Lesser Teams Have Worked Us Out - How Do We Approach Saturday?

Drumchapel-Bear

Drumchapel-Bear

Well-Known Member
Since the Livingston game, I've been banging on about the fact that we really struggle to break teams down when they are happy to camp in and let us have the ball. We are quite one dimensional in that regard and easy to defend against, just double up on Tav down his side and that nullifies 90% of the quality service we deliver into the box for our attackers. Kent on the other side, is capable of moments of magic but his final product is really poor at times. Think he only has a couple of assists and couple of goals this season in what, circa 20 appearances?

On to Sat against St Mirren. We know right now, Gerrard and his staff know right now exactly how they are going to set up against us so we need to conjure up something new to combat these tactics we are facing in the SPFL. The reason we are so good in Europe, is these teams open up and attack us, and we are deadly on the transition when we win the ball back against teams that are a little more open against us. The pace we break at is lethal at times, but pace, energy etc is no use if there is no space to utilise it.

So how do we approach Sat? Surely we don't go with the exact same tactics again and just hope it works?

I'm a fan of 3-5-2 but it would be a risk trying it out without Barisic, although I do think Kent is capable of filling in at wingback given his attributes.

I think we need to go 2 up top, just so it's more difficult for defences to mark our strikers. If Morelos has 2 men on him all the time, we can't expect him to give us a bit of magic every single week. It's a tough shift for him up there.

Could we go 4-4-2? Walter always used to do it against the lesser sides in the league and keep 451/433 for the harder league games.

Could line up something like:

McGregor
Tav
Goldson
Worrall
Halliday
Arfield
Jack
Ejaria
Kent
Morelos
Laffery

Play Arfield on the right hand side but ask him to play narrow, like Walter used to do with Steven Davis. Leave the right hand side for Tav to attack the space and get deliveries into the box for Morelos/Lafferty.

Thoughts?
 
The speed that other teams close Rangers down in is a concern; coaching theory will have you space out and pass your way out of it but our players aren’t quick enough to the danger and we find ourselves penned into areas of the pitch.

Middleton being given a bit of space to run into and using that to spread play would help but it’s never just one thing.
By the same token, the central midfielders taking the game forward rather than out to the wings would give us at least some variety.
 
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I’d love to think he could change it from 4-3-3 because we have shown for years that we are so easy to frustrate with this formation. I don’t think he will though and I imagine we will see a few like for like personel changes.

I don’t think we have enough quality out wide to effectively play a game that relies on the service of the wide men. Bring the game inside could be an idea but then I’m not paid to work these things out - I could be making them worse.
 
Sutton_Blows_goats said:
We have to change it up mate, have to go at teams centrally on occasion and stop focusing so much out wide.

If we can do that maybe we can get them narrow where we can then use the likes of Tav and Barisic
Click to expand...

Definitely.

Just think if you have Lafferty and Morelos through the middle and you fire balls into them, Lafferty will win his fair share of headers, and ones he or Morelos don't win, the defenders marking them won't get a free header at it and it can allow us to pick up second balls far higher up the park to get at teams.
 
At the start of the season we were so much more compact all over the pitch. Last night the gaps between defense and midfield and then Alfredo was unacceptable. Either Arfield or Kent need to play the number 10 role to pick up any scraps in and around the box.

4-4-1-1

McGregor
Tav
Katic
Goldson
Halliday
Grezda
Rossiter
Jack
Kent
Arfield
Morelos
 
We will score about 5 on Saturday. Lee Hodson cant play and Ryan Flynn is suspended over and above injuries.
 
No chance will we go 2 up top. On the few occasions that we've tried to play Morelos and Lafferty together it hasn't worked. Morelos wants support from the wings and behind him, not beside him.
 
Bob Belcher said:
No chance will we go 2 up top. On the few occasions that we've tried to play Morelos and Lafferty together it hasn't worked. Morelos wants support from the wings and behind him, not beside him.
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We've only played with 2 up top in 1 game this season away to Motherwell and Lafferty scored a double.

Every other game has been 433/451.

And tbh, I really don't care what Morelos might want. We need to start picking up wins in the league.
 
As er indoors is always quick to say about me, we lack penetration. Lovely football and nice passing. But at times we're lacking in the final third, we need to be more ruthless.
 
We move the ball quicker, don't retain a static shape and play with the level of intensity and tempo that saw us beat the likes of Hearts, Rapid Vienna and take a well deserved point in Villarreal.
 
Sutton_Blows_goats said:
We have to change it up mate, have to go at teams centrally on occasion and stop focusing so much out wide.

