McInnes - for and against

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The backroom team is ill-advised. It will count against him at the first hint of anything going wrong.

You’re probably not wrong, but you can understand why he’d want them.

He’s comfortable with them, feels he can rely on them (although this may be tested to the full now given an apparent conflict of interest for one or two of them) and clearly sees them as integral to his success at Pittodrie.
 
Unless Walter was going to come back I've always thought McInnes was the best of the 'Scottish type' managers who would look to get the team well organised, difficult to beat etc....

I was against us appointing a 'Scottish type' manager because Scottish fitba is sh!te, remains in the dark ages and I want us to be ahead of the curve in adopting modern coaching techniques, tactics and have a technical ability in players that is comparable to those in European teams. I still think that should be our ultimate goal as it's the only way we'll ever be able to compete in Europe.

However I no longer think it's possible for us to get there in a single step, we don't have the finances to give to a manager to allow us to spend our way there. I thought it could have been done without having to spend a fortune and had high hopes for Warburton but we know how that turned out. I think we have to look to be genuinely competing for league and cups then when we've achieved that we can look to try to progress in Europe and change the style of football. I think McInnes will get us competing domestically but I don't think he's going to progress us in terms of youth development, player technique etc but if it has to be a two stage process I can live with that.

I think he's the right man for the job at this particular time, he should probably have got it before PC. His record against them is p!sh but brenda's record in Europe is p!sh but held up as a messiah, it's all about resources. If he can squeeze as much out of our resources as he has done at aberdeen then we'll be in decent shape.
I want a team that will win the title not just hard to beat... I'd love mcinnes to do that but I just can't see it...
 
i think the 'pros' are pretty much spot on.

the only 'con' with any credence for me is the fact that he didn't manage to outwit the tims in any meaningful way during our journey (not win the league which is unrealistic, but at least beat them in a big cup game).

here's hoping he gets the winning big games mentality right for us.
 
Anyone that uses the term 'Espanyolification' should not only be automatically banned for life but their IP address too in case they try to creep back on the board.
 
It seems we’re paying for the Board’s idiotic selection and investment in Pedro. It’s that simple. I would’ve assumed they may have paid for their own mistake by ‘catching up’ on the plan and hired someone akin to Rodgers, particularly when they’re all still in situ.
 
For
Decent win rate at Aberdeen; had them as 'second force' albeit mainly without us in league; knows club and played for us; is young enough to learn; is maybe right man for where we are now - behind schedule in where we want to be. Maybe he can establish us as 'second force' and banish the banter years for good; is available and would come.

Against

Win rate lower than Warburton; one trophy in whole time we were on 'the journey'; no track record re youth development; poor European qualifying (we can talk, ha!); dubious mentally challenged back room team; HUGE outlay for us to get his services; not very exciting brand of football; failed at last 'big job' although club was badly run it seems; sent to bitch school by our U20 coach.

My assumption is that the board feel he can get us where they feel we should already be, i.e. he is to undo the problems created by late period MW and all of Pedro. I'm not very enthused (am I ever?) but can see some sense in it...sobering that we couldn't get a single affordable option in 6 weeks. We are very much at a low ebb in terms of budgets and maybe it's time for me and others to realign our ambition, temporarily at least.

What do you think?
Does the win rate v Warburton include the championship ? If so it’s a fallacious argument.
Why not bin this thread and get behind the guy?
 
You’re probably not wrong, but you can understand why he’d want them.

He’s comfortable with them, feels he can rely on them (although this may be tested to the full now given an apparent conflict of interest for one or two of them) and clearly sees them as integral to his success at Pittodrie.

To an extent, yes. But McInnes is not wet behind the ears. I would have hoped he would be more understanding of our situation and how it would be perceived.
 
My main worry is that he will want to cherry pick players from Aberdeeen and the whole squad will go through another period of upheaval.
 
My main worry is that he will want to cherry pick players from Aberdeeen and the whole squad will go through another period of upheaval.
This is the thing. When you go into a cycle of changing a manager after short periods of time there then follows another 'transition period' and player turnover rises again. But we simply don't have the money to keep doing this.

