Morelos/Kent & Ross Wilson.

Morelos and Kent will both sign new deals as no other team will match what we are offering them,2 players who's form going back nearly 12 month is poor
That could certainly be true, where's is the upside for them as they will not go to a bigger club.
Maybe like Aribo, they will go to a better league but they will do nothing of note at clubs of that level.
 
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As a minimum that he addressed the glaring weaknesses in our squad, Right wing and CM.
Very tunnel visioned.

Any realistic target would be a bit more broad:

-Pathway to the first team for academy players.
-Sell academy players for decent money
-Make a record transfer fee.
-Make good profit in transfer market.
-Maintain a team capable of challenging for league title (against a team with a bigger budget).
-Win a league title.
-Progress year on year in Europe.

If you were told on the day he joined, that all of those things would happen (and a European final) you'd be delighted.
 
The simple fact is the power lies with the player and their agent. If they decide to see out their contracts, refusing to negotiate or to accept a transfer there is little the club/Wilson can do.

From a players perspective they can negotiate a far better deal when there is no transfer fee involved and there is little the club can do if this is the players mindset. Yes, we can sit them in the stand until their contracts expire but this just turns them into non-performing assets for the remainder of their time as they still require to be paid.
 
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situation should be pre empted by telling the players we would actively looking for buyers if they don’t extend.
I'm not sure that's a 'thing' any more mate. The players Agents will be constantly talking to other clubs about them and sounding them out. Much moreso when the player is getting towards the end of their contract. The days of 'making someone available for transfer' are long gone. All Agent driven these days.
 
Very tunnel visioned.

Any realistic target would be a bit more broad:

-Pathway to the first team for academy players.
-Sell academy players for decent money
-Make a record transfer fee.
-Make good profit in transfer market.
-Maintain a team capable of challenging for league title (against a team with a bigger budget).
-Win a league title.
-Progress year on year in Europe.

If you were told on the day he joined, that all of those things would happen (and a European final) you'd be delighted.
Good post.
 
That we will never know, but keeping them and losing them for nothing we do know is chucking away money.
If our plan was to get money once they progressed as players we have failed.
Both of these players are worth very little now, so much so when both could have picked up cheaply this window no one came in for them.

Our plan when we signed them was to improve as a team, win things.

We have achieved that,

no Club sells every player they buy for a profit. I don’t want us to be selling all our best players. I would want Wilson sacked if that was what we were reduced to,

We made money on Aribo and Bassey that is exactly what they were bought for. We sold Patterson for a huge fee but got buttons for Gilmour and Rory Wilson because they didn’t want to sign extensions with us.
 
Say we had sold them when their stock was high, would we be where we are now ?

Achieved 55, progressed annually in Europe to a name of standing again, getting European football that allows us to attract and retain players ?

Morelos and Kent are this years Goldson, they divide opinion as much as any of our players. Could we be getting more for our money? We’ve certainly had our money’s worth.
We may be UEFA cup winners.
 
That’s Ross Wilson’s job, to sell our assets at the best price or keep them. We rely on player trading and he has to make that work.
Not every player can be/will be sold. Some will stay till no longer required, some will be sold, some will walk away.
It's been that way since the Bosman rule was implemented.
 
Our plan when we signed them was to improve as a team, win things.

We have achieved that,

no Club sells every player they buy for a profit. I don’t want us to be selling all our best players. I would want Wilson sacked if that was what we were reduced to,

We made money on Aribo and Bassey that is exactly what they were bought for. We sold Patterson for a huge fee but got buttons for Gilmour and Rory Wilson because they didn’t want to sign extensions with us.
You have got this wrong we were to improve the players and sell for a profit that was the model the club were working too, they have said this a thousand times.
They have kept these two players too long and both now have us over a barrel.
 
Big shop window opportunity for the two players tomorrow night. Will be interesting to see if they raise their game to take it.
 
There was a rumour that there was a clause in Goldson's original contract if he extended his exiting contract we had to pay £1m to Brighton. Not sure however if this applies to Kent or Alfie
Both have already extended their original contract, so that theory can be ruled out.

Both will have sell-on clauses though, which will expire once their contracts expire and they become free agents.

Maybe a signing-on fee will be given to them in the summer as part of a new deal. That's what I think happened with Goldson and what I think will happen again with these two.
 
Ive pretty much resigned myself to them leaving for nothing. They dont owe us anything, if they think running down their deals is the best for them then fair enough.
 
At this point a years extension with a 'fair' release clause looks like good business

To come to this with these two players is outrageously bad from the club absolutely crazy
 
Both have already extended their original contract, so that theory can be ruled out.

Both will have sell-on clauses though, which will expire once their contracts expire and they become free agents.

Maybe a signing-on fee will be given to them in the summer as part of a new deal. That's what I think happened with Goldson and what I think will happen again with these two.
It was reported when Kent signed that Liverpool had negotiated a 20% sell-on fee.

 
Ive pretty much resigned myself to them leaving for nothing. They dont owe us anything, if they think running down their deals is the best for them then fair enough.

Correct

If they want to move on so be it, they’ll not be getting Champions League football or any regular European football, but they may move to a better league, and probably more money.
 
I hope they sign new deals but if both aren't willing to then we should sell them in January. You can't let two of your biggest players walk for nothing.
 
I hope they sign new deals but if both aren't willing to then we should sell them in January. You can't let two of your biggest players walk for nothing.
We need to do our best to get fees, but as many have said, it won't be easy & I've pretty much accepted they'll both go for nowt in the Summer.

The problem I have with letting players run down their contracts is that many of them also run down their commitment, as they've made up their mind to leave & have one eye on what's coming next...
 
