Messi

Xavi Hernandez

Well-Known Member
Is there a reason for that? Does he play those teams more(due to cups etc) than he does the cannon fodder teams or something?

There has to be something 'padding' those stats, not that it really downplays the goals against those teams because %^*& me, but surely there's some team over the years they've consistently battered 5 and 6-0

That'd be like one of our strikers having the best scoring record against Celtic compared to anyone else in the league. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense if we're being honest.
From memory they played Real Madrid in the CL Semi final when Messi scored two absolute belters in the Bernabau.

Think they have played Atletico once in the CL as well.

Obviously Copa Del Rey games will increase it.
 

The Golden God

Well-Known Member
Cracking player but grown men greeting over who wins the balon d'or has to be the most embarrassing thing in modern football.
 

gers1978

Well-Known Member
Is there a reason for that? Does he play those teams more(due to cups etc) than he does the cannon fodder teams or something?

There has to be something 'padding' those stats, not that it really downplays the goals against those teams because %^*& me, but surely there's some team over the years they've consistently battered 5 and 6-0

That'd be like one of our strikers having the best scoring record against Celtic compared to anyone else in the league. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense if we're being honest.
His goals v Spanish teams, sorted by goals per game, with those 4 teams highlighted:



Same idea, but sorted by minutes per goal:

 
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gers1978

Well-Known Member
You won't be saying that when we win the league :p
Ha, I get your point, but I've seen far too much tragedy in my life and been in too many dark, dark places to get too emotional over a sport. I will, however, allow myself a "fucking get in there" and get pished :))
 

iain18(7)2

Well-Known Member
He’s won the balon d’or by all accounts. More than deserved. The wee man is a freak. Been a joy to watch him the last year
 

Woodrow Call

Well-Known Member
I'm his biggest fan.

That said while watching the semi at Anfield I thought he looked slow and sluggish. To be honest I thought he was done.
 

dh1963

Well-Known Member
There's no definitive answer to who is the best footballer of all time.

But anyone who doesn't think Messi is the best player of this century is wrong.
 

Berserker

Member
Good call. Been consistently outstanding, year in, year out. Messi is better but Ronaldo is still a very special player.
 

SHAWLANDS LOYAL

Active Member
I’m a massive fan - for me he is, without doubt, the best ever. For him to have only one more ballon dor than Ronaldo annoys me, he is a superior player in every way.
 

gers1978

Well-Known Member
I’m a massive fan - for me he is, without doubt, the best ever. For him to have only one more ballon dor than Ronaldo annoys me, he is a superior player in every way.
I wouldn't say in every way, Ronaldo is clearly faster and a better header of the ball.

What's true is that these 2 have completely wrecked the grading curve for what we expect of a world class player. Messi has at least 40 goals a season EVERY season for last 10 years. Without even bothering about any other stat or aspect of his game, that's fecking ridiculous. Before him and CR7 a player doing that once or twice in his whole career would have been considered phenomenal.
 

SHAWLANDS LOYAL

Active Member
I wouldn't say in every way, Ronaldo is clearly faster and a better header of the ball.

What's true is that these 2 have completely wrecked the grading curve for what we expect of a world class player. Messi has at least 40 goals a season EVERY season for last 10 years. Without even bothering about any other stat or aspect of his game, that's fecking ridiculous. Before him and CR7 a player doing that once or twice in his whole career would have been considered phenomenal.
I meant in terms of footballing attributes. Finishing, passing, dribbling - messi trumps him on them all. Ronaldo was always claimed to be a better goal scorer than messi, this simply isn’t true.
 

Mearns Ranger

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I think it's only fair to judge them on their careers whilst they played against each other.

Messi has spent his entire career at Barcelona, and they pretty much win things every year, and they almost always have.
Ronaldo started at Sporting, who are the third best team historically in Portugal.
He also spent years at Manchester United which is a much more competitive league, and playing as a winger for Man United isn't the same as playing as a winger or forward for Barcelona or Real Madrid.

I'm not arguing a case for Ronaldo here by the way, but I am saying be fair in the comparisons. Playing for Manchester United in the EPL would have been much harder for Ronaldo than it was in his time at Madrid.

I also don't agree that Messi trumps Ronaldo on everything. Ronaldo is clearly stronger, faster, a better header of the ball and strikes the ball better with his weaker foot. These are just facts.

Messi would be my choice, but if people choose to prefer the bigger, stronger, faster player, then that's their choice.

