Long term sustainable growth. Deal with it.

Aww Skew said:
People are saying we’ve made progress because we’ve beat Celtic but on current form we’ll end up further behind than we were last season and potentially worse off than Pedro/Murtys season

European runs have been great and progress has definitely been made in that area however it’s counter productive as it’s bought Gerrard a lot of leeway.

If we’re taking Europe out of the equation, would you still say we’re making progress? We’ve spent around £20m building this squad and it’s full of players who dont have what it takes
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They made more money than that selling one crock. That's what the clubs up against
 
OP is correct. However that doesn’t mean we cannot criticise progress along the way. Tactically Gerrard has a lot to learn. Pointing out we keep losing stupid goals from long balks through the middle is perfectly reasonable. We need to keep improving. We aren’t just now.
 
Now and forever said:
There is that train of thought or another one which is we have thrown more than we have at it and ended up with Kent and Helander for £10m without getting close to it.

The europa is hiding over cracks, we are sitting in February and out of the league race.
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If it wasn't for the europa we wouldn't be signing players for £10 million. The europa run in the last couple of years has raised our profile, gave us some memorial nights and helped our finances
 
Greggy75 said:
So


So we sack Gerrard and expect the next man to win the league in his first season. Aye I can see that happening ffs
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So tell me then what do you think Gerrard will do next season to win the league now hes blown it twice after the break so please tell me what will be different.
Are you saying a more experienced manager wouldn't be able to handle it better and just for you ffs .
 
SDF said:
Lennon is sitting on 76 points right now.

Rodgers in his time here was 80, 64 and 66 after the same amount of games.

There's not that much of a drop off in levels of performance from Rodgers first season and it's miles better than his last 2.

If anything, the Tims are going for their opponents throat a helluva lot more under Lennon.
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I suppose my initial point about the ‘sustainable growth’ stands.

When King took the helm, if you had said come this season, Celtic would be heading for their fourth successive treble and going for ten next season, I wouldn’t be bandying about terms like sustainable growth.
 
tumsheeheed said:
It’s obvious we’re not there yet but we’re getting there it’s taking a lot longer than we’d hoped but I’m in for the long hall the rest of yous and there’s a lot that have jumped on the bandwagon can feck right off
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My sentiments exactly
 
Greggy75 said:
If it wasn't for the europa we wouldn't be signing players for £10 million. The europa run in the last couple of years has raised our profile, gave us some memorial nights and helped our finances
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We're still posting losses so the europa isn't covering that.

We have still to pay Kent up.
 
Inverhouse said:
So tell me then what do you think Gerrard will do next season to win the league now hes blown it twice after the break so please tell me what will be different.
Are you saying a more experienced manager wouldn't be able to handle it better and just for you ffs .
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Don't know what Gerrard will do next season. Depends on what money he's got to spend. Do you think it's fair to bring a new man in and expect him to win the league in his first season? There is no quick fix.
 
TimzRFudz said:
Your second point is really important and lost on many.

FWIW, whilst individual errors are costing us, I genuinely believe the midfield three - whichever combination it is - has by and large failed to perform week in week out since December. That puts pressure on the defence and it also means the front three have no platform to play off of. Many won't agree with me, but I still feel we could do with an absolute monster in there to take no prisoners, destroy things coming at us and to release it forwards with no fuss. Pragmatism over style at times....
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Two good elemenst in there,
1. Edmundson could be worth a shot in there in that role.
2. Gerrard and, I'm sure, Beale, either learn to manage the game actually playing out in front of them rather than a conceptual contest only they see or they fail. These players make look the biz at Auchenhowie and talk the talk but they can't bring it in the awkward games.
 
Aww Skew said:
Of course they’re the ones who started all this but we’re now in a position where we have by far the second biggest budget in the league.

There gets a point that a line has to be drawn and fans stop looking backwards.

