Messi

[Sir Walter]

I knew this would pop up again

For me, Messi has proven for over a decade now that he’s the superior player.

2 games in a World Cup doesn’t change that. For those saying he was pish and that Ronaldo drags Portugal, it’s worth remembering that Messi’s hatrick in the qualifiers was the definition of dragging your country to a World Cup

Argentina have a world class forwards area but other than that, are fairly average.

Ronaldo has done superb for Portugal but although Portugal aren’t great, they’re a proper sturdy organised team.

Messi has done it consistently and has broken all sorts of record year after year. His passing, dribbling, free kicks etc are all in a different league to Ronaldo.

The only department Ronaldo is better is in the air and at penalties.

Messi is in a league of his own and a poor World Cup with a shit Argentina team won’t change that

 

[StokeyBear]

As said earlier on in the thread there was a period of 2 maybe 3 years when Messi was better but in recent years Ronaldo has surpassed him as the worlds best player.

Messi 100% needs a new challenge but I don't think he has the bawz to leave Barcelona.

 

[The Ultimate Warrior]

The rewerite of Argentina as some shower of shit is brilliant.

Portugal have Jose Fonte and the back and a guy who - while us - plays in Scotland on the bench...guys at Roma, PSG and Man U don't get picked for Argentina in DEFENCE and MIDFIELD.

This is not some unknown collective of players.

 

[StokeyBear]

The rewerite of Argentina as some shower of shit is brilliant.

Portugal have Jose Fonte and the back and a guy who - while us - plays in Scotland on the bench...guys at Roma, PSG and Man U don't get picked for Argentina.

Anything to protect the golden boy eh.

 

[gersrus71]

No he wasn't. He played for LA Galaxy

For 1 season at the end of his career
We all know he was mr Liverpool and pretty much a one club man.
So by your Logic then Iniesta isn’t a one club man either, even though we know he is just off to top up his pension.

Messi could still to what Stevie G did and bugger of to the states for a year.
Will that then mean he isn’t a one club man and can then be considered one of the best?

 

[The Predator]

Love a Messi Ronaldo FF debate

 

[Arminius]

Love a Messi Ronaldo FF debate

They're hilarious

Especially when Ronaldo is clearly the better player

 

[90minsofmadness]

This is it for me. I admire Ronaldo and really like him as a person. I think he's a much

The rewerite of Argentina as some shower of shit is brilliant.

Portugal have Jose Fonte and the back and a guy who - while us - plays in Scotland on the bench...guys at Roma, PSG and Man U don't get picked for Argentina in DEFENCE and MIDFIELD.

This is not some unknown collective of players.

Did you not watch last night performance? Or any of the qualifying.

Whether or not theres ability at the back they are not set up properly to utilise it.

Looking at Portugal there isn't individuals playing at the same level but they play packed and as a unit.

 

[The Ultimate Warrior]

This is it for me. I admire Ronaldo and really like him as a person. I think he's a much



Did you not watch last night performance? Or any of the qualifying.

Whether or not theres ability at the back they are not set up properly to utilise it.

Looking at Portugal there isn't individuals playing at the same level but they play packed and as a unit.

I dont think either country is that great as such...as a collective of players though Argentina are far better than Portugal

 

[BunkMoreland]

There is not an argument for the best. There hasnt been for a long time. Ronaldo is probably the best goalscorer the world has ever seen, but thats it.

Messi is just a level above.

 

[rfcforever]

Not very scientific, but I just re-watched the highlights of last night. Highlights by definition should be a collection of the best moments in a match. You would expect a great player to produce at least one such moment (Modric had 2 - sublime cross wasted then his goal). Messi produced no highlight moment.

I think it might be time to insert the word "was" into any sentence including "Messi" and "great player".

 

[Oxymoron]

If I could sign one of them for Rangers in their prime I'd take Ronaldo. An absolute machine.

 

[omegaman]

Not very scientific, but I just re-watched the highlights of last night. Highlights by definition should be a collection of the best moments in a match. You would expect a great player to produce at least one such moment (Modric had 2 - sublime cross wasted then his goal). Messi produced no highlight moment.

You’re spot on.

The World Cup is supposed to be the very pinnacle of a footballer’s career: to win it is surely still the dream of every player?

It’s supposed to be a celebration of all that is great about the game and in that respect we look forward to the prospect of the best players in the world all competing together and against one another.

