Long term sustainable growth. Deal with it.

3 wins is 9 points more but hey ho That’s the spirit. Keeping looking for any negatives. I’ll keep supporting my team as they move onwards and upwards. As I’m sure they will. Every club in the world has lean patches at some point. Unfortunately we are right in the middle of one when we least need it. The good times aren’t far away. That’s for sure
blind optimism is just as harmful as blind ignorance.

We need to get the biggest bang for our buck possible not just accept minimum returns for massive outlays.

We will need to agree to disagree on us having moved forward performance wise. We haven't moved anywhere near forward enough for the money spent on the team.

I will continue to support my team at all times but that doesn't mean I need to make platitudes to feel better about it
 
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.
Tend to agree. I don't really care about the tainted 9 or 10. I don't personally understand why it's such a big deal.
 
I have read what you've said. No I don't think we will win the league. I can't see us winning the europa. On our current form we're not winning the SC. So what do we do? Where do we go from here? You've said a more experienced man could win the league next year. I don't disagree with that. But in my opinion we've a better chance of winning the league with Gerrard next year than we have if we change our manager again. So I'm going back to it. Who do you think could come in and do a better job than Gerrard?
Well obviously you haven't read what I posted when I clearly said that I honestly dont know who .
I have no problem with your opinion thinking Gerrard can win us the league next season we are all entitled to our own opinion I simply cant see it myself .
What makes you think that he will have a better chance what do you think he will do better after the break next season that will be different?.
 
Ok, so how long do we accept second place is acceptable? How long do we accept no silverware?

Teams with a fraction of our budget are regularly taking points off us but we’ve got to give blind faith into the notion it’ll eventually get better?

I don’t care what anyone says, no major trophy in 9 years is an embarrassment considering the size of our budget compared to every single team outwith Celtic
Five or six of those years were not exactly normal.
 
blind optimism is just as harmful as blind ignorance.

We need to get the biggest bang for our buck possible not just accept minimum returns for massive outlays.

We will need to agree to disagree on us having moved forward performance wise. We haven't moved anywhere near forward enough for the money spent on the team.

I will continue to support my team at all times but that doesn't mean I need to make platitudes to feel better about it
Nothing atall blind in what I’m saying so I think we will just agree to disagree full stop. Move on.
 
My head is going up and down at the moment to be honest, but if I am being truthful I think a lot of the panic is about them getting their 10, and quite frankly I absolutely do not want it to happen and I'm sure all the tims reading these posts are pishing themselves, but if it means long-term sustainability in the top-flight then forget about their 10, which lets be honest again isn't exactly one that'll go down in the history books as being hard fought. A commendable achievement by any side; no doubt- but not one of true challenge by their dreadful European performance and their drive in aiding our demise.

Likewise, I think I need a level head from now on and as a fan-base look at the bigger picture. I'm just as impatient as anyone else and especially with the hurt and pain of the past few years we're getting sick of it. Again, hopefully the years of pain, despair and lack-of-trophies translate to sustained success for the remainder of our lifetimes, especially someone who wasn't around to see our 9 or old enough to properly enjoy competitive league success.
 
Five or six of those years were not exactly normal.

But every single season since we have been 'normal' they've won every single domestic trophy available to them? For how long do we bank on their downfall instead of our own success is my question, arguably contrary to my reply to the OP.
 
Well obviously you haven't read what I posted when I clearly said that I honestly dont know who .
I have no problem with your opinion thinking Gerrard can win us the league next season we are all entitled to our own opinion I simply cant see it myself .
What makes you think that he will have a better chance what do you think he will do better after the break next season that will be different?.

How would I know what he'll do next year? I think we've got a better chance with him because I can't think of any manager who would come here and do a better job.
 
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But every single season since we have been 'normal' they've won every single domestic trophy available to them? For how long do we bank on their downfall instead of our own success is my question, arguably contrary to my reply to the OP.
I don't think anyone is banking on the downfall of the bheast. Rebuilding takes a long time.
 