That transition period then allows for a 'settling in period' and a 'gelling period'. We haven't got that luxury. All the time, the mentally challengeds keep going along winning stuff.
 
Do we really want to be established as the "second force"? This appointment reeks of that.

Hard to aim higher at the moment but no, we should NEVER have that as a clearly stated aim.

My own hope is that as time goes by DoF and his team take more to do with recruitment so we don't have upheaval with every change in manager...we need to build and build and not rely on a first team coach wanting 5-8 new players every window.
 
For
Decent win rate at Aberdeen; had them as 'second force' albeit mainly without us in league; knows club and played for us; is young enough to learn; is maybe right man for where we are now - behind schedule in where we want to be. Maybe he can establish us as 'second force' and banish the banter years for good; is available and would come.
Possibly bringing with him a very decent coach by all accounts!

Against

Win rate lower than Warburton; one trophy in whole time we were on 'the journey'; no track record re youth development; poor European qualifying (we can talk, ha!); dubious mentally challenged back room team; HUGE outlay for us to get his services; not very exciting brand of football; failed at last 'big job' although club was badly run it seems; sent to bitch school by our U20 coach.
Possibly bringing a coach who aparently is a rhabid 19th Century Terrorist, whether he's rhabid or not I'd rather not have any fans of Bheast FC on the Rangers Management Team

My assumption is that the board feel he can get us where they feel we should already be, i.e. he is to undo the problems created by late period MW and all of Pedro. I'm not very enthused (am I ever?) but can see some sense in it...sobering that we couldn't get a single affordable option in 6 weeks. We are very much at a low ebb in terms of budgets and maybe it's time for me and others to realign our ambition, temporarily at least.

What do you think?

I've added a couple of comments to the above, hope you don't mind! ;)

I hate David Murray with a passion for many many reasons, but one thing about him was he often got the deal done before anyone knew what was happening.
If only we were in a position to do that these days!
AND NO, I don't ever want to go back to the David Moonbeams Murray era.

As for McInnes, I'm totally underwhelmed with his appointment, but I really hope he succeeds, we need him to be a success and win #55 within the next couple of years, because 10 in a row will be hell to live with.
 
6 weeks for this !!

A new manager should have us all excited and there should be a big sense of anticipation and a buzz around the place. We have none of that because our board have fannied around and gone for the lazy option we all knew they would the second Pedro was sacked. It;s just all boring now and a all a bit "meh". They have created this disappointed atmosphere.

I don't want McInnes but I don't blame him for all this mess. The board have shown lack of leadership, strength and ambition. They are the ones we need to question.
What a moaning you do mate, would put tits on a worm. Sad thing is i agree with every word of that.

I didn't want McInnes but if it is to be him, and yeah, looks like it, then he will have my full backing.
 
It's a lazy, uninspiring, unimaginative, parochial appointment.

Questions have to be asked of this board and how far they can take this club with such low levels of investment which just keep us 'ticking over'. This can't go on much longer. mentally challengeds will continue to sweep the boards - and then where will the fan's patience be ??!

Espanyolification has landed.

You wanted Giggs or Gerard.

Case closed.
 
What a moaning you do mate, would put tits on a worm. Sad thing is i agree with every word of that.

I didn't want McInnes but if it is to be him, and yeah, looks like it, then he will have my full backing.
My moaning can be translated as "concern" mate ;)

Concern for the direction we are heading and concern for the 'leadership' we are under and the decisions they are making on and off he pitch.
 
It's a lazy, uninspiring, unimaginative, parochial appointment.

Questions have to be asked of this board and how far they can take this club with such low levels of investment which just keep us 'ticking over'. This can't go on much longer. mentally challengeds will continue to sweep the boards - and then where will the fan's patience be ??!

Espanyolification has landed.

I admit I laughed when the phrase Espanyolification was first coined.

I was wrong. Its here now.
 
Its time to end pish like this, McInnes is going to be the new Manager, time to get behind him.
 