Personally, I think Messi's magic is what sets him apart. People always want to praise one and stick the boot into the other. There have been seasons when Ronaldo has actually done better than Messi, and seasons when Messi has outperformed Ronaldo. Just enjoy them both. They are the true superstars of this generation.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
Messi has scored 40+ goals a season for the past 10/11 years.

You know he's the best when people are saying he shouldn't win the Ballon d'Or because of the 4-0 game at Anfield...as if one game somehow negates an entire season. Also failing to note that he scored 2 in the first leg. It's not his job to defend, his team (and manager) let him down at Anfield).

That aside...what he's doing is ridiculous. He's the best goalscorer in the world, the best dribbler, the best passer and the best playmaker all rolled into one.

Those saying Van Dijk deserved it, for what? I appreciate he had a good season with Liverpool - but it was more of a team effort because Allison, Mane, Salah, Firmino, Robertson & TAA all had terrific seasons as well. Messi carried Barca.

Not only that, but Van Dijk has only kept about 2 clean sheets in the last 20+ games.

“Did I feel injustice? It's up to you to tell me if the Ballon d'Or is awarded to the best player or the one who enjoys the best season."
That was Messi's quote last night after the event when he was asked about Modric winning it and Ronaldo in previous seasons. Spot on tbf.
 

SHAWLANDS LOYAL

Active Member
I think it's only fair to judge them on their careers whilst they played against each other.

Messi has spent his entire career at Barcelona, and they pretty much win things every year, and they almost always have.
Ronaldo started at Sporting, who are the third best team historically in Portugal.
He also spent years at Manchester United which is a much more competitive league, and playing as a winger for Man United isn't the same as playing as a winger or forward for Barcelona or Real Madrid.

I'm not arguing a case for Ronaldo here by the way, but I am saying be fair in the comparisons. Playing for Manchester United in the EPL would have been much harder for Ronaldo than it was in his time at Madrid.

I also don't agree that Messi trumps Ronaldo on everything. Ronaldo is clearly stronger, faster, a better header of the ball and strikes the ball better with his weaker foot. These are just facts.

Messi would be my choice, but if people choose to prefer the bigger, stronger, faster player, then that's their choice.

Personally, I think Messi's magic is what sets him apart. People always want to praise one and stick the boot into the other. There have been seasons when Ronaldo has actually done better than Messi, and seasons when Messi has outperformed Ronaldo. Just enjoy them both. They are the true superstars of this generation.
Being faster and stronger aren’t ‘football’ attributes though, in that they don’t help make one player better than another. The other two don’t matter, because when it comes down to it, messi finishes more chances than Ronaldo
 

Mearns Ranger

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Being faster and stronger aren’t ‘football’ attributes though, in that they don’t help make one player better than another. The other two don’t matter, because when it comes down to it, messi finishes more chances than Ronaldo
I'm not saying it makes him a better footballer, but I'm not sure I can agree that it doesn't help make people better players.
We had better footballers than Martin O'Neill's teams, but they physically battered us.
For the purist it;'s not pretty, but it is undoubtedly a football attribute. If it wasn't, we could all just prance about doing tricks and skills, and street soccer guys would have a place in the game.

And again, I'm not making a case for Ronaldo being better, but there are undoubtedly things he's better at than Messi. How can you say the other two don't matter? If Messi comes up against a packed defence that he just can't get through, and he's constantly shown onto his right foot from 30 yards out, don't you think he'd benefit from being able to batter in 30 yard right footers? Or being able to out jump just about anyone to score a header?

I prefer Messi, and agree with most on here that he's better than Ronaldo, but there are cases to be made for Ronaldo, certainly when people are saying Messi trumps him at everything when he clearly doesn't, and ultimately it's down to people's preference.

Messi should have more Ballon D'or's too. Modric getting it wasn't the correct decision, no matter how good Real or Croatia were. There would have been more of a case for handing it to Xavi or Iniesta one year than Modric getting it last year.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
I'm not saying it makes him a better footballer, but I'm not sure I can agree that it doesn't help make people better players.
We had better footballers than Martin O'Neill's teams, but they physically battered us.
For the purist it;'s not pretty, but it is undoubtedly a football attribute. If it wasn't, we could all just prance about doing tricks and skills, and street soccer guys would have a place in the game.

And again, I'm not making a case for Ronaldo being better, but there are undoubtedly things he's better at than Messi. How can you say the other two don't matter? If Messi comes up against a packed defence that he just can't get through, and he's constantly shown onto his right foot from 30 yards out, don't you think he'd benefit from being able to batter in 30 yard right footers? Or being able to out jump just about anyone to score a header?

