Lionel Messi

[dt17]

You lost me at “ luck “ to win a tournament that’s only played every four years , not only that but to win it three times.

Will never be beaten.

Of course it's luck...are you denying that in cup football a lot of luck is involved?

It's a pointless debate. It basically comes down to misty eyed nostalgia for some folk.

Seriously, have a look at that.

 

[dt17]

Messi must have scored over 100 goals by dribbling by 2/3/4 players and putting it away.

Doesn't run at defenders...

 

[Liviger1984]

loads of folk going absolutely tonto, sky getting bombarded with people citing this:


A shot on target is defined as any goal attempt that:

• Goes into the net regardless of intent.
• Is a clear attempt to score that would have gone into the net but for being saved by the goalkeeper or is stopped by a player who is the last-man with the goalkeeper having no chance of preventing the goal (last line block).

I had the 2 shots on target bet as well

 

[BrooklynBlue]

He plays like he has the weight of the world on his shoulders with Argentina which is why he’s always failed. He knows he’s good but he also knows Maradona was a different level.

I’m not sure it’s about comparing his talent vs Maradona.

But the pressure on him is immense from the Argentine public. All of their players suffer from it - even more of the focus & expectation is on Messi.

 

[Tequila]

I’m only 40 (almost) - old man says Diego best ever, followed by Brasil Ron then messi.

He’s seen all 3, so can’t argue.

In my lifetime it’s hard to choose between other ronaldo and Lionel.

In modern day football where physicality is all-important messi pips it. The skill he has is incredible.

 

[Johansen]

Not even in my top 3. Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, then either Ronaldo or Messi.

Maradona, Messi,Best,Pele,Di Stefano, Ronaldo (Brazil)

 

[Bluebeard]

Nobody is saying it will be matched, but that can't and shouldn't be what decides the greatest ever football player.

Multiple Brazilians won it twice, by your logic they are all better than Messi too?

I honestly don't know which of them was better as the generations are so different. The professionalism, the fitness, the pitches, the equipment, the rules around physical play, etc etc. I just know both deserve to be in the discussion as both were the greatest of their time.

Don’t get me wrong Messi deserves to be top 10, he was a fantastic player back in his 20s. Only a fool would disagree , he was great to watch with a dominant Barcelona side packed with talent helping him develop.

Pele and Maradona still stand alone with Cruyff, Di stefano and brazils Ronaldo just behind them and then argue out the next half dozen to make up the top ten.

More interestingly is who is going to break into that top 10 of todays generation? Perhaps mbappe if he keeps improving. It’s important the kids of today have their own icons just as we did back in the day.

 

[RangersLad1983]

Not even in the top 3 South American players for me.

Maradona
Pele
Ronaldo

Listen mate im on my son's page here I'm 76 I have seen them all and with the greatest of respect you are talking mince and that's if you have actually seen them all at their prime.

 

[julian candy]

Doesn't run at defenders...

The first goal on that. Haha. The GOAT.

 

[Barry Slimfit]

Pele won 3 world cups

Maradona won 1 World Cup

Messi won’t win a World Cup and neither will Ronaldo

Levels.

Stephan Guivarch won a World Cup.

I’d rather have Messi or Ronaldo tho.

 

[Hillheadbear]

I’m not sure it’s about comparing his talent vs Maradona.

But the pressure on him is immense from the Argentine public. All of their players suffer from it - even more of the focus & expectation is on Messi.

When I was in Buenos Aires in 2014, our guide took us to the Boca and showed us the statue of Maradona at the stadium. He made a comment that Lionel Messi could only hope to emulate Maradona. So I do think, at least at an Argentine level, he has always been trying to live up to that Maradona comparison.

 

[dt17]

Don’t get me wrong Messi deserves to be top 10, he was a fantastic player back in his 20s. Only a fool would disagree , he was great to watch with a dominant Barcelona side packed with talent helping him develop.

Pele and Maradona still stand alone with Cruyff, Di stefano and brazils Ronaldo just behind them and then argue out the next half dozen to make up the top ten.

More interestingly is who is going to break into that top 10 of todays generation? Perhaps mbappe if he keeps improving. It’s important the kids of today have their own icons just as we did back in the day.

