Modern Fans vs Rangers Da's

Agree with this

Winning ugly was a trait of our teams at times in that era as they had had a great winning mentality.
Some of the stuff was dire at times.

As for Europe ,apart from 92/93

Well that deserves a thread of its own as it was pretty woeful.
Remember McCoist having a wee dig when Morelos broke his record about how he scored his goals in European Cup.

Scored one CL goal between 92 and leaving us in 98. McCoist scored against same level of opposition in Europe
 
It's absolutely true that diet, fitness, speed and lifestyle are all so much better now and that therefore players in 2022 are faster and fitter than in past generations.

But that means nothing, as every generation can only play against others of similar speed, fitness and lifestyle.

If Tavernier, Kent and Morelos had been born 30 years earlier, then they would be no quicker than Stevens, Laudrup or McCoist. Similarly, if those guys had been born 30 years later, they would enjoy the extra speed and fitness of modern players.

All you can really compare is ability, that is timeless.
 
I think most from the Advocaat era onwards would be fine with the modern fitness requirements

Pre Advocaat though I'm not so sure. A lot of them 9IAR guys are 80s footballers and didn't get up to speed with the fitness and dietary changes. Who knows whether their bodies would have coped with modern football.

Some of the best players ever from history probably wouldn't make it in today's game as they wouldn't handle the pace of it.

However we will never know who and its best just to remember players from the era they played rather than compare with other era's.
 
Domestically Smiths early-mid 90s team beats any later era. They had the skill to destroy the jobbers but also the grit and determination to match them for effort and physicality.

Advocaat’s first 2 years gave us our best European side. The CL group with PSV, Valencia and Bayern is the best I’ve seen us.

There are 1 or 2 current players who could’ve played in those sides but generally the earlier teams were of a higher standard.

In particular, prime Hateley would embarrass the current defence.
I disagree Advocaats first two years were our best Euro side.

This team beat better sides, Advocaats team failed against teams we would expect to beat now (Kaiserslautern/Strum Graz etc).

They played lovely football, got some good one off results but ultimately failed when the going got hard
 
The current guys earn at least two or three times the wages and have just reached a European Final. We have just sold a player for double our record outlay too.
Highly debatable on the salary front given Klos was on 60k a week. Also takes no account of the wage inflation in the game in general.

The fact a team assembled at much lower cost have regularly performed better in Europe is a real credit to the current side.
 
I do like you are being true to the Walter Smith tactics of shoe horning in players all over.

If it was a standard performance of the team.you picked v a standard performance of the current team then I think the current team wins.

Best performance v best performance its fairly evenly matched
I disagree the team of Smiths era not only had ability they had guts and every one were winners.

I don't see 20% of that guts and will to win in the current squad. Imagine Gough saying the game was lost at half time because we were 2-0 down to hibs in a cup semi? Or that the team didn't like it when teams get in their faces?

Never.
 
Highly debatable on the salary front given Klos was on 60k a week. Also takes no account of the wage inflation in the game in general.

The fact a team assembled at much lower cost have regularly performed better in Europe is a real credit to the current side.
No chance Klos was on that, not even half of it.
 
Highly debatable on the salary front given Klos was on 60k a week. Also takes no account of the wage inflation in the game in general.

The fact a team assembled at much lower cost have regularly performed better in Europe is a real credit to the current side.
Majority of this team are on less than most of the 95 onwards players mentioned in his team.

We are still claim Lundstram is on £40k. Gazza reportedly got that from day 1 from 1995
 
I disagree the team of Smiths era not only had ability they had guts and every one were winners.

I don't see 20% of that guts and will to win in the current squad. Imagine Gough saying the game was lost at half time because we were 2-0 down to hibs in a cup semi? Or that the team didn't like it when teams get in their faces?

Never.

The squad of then carried a gun into a knife fight most weeks in Scotland, it helps build a "will to win" when you are a f*ck lot better than every single team you play.

In Europe their attitude was often that a game was lost before it even started let alone getting to HT TBH
 
I disagree the team of Smiths era not only had ability they had guts and every one were winners.

I don't see 20% of that guts and will to win in the current squad. Imagine Gough saying the game was lost at half time because we were 2-0 down to hibs in a cup semi? Or that the team didn't like it when teams get in their faces?

Never.
Is this thread because you appear to dislike most of our current team?

F.u.cking strange
 
I read more than post nowadays but could not resist after reading the thread on the Athletic's ideas on player types and the names for them.