How would I know what he'll do next year?
So what makes you think he has a better chance of winning the league for Gerrard to have any chance of winning the league we couldn't fall on our arses after the break next season so why do you think he would have a better chance?.
 
I said on a thread the other day but don’t expect it to be popular opinion. Doing well in Europe consistently is what will catch them. Nothing else. So that is more important now
 
I don't think anyone is banking on the downfall of the bheast. Rebuilding takes a long time.

A lot of folk just seem to accept that we're going to win the league at some point with no credible explanation as to how or why though. I see this is a 'bigger-picture' but we can't just live on blind-optimism.
I said with our current mentality the sad truth is we will win the league, yes, but it won't be any more than once or twice in the next 15 years and I got torn a new one for it.
 
Maybe, however the manager is key, they have went from a top Premiership manager to Lennon, massive downgrading.
They still have the players Rodgers developed into right good ones. We need them to lose Edouard and one more in the summer, that’s the reality of it. We need them to have an off season
 
Reality is that Gerard is probably just laying foundations. Looks like we possibly may not win 55 under his watch, not unless we are willing to play the long game. A longer game.
That long game is gonna be slow and hard to watch with lots more pain in store...especially as we watch them land the now inevitable 9 in a row and very probably another trebble to boot.

Now when you look at what we have as a team/ squad, you have to say they don't look like they have a cup win in them, never mind any league win.

The investment still needed to turn this squad into a title winning one is still pretty huge.. You can't argue that the catalyst of this team are just not winners. Not deep down. Yet we stick by that same catalyst through a combination of stubbornness, distrust of the squad and lack of investment ( yes I know we have spent some money but it's not enough or not on the right players.
This summer, like last summer (Kent) We are going to have to find £5m to buy Hagi, just to remain as good as we are today.

We then need to rip the weak guts out that side and find better, much better.

Them chasing 10 will be a pressure that kills many in this squad. They won't live under that pressure.
Them landing 10 in a row will probably throw a massive grenade at project Gerard. Can he survive that? The implosion from that probably means there is no way the vast majority of fans will see beyond that 10 being achieved and settle for him to go on.

For Gerard to work...
We need to look beyond 10?
Are we willing to look beyond 10 and try to keep building?

I think you get it!
This is the size of real challenge we are facing.

I didn't but a ticket for the 55 express last season, this season nor will I be buying one for next season.
W/O a serious financial investment we will not challenge.
Stopping 10 in the circumstances that Pedro left and Gerrard was always unlikely
For all the talk of 'sustainable growth' King & the Board have front loaded investment in a desperate gamble to stop 10- it has failed. I'm not sure Gerrard survives that failure! But ripping it up means another 2-3 year rebuild with all the tim trebles that that means!
We have shown tremendous patience and loyalty since the the journey began it's going to be needed in the years ahead.
 
A lot of folk just seem to accept that we're going to win the league at some point with no credible explanation as to how or why though. I see this is a 'bigger-picture' but we can't just live on blind-optimism.
I said with our current mentality the sad truth is we will win the league, yes, but it won't be any more than once or twice in the next 15 years and I got torn a new one for it.
You've crossed to pessimism. The credible explanation is to keep building on what we have. There is no reason to think that we've reached a stage where one in fifteen is the outlook.
 
I think you get it!
This is the size of real challenge we are facing.

I didn't but a ticket for the 55 express last season, this season nor will I be buying one for next season.
W/O a serious financial investment we will not challenge.
Stopping 10 in the circumstances that Pedro left and Gerrard was always unlikely
For all the talk of 'sustainable growth' King & the Board have front loaded investment in a desperate gamble to stop 10- it has failed. I'm not sure Gerrard survives that failure! But ripping it up means another 2-3 year rebuild with all the tim trebles that that means!
We have shown tremendous patience and loyalty since the the journey began it's going to be needed in the years ahead.
How has investment been front-loaded?
 
Gerrard is making the exact same mistakes in the league as he did last year, last week and last season.