You're trolling now.

 

[muttley]

Don’t get me wrong Messi deserves to be top 10, he was a fantastic player back in his 20s. Only a fool would disagree , he was great to watch with a dominant Barcelona side packed with talent helping him develop.

Pele and Maradona still stand alone with Cruyff, Di stefano and brazils Ronaldo just behind them and then argue out the next half dozen to make up the top ten.

More interestingly is who is going to break into that top 10 of todays generation? Perhaps mbappe if he keeps improving. It’s important the kids of today have their own icons just as we did back in the day.

The Messi pyjama-wearers will be raging that their superhero doesn't even make your top 5.

 

[SecondBestIsNothing]

Pele won 3 world cups

Maradona won 1 World Cup

Messi won’t win a World Cup and neither will Ronaldo

Levels.

Messi scored 91 goals in a calendar year, which include La Liga & the CL & not ones he scored in Escape To Victory, the US or dreamt up in his bedroom.

Levels

 

[Bluebeard]

Of course it's luck...are you denying that in cup football a lot of luck is involved?

It's a pointless debate. It basically comes down to misty eyed nostalgia for some folk.

Seriously, have a look at that.

Luck to win three world cups, a tournament that is only played every four years.

Haha ffs

 

[Jim Prideaux]

Messi scored 91 goals in a calendar year, which include La Liga & the CL & not ones he scored in Escape To Victory, the US or dreamt up in his bedroom.

Levels

Superb!

 

[dt17]

Luck to win three world cups, a tournament that is only played every four years.

Haha ffs

I didn't say he luckily won 3 World Cups, I said luck plays a huge part in cup football. Surely that's not even debatable?

 

[Blu_ultra]

785 career goals.

Overrated.

I always wonder what guys like this think about players like Kirk Broadfoot. I mean, how many goals and records would he need to break before he thought - ‘aye that Messi is actually worth the praise he gets’.

 

[julian candy]

When I was in Buenos Aires in 2014, our guide took us to the Boca and showed us the statue of Maradona at the stadium. He made a comment that Lionel Messi could only hope to emulate Maradona. So I do think, at least at an Argentine level, he has always been trying to live up to that Maradona comparison.

Messi will never be loved the way Maradona is, regardless of what he does on the park. A lot of Argentines feel he sees himself as Catalan. Maradona will always be God to them.

 

[Drop the Shoulder]

Its a generational thing. Football today is almost a non-contact sport played on bowling green surfaces. Messi wouldn't have survived the challenges allowed decades ago.

Could flip this one it's head and say that Pele, Cruyff, Best, Maradona etc would struggle with the tactical, physical and fitness side of the game today, never mind doing it from their teenage years through to their mid-late thirties as Messi and Ronaldo have.

You're absolutely right in saying that it's a generation thing. My dad has Maradona as the best of time, whereas my grandpa has Pele. I'd go for Messi. I'm 33.

Reminds me of someone in here who was in their 20s saying that Lev Yashin was the best goalkeeper of all time a year or two ago.

 

[Bluebeard]

Messi scored 91 goals in a calendar year, which include La Liga & the CL & not ones he scored in Escape To Victory, the US or dreamt up in his bedroom.

Levels

That’s good but it’s a shame for him he will never lift that World Cup above his head even the once despite numerous disastrous attempts. A lot of it is mentality and character when it comes to the crunch. Separates the very good from the greats. Enjoyed watching him as part of that incredible Barcelona side back in the day but time moves on too quickly for all of us.

PS I’ve got Argentina in the sweep so if he wins it this year I’ll donate half my £160 winnings to erskine

 

[Drop the Shoulder]

Again, no. Stop making stuff up.

"Levels"

 

[CoplandRoad]

One of the best ever.
Anyone know who has best stats between him and Ronaldo?
They are both outstanding and been great to watch them.

 

[Baloo72]

Greatest of his generation without a doubt. And in the conversation with Pele and Maradona for the greatest ever. Simply beautiful to watch him.

Genuinely not a chance

Appreciate it's just an opinion

 

[SecondBestIsNothing]

I’m guessing Stéphane Guivarc'h was better than the likes of Laudrup & Gazza since WC wins are the key metric in measuring a player?