As stated it's a fan discussion board. If discussion was not encouraged big Mark should bin the whole thing.
Given he is clearly our next manager debating the pros and cons of him coming is as relevant as an analysis of the pros and cons of Scot Symon.
It’s time to move on.
 
Its strange, anytime a former player or bear is touted for the Rangers job its always said they should ‘go and learn their trade’ elsewhere, get experience so they are not taking the Rangers job as novices.

Here we have a guy who has done that, and been a relevant success in each job, yes even the Bristol City job where he took over them at the bottom of the league, stopped them being relegated then struggled when they cut their budget even further.

By all accounts McInnes is a very good man manager, I honestly believe that man management is more important than tactics in Scottish football, where generally the team most ‘up for it’ can win the match the majority of the time.

Finishing above us and getting to two cup finals (both lost to a once in a generation Celtic side) last season should be enough for Bears to give him a chance to prove himself with better players and resources, but some, you can already tell, are so egotistical they will be desperate to be proven right.
 
I'm not thrilled but I don't doubt he will do his best.

Like MW and PC not sure his best will take us very far. Big question mark for me is can he pull out of our current squad the kind of performances we just witnessed on a consistent basis. Time will tell.

Not too excited about the type of player he'll bring in. I imagine we become a very physical and direct side once he's had a transfer market or two.

However, maybe that's what we need right now, versus a manager with dreams of a fluid attacking style but in too tough of an environment to pull it off....
 
To an extent, yes. But McInnes is not wet behind the ears. I would have hoped he would be more understanding of our situation and how it would be perceived.

I’d like to think he’s more than aware of the situation, but has decided to shoulder the responsibility - on his head be it, if you like.
 
And, to be honest, as far as opinions go, its absolutely barking mental.
Not in my mind it isn't. Huge lift for everyone - players would be massively motivated by being managed by 2 icons of the game. Players would be more attracted to come to the club, even on loan. Would be a buzz of excitement round the place. Fans would be excited.

Sometimes an appointment is more psychological and the impact from that can be more powerful.
 
Not in my mind it isn't. Huge lift for everyone - players would be massively motivated by being managed by 2 icons of the game. Players would be more attracted to come to the club, even on loan. Would be a buzz of excitement round the place. Fans would be excited.

Sometimes an appointment is more psychological and the impact from that can be more powerful.

If they were coming as players ala Souness then maybe, aye, but they wouldn’t be. Plus Giggs pumped his brothers Mrs for years, he’s a cretin.
 
  • Took over an Aberdeen side going nowhere and made them 2nd best in Scotland.
  • Won a trophy.
  • Made cup finals - expected to lose to the bheggars.
  • Took on a side, improved them, added more faces, seen numerous leave - rebuilt and hit the ground running.
  • Improved a number of players: Jack, McGinn, Hayes, Rooney, Shinnie, McLean...
  • Spoken highly of from current and ex players.
  • A presence about him, not a joke figure.
  • Good man management skills.
  • European experience.
  • Worked with a small budget.
  • Work and foundations laid with St. Johnstone.
  • Ability to come back from poor results.
  • Took Aberdeen on winning runs on a number of times through out a season.
  • A good win % with Aberdeen.
  • Wins football matches.

We can list the negatives but name a manager who doesn't have a list of them. Lost the bigger games; I'd expect us and the bheggars to beat Aberseens 9 times out of 10.

Bristol City. I'm not too clued up on that reign.

I wouldn't bash him for the job he's done in Europe. Just look at the bheggars.

He seems to be quite cautious and doesn't learn from his mistakes - maybe that's because he's at a smaller ckub without the resources.
 
If they were coming as players ala Souness then maybe, aye, but they wouldn’t be. Plus Giggs pumped his brothers Mrs for years, he’s a cretin.
Gerrard impresses me more and more these days. It's hypothetical, as it's never happening, but I'd have taken Gerrard if it had ever been a genuine possibility. No doubt about it.
 
I've never once watched dolly under dm & thought this is what we need - he may have had a better organised team than us on a couple of occassions but that really is the sum total of the positives I can credit him with - an absolute disasterous appointment IMHO - but of course - sincerely hope I'm proved wrong
 
I want a team that will win the title not just hard to beat... I'd love mcinnes to do that but I just can't see it...