The posts regarding Rangers da's incoming got me thinking. Are the players of my era, the 90's so far out of touch with the modern game and the way it is played just like supporters of that era?

Personally I think the players I watched in my twenties are far superior to the current Rangers squad.

So I will name my squad below and let the modern, more knowledgeable supporter debate whether my Rangers Da's side is better position by position than their modern equivalent.

GK Goram Klos

RB Stevens Porrini

CH Gough Butcher Moore Brown

LB Robertson Numan

CM I Ferguson Gazza B Ferguson McCall

RM Laudrup Steven

LM Albertz Durrant

CF McCoist Hateley Negri Durie

4-4-2

In my opinion they would beat the current squad with ease, can you even imagine Laudrup, Gazza, McCoist and Hateley up against our current defence? It would be frightening. There are only two current players who would possibly make my squad, Tav and Morelos.

Keep it civil lads and dare I say it, respectful.

A lot of those players were involved in some humiliating European results like Levski Sofia, Viktoria Zizkov and a good few others too.

They consistently underperformed in Europe, while our current team consistently overperform against some very good European sides and have never been beaten by any of them "with ease."

Your team also managed to finish 3rd in a 2 horse race, when they finished behind celtic and Hearts in the league, despite Souness having a playing budget about 5 times the size of the rest of the league put together.
Luckily for the manager and players, social media wasn't around then.

So while there were some outstanding players in your era, as a team they often played well below their potential, particularly in Europe.

Better individual players in your era?
Definitely.

Did they perform better in Europe?
Apart from 1992/93, no and were sometimes embarrassed.
 
I bow to your superior knowledge, it's all in the name eh.

Mate, why are you talking about salary of players now v the late 80's and early 90s do you have any how wild that actually is.

Or to make mention of players being sold, we didn't even bother selling players back then, just burnt through them and f*cked them off, the entire business model of football and Rangers was completely removed from what it is now
 
The modern day midfielder boils me , to go games upon games without creating a single chance or having a shot at goal , passing it about 5/10 yards going nowhere would never be deemed as having a good game in the years gone by , even more dogged players like your Stuart McCalls, Ian Ferguson’s etc , were all positive and forward thinking

My favourite example of the modern day midfielder was Billy Gilmores MOTM award against England in the euros, won the award, without creating a chance , having a shot, winning a tackle or driving past a man , absolute madness, Gazza’s MOTM award would be for 2 goals and genuinely ripping the opposition to shreds
 
Scottish football as a whole has poorer standard players as opposed to the 90's
Even teams like Aberdeen and Motherwell had better squads.
 
I read more than post nowadays but could not resist after reading the thread on the Athletic's ideas on player types and the names for them.

The posts regarding Rangers da's incoming got me thinking. Are the players of my era, the 90's so far out of touch with the modern game and the way it is played just like supporters of that era?

Personally I think the players I watched in my twenties are far superior to the current Rangers squad.

So I will name my squad below and let the modern, more knowledgeable supporter debate whether my Rangers Da's side is better position by position than their modern equivalent.

GK Goram Klos

RB Stevens Porrini

CH Gough Butcher Moore Brown

LB Robertson Numan

CM I Ferguson Gazza B Ferguson McCall

RM Laudrup Steven

LM Albertz Durrant

CF McCoist Hateley Negri Durie

4-4-2

In my opinion they would beat the current squad with ease, can you even imagine Laudrup, Gazza, McCoist and Hateley up against our current defence? It would be frightening. There are only two current players who would possibly make my squad, Tav and Morelos.

Keep it civil lads and dare I say it, respectful.
A general point I would say across many clubs and leagues is that I don't think defenders are as good at defending now as they used to be. This is possibly more to do with having defenders that can pass and play positively nowadays, but that's often at the expense of defensive abilities as the guys who are top level at both are few and far between.

Have seen many games over the last few years where the basics of defending and positioning were not there and thought even I would have done something to stop those goals/chances.

So for defensive abilities I would definitely select players from a long time ago.

In fact, with the game becoming more like touch football nowadays then I think most of the forwards from the older days would flourish and standout even more than they did in the days of the regular bone crunching tackles.
 
I read more than post nowadays but could not resist after reading the thread on the Athletic's ideas on player types and the names for them.

The posts regarding Rangers da's incoming got me thinking. Are the players of my era, the 90's so far out of touch with the modern game and the way it is played just like supporters of that era?

Personally I think the players I watched in my twenties are far superior to the current Rangers squad.

