MacKay or Keane?

RobGer

Well-Known Member
Keane would have shit himself if he had gone up against the hard men of the 60s and 70s.
I think Richard Gough tells a story when playing with Everton when he'd put RK on his arse an stood over him and said 'I thought you were a hard man'? and no quip back.
 

RobGer

Well-Known Member
I mind watching Strachen and McAllister both saying Cantona was nuts and everybody at Leeds were terrified of him
Wasn't hard in his defeats against Gers and eventually got himself deliberately sent off in a friendly after Gers fans were giving him a hard time
 
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Scoot

Well-Known Member
Two of my favourite Leeds players Bremner and Giles in the background. Both had reputations as hard men in their own way.

But both recognizing MacKay was taking this to another level.
if you download the original pic you can also see a young Terry Venables watching the scuffle from afar!
 

FhillBear

Well-Known Member
Shearer would have, and should have, burst Keane. I reckon Shearer was a right hard cunt.

Keane is a gobshite.
 

jomacbe

Well-Known Member
Just out of interest, are there many highlight reels of MacKay playing still about? Would be interested in seeing both him and the "Ghost of White Hart Lane" when at their best. Hard to believe but it's more than 50 years since these guys played.

Both on here, also Baxter,Caldow,Wilson and Henderson.
 

sheddensbear

Well-Known Member
I'm old enough to remember Mackay, proper hard man, as were many in that generation. By the time Keane arrived, football had been cleaned up, to its betterment.
On FF, most peoples opinion of Keane is based on his religion and country of birth, so largely irrelevant.
Top players could survive in any era, they would adapt to suit.
Regarding Keane being bullied v Clyde, Tavernier, Jack, Miller, Wallace and Morelos v Progres?
 

Forza_Napoli

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't class keane as hard more of a dirty player who looked for revenge on players who either took the piss or left 1 on him. Like most have said not in some of the hardmens shoes that have been mentioned
Definitely no a hard man he shat it at Ipswich after trying to act the hard man with Jonathan Walters when Walters offered him out for a square go he shat it and threatened to report him to the police
 

Manhattan_Loyalist

Well-Known Member
Keane is the furthest thing from a hard man he’s a skinny bag of shite and a coward that no one ever stoop up to other than Patrick Vieira
 

Bulletproof

Well-Known Member
But if you have not heard of him how on earth can you pick one over the other. Take a second move your head side to side and bang those two brain cells together and you might get a spark
Maybe you should Google the word opinion. I made a choice on what I know-wether it be the right or wrong one doesn't matter as its an opinion. Last message on the matter as your "brain cell" comment shows the level of your retorts. The time would be better spent talking to my dog.
 

Grant K

Well-Known Member
McKay was as tough as old boots. He won his third FA Cup winners medal after two leg breaks. In the 60’s a broken leg could be a career ending injury and those that did return were seldom as good (Baxter & Caldow are good examples).

he was not afraid to mix it with any of the hard men of his day and there is a great picture of him holding Bremner by the shirt with a snarl on his face. Don’t remember him being known as a dirty player but no one messed lightly with him. My gut feeling is that Keane would have been wary of taking him on.

He was also a successful manager taking Derby to the 1st Division title.
 

jimbear

Well-Known Member
Keane would have shit himself if he had gone up against the hard men of the 60s and 70s.

Keane looked like a hard man in the time he played because referees were far less tolerant of tough tackling than they were in the 50's, 60's and 70's. Some of the guys who were around in those days would not have stood for any of Keane's nonsense. As soon as he started any of it he would have had it returned with interest. If you have never watched the 1970 FA Cup Final replay between Chelsea and Leeds, do so and you'll see what went on in those days.
 

CaptainStaunch

Well-Known Member
The game has been tamed so much that Keane is regarded as a hard man when the reailty is that if he had played in the era when hard men were in abundance he wouldn't have been noticed. But when a hard wee basturt like Bremner empties his bowels when confornted by an angry Mackay then you know you're talking about a real hard man. But players like Mackay and Harry Davis were hard not dirty. Keane was often just plain dirty.
 