If we can do that maybe we can get them narrow where we can then use the likes of Tav and Barisic
Click to expand...

Agree. The focus on going wide allows teams to double up out there and leave space in the middle. But we have no one to exploit it. We need more goals from support players and someone who can shoot from range would be a godsend. We need an Albertz.
 
CaptainCourageous said:
McGregor
Tavernier Goldson Katić LB???
Rossiter Jack
Grezda Arfield Kent
Morelos
​
The three behind Morelos all capable of interchanging.
Click to expand...

To be honest, that is just a version of what we are playing at the moment in terms of shape.

I agree that we need to change the shape, to give the opposition something to think about whether that be 4-4-2 or 3-5-2. It may also freshen us up.

There are a few problems with 4-4-2 though:
(1) Getting outnumbered in midfield
(2) Lack of striking options

I think this would be helped by Arfield playing narrow on one of the sides & playing either Kent (or Grezda depending on fitness) as the second striker. If Kent is picked then it leaves a hole on the left & Middleton isn't ready. In any case, this would provide a better link to attack from midfield plus they can drop into midfield to prevent us being outnumbered.

I think that leaves Lafferty to be a decent option off the bench
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
We've only played with 2 up top in 1 game this season away to Motherwell and Lafferty scored a double.

Every other game has been 433/451.

And tbh, I really don't care what Morelos might want. We need to start picking up wins in the league.
Click to expand...

Motherwell away has been forgotten because of the result but Morelos and Lafferty looked like they had the makings of a cracking partnership that day, we could have scored 5 or 6.

They were poor against Celtic but they got no support whatsoever that day, and the team was clearly knackered after Russia.

Like the team in the op I would give that a try.
 
Jack is a waste of space v teams that park the bus.

Decent enough player. Seldom looks or passes forward and wont help break down teams like last night. Imo of course
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Since the Livingston game, I've been banging on about the fact that we really struggle to break teams down when they are happy to camp in and let us have the ball. We are quite one dimensional in that regard and easy to defend against, just double up on Tav down his side and that nullifies 90% of the quality service we deliver into the box for our attackers. Kent on the other side, is capable of moments of magic but his final product is really poor at times. Think he only has a couple of assists and couple of goals this season in what, circa 20 appearances?

On to Sat against St Mirren. We know right now, Gerrard and his staff know right now exactly how they are going to set up against us so we need to conjure up something new to combat these tactics we are facing in the SPFL. The reason we are so good in Europe, is these teams open up and attack us, and we are deadly on the transition when we win the ball back against teams that are a little more open against us. The pace we break at is lethal at times, but pace, energy etc is no use if there is no space to utilise it.

So how do we approach Sat? Surely we don't go with the exact same tactics again and just hope it works?

I'm a fan of 3-5-2 but it would be a risk trying it out without Barisic, although I do think Kent is capable of filling in at wingback given his attributes.

I think we need to go 2 up top, just so it's more difficult for defences to mark our strikers. If Morelos has 2 men on him all the time, we can't expect him to give us a bit of magic every single week. It's a tough shift for him up there.

Could we go 4-4-2? Walter always used to do it against the lesser sides in the league and keep 451/433 for the harder league games.

Could line up something like:

McGregor
Tav
Goldson
Worrall
Halliday
Arfield
Jack
Ejaria
Kent
Morelos
Laffery

Play Arfield on the right hand side but ask him to play narrow, like Walter used to do with Steven Davis. Leave the right hand side for Tav to attack the space and get deliveries into the box for Morelos/Lafferty.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
They haven't sussed us as such, nobody will go toe to toe with us they know the outcome.
Every team now will park the bus home and away. We NEED to suss how the fuk were going to break the Berlin Wall down!
 
Teams can read us like a book when we attack. It's so easy. Always down the wings. Candies runs like f**k, does well gets the ball into the box to no one, defender clears it for the counter. We need to start going through he middle and playing smarter football. Making smarter decisions in the final 3rd. For example artfield last night. Got the ball in there box but had his back to the goal with a Killie player behind him, Middleton standing 4 foot away from him screaming for the pass. Could of easily dropped it off and the young lad could of smashed it. But artfield decided to try something completely different and the defender just said thank you... Decision making needs to be better in final 3rd. Smarter football. When it's not working try something else.
 
I'd go Grezda, Kent and Middleton in behind Alfie with Jack holding and Arfield next to him with license to get forward.

Run at them, commit them and paull them out their shape.

Gerrard's team selection last night after the comments before the game left me scratching my head. A bland unimaginative starting 11.