So I will name my squad below and let the modern, more knowledgeable supporter debate whether my Rangers Da's side is better position by position than their modern equivalent.

GK Goram Klos

RB Stevens Porrini

CH Gough Butcher Moore Brown

LB Robertson Numan

CM I Ferguson Gazza B Ferguson McCall

RM Laudrup Steven

LM Albertz Durrant

CF McCoist Hateley Negri Durie

4-4-2

In my opinion they would beat the current squad with ease, can you even imagine Laudrup, Gazza, McCoist and Hateley up against our current defence? It would be frightening. There are only two current players who would possibly make my squad, Tav and Morelos.

Keep it civil lads and dare I say it, respectful.
That's the team I grew up with. They'd pump the current team.
 
you're comparing squads with millions splashed on them with the current day squad assembled on a relative pittance.

also many of the players you name were involved in multiple euro disasters.

For what it's worth, i'm 52.
Actually, very few of the players listed in the OP cost huge amounts. I think Numan (£5m?) and Gazza (£4.2m?) were the most expensive.

I get that comparatively* they maybe cost more, but not massively.

*I'm talking about EPL prices.
 
Some of the best players we’ve ever had (Goram, Gough, McCoist, Laudrup, Gascoigne etc) were embarrassed regularly in Europe.

It’s impossible to fairly compare eras and generations with another.
Exactly this.

For all this current team's frailties, they play a possession based game that delivers time and again in Europe. There's a confidence and assurance there that was distinctly absent in some of our best ever sides. Any criticism of Gio's team surely has to be measured of what's gone before.
 
Actually, very few of the players listed in the OP cost huge amounts. I think Numan (£5m?) and Gazza (£4.2m?) were the most expensive.

I get that comparatively* they maybe cost more, but not massively.

*I'm talking about EPL prices.

They utterly did at that time, more so in the case of Gazza
 
They utterly did at that time, more so in the case of Gazza
Gazza cost us £4.3m in 1995.

A year later, Shearer went to Newcastle for £15m.

Since then the English /European market has gone crazy in terms of clubs over-paying for players.
Fair enough we can't keep up with that kind of money these days, but I wouldn't say we were paying massively over the odds for the likes of Gazza back then.

Edit - Flo aside
 
I disagree Advocaats first two years were our best Euro side.

This team beat better sides, Advocaats team failed against teams we would expect to beat now (Kaiserslautern/Strum Graz etc).

They played lovely football, got some good one off results but ultimately failed when the going got hard
I deliberately said Advocaat’s first 2 years.

Once he signed Konterman and Ricksen it was down hill from there.
 
In Europe without a doubt.
Including the qualifiers against teams of very poor quality. McCoist never played 2 or 3 qualifying rounds to get into the proper tournament. McCoist was the best Rangers striker I've seen. Not the best finisher though, like Morelos he needs 4 or 5 chances before he takes one. Both are similar that they don't let the misses bother them.
The squad of then carried a gun into a knife fight most weeks in Scotland, it helps build a "will to win" when you are a f*ck lot better than every single team you play.

In Europe their attitude was often that a game was lost before it even started let alone getting to HT TBH
And what's the difference between then n now? Do you not think there is a massive gulf in class still? I'd say its still the same, if not worse, except the current team has trouble with the dreaded low block. It is not a new phenomenon.
 
Gazza cost us £4.3m in 1995.

A year later, Shearer went to Newcastle for £15m.

Since then the English /European market has gone crazy in terms of clubs over-paying for players.
Fair enough we can't keep up with that kind of money these days, but I wouldn't say we were paying massively over the odds for the likes of Gazza back then.

Edit - Flo aside

Exactly.

The Gazza addition utterly was over the odds relative the market we were in
 
It's a difficult one because you can only really compare players to their peers. That team was amazing, compared to other teams in the UK at the time, clearly the players were far better than most, even globally for some.of them.

But things improve over time. Your average player is much better than your average players 20-30 ago. Improvements in coaching, being coached from a young age, the tactical advancements of the game, the vast improvement in fitness and sport science all contribute. The huge improvements in the defensive side of the game especially, players who ran riot back in the day obviously wouldn't have the same freedoms to do so now.

I'm not saying they are, but maybe the players today are better than players from 20-30 years ago, but relative to their peers, they are a lot further behind than that team was. They are certainly better athletes, I don't think that can be disputed.
 
And what's the difference between then n now? Do you not think there is a massive gulf in class still? I'd say its still the same, if not worse, except the current team has trouble with the dreaded low block. It is not a new phenomenon.