It’s the moment when the best players need to stand up and be counted.

Ronaldo has done that so far, Modric did last night, but Messi has been posted missing.

It’s disappointing because it would be a richer spectacle if the likes of Messi, Neymar, Pogba, Salah, etc could have also demonstrated why they’re so highly thought of too.

 

[M A R T I N]

He's been awful this world cup. I think he'll retire from international football after it.

 

[Robbie Wilson]

Not going to bother wading into the highly original Messi vs Ronaldo debate. Nothing more tedious in football.

But how can Maradona be classed in the same league as either? Seems like pure nostalgia to me. Whoever you think is better, Messi and Ronaldo are the two greatest of all time. It seems insane to even dispute that. By almost every objective measure they are so far beyond the pack.

U sir are talking through ur arse!!
Both of them couldn't get near Maradona, the 2 of them wouldn't have lived in that era against Italian & German hatchet men.
Deary Deary Me I've seen them ALL!!!

 

[StokeyBear]

There is not an argument for the best. There hasnt been for a long time. Ronaldo is probably the best goalscorer the world has ever seen, but thats it.

Messi is just a level above.

Laughable.

Ronaldo has won 4 out of the past 5 Ballon d'or's - Your statement would actually work better if it was in Ronaldo's favour

Looks like he'll be winning it again this year as well.

 

[dt17]

Not very scientific, but I just re-watched the highlights of last night. Highlights by definition should be a collection of the best moments in a match. You would expect a great player to produce at least one such moment (Modric had 2 - sublime cross wasted then his goal). Messi produced no highlight moment.

I think it might be time to insert the word "was" into any sentence including "Messi" and "great player".

Aye yer right, Messi's a has been...

We'll just forget about the season he's just had in Spain where he has the most goals and assists across Europe...pure shite so he is!

There's a video doing the rounds of Messi during the national anthems last night and he didn't look as though his head was in the game at all.

 

[CoatbridgeBear]

Guy on talksport last night after the Argentina game being deadly serious and calling Messi a fraud was unbelievably funny. The hosts started playing laughing clips everytime he spoke they were having the Ronaldo or Messi debate and the caller obviously said Ronaldo but to straight face call Messi a fraud and say he had been found out I thought was crazy. Guy was called a tool and they took the next call haha

 

[rfcforever]

Aye yer right, Messi's a has been...

We'll just forget about the season he's just had in Spain where he has the most goals and assists across Europe...pure shite so he is!

There's a video doing the rounds of Messi during the national anthems last night and he didn't look as though his head was in the game at all.

Messi was a great player, now he is an extremely good player in an extremely good team (Barca). The part of your post I have highlighted pretty much agrees with me.

 

[hammer17]

They're hilarious

Especially when Ronaldo is clearly the better player

Not when so many disagree with your opinion

so far from clear.

 

[Macdonsj]

Messi's form issues with Argentina are largely down to Argentina

There looks like a concerted effort of the rest of the squad to be seen to not be relying on one player
Problem is - the majority of them are not good enough

It would be like Portugal with Ronaldo, Denmark with Erikssen, Egypt with Salah - trying to prove a point by not focussing on their chief talent

Argentina should be setting up to compliment Messi and look to utilise him at every opportunity

 

[dt17]

Messi was a great player, now he is an extremely good player in an extremely good team (Barca). The part of your post I have highlighted pretty much agrees with me.

You're writing him off because he's had a couple of poor games.

If that was the case then care to explain Ronaldo's start to the season? He'd done bugger all for a few months...

 

[Sam English]

The Messi v Ronaldo debate is becoming a daily occurrence on here.

 

[rfcforever]

You're writing him off because he's had a couple of poor games.

If that was the case then care to explain Ronaldo's start to the season? He'd done bugger all for a few months...

Thread title is Messi. I don't feel that I need to explain Ronaldo's start to a season that is currently finishing when discussing Messi, although the thread does appear to have become Messi vs Ronaldo.

Last night's game needed a great player to take it by the scruff of the neck. That great player was Modric. Ronaldo wasn't playing last night. Messi did f*ck all in the game, as your comment about his head not being in it backs up. On the current evidence, where greatness should come to the fore it is not happening for the man.