2012 is not the reason that we’ve dropped 10 points since returning from the winter break. Our squad shouldn’t be capitulating in the manner that it is, so let’s look at the causes of that rather than citing 7/8 years ago as an excuse
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You said it 2nd biggest budget and we're 2nd.
 
A very reasonable post. Two comments.

First, there continues to be quite a bit of talk of big money coming in by way of investment over the next couple of months. Yes we have heard that sort of chat before so maybe it will happen and maybe it won’t and we probably all have a different view of what “big money” is and the extent to which it may or may not materially change things.

Second, a key part of our longer term business model has always been trumpeted as youth development. Now I don’t watch the U23s etc so I don’t know how close some of them are to the first team. If Gerrard or anyone elss says that this current season was too soon for an infusion of youth then fine I can’t argue with that. But there must come a point - and it can’t be far off - when the “not quite ready” justification has to fall away. And if the justification is “10IAR” then spare me because I don’t see a strong link between the two. We are either committed to bringing some youth through or we are not.
 
Renfrew@UKGB&NI said:
You said it 2nd biggest budget and we're 2nd.
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We’ve won the league before having second biggest budget. We’ve finished third a few times with second biggest budget.

Fact is we’re spending a fortune on players who don’t have the minerals to see out wins against bang average spl players
 
Greggy75 said:
Don't know what Gerrard will do next season. Depends on what money he's got to spend. Do you think it's fair to bring a new man in and expect him to win the league in his first season? There is no quick fix.
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I said a more experienced manager could stop 10 in a row for the mentally challengeds the word could.
 
We're progessing probably not as quick as people like. It will be a slow process though.

We have a great starting 11 if they are all performing. Our squad still needs to improve overall.
 
truebluesince82 said:
Not sure three more wins in the league is really a measurable difference. More just circumstance going your way could explain that small a change. little luckier nothing more.

£10m plus increase in wage budget to be slightly better off is no return to sing about.
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3 wins is 9 points more but hey ho That’s the spirit. Keeping looking for any negatives. I’ll keep supporting my team as they move onwards and upwards. As I’m sure they will. Every club in the world has lean patches at some point. Unfortunately we are right in the middle of one when we least need it. The good times aren’t far away. That’s for sure
 
Now and forever said:
Obviously

But on the park it's all about the league and with the losses we're posting i just wonder how much we'll be spending in the summer. My concern is we've thrown the kitchen sink at it.
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The PLC posted losses of something like £11m

Then the club went out and bought Hellander and Kent for about the same again, which led to saying there would be a £10m shortfall this year.

There will need to be either more loans, a share issue or significant asset sales just to balance the books before spending more money.

Throwing the kitchen sink at it might not be way off the mark.

And people are talking about "sustainable growth".
 
The OP might be fine for Man Utd or Arsenal, big clubs looking to get back to the top in a an ultra competitive league but it's not for us.

There is simply never, ever, ever an excuse for Rangers sides not to regularly beating Hearts, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock and St Johnstone.

This point has been made time and time again and the posters never see the contradiction they are making. Yes Celtic have a financial advantage but so do we, over the rest and it's games against the rest that are stopping us being successful.
 
Now and forever said:
Obviously

But on the park it's all about the league and with the losses we're posting i just wonder how much we'll be spending in the summer. My concern is we've thrown the kitchen sink at it.
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Yeah King and the board have done what they said they would and we're grateful for it. What happens over the next few years is crucial. We're at a crossroad. We need to sort out retail out and find new investment. How we do that I don't know.
 
Inverhouse said:
I said a more experienced manager could stop 10 in a row for the mentally challengeds the word could.
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It's alright saying that but can you name him? We could still win the league this year. We could win the SC this season. We could win the europa this season.
 
midlandbear said:
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.
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Very well said.It is very difficult to take,but,it was always a long term fix.It was never getting sorted in 2 years.Anyone who thought or believes that is fkng dillusional.
 