GazzaG

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
The game has been tamed so much that Keane is regarded as a hard man when the reailty is that if he had played in the era when hard men were in abundance he wouldn't have been noticed. But when a hard wee basturt like Bremner empties his bowels when confornted by an angry Mackay then you know you're talking about a real hard man. But players like Mackay and Harry Davis were hard not dirty. Keane was often just plain dirty.
Boasting about trying to end a guys career because you couldn’t handle him tackling you isn't hard, it's fùcking cowardice.

That said, Keane was some player.
 

Noddy

Well-Known Member
Dave MacKay by a mile. For my fellow auld beats, can you imagine Keane grabbing Billy Bremner by the shirt with that growl on his face?
Dave Mackay hated that photo. He said it made him look like a bully, which he most certainly wasn't. The reason he lost his temper was because he had just returned from a leg break and he felt Bremner was targeting the leg he had broken.
 

Clicker

Well-Known Member
Dave Mackay hated that photo. He said it made him look like a bully, which he most certainly wasn't. The reason he lost his temper was because he had just returned from a leg break and he felt Bremner was targeting the leg he had broken.
Says a lot about Bremner.

I imagine Dave Mackay would have Roy Keane for breakfast, as would a few others of that era - Tommy Smith, Ron Harris, Norman Hunter etc.
And I’m sure if he came up against our own Magnificent Bastard he would be put on his arse, if not a stretcher.
 

TinyRick

Well-Known Member
I mind watching Strachen and McAllister both saying Cantona was nuts and everybody at Leeds were terrified of him
Cantona is one of those underrated players in every aspect of his game.

The complete forward for me - made it all look effortless. Doesn't get mentioned enough in the debates about best EPL players.
 

rupertdabear

Well-Known Member
Dave Mackay is my pick but not for the hard man bit .Just for being a totally down to earth person .
Absolute gentleman .
We spent a few hours sitting with him,his son and his driver after the Ted Mc minn testimonial in Derby's social club and they were top people with some great stories of his playing days.
One about George Best kicking him and he told him, hey George,its me thats supposed to be kicking you .
Mackay said best was like a terrier dog snapping away at your ankles all day :))
My three favorite players i ve had the pleasure of meeting were dave mackay,billy simpson and johnny hubbard ,all in equal measure .
they don't make them like that anymore .total gents
 

Bryanmc

Well-Known Member
Keane renowned as a hard man after some cowardly tackles that injured some fellow pros

He even tried the old hold me back from Alan shearer and shearer didn’t back down I vaguely remember Stefan effenberg showing him who the boss was in one game
 

Trevor Reznick

Well-Known Member
Going by reputation, (as I never saw him play) I'd say Dave MacKay would chew him up and spit him out.

Hard as they come, apparently.
Where does that place Ian McColl, who let MacKay know what being hard was all about on his first visit to Ibrox as a Hearts player.
No one has mentioned Duncan Edwards yet, saw him run riot against MacKay and Doug Baillie, in an U23 International.
The difficulty of this type of discussion is separating hard players from dirty players.
 

11alberz

Well-Known Member
Maybe you should Google the word opinion. I made a choice on what I know-wether it be the right or wrong one doesn't matter as its an opinion. Last message on the matter as your "brain cell" comment shows the level of your retorts. The time would be better spent talking to my do

Opinions?ffs laddie,stop digging,
 

BlueSevenTwo

Well-Known Member
The only person who thinks Roy Keane is a hard man is Roy Keane.
the fact he felt the need to tell everyone in his book only serves to back this up.
 

MeanMachine69

Active Member
MacKay. The extremely limited (but very hard) Vinnie Jones dominated Keane when Wimbledon played Manchester UTD back in the mid 90s. Keane was an excellent player but MacKay was much harder.
My overriding memory of Jones was him trying to be hard on Gladiators and looking like an arsehole. Got to give him credit for making the most of his opportunities though.
 

waldo 1160

Well-Known Member
Mackay , Keane may have been the hardest of this generation , there were several in the 70s much harder , souness case Harris Bremner Giles .
You missed out Terry Hurlock...no seriously I think back in the day, someone would have sorted Keane out...no problem.
 
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