I prefer Messi, and agree with most on here that he's better than Ronaldo, but there are cases to be made for Ronaldo, certainly when people are saying Messi trumps him at everything when he clearly doesn't, and ultimately it's down to people's preference.

Messi should have more Ballon D'or's too. Modric getting it wasn't the correct decision, no matter how good Real or Croatia were. There would have been more of a case for handing it to Xavi or Iniesta one year than Modric getting it last year.
Ronaldo has a better left foot than Messi's right.
Ronaldo is taller therefore is better in the air.
Ronaldo is possible faster (debatable when they were in their primes).

For me that's just about where it ends.

Messi is better:
- finishing
- dribbling
- free kicks
- passing
- play making
- vision
 

Mearns Ranger

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Ronaldo has a better left foot than Messi's right.
Ronaldo is taller therefore is better in the air.
Ronaldo is possible faster (debatable when they were in their primes).

For me that's just about where it ends.

Messi is better:
- finishing
- dribbling
- free kicks
- passing
- play making
- vision
Finishing is debatable. Yes he's probably more composed, but at a distance of maybe 15 yards or so or at a tight angle on his weak foot, is he really a better finisher?

Don't disagree with the rest. My main point was that Messi doesn't trump Ronaldo at everything. I'm not arguing that Ronaldo is better. I prefer Messi for pretty much all the things you've stated he's better at. Quite simply what Messi does is more difficult. It's magical, it's creative, it's beautiful. He is the greatest player of all time IMO. I love the guy. I just don't need to put Ronaldo down to prove it. Ronaldo is also one of the greats.
Messi deserves to be recognised as the Greatest in my eyes, but even at times when he was, Ronaldo was battering in something like double, double, hat trick, double, double in the Quarters, Semis and Final of the CL.

Ronaldo is a machine. Messi is a god.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
Finishing is debatable. Yes he's probably more composed, but at a distance of maybe 15 yards or so or at a tight angle on his weak foot, is he really a better finisher?

Don't disagree with the rest. My main point was that Messi doesn't trump Ronaldo at everything. I'm not arguing that Ronaldo is better. I prefer Messi for pretty much all the things you've stated he's better at. Quite simply what Messi does is more difficult. It's magical, it's creative, it's beautiful. He is the greatest player of all time IMO. I love the guy. I just don't need to put Ronaldo down to prove it. Ronaldo is also one of the greats.
Messi deserves to be recognised as the Greatest in my eyes, but even at times when he was, Ronaldo was battering in something like double, double, hat trick, double, double in the Quarters, Semis and Final of the CL.

Ronaldo is a machine. Messi is a god.
Weak foot I'll give you.

Outside the box...

Starting from 2007/08 season, the players who have scored the most goals from outside the penalty area in the top 5 European Leagues:

69 Lionel Messi
54 Cristiano Ronaldo
35 Zlatan Ibrahimovic
27 Miralem Pjanic
 

Mearns Ranger

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
Weak foot I'll give you.

Outside the box...

Starting from 2007/08 season, the players who have scored the most goals from outside the penalty area in the top 5 European Leagues:

69 Lionel Messi
54 Cristiano Ronaldo
35 Zlatan Ibrahimovic
27 Miralem Pjanic
I’d wager Messi isn’t scoring any right footers from outside the box.

Bet Ronaldo is well into double figures with his.

I’d also bet if you knocked that back two years and included Ronaldo’s United goals it’d be a lot closer.

I know Messi creates just as much for himself as others probably do for him, but Messi has been playing in a better team with a better style of play for pretty much the whole time.
He should have better stats.
Christ could you imagine Ronaldo if Messi, Xavi and Iniesta were feeding him?
 

Danger Zone

Just the tip...
Weak foot I'll give you.

Outside the box...

Starting from 2007/08 season, the players who have scored the most goals from outside the penalty area in the top 5 European Leagues:

69 Lionel Messi
54 Cristiano Ronaldo
35 Zlatan Ibrahimovic
27 Miralem Pjanic
Biggest difference between the two is the number of efforts. Ronaldo takes a huge number of efforts more to get roughly the same number of goals, so one is certainly a lot more clinical than the other

Ronaldo obviously beats him for pace and aerial threat, as he does pretty much everyone else in the sport.
 

gers1978

Well-Known Member
Biggest difference between the two is the number of efforts. Ronaldo takes a huge number of efforts more to get roughly the same number of goals, so one is certainly a lot more clinical than the other
Across their entire club career, Messi has 0.34 goals per on target, Ronaldo is 0.26 (0.29 if you only look at his time with Real).
 

