Managers hesitation at using substitutions

If the game is going well why risk changing anything? Understand the complaints if the scoreline doesn't suit us, but we make noticeably more subs if things aren't going to plan or if we're a distance ahead.
 
Kamara came on and the first thing he did was fall over the ball.

I thought that made it quite obvious why in such a tense game subs arent used.
 
Tagsbear said:
Its pretty obvious why he doesn't do it, even if it is frustrating.

Its obviously something he experienced as a player that he didn't like upsetting the rhythm in tight games, especially those we don't 'have' to win.

He definitely has more European experience than most of the posters on here I think.
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See this is where I’m torn as subbing someone can upset our shape which is dangerous but also might inject a spark we need when we are knackered, can never decide what’s the best option
 
Sure it will be the unpopular opinion but I thought the manager’s decision almost put us in a difficult position. If Legia had turned dominance into a chance or two, the reaction could be different. He needs to be quicker and decisive with freshening up the forward positions.
 
Ojo was bushed around the 70 minute mark and Jones should've been brought on to stretch their defence. Imo we could've done some damage down the left in the second half if we had Jones on. Don't get me wrong, Ojo had a great first half but just looked knackered in the second half.
 
Sometimes you have leave it the team we’re going well sometimes change can upset the rithem . As woul d liked Jones to come on about 15 to go. But hey still great result away from hom against a tough team.
 
Tough decision to make. If he had subbed and we had lost FF would be going tonto. That said, as many have already mentioned, I think taking Ojo off around 70 mins for Jones was the obvious one. Ojo had stopped tracking back and was out on his feet. But we don't know the big picture.
 
Much as I was screaming for subs to come on, that’s just down to a relatively simplistic viewpoint. Whereas the management team are at the game, have a tactical plan and can communicate with the players.
For all we know we maybe had a game plan based on expected changes Legia would make. If they didn’t materialise then maybe the management team felt no need to change it.
 
Corporal Clegg said:
We didn't need to push for a goal and we were doing fine defensively, so why upset things?
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Because the game was there to be won.
0-0 is NOT a great away result.
Once a BEAR said:
Fucking hell anyone would think we had lost the game, so many managers on here ha. I think the gaffer knows what he's doing and that is why he is in charge of our team. Some should give it a rest.
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Since when have supporters not been entitled to have an opinion?
I don't see anyone on here slating Gerrard. I only see some posters saying they would have liked to see him make a sub in the last 20 minutes. Ojo was clearly knackered and Jones would have been the obvious replacement.
 
0_0 is a great result, most on here and elsewhere would have took that before a ball was kicked. We haven't came that far that we can disregard a draw away in Europe.
 
Albertzzz said:
Because he knows what he's doing simple as that.

15 qualifying games never been behind I say again 15 qualifiers.....now what's yer point as he's doing great to me.
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Plus the fact he has a sports science team who want players to be able to go the full 90 and the only way to do this? Yes play the full 90!!

The same people complaining or not understanding why a sub isn't made would be shouting their mouth off at Warburton and his 60 minute subs regardless of how a game was going, so it's maybe best to leave the managerial decisions with a qualified manager as frustrating as that is for some on here!!
 
ibrox1975 said:
I agree with that in terms of defenders and midfield but our front 3 could/should have been replaced after 65-70 minutes in my opinion
They had run out of ideas and steam by then
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This is the point everyone is missing. It’s not like anyone is saying a defender could have come off, it was the front players who were knackered and we had quality on the bench. Good result it was just a strange decision when the game had turned on the 70th minute.
 
0-0 isn’t a great result? Absolute nonsense being spouted on here again.

Give me 90 minutes to win at Ibrox against any team to qualify for the group stages any day of the week.

Spartak, Villarreal, Rapid couldn’t beat us at Ibrox - we’ve improved.
 
It’s my one criticism of SG.

Too often his subs are reactive and generally if we’re not losing, changes aren’t made.

Last night was another example of this when most fans could see a change would have helped us stretch the game and go for the win.

Really needs to learn from it and remedy it to take himself and us to the next level.
 
silverbear said:
For all we know we maybe had a game plan based on expected changes Legia would make. If they didn’t materialise then maybe the management team felt no need to change it.
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If they did it didn’t really work. I felt on edge for the last 20 minutes and felt their fresh legs made a difference and we had a couple of guys who looked knackered.
If that is too much of a “criticism” for folk on here to deal with then I give up.
(not including you in that)
 
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tambourineman said:
It is simply not true that "healthy discussion" is shut down "these days".

There are plenty of lengthy threads in both forums. This thread is fourth pages FFS. With plenty of people discussing the substantive point.

People post. Others say that's keech. b.
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Take it how you wish FFS .

But there are those on here who only wish to shut down discussion if they see and form of criticism , however mild that criticism may be .