 

[Johansen]

Listen mate im on my son's page here I'm 76 I have seen them all and with the greatest of respect you are talking mince and that's if you have actually seen them all at their prime.

I've seen them also Maradona imo has no one above him but imo our very own George Best runs everyone very close

 

[dt17]

That’s good but it’s a shame for him he will never lift that World Cup above his head even the once despite numerous disastrous attempts. A lot of it is mentality and character when it comes to the crunch. Separates the very good from the greats. Enjoyed watching him as part of that incredible Barcelona side back in the day but time moves on too quickly for all of us.

Yep, definitely trolling.

FWIW Messi has more goals in cup finals than any other player in history.

 

[Jim Prideaux]

One of the best ever.
Anyone know who has best stats between him and Ronaldo?
They are both outstanding and been great to watch them.

Messi, I’m 99% sure.

 

[shug1971]

Not even in my top 3. Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, then either Ronaldo or Messi.

Ok nice one. Maradona possibly

 

[SecondBestIsNothing]

That’s good but it’s a shame for him he will never lift that World Cup above his head even the once despite numerous disastrous attempts. A lot of it is mentality and character when it comes to the crunch. Separates the very good from the greats. Enjoyed watching him as part of that incredible Barcelona side back in the day but time moves on too quickly for all of us.

His mentality was there to win the CL, something Maradona never did (obviously the EC then). Does his mentality not get questioned for that?

 

[Jwalker]

Messi will never be loved the way Maradona is, regardless of what he does on the park. A lot of Argentines feel he sees himself as Catalan. Maradona will always be God to them.

God is dead. Maradona will never die.

 

[Bluebeard]

His mentality was there to win the CL, something Maradona never did (obviously the EC then). Does his mentality not get questioned for that?

They were a dominant side that Barca nobody can question that. Superb.

 

[julian candy]

Neither Maradona nor the OG Ronaldo won the European Cup/CL which is incredible when you think about it.

 

[DC_Bear]

Is @Bluebeard the oracle and voice of football rolled into one ?

He's all over this thread telling us who is 'correct' and who's not, in what are personal opinions. It's quite amusing.

FWIW, and imho, I'd rate Messi as the greatest I've ever seen, an unbelievable player in an age where the standards of fitness and speed are on a higher level than previous generations.
I think you'll find that most football people, managers and coaches at the top of the game, rate Messi as the GOAT. CR7 is a great player too, but only the 2nd best Ronaldo for me, and Maradona, Pele + Ronaldinho all reached another level, to be included in the discussion.
My Real Madrid supporting mate rates Zidane as the best to ever play for them.

I'll await Bluebeard telling me that my opinion is 'wrong'

 

[Dado's Bandage]

I don’t know why people get wound up about this. Nobody can define who the GOAT is as it’s purely subjective.

Also no point in saying things like he’d never have won Serie A with Napoli as nobody can ever know. Just enjoy that we’ve lived through a generation that has had 2 absolute geniuses in it, another who was struck down by injury but was still sensational then reserves like Zidane and Iniesta.

 

[dt17]

One of the best ever.
Anyone know who has best stats between him and Ronaldo?
They are both outstanding and been great to watch them.

Messi vs Ronaldo - All Time Career Goals and Stats

Compare Messi vs Ronaldo all time career stats, including all time goals, assists, free kicks, hat-tricks and scoring ratios!

www.messivsronaldo.app

Ronaldo has 31 more goals, played 143 more games.

Worth noting Messi is basically a midfielder nowadays and has been for a few years.

 

[shug1971]

Pele won 3 world cups

Maradona won 1 World Cup

Messi won’t win a World Cup and neither will Ronaldo

Levels.

The World Cup isn’t the pinnacle of football these days. Nowhere near. Can’t even be arsed carrying on

 

[instructor]

A great goal by Messi. Mexico were a disgrace.
Pele, Maradona and Messi, a cut above the rest.

 

[BrooklynBlue]

Messi will never be loved the way Maradona is, regardless of what he does on the park. A lot of Argentines feel he sees himself as Catalan. Maradona will always be God to them.

Yes on Maradona. But I don’t think many view Messi as a Catalan.