If we had won all our games apart from the mhanky mob, for argument's sake, we'd be 8 points clear at the top of the league. I get that it's all ifs and buts however there's no denying that us winning games we should be 'expected' to win and consistently playing to the best of our abilities would have a significant impact on how competitive we'd be.
 
My take because he will get a 3 and 1/2 yr contract is, he will have that time to stabilise the club and make it the undisputed second force. At the same time allow the board to see if he has it in him to overtake "Them" back to the top. If not contract ends before 10 in a row the board get a top class manager regardless of cost and give him all the money that he wants to prevent them breaking the record.

So i think it is a calculated risk by the board without to much expectations but hoping to be surprised. It is where we are at this time. He will get my 100% backing regardless.
 
It's a little odd that we're asked to believe in a manager that the Board didn't believe in only 8 months ago. The past 6 weeks also suggest the Board aren't fully convinced this time around either - we've just been unable to interest a better candidate.

It's not as though DM has done anything significant in the intervening time. Indeed, he's lost 3 out of 4 to us. Now we're set to pay out compensation and offer a 3 year contract. It's little surprise there are concerns.

For all that, I thought McInnes should have been appointed in March and I think/hope he'll do a decent job.
 
I find a lot of the comments on here ridiculous particularly about our Board. The main RIFC Board who are the final decision makers are all successful business men in their own right. They have rescued our Club from the position where we were dying without salvation. They have put in millions of their hard earned cash in to the Club's bank account with little or no chance of them getting it back just to keep us going before and after getting rid of Whyte, Green Ashley et al.
They have taken their time with this appointment quite rightly and without any doubt will have taken advice from seasoned football professionals and Bluenoses like Walter. I have looked roughly 20 times every day at FF and there have been virtually no sensible, informed suggestions about who we should get as Manager. They have looked far and wide and invited applications in case they were overlooking someone.
Perhaps someone could tell us how else they might actually have gone about it. They want a successful Club on and if the park at least as much as and probably more than most as shown by their financial commitment. We should forever be grateful to them.
WATP
 
Gerrard impresses me more and more these days. It's hypothetical, as it's never happening, but I'd have taken Gerrard if it had ever been a genuine possibility. No doubt about it.


Impresses you with what exactly?

And don't say how he comes across on TV, i mean what about his managerial achievements would make him a good for the Rangers manager?
 
I must admit to hoping that the backroom staff issue and compensation required kill this ill fated hire in its tracks.

The reality is that the cons far outweigh the pros where DM is concerned and at 46 I don’t think DM is going to blossom into the progressive, developmental, big game winning manager required by Rangers at this juncture.

Sadly this smacks of the Dave Kings lack of imagination and creativity not to mention his abandonment of his DOF’s strategy for the club in favour of a plodding second place behind Celtc. Murty bought them time last week to have a proper rethink about the rest of the season and perhaps waiting until a more suitable candidate became available.

Morale was high and the team seems to be gelling, how will the players react to a guy who was totally out coached by Murty and who’s big match record is in general pretty dire? Will they see McInnes as a guy who can inspire them to beat Celtc, because even if he delivers wins against the cannon fodder it means nothing if we don’t win the big games.

How could they have watched McInnes unravel under the pressure of not even having been officially approached re the job.In fact he and his team became diminished at the mere speculation that he might be a candidate and given the pressure of being Rangers manager immediately make an official approach.

Horrendous decision making, if he lacks many of the qualities laid out by the DOF, fails in big games and cracks under pressure. How in the name of the wee man is a good fit for a job which requires the antithesis?
 
For a lot of posters, it seems that McInnes’ biggest draw back is that he isn’t Brendan Rodgers.

It’s weird to see folk so down about that.
 
not the man for me. but people saying i will back him 100% if he is the new manager. i support the club 100% all the time. no matter who is the manager because managers come and go. he play for us and handle the pressure of playing for us. but the pressure of being the manager will be completely different from being a player. he could do a great job for us but how long will he get if things go wrong. in my opinion he should get the same treatment as all the recent managers who have been in the job. does not matter if he is one of us or not.
 