When the greatest players to have played the game are listed Messi will be in that list, and very near to the top. I am sure that when he gets back to Barca he will have another fantastic season. That does not mean that he has not been a fantastic disappointment in this world cup. I truly hope that he shines against Nigeria and we see the sort of football from him that he has been capable of during the past decade.

You used the terms "has been" and "written off". I didn't

 

[TPB90]

Ronaldo is the better finisher without a doubt but overall there is surely no debate as to who is the better player? Messi by a distance.

 

[Jacrispy]

Just read a stat that he received the fewest passes of any player last night. The only sensible thing Lawrenson said all night was at the end, “you can’t do anything without the ball”.

It’s amazing how 180 minutes can allegedly define or completely reshape your legacy, especially in a team sport with 10 other players alongside you.

 

[Jacrispy]

Ronaldo is the better finisher without a doubt but overall there is surely no debate as to who is the better player? Messi by a distance.

Statistically speaking, Ronaldo isn’t even a better finisher, he needs a lot more attempts at goal to get his goals. Messi is more accurate.

Not in this tournant though clearly.

 

[Macdonsj]

Just read a stat that he received the fewest passes of any player last night. The only sensible thing Lawrenson said all night was at the end, “you can’t do anything without the ball”.

It’s amazing how 180 minutes can allegedly define or completely reshape your legacy, especially in a team sport with 10 other players alongside you.

that sums up my point
Argentina seemed more keen to give the ball to the absolute dud that is Meza

 

[StokeyBear]

Ronaldo is the better finisher without a doubt but overall there is surely no debate as to who is the better player? Messi by a distance.

Ronaldo has 4 of the last 5 Ballon d'or's and looks as if he will win it again this year.

I'm not sure how you have came to the conclusion that there is "surely no debate".

 

[omegaman]

Just read a stat that he received the fewest passes of any player last night. The only sensible thing Lawrenson said all night was at the end, “you can’t do anything without the ball”.

I thought it curious that Messi didn’t really drop deeper to take the ball off the midfielders and defenderse as the game progressed.

I know he doesn’t necessarily do this for Barcelona, because they have excellent midfielders that allow him to play further forward, but he’s the captain and the talisman and I was expecting him to roll his sleeves up and start making things happen, especially after Croatia took the lead, but there wasn’t any sign of that, almost as if he’d given up the ghost.

 

[dt17]

Just read a stat that he received the fewest passes of any player last night. The only sensible thing Lawrenson said all night was at the end, “you can’t do anything without the ball”.

It’s amazing how 180 minutes can allegedly define or completely reshape your legacy, especially in a team sport with 10 other players alongside you.

I wonder if there's been trouble in the camp?

Against Iceland every player in the Argentina team were constantly looking for Messi and giving it to him no matter what. Last night he barely got a sniff of it and I don't think it's because Croatia were that great defensively.

Wouldn't be surprised if he retired from international duty again.

Aguero was having a go at the manager yesterday as well.

 

[Jacrispy]

I thought it curious that Messi didn’t really drop deeper to take the ball off the midfielders and defenderse as the game progressed.

I know he doesn’t necessarily do this for Barcelona, because they have excellent midfielders that allow him to play further forward, but he’s the captain and the talisman and I was expecting him to roll his sleeves up and start making things happen, especially after Croatia took the lead, but there wasn’t any sign of that, almost as if he’d given up the ghost.

Well first off, he did. In the second half he was picking the ball up in the halfway line and inside his own half, he also did this as the game wore on against Iceland. If you watch Barca he does it regularly there too, particularly in tight or difficult games, their failed CL games in recent years in particular usually result in him coming back. In fact he played large portions of games in midfield last season.

You can’t just make things happen anyway, unless you’re planning to score solo goals from 50/60 yards out you need players making the right runs and passes and Argentina are dismal in every area. And just strolling into control the midfield when you’ve got Modric and Rakitic in there is no mean feat, Modric for my money is the best midfielder in the world at the moment.

One thing I will agree with you on is that he chucked it. I think he looked resigned to defeat after Caballero gifted the first goal away, they all did. In fact I’ll even say that Messi looked sheepish and lacking in belief right from the first whistle. Realistically he’ll know that even if they get a miracle and still progress, they won’t be going any further than that.

