lad is big boy maturation has happened early for him therefore ahead of the game ,I question how good he will be in couple of years when maturation has taken to all boys of his age ,I know for fact after watching him alot he lacks pace would it also not be right to say there are boys of much the same game in Kyle mclelland Harris O'Connor Danny finlayson granted they're older but same mould and very much same player,Gilmour has the touch of class that we don't see alot at youth level and feel after watching youth football for years to put these boys in same category is far fetched for me . .just my opinion ,think we should settle down and watch the lad progress to his best .
 
Spoke to a couple of people who watch youth football and they expect young Leon and that Morrison to eventually be a CB partnership for the full international side.
 
Saltire said:
Let's hope we don't end up with another Gilmour situation on our hands with these young lads. Great to see us finally producing but teams like Chelsea have the pulling power to snap the boys up whilst we receive a pittance for them.
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Young Gilmore would have been better staying with us even if it had been a two-year loan to gain 1st team experience, mind with the thugs playing up here maybe the lads parents didn't want to take a chance on injuries happening
 
Spart7 said:
Excellent report as always mate, thank you. Do you know if the young boy from ayr United is rated? Was strange to see ayr united in amongst ourselves, them, man city, Watford, Norwich etc. Just curious, lol. Must have something about him.
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Only seen him a couple of times and he was okay, don't think either us or celtic have made any serious attempt to sign him through the age groups. A few people have said, perhaps unkindly, he has been pushed forward because he is a player from a smaller club at an SFA performance school. He must be doing something right as he has been in the International squads for a while.
 
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