Reality is that Gerard is probably just laying foundations. Looks like we possibly may not win 55 under his watch, not unless we are willing to play the long game. A longer game.
That long game is gonna be slow and hard to watch with lots more pain in store...especially as we watch them land the now inevitable 9 in a row and very probably another trebble to boot.

Now when you look at what we have as a team/ squad, you have to say they don't look like they have a cup win in them, never mind any league win.

The investment still needed to turn this squad into a title winning one is still pretty huge.. You can't argue that the catalyst of this team are just not winners. Not deep down. Yet we stick by that same catalyst through a combination of stubbornness, distrust of the squad and lack of investment ( yes I know we have spent some money but it's not enough or not on the right players.
This summer, like last summer (Kent) We are going to have to find £5m to buy Hagi, just to remain as good as we are today.

We then need to rip the weak guts out that side and find better, much better.

Them chasing 10 will be a pressure that kills many in this squad. They won't live under that pressure.
Them landing 10 in a row will probably throw a massive grenade at project Gerard. Can he survive that? The implosion from that probably means there is no way the vast majority of fans will see beyond that 10 being achieved and settle for him to go on.

For Gerard to work...
We need to look beyond 10?
Are we willing to look beyond 10 and try to keep building?
 
I don’t know how people can say we haven’t improved because all the markers are there. We have went further in Europe, further in the league cup, we have more league points. I get that it’s not good enough, I’m in my late 40s and I’ve seen shite Rangers teams, good Rangers teams and excellent Rangers teams. Fact is, we have improved this year but unfortunately so have they.


The league is probably gone, it’ll take a disaster for them to throw it away. But, we have two more goes at the bastards and I expect to beat them at least once.

Scottish Cup has to be the target now. Anything in Europe is a bonus.

Next year, Gerrard needs to win the league. Not because it’s a number ten, because three years is plenty.
 
I’ve been thinking for a while we are not putting enough tactical thought or are just underestimating the so-called “diddy” teams. We’re not learning from how they play against us and countering their tactics. People say they have us sussed but we are not sussing their simple tactics. Today it was the long ball over the top to their two front men. Same against Killie.
 
Greebo said:
The PLC posted losses of something like £11m

Then the club went out and bought Hellander and Kent for about the same again, which led to saying there would be a £10m shortfall this year.

There will need to be either more loans, a share issue or significant asset sales just to balance the books before spending more money.

Throwing the kitchen sink at it might not be way off the mark.

And people are talking about "sustainable growth".
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We’re all thinking of the emotional/on-field issues today.

When you begin to account for our off-field issues and thrown ‘sack the management/sell the team’ into the mix, then you realise how fucked we are.
 
midlandbear said:
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.
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Forget 9-10-11-12 but the current model as you call it is failure. On repeat. %^*& that
 
Greggy75 said:
It's alright saying that but can you name him? We could still win the league this year. We could win the SC this season. We could win the europa this season.
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Greggy75 said:
It's alright saying that but can you name him? We could still win the league this year. We could win the SC this season. We could win the europa this season.
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Why would I need to name them and do you honestly believe we can still win the league seriously. As for the Europa have you actually watched us play since we came back after the break.
The Scottish cup is our only chance of silverware realistically can we win I hope to God we can but if I am being realistic with our form I dont think we will but I hope I am wrong.
 
midlandbear said:
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.
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Outstanding post, for which I am fully in agreement.
 
Greebo said:
I'm not really seeing the sustainable growth.

"At the time of preparation, the forecast identified that the Group would require £10.0m by way of debt or equity funding by the end of season 2019/2020 in order to meet its liabilities as they fall due. The first tranche of funding is required from investors in November 2019. However, the final amount required is dependent on future football performance, European football participation and player trading amongst other factors. "
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You’re not seeing the sustainable growth from a significantly improved balance sheet and an assembled squad capable of back to back group stage qualification and beyond?
 