No ones really responded to my own post further back, but it states that the biggest issue is they’ve not taken a good squad. Most of the forum won’t have heard of or watched most of the players starting for Argentina last night, and most of the ones they have heard of will either be over the hill or just shite (Mascherano, Caballero, Otamendi is a bombscare who makes high profile mistakes for City too). You’re not a great team because you’ve got a few world class attackers, the midfield and defence are quite important, and even on the subject of their top attacks, Di Maria has been piss poor and Higuain is the number 1 villain and reason Argentina haven’t won any of their last 3 finals.

 

[Earl of Leven]

Argentina were a shambles and midfield especially were outplayed. Messi and Ronaldo up front together would have struggled to do much with the service.

Sampaoli has been a disaster so far...they're unfit, downbeat and not even trying.

 

[Jacrispy]

I wonder if there's been trouble in the camp?

Against Iceland every player in the Argentina team were constantly looking for Messi and giving it to him no matter what. Last night he barely got a sniff of it and I don't think it's because Croatia were that great defensively.

Wouldn't be surprised if he retired from international duty again.

Aguero was having a go at the manager yesterday as well.

Story coming out this morning is the players all had a private meeting and have asked Sampaoli to bolt for the final match.

It’s been a disaster, the squad and set up has been a disaster, and while the players need to take a look at themselves, they’re clearly not in tune with their coach either.

The Argies deserved that pumping they got last night for their own naivety, it’s been coming.

 

[Macdonsj]

No ones really responded to my own post further back, but it states that the biggest issue is they’ve not taken a good squad. Most of the forum won’t have heard of or watched most of the players starting for Argentina last night, and most of the ones they have heard of will either be over the hill or just shite (Mascherano, Caballero, Otamendi is a bombscare who makes high profile mistakes for City too). You’re not a great team because you’ve got a few world class attackers, the midfield and defence are quite important, and even on the subject of their top attacks, Di Maria has been piss poor and Higuain is the number 1 villain and reason Argentina haven’t won any of their last 3 finals.

terrible picking from the coach
agree with all your assessments

Caballero is a number 2 keeper at best (at the top level) but he is the back up
to another number 2 keeper in Romero

he shuffled the defence last night leaving out the poor Rojo to bring in two donkeys to supplement a shocking Otamendi

he subbed off the RWB who was one of the few to turn up
takes off (a poor) Augero - why not play him and Higuain and take off Meza

 

[allidj]

The rewerite of Argentina as some shower of shit is brilliant.

Portugal have Jose Fonte and the back and a guy who - while us - plays in Scotland on the bench...guys at Roma, PSG and Man U don't get picked for Argentina in DEFENCE and MIDFIELD.

This is not some unknown collective of players.

It’s more the set up rather than the players

I can’t think of an elite side who have looked so rancid at that level. Horrible gaps between the front line and back and just bereft of ideas

 

[Jacrispy]

terrible picking from the coach
agree with all your assessments

Caballero is a number 2 keeper at best (at the top level) but he is the back up
to another number 2 keeper in Romero

he shuffled the defence last night leaving out the poor Rojo to bring in two donkeys to supplement a shocking Otamendi

he subbed off the RWB who was one of the few to turn up
takes off (a poor) Augero - why not play him and Higuain and take off Meza

Can’t disgree, he had a keeper who has been one of the he top performers in South American football this year and yet he took Caballlero instead, ridiculous.

Banega has regressed quite a bit but he’s still better than that atrocious midfield Sampaoli selected, that’s such a key area of the pitch too and when you’re up against a player of the quality of Modric you can’t afford to get that wrong. Otamendi’s a clown and he should have been sent off too, he’s like an aggressive David Luiz, the two of them defend like over excited school children at times, over committing and lunging in when they shouldn’t.

Meza, Perez and Acuña in particular are dreadful, and Tagliafico at left back was brutal too. We keep hearing about how their squads bursting with top talent but 95% of the forum will have never heard of or seen these guys play till last week.

 

[Macdonsj]

Can’t disgree, he had a keeper who has been one of the he top performers in South American football this year and yet he took Caballlero instead, ridiculous.

Banega has regressed quite a bit but he’s still better than that atrocious midfield Sampaoli selected, that’s such a key area of the pitch too and when you’re up against a player of the quality of Modric you can’t afford to get that wrong. Otamendi’s a clown and he should have been sent off too, he’s like an aggressive David Luiz, the two of them defend like over excited school children at times, over committing and lunging in when they shouldn’t.