St Mirren have lost 6 in a row and are on 4 points but I am honestly not confident at winning this game.
 
When we don't score goals from midfield we can't have a 19 goal (think that's what he scored last season) striker sitting on the bench

In Europe and certain away games I totally agree with Morelos on his own but games like Saturday we need to change it up imo
 
I'd go 3-5-2, and play more through the middle. We've become so reliant on the wide areas, that's it's a piece of piss to defend against.

3 centre mids, one of which is an attacking player (pick from Grezda, Arfield, Ejaria, Kent) behind the front two of Morelos + Lafferty or Grezda. I wouldn't be adverse to playing another midfielder at left mid, much in the way Walter used to play Davis out on the right. It's arguably unbalance, but gives you loads of bodies in the middle of the park, and we simply need to look to exploit the central areas more.

I'd go:

McGregor

Worrall Goldson Katic

Tav Rossiter Ejaria Arfield

Grezda

Morelos Lafferty
 
Formations will change nothing in my opinion. This is a game we need to start as if it's the last game of football we will ever play.
Everything needs to be based on tempo & attack.
Scraping another say 1-0 victory whilst it would be a welcome 3.points won't change our problems.
We need to start believing in ourselves again & who better to play than one of the poorest teams in the league.
I don't want to be dropping points wondering what might have been anymore.
Let's be ultra positive in everything we do & take the game to them in a high tempo 1 touch attacking manner - we lose a goal so what if we play in the manner we know we can we will score more
 
@David Edgar was talking on the post match match pod last night SG can't fall in to the trap of being married to this one system and I tend to agree.
When teams sit back it nullifies our pressing system, we've also got a similar issue to last season where we're very reliant on our fullbacks. This is an issue for a couple of reasons, if Flanagan plays LB then you can forgot him overlapping or putting anything meaningful in the box, Kent or whoever plays on the left will have to do it himself. Also teams know we do this, so they double up on our FBs (over the last few games Tav especially since Flanagan isn't an issue), they let us cross but it's from positions where the cross has to be perfect and we'd need a striker who is really good in the air (which Morelos is not, as much as I love him). Will this improve when we get Barisic back? Possibly, but I'd expect doubling up on him as well.
All signs point to us needing creativity in the middle and I'd agree 100%. Bringing Davis in in January could help but honestly I'd rather MA uses his scouts to source someone else.
I also think we need another striker, I do like Lafferty but he's back up to Morelos, I'd like to sign someone who can play up top with him, when Alfie and Lafferty have played together it's not been convincing (albeit it's not happened that often and a lot of the times Laff was played out wide).
However January is a ways away, we run the risk of being out of sight come then unless we sort it out with the players we have right now. It's looking like a change in system is a must now since teams have
"figured us out". It's over to SG and the coaching team to figure out how to do that.
 
St Mirren have scored 2 goals in 7 games under their new manager and 5 in 11 matches in the league all season.

If we keep doing what we've been doing and ensure the delivery is better then we'll get lots of chances.
 
THEGOVANFRONT said:
Formations will change nothing in my opinion. This is a game we need to start as if it's the last game of football we will ever play.
Everything needs to be based on tempo & attack.
Scraping another say 1-0 victory whilst it would be a welcome 3.points won't change our problems.
We need to start believing in ourselves again & who better to play than one of the poorest teams in the league.
I don't want to be dropping points wondering what might have been anymore.
Let's be ultra positive in everything we do & take the game to them in a high tempo 1 touch attacking manner - we lose a goal so what if we play in the manner we know we can we will score more
Click to expand...

GF - I agree we need to move the ball much faster, everything of late has been played in front of the opposition we need to get behind the fullbacks, but support from midfield needs to push further up.
We are a different team when we are playing at a fast pace, otherwise we can be too pedestrian and predictable. I would play Katic to give us an advantage at set plays as we get a lot of corners and free-kicks. He wont change the 4-3-3 but will ask players to play it better.
 
Robbie Wilson said:
They haven't sussed us as such, nobody will go toe to toe with us they know the outcome.
Every team now will park the bus home and away. We NEED to suss how the fuk were going to break the Berlin Wall down!
Click to expand...

We need someone that can hit the target with regularity from 20-30 yards.

If we had that, then teams wouldnt be able to sit as deep and would have to come out to close down which creates gaps.
 
steve1873 said:
We need someone that can hit the target with regularity from 20-30 yards.