Inverhouse said:
Why would I need to name them and do you honestly believe we can still win the league seriously. As for the Europa have you actually watched us play since we came back after the break.
The Scottish cup is our only chance of silverware realistically can we win I hope to God we can but if I am being realistic with our form I dont think we will but I hope I am wrong.
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You've said a more experienced man could win the league next year. I'm interested in who you think could come in and win the league in his first season.
 
Greggy75 said:
You've said a more experienced man could win the league next year. I'm interested in who you think could come in and win the league in his first season.
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I think you should actually read what people post before jumping in try going back to the 1st post that you commented on then get back to me .
 
Commentator said:
I see, it's just not possible to have 'long term sustainable growth' and not make the same mistakes repeatedly in the short term?
Can you explain why not, please?
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There’s a triple negative in your post to the point where I don’t actually know what you are asking.
 
There is a lot to be pissed off about today. An awful lot. We were garbage against a side we should be steamrollering. We’ve had an awful few weeks of form, interrupted only by a wonderful, crazy 25 mins on Thursday night.

But... there is a lot of sense in the OP. The “burn it down every time we fail to take a step forward” mentality won’t bring us long term success. We’ve got people on here today saying we haven’t progressed since Murty. It’s fucking insanity. Any of us who stood, humiliated, at Hampden - less than 2 years ago - can see the progress.

Has it been a constant, upward trajectory? No. Do some of the manger’s mistakes seem so predictable to the point it’s baffling he’s making them? Absolutely. Do some of the players look shit out of form and shadows of themselves? Worryingly so. But better Rangers teams than this have gone through sticky spells. Better, more experienced, managers than Gerrard have had periods where they just couldn’t get anything right. It’s rubbish, it hurts and it makes you angry. But the apparent contest to be the most outraged on here is utterly bizarre.
 
midlandbear said:
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.
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When do we start demanding a title chasing team then ? Before or after they get to 55 first ?
 
Gerrard according to Dave King has had 30 million spend shaping his team.
He said we front loaded the spend to make us have a chance of the title.
He said now we have to live within our means meaning a strict set budget.
Any decent manager out there could have us in second place and in Europe with the 39 million plus the players we already had.

We gambled on perdo and took an even bigger gamble on Gerrard.
He was an under 18s coach being a great player does not mean he will be a great manager.

He is a Warburton mk2 433 plan b is do plan A better
We are stuck with him and his huge backroom staff who are all on new 4 year deals

If this continues the scum will get 55 before We do
 
Inverhouse said:
I think you should actually read what people post before jumping in try going back to the 1st post that you commented on then get back to me .
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I have read what you've said. No I don't think we will win the league. I can't see us winning the europa. On our current form we're not winning the SC. So what do we do? Where do we go from here? You've said a more experienced man could win the league next year. I don't disagree with that. But in my opinion we've a better chance of winning the league with Gerrard next year than we have if we change our manager again. So I'm going back to it. Who do you think could come in and do a better job than Gerrard?
 
Said this in another thread:

Some are forgetting that our club has been hamstrung (and indeed, nearly decimated) via a strategy of the lowest order, orchestrated by that other mob from across the city and their placemen, and that as a result, that mob have essentially been handed victory on a plate for the last 8 seasons, and have enjoyed all the spoils from that.

Think of where we have come from over recent years. Really dwell on that for a moment.

The squad needs investment, and Gerrard is a key part in attracting the right (high quality) players. Hagi is the most recent example. With the right aquisitions, we can succeed.
 
midlandbear said:
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.
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Great post!
I've only scan read the replies and it was mostly what I expected after dropping a couple of points.
For me the Gerrard "experiment" is largely working albeit with a few "bumps on the road" that was predicted by almost everyone.
This summers signings and next seasons performance will be the deciding factor for me!
 
Deal with what? What part of the long term sustainability framework explains our shit show defensive display today? There’s no point in having recruitment ‘strategies’ if they just constantly try and get forced into a 4-3-3. It’s the same hill Warburton‘s rangers career died on.
 
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