You can't compare his win rate with MW.

It's a bit late in his tenure at the Sheep but one of their youngsters scored against us on Sunday and there was at least 1 other academy prospect of theirs played as well.

It's not an 'exciting' appointment and I doubt he will take us to the title. However, right now it is all about stability and consolidation. We need a Manager who will see out at least the next 2 and a half years. McInnes will see us improve, will see us 'secure' in second place over this season and next and he will then get just a single, realistic, tilt at the title before being moved on for a 'name' as the Dhims approach TIAR and as we, finally, get back on a stable financial footing.

That's not a great scenario, but I think whoever we brought in, be it FdB, Preud'homme, Ten Haag et al, the situation - because of our finances - would have been much the same.
 
I must admit to hoping that the backroom staff issue and compensation required kill this ill fated hire in its tracks.

The reality is that the cons far outweigh the pros where DM is concerned and at 46 I don’t think DM is going to blossom into the progressive, developmental, big game winning manager required by Rangers at this juncture.

Sadly this smacks of the Dave Kings lack of imagination and creativity not to mention his abandonment of his DOF’s strategy for the club in favour of a plodding second place behind Celtc. Murty bought them time last week to have a proper rethink about the rest of the season and perhaps waiting until a more suitable candidate became available.

Morale was high and the team seems to be gelling, how will the players react to a guy who was totally out coached by Murty and who’s big match record is in general pretty dire? Will they see McInnes as a guy who can inspire them to beat Celtc, because even if he delivers wins against the cannon fodder it means nothing if we don’t win the games.

How could they have watched McInnes unravel under the pressure of not even having been officially approached re the job.In fact he and his team became diminished at the mere speculation that he might be a candidate and given the pressure of being Rangers manager immediately make an official approach.

Horrendous decision making, if he lacks many of the qualities laid out by the DOF, fails in big games and cracks under pressure. How in the name of the wee man is a good fit for a job which requires the antithesis?
Very well constructed post and great articulation.

Agree with every word.
 
Why do you say that?

He has been at Aberdeen 5 years and knows the Scottish game, hopefully he brings in Moult and others in Jan, boosts the squad and cut the gap on the poets.
Ok he is not the man I hoped we would get, I was hoping for Allardyce but we couldn't afford him and that ship has sailed
 
Its strange, anytime a former player or bear is touted for the Rangers job its always said they should ‘go and learn their trade’ elsewhere, get experience so they are not taking the Rangers job as novices.

Here we have a guy who has done that, and been a relevant success in each job, yes even the Bristol City job where he took over them at the bottom of the league, stopped them being relegated then struggled when they cut their budget even further.

By all accounts McInnes is a very good man manager, I honestly believe that man management is more important than tactics in Scottish football, where generally the team most ‘up for it’ can win the match the majority of the time.

Finishing above us and getting to two cup finals (both lost to a once in a generation Celtic side) last season should be enough for Bears to give him a chance to prove himself with better players and resources, but some, you can already tell, are so egotistical they will be desperate to be proven right.

I agree with this.

Some people want to hire a Formula One driver (we can't afford) to win a Stock Car Race.

My only issue with McInnes is the length of time it has taken to appoint him.

He is the right man for the position we are in and absolutely should have been appointed instead of Pedro, which was a fit of madness we'll still be scratching our heads over in 50 years time.
 
I agree with the OP particularly the last paragraph.

I am in the "underwhelmed" camp but can see the logic particularly in terms of Dave King's post AGM statements about 3 years until club is self sustaining and I think that's what this appointment is all about.

In simple terms manager job profile for this appointment is pretty much: -

1: Recover ground lost under Pedro ( which in terms of league position isn't that much)

2: European qualification and progress to group stages

3: If you do well you get another 3 years if not club better placed to go for a "sexier" appointment.

Understandable choice if a perhaps a bit safe and uninspiring.
 
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