Meza, Perez and Acuña in particular are dreadful, and Tagliafico at left back was brutal too. We keep hearing about how their squads bursting with top talent but 95% of the forum will have never heard of or seen these guys play till last week.

I have developed a particulary irrational hatred of Meza
when you see the bench and that little twerp is playing, its no wonder they are toiling

 

[Jacrispy]

I have developed a particulary irrational hatred of Meza
when you see the bench and that little twerp is playing, its no wonder they are toiling

He’s greedy as %^*& too. Just gets the head down and changes, and for 2 games Otamendi kept going long looking for him over the top, never came close to working once but obviously Agassi’s told them to go for it. Even Dbyala came on and had the first good chance in the whole match to get Messi a clear attempt at goal and instead he scooped it 10 yards over the bar from an awkward angle.

Some ‘team’.

 

[Hillheadbear]

Messi is obviously a very good player and, at Barcelona, he plays in a very good team. But when I think about the all time greats, guys like Pele, Cruyff or Maradona, Messi doesn't make it.

 

[Cambuslang Bear]

For 1 season at the end of his career
We all know he was mr Liverpool and pretty much a one club man.
So by your Logic then Iniesta isn’t a one club man either, even though we know he is just off to top up his pension.

Messi could still to what Stevie G did and bugger of to the states for a year.
Will that then mean he isn’t a one club man and can then be considered one of the best?

By anyone's logic yes. Mr Gerrard is not a one man club. Neither will Iniesta be, or Xavi or anyone else who has gone to top up there pension. Doesn't mean they/were not great players

 

[Stuart_WATP]

He's just not been the same since Sasa Papac flung him about

 

[BrooklynBlue]

An alleged recording of Diego Simeone commenting on yesterday has been reported in the Argentine press. Among his thoughts:

"We don't realise that Messi is very good but I clarify that he is very good because he is accompanied by extraordinary footballers," he said. "My question is: If you had to choose between Messi and [Cristiano] Ronaldo for a normal team, who would you choose?"

https://www.followfollow.com/forum/threads/argentine-superliga.41/page-21

 

[omegaman]

Well first off, he did. In the second half he was picking the ball up in the halfway line and inside his own half, he also did this as the game wore on against Iceland. If you watch Barca he does it regularly there too, particularly in tight or difficult games, their failed CL games in recent years in particular usually result in him coming back. In fact he played large portions of games in midfield last season.

You can’t just make things happen anyway, unless you’re planning to score solo goals from 50/60 yards out you need players making the right runs and passes and Argentina are dismal in every area. And just strolling into control the midfield when you’ve got Modric and Rakitic in there is no mean feat, Modric for my money is the best midfielder in the world at the moment.

One thing I will agree with you on is that he chucked it. I think he looked resigned to defeat after Caballero gifted the first goal away, they all did. In fact I’ll even say that Messi looked sheepish and lacking in belief right from the first whistle. Realistically he’ll know that even if they get a miracle and still progress, they won’t be going any further than that.

No ones really responded to my own post further back, but it states that the biggest issue is they’ve not taken a good squad. Most of the forum won’t have heard of or watched most of the players starting for Argentina last night, and most of the ones they have heard of will either be over the hill or just shite (Mascherano, Caballero, Otamendi is a bombscare who makes high profile mistakes for City too). You’re not a great team because you’ve got a few world class attackers, the midfield and defence are quite important, and even on the subject of their top attacks, Di Maria has been piss poor and Higuain is the number 1 villain and reason Argentina haven’t won any of their last 3 finals.

I didn’t see any great urgency by Messi to get on the ball last night.
He may have dropped back in search of it, but remembering the way Maradona used to come right back to take it off the defenders toes, that’s kind of what you wanted to see from Messi as captain last night, but it never really looked like happening.

Funny you mentioning the implausibility of Messi making 50 yard solo runs because he is the one player on the planet who could do that, yet there was a curious malaise to his play last night and has been in the tournament in general to date (contrast this with four years ago when he scored four times in the group, all crackers, and looked set to be the star of the show).

I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn that there are divisions within the Argentine dressing room, which isn’t designed to excuse either the team or its skipper - I actually agree with your assertion that they were prime candidates for shock first round exitees - but they’ve been even worse than I suspected they might.