Their personalities are so different, which plays partly on how they are viewed. Maradona was never shy on offering opinions on all manner of subjects - and the era and the country’s politics also played its role.

 

[muttley]

Could flip this one it's head and say that Pele, Cruyff, Best, Maradona etc would struggle with the tactical, physical and fitness side of the game today, never mind doing it from their teenage years through to their mid-late thirties as Messi and Ronaldo have.

You're absolutely right in saying that it's a generation thing. My dad has Maradona as the best of time, whereas my grandpa has Pele. I'd go for Messi. I'm 33.

Reminds me of someone in here who was in their 20s saying that Lev Yashin was the best goalkeeper of all time a year or two ago.

I agree its all totally subjective. In Pele, Cruyff, etc, defence, imagine if they had the freedom to play football in what is almost a non-contact sport.? I reckon they would have been even better.

 

[Drop the Shoulder]

When I was in Buenos Aires in 2014, our guide took us to the Boca and showed us the statue of Maradona at the stadium. He made a comment that Lionel Messi could only hope to emulate Maradona. So I do think, at least at an Argentine level, he has always been trying to live up to that Maradona comparison.

Messi isn't particularly popular in Argentina, mainly down to the fact that he moved to Spain at 13 years old.

 

[Pirlo]

Mad that we’ve got bears on here who were Napoli season tickets holders in the 80’s

 

[dt17]

Yes on Maradona. But I don’t think many view Messi as a Catalan.

Their personalities are so different, which plays partly on how they are viewed. Maradona was never shy on offering opinions on all manner of subjects - and the era and the country’s politics also played its role.

Isn't Maradona seen as a sort of working class hero in Argentina? Obviously won them the World Cup but also played club football in Argentina as well?

Messi left Argentina as a boy.

 

[Sheik Ma Shammy]

Good goal tonight took it really well.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

Messi has actually been seen by most of us every other week (if we want to watch him) which for me at least sets him slightly apart from the previous legends unless you were lucky enough to follow Maradona/Cruyff/Pele all that closely. The consistency and shattering of expected goal to game returns by Messi and Ronaldo stands out versus those who came before them. I remember thinking a 1 in 2 striker was world class and for about 5-10 years, Messi hit around 40 on average minimum. My Dad and uncle seen Cruyff at Ibrox but they didn't get to see him against the run of the mill Dutch sides, who you've got to imagine weren't as good as the Spanish equivalents Messi was up against for his entire meaningful career. During that time, Spain cleaned up internationally hinting at a strong league and Sevilla were the best of the rest in the secondary European competition which implies depth. His dominance in the European game wasn't replicated by Maradona who never won a European Cup, and was actively sold by Barcelona before they became the club they are now - for better and worse there too. I'd say that consistency at club level puts him ahead when you're trying to look at it objectively, but appreciate that nostalgia and legends growing over time might push Maradona, Cruyff and Pele ahead for others. In regards to the Messi vs Ronaldo debate, I think it shows who actually played and appreciates football over those who are just there for the numbers.

 

[Oranje]

There’s no denying how great he is but the whole fan club thing is overbearing. I support football teams not individual players.

Messi could spit on their granny and the virgins of social media would be going wild. “The greatest spit ever from the GOAT .”

 

[Wang]

Messi won't, and still be better than the both of them.

Who cares, he’s a genius as are the others being mentioned.

Why do posters need to establish a hierarchy.

Just enjoy them all and what little time we have left on the planet.

 

[dcbear]

He deserves to be in the top five all time alongside Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano and Puskas.

 

[julian candy]

There’s no denying how great he is but the whole fan club thing is overbearing. I support football teams not individual players.

Messi could spit on their granny and the virgins of social media would be going wild. “The greatest spit ever from the GOAT .”

How many teams do you support?

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

There’s no denying how great he is but the whole fan club thing is overbearing. I support football teams not individual players.

Messi could spit on their granny and the virgins of social media would be going wild. “The greatest spit ever from the GOAT .”

I realize there's an irony in me talking up how great Messi is but social media support of a football club is fake in comparison to the actual emotional investment that comes from following a local team. A lot of these guys will have actively switched from watching Barcelona to PSG when Messi moved - likewise that might also apply to which team they claim to support.