If we had that, then teams wouldnt be able to sit as deep and would have to come out to close down which creates gaps.
Click to expand...
Mate we need 2 of them as in quality attbacking midfielders who can open up defences and let one rip from 25 yards.
 
spirit_of_93 said:
Motherwell away has been forgotten because of the result but Morelos and Lafferty looked like they had the makings of a cracking partnership that day, we could have scored 5 or 6.

They were poor against Celtic but they got no support whatsoever that day, and the team was clearly knackered after Russia.

Like the team in the op I would give that a try.
Click to expand...

The first half was as good as we have played all season. Lafferty and Morelos a handful through the middle, Jack bossing the middle of the park and Barisic and Tav providing cracking width and great deliveries into the box. It also allows us to get Katic back into the team, we have three very good centre halves at the club.

At The Piggery as well Kyle played left wing, he's hopeless there. He needs to be through the middle or not at all.
 
What do you mean lesser teams, anybody above us in the league means we are the lesser team.
This 55 shit makes me cringe, why not just say win the league.
When winning 9 in a row , i dont remember anyone say, “ well thats us “ 47 now.
All the twat golfers that say in the hole ,is similar to 55.
 
Press, press, press and when we win the ball make runs off it. Our players were waiting on the ball last night instead of meeting it which you should be doing to make one-twos or passing it to a teammate then making a run into space.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
The first half was as good as we have played all season. Lafferty and Morelos a handful through the middle, Jack bossing the middle of the park and Barisic and Tav providing cracking width and great deliveries into the box. It also allows us to get Katic back into the team, we have three very good centre halves at the club.

At The Piggery as well Kyle played left wing, he's hopeless there. He needs to be through the middle or not at all.
Click to expand...

We should have been at least 4 2 up at half time as I recall it. I remember thinking at half time this is a proper Rangers team, we’ll demolish them second half. Then we failed to score after half time while being dominant and decided to sit back and invite them into us for the last 20 minutes and eventually paid the price.

You are right it wasn’t really 442 at the paedodome, I don’t think we can read much into that one.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Since the Livingston game, I've been banging on about the fact that we really struggle to break teams down when they are happy to camp in and let us have the ball. We are quite one dimensional in that regard and easy to defend against, just double up on Tav down his side and that nullifies 90% of the quality service we deliver into the box for our attackers. Kent on the other side, is capable of moments of magic but his final product is really poor at times. Think he only has a couple of assists and couple of goals this season in what, circa 20 appearances?

On to Sat against St Mirren. We know right now, Gerrard and his staff know right now exactly how they are going to set up against us so we need to conjure up something new to combat these tactics we are facing in the SPFL. The reason we are so good in Europe, is these teams open up and attack us, and we are deadly on the transition when we win the ball back against teams that are a little more open against us. The pace we break at is lethal at times, but pace, energy etc is no use if there is no space to utilise it.

So how do we approach Sat? Surely we don't go with the exact same tactics again and just hope it works?

I'm a fan of 3-5-2 but it would be a risk trying it out without Barisic, although I do think Kent is capable of filling in at wingback given his attributes.

I think we need to go 2 up top, just so it's more difficult for defences to mark our strikers. If Morelos has 2 men on him all the time, we can't expect him to give us a bit of magic every single week. It's a tough shift for him up there.

Could we go 4-4-2? Walter always used to do it against the lesser sides in the league and keep 451/433 for the harder league games.

Could line up something like:

McGregor
Tav
Goldson
Worrall
Halliday
Arfield
Jack
Ejaria
Kent
Morelos
Laffery

Play Arfield on the right hand side but ask him to play narrow, like Walter used to do with Steven Davis. Leave the right hand side for Tav to attack the space and get deliveries into the box for Morelos/Lafferty.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Halliday has proven he has not got the quality to play for us. I don't understand why many are pushing for him to be put back into the side. It's the age old debate of players getting better when not actually playing.

I would still prefer us to play a back 3 but we don't have Centre backs for that imo. So apart from Halliday your team is pretty much my pick also.
 
shortie_0809 said:
4-4-2 simple back to basics
Click to expand...
It may work v some teams.

Id rather we adapted accordingly.

We aren't good enough to play the same way every week and let others worry about us. We've made easy for opponents by being predictable.


Our last two managers did similar though not comparing Gerrard to mr pitch geography and mr dugs and caravans.
 
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Bring Back Square Posts said:
Halliday has proven he has not got the quality to play for us. I don't understand why many are pushing for him to be put back into the side. It's the age old debate of players getting better when not actually playing.

I would still prefer us to play a back 3 but we don't have Centre backs for that imo. So apart from Halliday your team is pretty much my pick also.
Click to expand...