We are further behind comparatively than last year.

So are you telling me Gerrard is getting all these two season mistakes out his system to go for more progress next year?

Progress needs to be tangible, not just perception.

Potentially we are going to end the season exactly two games better off than we did last year provided we finish the job against Braga.

I dont think that merits any sort of over cooked optimism.

With a better team, and more resources Gerrard has got us one game in Europe better off than last year.

One game.
 
So what makes you think he has a better chance of winning the league for Gerrard to have any chance of winning the league we couldn't fall on our arses after the break next season so why do you think he would have a better chance?.
[/QUOTE

Any manager we get is up against it. It comes down to finances sadly. So for me getting shot of Gerrard and expecting a new man to come in and win the league next year is unrealistic.
 
There are periods from our long history where we’ve been unsuccessful, and for very different reasons. We don’t have a divine right to win. However there also have been very many other periods of success. Remember, .... very few clubs would have survived what happened to ourselves in 2012. We are still recovering from that period. Anyone who says we haven’t made progress from those dark days is kidding themselves on.

We are now closer to where we want to be than at any time in the last decade. Ripping things up every season because we are still chasing is the wrong mindset. It’s the hope that can kill you as they say!.. but just look at what Gerrard inherited and how quickly he has turned ourselves from league also rans to comfortably miles away from 3rd and the rest of the dross. The squad we have now is incomparable to the ones we had just 4 or 5 seasons ago in the lower leagues. The quality is far superior. However, the scum have been a different animal these past few seasons and relentless which is slightly skewing all the good work that has been done, so every dropped point is magnified.

That is why we MUST win the cup this year to start applying the pressure, start to break their recent monopoly on trophies and start planting those seeds of doubt in their minds.
 
At what point in the re-build does dropping 10 points in a month (8 of them from winning positions) become unacceptable then?

The standard in the league this season is as bad as it has ever been. We should be wiping the floor with the rest of them, give or take the odd game.

Oh but we have more points this season than in x number of previous title winning campaigns/some other turd polishing stat.

People really are going some lengths to defend an unacceptable domestic collapse post-winter break for the second year in a row, when Gerrard has been backed hugely by the board.

I could almost deal with it in the short term if our football wasn’t so eye-bleedingly awful to watch like it has been since we came back, but we are absolutely wretched to watch and so ponderous it’s genuinely incredible.
 
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.

I feel physically sick after today. But the only alternatives are knee jerk reactions that will hurt us in the long run. This is the only option.

And I also agree, their ten means nothing as it’s tainted.
 
Speaking of which. Who's our new Chairman? King said he was jumping ship 3 months ago and he still hasn't.
We’ll no doubt find out at season ticket renewal time with a letter telling us how great we are & a wee bit of heart tugging paragraphs about where we are & where we want to be, it’s becoming boring now
 
I still suspect the walking heart attack has delayed external investment in our club by his continual f@ckibg about with our retail deal.
 
This season imo was our real chance to win the league and we have thrown it away and in summer we will lose key players to balance the books as we can't keep operating at a loss. We need them to feel the pressure and bottle it for us to win it sadly that is the harsh truth but it also doesn't help the fact we have handed them these last two without a fight. Prepare for the worst i'd say there's more disappointment ahead and with our team of losers and our missing boardroom it will only get worse we can't see out a game we've been winning and then revert back to the same f#cking formation that isn't working if he doesn't change it soon i won't be sad to see the back of him.
 
Ok, so how long do we accept second place is acceptable? How long do we accept no silverware?

Teams with a fraction of our budget are regularly taking points off us but we’ve got to give blind faith into the notion it’ll eventually get better?

I don’t care what anyone says, no major trophy in 9 years is an embarrassment considering the size of our budget compared to every single team outwith Celtic
Okay, bear. What's your answer?
The bear has made a sensible post. You clearly disagree. What's your alternative plan?
Oh, that's right, you don't care what anyone says.
Don't fret, manchild, someone else will pick up your toys.
 