I'm afraid logic is lost on them because the real "pantie wetters "are those killing the debate.

I see it on thread after thread .
 
Some of the comments on here are aids.
Nothing wrong with suggesting we should have made a few subs earlier.
Also nothing wrong with suggesting we got a draw with what we had.
It's my opinion, nothing more, that Jones should have been on after 70minutes to get at the full back who was booked. Ojo was gubbed and it was clear to see it.
 
Oj
mkgers said:
Ojo was bushed around the 70 minute mark and Jones should've been brought on to stretch their defence. Imo we could've done some damage down the left in the second half if we had Jones on. Don't get me wrong, Ojo had a great first half but just looked knackered in the second half.
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That left back Cafu had just went off as well.
 
RenfrewBear72 said:
Some of the comments on here are aids.
Nothing wrong with suggesting we should have made a few subs earlier.
Also nothing wrong with suggesting we got a draw with what we had.
It's my opinion, nothing more, that Jones should have been on after 70minutes to get at the full back who was booked. Ojo was gubbed and it was clear to see it.
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Think that's the crux, Ojo was blowing out of his arse with 20 minutes to go .

It looked an obvious change to make , he had been our out ball for most of the game up to that point.

He had been making runs and carrying us 60-70 yds up the park .

We also lost his defensive side of the game and at one point they got in because he lost the runner.

Jones for Ojo restores the equilibrium .

That said , it's not a lot more than a point for discussion , the Gaffer and his staff will know why they decided not to go that way.
 
Watching the game, I was desperate for Ojo to be subbed as he was blowing out his hole but in hindisght I would say the Manager got it right. We kept our shape and disciplne right up to the end.
 
BODiE said:
With that full back on a booking and Jordan Jones direct running he should have been on attacking the full back
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Personally I'd have made the same change.
But if Jones comes on. Hits it by the full back and goes on a run, loses it and is 10 yards behind the play and they go up and score, the manager gets it tight. We drew 0-0 and had the best chances so SGs game plan worked. So I personally can't criticise him.
 
I was screaming for a change from 70 minutes to give us an out ball, Jones for Ojo was the obvious one. Would be interesting to hear Gerrards view on it. Maybe a scottish football journalist will ask him?
 
While I was also shouting for Jones to replace Ojo, thinking back on it, if he comes on with fresh legs and pace, eager to make his mark on the game, he could have overcommited, high up the park, with no one to support him as everyone else was a bit leggy, leaving us short and open to the counter.

We can all shout at the TV and overanalyse decisions made in the heat of battle, but at the end of the day, SG is the one entrusted with the job and would have been slated had a mistake been made and we lost a late goal.
In the end, we came away with a very credible result and a great chance at progressing.

IMO, I think he still has the Motherwell game at the back of his mind with bringing Wallace on with seconds to go and losing the late equaliser.
 
mr magoo loyal said:
Plus the fact he has a sports science team who want players to be able to go the full 90 and the only way to do this? Yes play the full 90!!

The same people complaining or not understanding why a sub isn't made would be shouting their mouth off at Warburton and his 60 minute subs regardless of how a game was going, so it's maybe best to leave the managerial decisions with a qualified manager as frustrating as that is for some on here!!
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Think that's a bit generic and lazy thinking mate.
 
Ojo looked knackered after 60 minutes...can't for the life of me understand why Jones (who has been excellent) wasn't brought on to run at their right back who was already on a booking.

Not having this 'it's hard to get up to speed' patter. Subs come on in bigger games than this every other week and manage fine.

Ojo was dead on his feet and struggling to track back at points.
 
Have a nagging feeling that an away goal was there to be had last night. I still don't see the harm in putting a fresh Jones on for the last 20 minutes to have a go at their right back who was on a booking.

The manager is always telling the players to be brave. I think he and his staff could've been a bit braver in the latter part of the game last night. An away goal makes the second leg slightly more comfortable. I don't like the idea of us having to empty the tanks just a few days before a massive game against the scum.

I know I'm probably not allowed to think that because I've never won the Champions League and not a top level coach, but the feeling lingers nonetheless.
 
I think we let them off the hook last 10/15 minutes. Realistically we were responsive to keeping our defensive shape as they were showing flashes of breaking through.
But losing an away goal would have been a terrible result for them, If we had brought on Defoe/Jones on say 70 minutes and stretched the game, we would have forced Legia to react to us, by either going more defensive, or by leaving space for us to break into with fresh legs. I thought the same as many, that Ojo had run his match on about 70 minutes, i also thought Davis and Arfield were showing signs of fatigue aswell.
I like Gerrard. I think a draw isnt a terrible result. But an away goal would have been ideal for setting up the tie at Ibrox. Sometimes you need to roll the dice. If we had lost 1-0, and the gaffer had subbed Ojo on 70 minutes, would anyone really be blaming that?
 
sirstevefleming said:
Playing to a game plan which the manager trusted players to carry out - which they did. Job done
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I think he wanted to retain possession as much as possible. Which was why we seen Kamara on and Ojo remain on.