 

[Jacrispy]

I didn’t see any great urgency by Messi to get on the ball last night.
He may have dropped back in search of it, but remembering the way Maradona used to come right back to take it off the defenders toes, that’s kind of what you wanted to see from Messi as captain last night, but it never really looked like happening.

Funny you mentioning the implausibility of Messi making 50 yard solo runs because he is the one player on the planet who could do that, yet there was a curious malaise to his play last night and has been in the tournament in general to date (contrast this with four years ago when he scored four times in the group, all crackers, and looked set to be the star of the show).

I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn that there are divisions within the Argentine dressing room, which isn’t designed to excuse either the team or its skipper - I actually agree with your assertion that they were prime candidates for shock first round exitees - but they’ve been even worse than I suspected they might.

He doesn’t do runs from the halfway line anymore! It’s a real rarity, doesn’t have the pace he had a few years ago.

And I know it’s stating the obvious here but it isn’t 1986 anymore and this Argentina side isn’t Diego’s Argentina side. I agree he didn’t show much urgency that’s why it felt to me like he was resigned to defeat. But the side in general was a shambles. What id expected if for him to play those passes in behind, but the opportunity was never there, Croatia were organised and the Argies attackers were never in those positions. Compare that to Peresic who kept finding himself with the entire left wing to himself.

Agree with the last bit, I thought they’d flop and go out early, I didn’t think they’d get scudded 3-0 in any of their group games though. Embarrassing stuff, to be honest it’s quite funny too because they’ve had that coming.

 

[gersrus71]

By anyone's logic yes. Mr Gerrard is not a one man club. Neither will Iniesta be, or Xavi or anyone else who has gone to top up there pension. Doesn't mean they/were not great players

I would say that someone who gave their entire career at the top to one club is a one club man, going for a jolly and a pension top up doesn’t count.

As a player you imediately associate Gerrard with Liverpool , Iniesta with Barcelona, you don’t think ah Gerrard, that’s the boy that played in LA.

 

[omegaman]

He doesn’t do runs from the halfway line anywhere! It’s a real rarity, doesn’t have the pace he had a few years ago.

And I know it’s stating the obvious here but it isn’t 1986 anymore and this Argentina side isn’t Diego’s Argentina side. I agree he didn’t show much urgency that’s why it felt to me like he was resigned to defeat. But the side in general was a shambles. What id expected if for him to play those passes in behind, but the opportunity was never there, Croatia were organised and the Argies attackers were never in those positions. Compare that to Peresic who kept finding himself with the entire left wing to himself.

Agree with the last bit, I thought they’d flop and go out early, I didn’t think they’d get scudded 3-0 in any of their group games though. Embarrassing stuff, to be honest it’s quite funny too because they’ve had that coming.

It’s an odd one because this is probably going to be Messi’s last World Cup so there was an expectation / hope that he would give it his all (loathe as I am to continually compare the two, the same is true of Ronaldo, but he certainly looks determined to go out with a bang).

The manner in which he dragged them to these finals after his self-imposed exile suggested he understood that, but instead we’ve had a guy who looks like he knows the game’s a bogey.

 

[Sheik Ma Shammy]

Not the same player outwith Barcelona still a great player but untested and in his comfort zone.

 

[dt17]

An alleged recording of Diego Simeone commenting on yesterday has been reported in the Argentine press. Among his thoughts:

"We don't realise that Messi is very good but I clarify that he is very good because he is accompanied by extraordinary footballers," he said. "My question is: If you had to choose between Messi and [Cristiano] Ronaldo for a normal team, who would you choose?"

https://www.followfollow.com/forum/threads/argentine-superliga.41/page-21

Interesting that a couple of months ago he said that the only reason Barcelona beat Atletico was because they had Messi. If they didn't have him, Barca wouldn't have won. They were his words.

Also, people keep saying how great the Barca squad are...but are they really? No more than 2 or 3 would walk into Real's starting 11 yet they still absolutely scooshed the league, almost going unbeaten...down to one man.

 

[Cambuslang Bear]

I would say that someone who gave their entire career at the top to one club is a one club man, going for a jolly and a pension top up doesn’t count.

As a player you imediately associate Gerrard with Liverpool , Iniesta with Barcelona, you don’t think ah Gerrard, that’s the boy that played in LA.

You might not think of it automatically, but he played for them. You can't argue with that