We’ll no doubt find out at season ticket renewal time with a letter telling us how great we are & a wee bit of heart tugging paragraphs about where we are & where we want to be, it’s becoming boring now

We've had the same tune fiddled to us since 2015, and unfortunately we have our hands tied as there is nothing we can do about it as we don't have the money or the facilities. I'll give the Board their due for aiming at the bigger picture, but everything for the most part from the Board has been silence and consistent pummelling from the media and court cases. Maybe it's a lot on their plate, maybe they've got a masterplan, but the leaving us in suspense is getting all too frustrating now.
 
We’ll no doubt find out at season ticket renewal time with a letter telling us how great we are & a wee bit of heart tugging paragraphs about where we are & where we want to be, it’s becoming boring now

Not mention8ng this in mitigation of this afternoon, would just love Robertson & co to have overtly criticised all the shíte that we have been force fed by dodgy match officials.
 
Ok, so how long do we accept second place is acceptable? How long do we accept no silverware?

Teams with a fraction of our budget are regularly taking points off us but we’ve got to give blind faith into the notion it’ll eventually get better?

I don’t care what anyone says, no major trophy in 9 years is an embarrassment considering the size of our budget compared to every single team outwith Celtic
This is a major issue for me too, and funnily enough was saying it just an hour ago to my dad. We have been back in the top league four seasons and Celtic have won 11 out of the 12 trophies available. Possibly/likely it will be 12/12 should they win the Scottish cup. Forgetting the gap between us and them, we still have a budget that dwarves the other ten teams. To not even have won a cup in that time is scandalous.
 
Okay, bear. What's your answer?
The bear has made a sensible post. You clearly disagree. What's your alternative plan?
Oh, that's right, you don't care what anyone says.
Don't fret, manchild, someone else will pick up your toys.

Man child for saying that we shouldn’t be accepting of looking at second place as acceptable.

It’s “fans” like yourself that are part of the issue - you continue to patronise fans who expect high standards and I’ll continue being a realist who expects success. Thankfully I don’t meet many people like yourself on my travels domestically/Europe
 
Gerrard is making the exact same mistakes in the league as he did last year, last week and last season.

We are further behind comparatively than last year.

So are you telling me Gerrard is getting all these two season mistakes out his system to go for more progress next year?

Progress needs to be tangible, not just perception.

Potentially we are going to end the season exactly two games better off than we did last year provided we finish the job against Braga.

I dont think that merits any sort of over cooked optimism.

With a better team, and more resources Gerrard has got us one game in Europe better off than last year.

One game.
Two games.
I'll be watching on Wednesday.
You?
 
Man child for saying that we shouldn’t be accepting of looking at second place as acceptable.

It’s “fans” like yourself that are part of the issue - you continue to patronise fans who expect high standards and I’ll continue being a realist who expects success. Thankfully I don’t meet many people like yourself on my travels domestically/Europe
A 'realist who expects success'.???
Dry your eyes uber fan
Wake up .
 
The whole model from root to fruit is for a long term squad and supportive infrastructure that is sustainable when we return to the top. Quick fixes don’t work and we don’t have the finance to do it anyway.
It may take longer than we all want, but we can’t deny the improvement across the board, especially in a European competition we didn’t expect to even get out of qualification for.

We need to stop acting like spoilt weans demanding everything immediately and realise that one of the all time great leaders is at the helm. He’s bringing us back from what was a horrendous mess, to being able to beat the time on their own patch, get out of a very high calibre European group and give us a situation where we can even consider challenging for the league.

We should forget about stopping 9 or 10. Personally it means nothing to me as they know they’ve not been contested. I will take the current model every day of the week, as we are gradually making up the ground and when we go past them, we will have the strength and stability to keep them in their box for a long time.
Easily the most sensible post on here tonight,some of the hysterical shite we've seen here has been unbelievable and quite frankly mentally challengedesque.I'll just add one thing...
See if the mentally challengeds get their 10,or even get to 55 first?It'll mean the square root of %^*& all to them the first time we beat them afterwards,such is their hatred of us,it would mean %^*& all to them,that's the difference between us and them.They'd be back to fighting among themselves,it would ruin their squalid meaningless lives.Bear that in mind troops.
 