I was screaming to get Jones on as well but I can see why they may not have wanted to in hindsight.
 
Chris01 said:
0-0 isn’t a great result? Absolute nonsense being spouted on here again.

Give me 90 minutes to win at Ibrox against any team to qualify for the group stages any day of the week.

Spartak, Villarreal, Rapid couldn’t beat us at Ibrox - we’ve improved.
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Hey! Don't you make sensible posts here.
 
Why are people slagging others off for saying we should've made subs?

Are people not allowed to have opinions or is Gerrard above criticism?

A blind man could see Ojo was knackered and for the first time in years we actually have strength and depth on the bench.

Don't have to be Mourinho to work out that he should've been taken off.
 
0-0 away from Europe is now a poor result away from Europe,couldn't make it up. Against a team from gibralter,yes but against a polish team,borders on arrogance.
 
Renfrew@UKGB&NI said:
0-0 away from Europe is now a poor result away from Europe,couldn't make it up. Against a team from gibralter,yes but against a polish team,borders on arrogance.
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I've not noticed anyone posting 0-0 away from home was a poor result. Where did you see that?
 
dt17 said:
Why are people slagging others off for saying we should've made subs?

Are people not allowed to have opinions or is Gerrard above criticism?

A blind man could see Ojo was knackered and for the first time in years we actually have strength and depth on the bench.

Don't have to be Mourinho to work out that he should've been taken off.
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Exactly mate. I started this thread as I thought it was a talking point. As said earlier exactly the same as the guys on the heart and hand post match pod thought it was worthy of mention.

Doesn't mean I think I know better than the manager or I think 0-0 was a poor result.
 
It cost us in games last season, almost did at Killie already this season, and will cost us again if it’s not addressed.

That’s got nothing to do with thinking 0-0 is a good result or not. The game was turning 70 mins onwards but shagger and good defending kept us in it. We have seen games run away from us in the past year until changes are made far too late.
 
The reason why I sit on my arse watching Rangers from the stand or sofa is because, no matter how much I love my club or think I know about football, I essentially know %^*& all about the game as its played at the highest professional level. Steven Gerrard, on the other hand, has played and been coached, and is now managing, at the highest level. I think I'll leave decisions about the team formation, tactics and substitutions to him.
 
Tpol_rfc said:
I don't understand it at all. Maybe last season when the bench wasn't so strong it could have been the reason. However this season he's said we need two players for every position and we now have that.

Surely a fresh player who we are told he trusts could be given at least 20 minutes in place of someone who had been giving it everything for over an hour.

*not having a go at Gerrard or anything but think it's worth discussing.
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It's a difficult call, think how often you see a player come on and they seem to disappear because for what ever reason they don't fit into the game. On the other hand you see players come on and turn a game round. Do you play with what's working away in Europe or make the change. That' the call SG gets paid to make and long may he be making the decisions.
 
ThorntonMM said:
Because the game was there to be won.
0-0 is NOT a great away result.

Since when have supporters not been entitled to have an opinion?
I don't see anyone on here slating Gerrard. I only see some posters saying they would have liked to see him make a sub in the last 20 minutes. Ojo was clearly knackered and Jones would have been the obvious replacement.
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I respectfully disagree, how's it not?
 
dt17 said:
Because not scoring away from home means that the return tie is a cup final where the opponent's goals count as double.
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How would you describe going over there & getting that result?

And what if this Jones for Ojo sub upset the balance of the team & they score? The thread title would be very different.
 
Kirbys House said:
How would you describe going over there & getting that result?

And what if this Jones for Ojo sub upset the balance of the team & they score? The thread title would be very different.
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I think not scoring there could turn out to be fatal for us tbh, especially if they score first at Ibrox.

Also, your second point is nonsense. If that's the case why even have subs at all?

Ojo was struggling big time, in fact we nearly conceded because he could no longer track his man. Not only that but he couldn't get past the right back anymore because he didn't have the energy. Gerrard also shifted him out right so...
 
For what it's worth, by the time the clock ticked into 70 minutes I thought the chance of us nicking an away goal were slim and making a change might have disrupted our defensive shape or allowed them to stop double marking Ojo and get more players forward.
 
Tpol_rfc said:
I don't understand it at all. Maybe last season when the bench wasn't so strong it could have been the reason. However this season he's said we need two players for every position and we now have that.

Surely a fresh player who we are told he trusts could be given at least 20 minutes in place of someone who had been giving it everything for over an hour.

*not having a go at Gerrard or anything but think it's worth discussing.
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You either trust our manager or you don’t, I’m in the trust camp unlike yourself.
 
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