The difference between now and then?

Celtic and their standards for a start.

Not being able to go out and add players playing for top end internatinal sides, guys scoring goals at World Cups and playing in teams winning World Cups

To compare now and then is genuinely bizarre, more so given you were supposedly around during those days

The current team have a superb record at home in recent years despite any mythical "low block" issue, can't be arsed looking but the teams back in those days likely dropped as many points despite league wins, often due to half arsed displays during the course of the season.
 
Some of the best players we’ve ever had (Goram, Gough, McCoist, Laudrup, Gascoigne etc) were embarrassed regularly in Europe.

It’s impossible to fairly compare eras and generations with another.
It’s a continual frustration tonne that if you had much of the 1990s team playing under modern day preparation and coaching conditions… it would be phenomenal.

Goram

Tav Gough McLaren Numan

Lundstram McCall

Durrant Gascoigne Laudrup

Hateley or Morelos


All of those players in their pomp playing for Gio would wipe the floor with most opponents. Possibly put McCoist up with Hateley and take out McCall but trying to use the modern day team setup.
 
I read more than post nowadays but could not resist after reading the thread on the Athletic's ideas on player types and the names for them.

The posts regarding Rangers da's incoming got me thinking. Are the players of my era, the 90's so far out of touch with the modern game and the way it is played just like supporters of that era?

Personally I think the players I watched in my twenties are far superior to the current Rangers squad.

So I will name my squad below and let the modern, more knowledgeable supporter debate whether my Rangers Da's side is better position by position than their modern equivalent.

GK Goram Klos

RB Stevens Porrini

CH Gough Butcher Moore Brown

LB Robertson Numan

CM I Ferguson Gazza B Ferguson McCall

RM Laudrup Steven

LM Albertz Durrant

CF McCoist Hateley Negri Durie

4-4-2

In my opinion they would beat the current squad with ease, can you even imagine Laudrup, Gazza, McCoist and Hateley up against our current defence? It would be frightening. There are only two current players who would possibly make my squad, Tav and Morelos.

Keep it civil lads and dare I say it, respectful.
Dunno what age you are, I am 45 so your squad brings back many happy memories.
However, like most things, each generation looks back on their heyday and always thinks its better than the current lot. be it football or music or films etc.

There are a few athletes there, like g Stevens, Porrini, Robertson and I would even say mccall, who just kept going.

The modern player though is without doubt faster, and fitter. Now, lauders and gazza would still be able to rely on skill to go past someone, but not sure they could run away like they did in their day.

Also, with current coaching, its just a different game being played today. The way the teams line up to the patterns and over laps during a game.

Think of the amount of times mccall went in with a cracking slide tackle- not sure how long he would stay on a pitch today- lets not even think about John Brown!!!

to sum up, no one can say for definite that one era is better than the other, as they are just too different.
 
The difference between now and then?

Celtic and their standards for a start.

Not being able to go out and add players playing for top end internatinal sides, guys scoring goals at World Cups and playing in teams winning World Cups

To compare now and then is genuinely bizarre, more so given you were supposedly around during those days

The current team have a superb record at home in recent years despite any mythical "low block" issue
You don't win the league at home.
 
I think most from the Advocaat era onwards would be fine with the modern fitness requirements

Pre Advocaat though I'm not so sure. A lot of them 9IAR guys are 80s footballers and didn't get up to speed with the fitness and dietary changes. Who knows whether their bodies would have coped with modern football.

Some of the best players ever from history probably wouldn't make it in today's game as they wouldn't handle the pace of it.

However we will never know who and its best just to remember players from the era they played rather than compare with other era's.
I think you adapt to the circumstances you are in. I remember one of the Liverpool players from the late 70s / early 80s talking about how most of that side were pretty big drinkers, but got away with it because the other squads were doing the same.

Bryan Robson, probably the best English midfielder of his generation used to bevvy on a Friday night before matches and was usually still a stand out. If these guys were coming through these days they would still be as gifted, and also be model professionals as it's the only way they would make it.
 
For starters Morelos would get nowhere near that team lucky if he made the bench! You are right about Tav though. The thing is we are in a different era many of the players you mention were bought for big money,we are buying in a different market these days.

Wouldn't get near what team? 9IAR?? Gordon Durie regularly played for that side so I'm sure Morelos would have managed at least a place on the bench.
 