I have him in just for the fact it's a natural left footer and he's better than Flanno on the ball. St Mirren will just sit in so Flanagan is no use in games like this.
 
Paisleyprod said:
It may work v some teams.

Id rather we adapted accordingly.

We aren't good enough to play the same way every week and let others worry about us. We've made easy for opponentd by bring predictable
Click to expand...

Gerrard said this would be the way he goes when he got the job. Said he'd adapt tactics depending on the opposition etc.

It seems he panicked after the Motherwell game were we drew 2-2 and he switched to 352. Every other game has been the same tactics and shape.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Gerrard said this would be the way he goes when he got the job. Said he'd adapt tactics depending on the opposition etc.

It seems he panicked after the Motherwell game were we drew 2-2 and he switched to 352. Every other game has been the same tactics and shape.
Click to expand...

Indeed, everyone saying after that game that’s what happens when you change a defence that had been very solid up to that point.

In hindsight, the positives in an attacking sense are worth revisiting considering chances created that day compared to chances created in our other away games this season.
 
Part of the frustration is that Gerrard hinted at a horses for courses approach rather than another do plan A better thing, yet we’re struggling to break these teams down in part because there really isn’t much of a plan B.

I’d hoped we would mix it up more against these sort of teams, but it hasn’t really happened on our travels and I think that’s partly because we don’t really have the players to play both styles.

Unless guys like Coulibaly and Arfield can really up their game and dominate the midfield with drive and purpose I could see us struggle again.
 
Drumchapel-Bear said:
Since the Livingston game, I've been banging on about the fact that we really struggle to break teams down when they are happy to camp in and let us have the ball. We are quite one dimensional in that regard and easy to defend against, just double up on Tav down his side and that nullifies 90% of the quality service we deliver into the box for our attackers. Kent on the other side, is capable of moments of magic but his final product is really poor at times. Think he only has a couple of assists and couple of goals this season in what, circa 20 appearances?

On to Sat against St Mirren. We know right now, Gerrard and his staff know right now exactly how they are going to set up against us so we need to conjure up something new to combat these tactics we are facing in the SPFL. The reason we are so good in Europe, is these teams open up and attack us, and we are deadly on the transition when we win the ball back against teams that are a little more open against us. The pace we break at is lethal at times, but pace, energy etc is no use if there is no space to utilise it.

So how do we approach Sat? Surely we don't go with the exact same tactics again and just hope it works?

I'm a fan of 3-5-2 but it would be a risk trying it out without Barisic, although I do think Kent is capable of filling in at wingback given his attributes.

I think we need to go 2 up top, just so it's more difficult for defences to mark our strikers. If Morelos has 2 men on him all the time, we can't expect him to give us a bit of magic every single week. It's a tough shift for him up there.

Could we go 4-4-2? Walter always used to do it against the lesser sides in the league and keep 451/433 for the harder league games.

Could line up something like:

McGregor
Tav
Goldson
Worrall
Halliday
Arfield
Jack
Ejaria
Kent
Morelos
Laffery

Play Arfield on the right hand side but ask him to play narrow, like Walter used to do with Steven Davis. Leave the right hand side for Tav to attack the space and get deliveries into the box for Morelos/Lafferty.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

First thing restore Goldson and Katic defensive pair infront of Greegsy!
 
Laudrup11Cooper said:
First thing restore Goldson and Katic defensive pair infront of Greegsy!
Click to expand...

I honestly think our defence is fine. We are dominating these games our issue is not turning our domination into more goals.

Worrall has had a couple of shaky moments during games but in general, he's probably been our best centre half for weeks now, if we are looking at collective performances overall.

Defence isn't the problem imo it's becoming more of a threat higher up the park.

When you dominate games as well and don't score or only have a 1-0 lead, the longer that goes on, the more pressure it puts on your defence because no matter who you are playing they will get a chance at some point and have their own wee spell of success within a match.
 
For me at home, it should always be 4-4-2, steam roller teams in the first 25mins and it's game over.

Away from home then tweek the formation depending on the standard we are playing against, 4-3-3 or 3-5-2. The 2nd option would be if we are chasing a game as we are likely to lose goals. For some reason our wing backs forget that they are to also defend when playing in a 3-5-2 formation.
 
Paisleyprod said:
It may work v some teams.

Id rather we adapted accordingly.

We aren't good enough to play the same way every week and let others worry about us. We've made easy for opponentd by being predictable
Click to expand...
4-4-2 when we have lower teams and 4-5-1 when we have the hard teams???? 4-3-3- aint working now so needs changed
 
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