HandsomeHead

Well-Known Member
Everytime there’s a thread on Messi Ronaldo gets dragged into it.

It’s both tedious and bizarre.

It’s like eulogising about The Beatles and Take That keep popping up.
 

BunkMoreland

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I’d wager Messi isn’t scoring any right footers from outside the box.

Bet Ronaldo is well into double figures with his.

I’d also bet if you knocked that back two years and included Ronaldo’s United goals it’d be a lot closer.

I know Messi creates just as much for himself as others probably do for him, but Messi has been playing in a better team with a better style of play for pretty much the whole time.
He should have better stats.
Christ could you imagine Ronaldo if Messi, Xavi and Iniesta were feeding him?
Funnily enough Dani Alves assisted more than Xavi and Iniesta.
Such a lazy argument.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
I’d wager Messi isn’t scoring any right footers from outside the box.

Bet Ronaldo is well into double figures with his.

I’d also bet if you knocked that back two years and included Ronaldo’s United goals it’d be a lot closer.

I know Messi creates just as much for himself as others probably do for him, but Messi has been playing in a better team with a better style of play for pretty much the whole time.
He should have better stats.
Christ could you imagine Ronaldo if Messi, Xavi and Iniesta were feeding him?
Not buying that at all tbh.

Maybe for a few seasons when Xavi and Iniesta were still in their pomp...but let's not forget that Man Utd side won the Champions League and reached the final another time. Not only that, but his Real Madrid side won four CL's...hardly a team of diddies is it? Messi has been carrying Barca on his own for the last 2-3 years now.

Also, if your left foot is so good what use is there for your right...just ask Albertz ;)
 

Peekaboo

Well-Known Member
Not buying that at all tbh.

Maybe for a few seasons when Xavi and Iniesta were still in their pomp...but let's not forget that Man Utd side won the Champions League and reached the final another time. Not only that, but his Real Madrid side won four CL's...hardly a team of diddies is it? Messi has been carrying Barca on his own for the last 2-3 years now.
It was always going to be a problem replacing Iniesta and Xavi but the failure to replace Puyol is probably more to blame for their defeat to Liverpool.
 

ICA_86

Well-Known Member
Don’t get why it always turns into an argument on here.

I look at it as Messi being the best ever. A god given talent, does things beyond the imagination and sees things on a park that I can’t see when watching the game from a much better view.

Ronaldo could easily have been another Quaresma, but the work he’s put in to have the physique and ability to keep it going is immense, plus he’s been successful in several countries and on the international stage.

Love them both....but I’d still rather watch Ronaldinho.
 

Xavi Hernandez

Well-Known Member
Don’t get why it always turns into an argument on here.

I look at it as Messi being the best ever. A god given talent, does things beyond the imagination and sees things on a park that I can’t see when watching the game from a much better view.

Ronaldo could easily have been another Quaresma, but the work he’s put in to have the physique and ability to keep it going is immense, plus he’s been successful in several countries and on the international stage.

Love them both....but I’d still rather watch Ronaldinho.
Gets often forgotten just how good he was because he was papped out of Barca as soon as Messi came on the scene and Messi just exploded.

When Ronaldinho won the Ballon d'Or in 2005 he said "I am not the best player in the world, I am not even the best at Barcelona. Lionel Messi is" :D

What a player he was but. Probably the most skilful of the lot.
 

Gardy90

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I love how Ronaldo’s time at man united always gets brought up.

He was still playing for the biggest club in the country not Wigan ffs.
 

dt17

Well-Known Member
I love how Ronaldo’s time at man united always gets brought up.

He was still playing for the biggest club in the country not Wigan ffs.
It's more when people say 'Ronaldo has done it in 4 countries'.

Aye he played a handful of games for Sporting and then joined Juve who'd already won the league for 7 years on the trot and reached the CL final.

It's hilarious when people (usually Ronaldo fan boys, Liverpool fans or Nigerians) say Messi bottled it at Anfield. He'd already scored 2 in the first leg and created several chances in the second leg. Is he supposed to play centre half as well?
 

ICA_86

Well-Known Member
I love how Ronaldo’s time at man united always gets brought up.

He was still playing for the biggest club in the country not Wigan ffs.
I’m not sure what that has got to do with anything.

His time at United is brought up because he went from an inconsistent skinny sand dancer to one of the best players and pure athletes in the world.

That’s a bizarre point you’ve tried to make there.
 
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