I wonder how much impact the improved fitness and recovery of current players would have.
I think this pretty much nails it. The fitness levels now would render the majority of the squad mentioned blowing out of their arse by half time.
Talent is clearly important but fitness and strength plays a big part. I'm 57 so definitely a 'Da, but also clearly a pragmatic one.
 
A lot of those players were involved in some humiliating European results like Levski Sofia, Viktoria Zizkov and a good few others too.

They consistently underperformed in Europe, while our current team consistently overperform against some very good European sides and have never been beaten by any of them "with ease."

Your team also managed to finish 3rd in a 2 horse race, when they finished behind celtic and Hearts in the league, despite Souness having a playing budget about 5 times the size of the rest of the league put together.
Luckily for the manager and players, social media wasn't around then.

So while there were some outstanding players in your era, as a team they often played well below the

Including the qualifiers against teams of very poor quality. McCoist never played 2 or 3 qualifying rounds to get into the proper tournament. McCoist was the best Rangers striker I've seen. Not the best finisher though, like Morelos he needs 4 or 5 chances before he takes one. Both are similar that they don't let the misses bother them.

And what's the difference between then n now? Do you not think there is a massive gulf in class still? I'd say its still the same, if not worse, except the current team has trouble with the dreaded low block. It is not a new phenomenon.
European comps changed - McCoist played against teams in the tournament actual who are the equivalent of the teams we play in the qualifiers.

Its a fallacy McCoist scored against better teams.

McCoist:

Bohemians, Ilves Tampere, Boavista, Dynamo Kiev, Gornik Zabrze x2, Steaua Bucharest, Valetta x 2, Red Star Belgrade, Leeds x 2, Alania Vladikavkaz x 3, Grasshoppers x 2 and GI Gotu x 3.

Morelos:

Osijek, Maribor, Rapid Vienna x 2, St Josephs x 4, Midtyjlland x 3, Legia Warsaw, Young Boys x 2, Porto x 2, Feyenoord x 2, Lincoln Red Imps x 2, Lech Poznan, Benfica, Royal Antwerp, Malmo, Alashkert, Sparta Prague, Dortmund and Red Star.
 
Dunno what age you are, I am 45 so your squad brings back many happy memories.
However, like most things, each generation looks back on their heyday and always thinks its better than the current lot. be it football or music or films etc.

There are a few athletes there, like g Stevens, Porrini, Robertson and I would even say mccall, who just kept going.

The modern player though is without doubt faster, and fitter. Now, lauders and gazza would still be able to rely on skill to go past someone, but not sure they could run away like they did in their day.

Also, with current coaching, its just a different game being played today. The way the teams line up to the patterns and over laps during a game.

Think of the amount of times mccall went in with a cracking slide tackle- not sure how long he would stay on a pitch today- lets not even think about John Brown!!!

to sum up, no one can say for definite that one era is better than the other, as they are just too different.
I'm 54 and if you swapped the current ones to that era or the 90s team to the modern era it would be the 90s guys both instances hands down. With all the good points you make they would have been even better with modern fitness and coaching. If you put our current team back then they would have that eras coaching, not as fit or modern tactics and analysis same result for me.
 
Very difficult to compare teams across very different eras, but there is no question that the current Rangers side are the most consistently successful team in European football terms that we have ever had.
 
James Tavernier v Davie Robertson - two players who spend/spent most of their defending in the opposing half of the pitch.

Would be an epic battle of the attacking qualities of two defenders.
 
I'm 54 and if you swapped the current ones to that era or the 90s team to the modern era it would be the 90s guys both instances hands down. With all the good points you make they would have been even better with modern fitness and coaching. If you put our current team back then they would have that eras coaching, not as fit or modern tactics and analysis same result for me.
Sorry, I thought we were comparing the 90s boys as they are against todays team in some kind of time defying spectacular exhibition!!

ok, so if we took most of the 90s squad and they came through today with modern coaching and diet etc, then yes I agree man for man they are better. We were buying the best of the best at the time though.
it is slightly more satisfying, imo, to see us do so well when we have assembled the team on a tighter budget and you actually see the players improving through coaching and tactics, rather than buying the finished articles at huge prices.
 
People still saying things like we should bring in a McCall or Ferguson type is like someone then saying we need to bring in a Davy Smith or Baxter. Probably not all that wrong but just interesting that the generations are about equal now.
McCall from 1991 when he was bombing forward and joining the attack, even scoring goals would thrive in this side.

McCall from 1994-1998 who didn’t do that… not so much.
Interestingly (for me anyway) I had a look through which shirt numbers Stuart McCall wore for Rangers.. 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.
 
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