This is a major issue for me too, and funnily enough was saying it just an hour ago to my dad. We have been back in the top league four seasons and Celtic have won 11 out of the 12 trophies available. Possibly/likely it will be 12/12 should they win the Scottish cup. Forgetting the gap between us and them, we still have a budget that dwarves the other ten teams. To not even have won a cup in that time is scandalous.

Awwww,,... if only teams would just roll over and let us beat them because we pay our players more.

It just doesn’t work like that unfortunately. Having a big budget is just one piece of a big jigsaw. They have a squad used to success, being in front and winning the main domestic trophies. We are still playing catchup in these departments at the moment. It’s identifying these types of players who can deal with the domestic dross and cloggers who’s only mission is to avoid defeat rather than win the game. Look how open the braga game was and compare this to the vast majority of s p hell games.
 
They still have the players Rodgers developed into right good ones. We need them to lose Edouard and one more in the summer, that’s the reality of it. We need them to have an off season

There’s little chance of that happening when they are this close to 10, no team from either side will ever be in this position again I doubt, so they will go all out in the summer to make sure they get their goal.

It’s going to be a horrendous couple of years for us now.
 
Ok but I still dont understand why you think Gerrard has a better chance of winning the league.
Look at what he started with. We were a shambles. Has he made us better? I would say yes definitely. He's made mistakes. Every manager does. We've played some good football under him. If it's our first 11 on the pitch we are a good side. When we have to use our squad player's that's when we struggle. I think the europa is a double edged sword. It takes its toll on the players but it helps our finances. He carries himself well and is a good ambassador for the club. We attract a better standard of player because of him. To change now and bring somebody else in right now would be madness. We've played our cards. We don't have the money to rip it up and start again. I would rather we got behind him and gave him our support.
 
Awwww,,... if only teams would just roll over and let us beat them because we pay our players more.

It just doesn’t work like that unfortunately. Having a big budget is just one piece of a big jigsaw. They have a squad used to success, being in front and winning the main domestic trophies. We are still playing catchup in these departments at the moment. It’s identifying these types of players who can deal with the domestic dross and cloggers who’s only mission is to avoid defeat rather than win the game. Look how open the braga game was and compare this to the vast majority of s p hell games.

How big a piece in that jigsaw is a competent football manager who knows what he is doing?
 
There’s little chance of that happening when they are this close to 10, no team from either side will ever be in this position again I doubt, so they will go all out in the summer to make sure they get their goal.

It’s going to be a horrendous couple of years for us now.
That’s probably true. This is what the board get for wasting our first two seasons after our return in the top flight
 
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I will be there Wednesday, you?
No.
Can't afford it. Ex wife and three kids. Own home. Bills. Business to run.
If you have the same responsibilities as I do and can still afford to go, then well done.
Clearly as you are going to Portugal, you are much much more of a fan than I.
I could of course lie, and say I'll be going, that's how the Seville calculator works.
Enjoy your trip bear. Stay safe.
 
That’s probably true. This is what the board get for wasting our first two seasons after our return in the top flight
In my opinion, the appointment of Pedro Caixinha was a crucial mistake, and a lot of money (which we could really be doing with now) was wasted.

For me, Gerrard and his team are a course-correction (I still maintain this despite recent setbacks), and I hope the board stick with him and back him as much as they can. The squad needs investment.
 
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No.
Can't afford it. Ex wife and three kids. Own home. Bills. Business to run.
If you have the same responsibilities as I do and can still afford to go, then well done.
Clearly as you are going to Portugal, you are much much more of a fan than I.
I could of course lie, and say I'll be going, that's how the Seville calculator works.
Enjoy your trip bear. Stay safe.

Hope the pissing contest gave you a wee ego boost.

All the best with the business, stay profitable.
 
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