I hope they sign new deals but if both aren't willing to then we should sell them in January. You can't let two of your biggest players walk for nothing.
And if they don't want to be sold??
 
You cant sign players if they dont want to stay. Entirely up to the player and not Ross Wilson.
If they want the leave at the end of the contract and get themselves an extra sign on fee with the new club.
If not extended by the end of the year I would not play them again and they can train with the B team. We then sign new players or bring on those we have.
Sends out a signal to others who just play out their contract.
They can sign for a further season on the understanding they can go for a reasonable sum the minimum agreed by both parties when they sign.
 
Undoubtedly he played well in Europe but domestically he has not produced enough outwith 55, don't think anybody can deny that.

Your post said he had no form at the end of the season. I was simply highlighting that was untrue. If we wanted to sell Kent on the back of his Europa performances, I am sure there would have been takers.

For instance, he was being raved about in Germany by all of their pundits and experts after the Dortmund and Leipzig games.
 
We need to do our best to get fees, but as many have said, it won't be easy & I've pretty much accepted they'll both go for nowt in the Summer.

The problem I have with letting players run down their contracts is that many of them also run down their commitment, as they've made up their mind to leave & have one eye on what's coming next...

Brian Laudrup prime example.

96/97 43 games 20 goals, in his prime

97/98 36 games 5 goals because he knew he was going down South.

grass isn’t always greener never even played a dozen games for them, and hated London too.
 
I have no idea who makes the final decisions on what players we sell, or chose to keep. I would imagine the Manager would have the major say and Wilson has to try and make it work.

However what I do know is players have contracts Clubs must honour, you can’t force a player to sign a new contract no matter how much money you offer them, and even we as a Club have a wage structure that limits how far we can go. How do we know we haven’t offered them new deals they haven’t signed yet, like Goldson.

Wilson’s first job was getting rid of Herrera and Grezda from lengthy expensive contracts. He has been working his way through trimming a bloated squad.

Would you still want to be watching Firth, Hastie, Middleton, Katic, Edmundson, Jones, Barker, Polster, Murphy, Docherty, or have we improved on them ?
There was nothing wrong with Mrs. Polster.
 
Morelos was injured over the summer. That's a tough sale, everyone's raving about how we buy injured players and heres us thinking we can sell one and fetch top dollar. I think Kent's form has seen his value dip, and quite a bit.

All in all the belief we control a situation is just not accurate. Agents and players can shit all over everyone and as someone else has said, we treat this like its Championship Manager.
 
Very tunnel visioned.

Any realistic target would be a bit more broad:

-Pathway to the first team for academy players.
-Sell academy players for decent money
-Make a record transfer fee.
-Make good profit in transfer market.
-Maintain a team capable of challenging for league title (against a team with a bigger budget).
-Win a league title.
-Progress year on year in Europe.

If you were told on the day he joined, that all of those things would happen (and a European final) you'd be delighted.
Can add in we now move squad players on and aren’t resorting to pay offs. Katic, bacuna and Simpson didn’t work and moved on. Not just the top end of the business that counts, it’s that lower loss prevention that adds up as well
 
In the event neither of these players sign new contracts and sit tight until the end of the season we will conservatively be watching 15-20 million of talent walking for nothing. If this comes to pass then surely Ross Wilson should be sacked for gross negligence?

Even if we are forced to sell both in January at vastly reduced fees that would be totally unacceptable. Truth be told it’s unacceptable we find ourselves in this situation at all. If players won’t sign new contracts with 12 months left our model surely makes it a necessity they should be sold.
Another pointless thread attacking Ross Wilson based on total ignorance of the situation
Do you really think Ross Wilson is the only guy involved in the contract negotiations?
How the fcuk could we sell Alfie when he was injured???
 
Very tunnel visioned.

Any realistic target would be a bit more broad:

-Pathway to the first team for academy players.
-Sell academy players for decent money
-Make a record transfer fee.
-Make good profit in transfer market.
-Maintain a team capable of challenging for league title (against a team with a bigger budget).
-Win a league title.
-Progress year on year in Europe.

If you were told on the day he joined, that all of those things would happen (and a European final) you'd be delighted.

Excellent points. Precisely the reason why those calling for the board to replace him are likely to be disappointed.

I've been guilty of giving Wilson some stick recently, mainly due to frustration over the teams early lack of form and energy plus the inability to effectively recruit for a couple of key positions. But when you look at the achievements under his watch as listed above, you can see why it can be viewed as harsh and short-sighted. Such is the life of fickle fans, especially at a club like ours where success and trophies are non-negotiable (as it should be).

And his / our summer recruitment may yet prove to be an overall success. Colak and Lawrence have already proven they have what ot takes. Tillman flourishrd early then went off the boil but the talent is there. Davies and Yilmaz we have to be patient with and take a longer term view. Souttar and Matondo look to be relatively poor acquisitions but again, time will tell.

As for op's main point, I think that's well off the mark. Player power when it comes to running down contracts for their own benefit is on the rise across Europe it would seem. If we've offered the 2 players suitable new contracts based on what we believe they're worth and they've turned them down whilst also not receiving any noteworthy bids from other clubs, what exactly is he supposed to do? No point alienating them, just got to get on with it, keep them motivated and see what January / end of season brings.
 
Would extensions mean increasing their wages? I’m not sure either deserve that or are worth that tbh.
If they're currently on the absolute limit that we're prepared to pay players - which is likely - then a way for them to get it bumped up could be via a signing-on fee, which normally gets spread out over the course of a contract.
 
That’s Ross Wilson’s job, to sell our assets at the best price or keep them. We rely on player trading and he has to make that work.

And he has with the sales of Patterson, Aribo and Bassey.

Kent and Morelos have made us millions on the pitch as well, so both have been very much value for money.

We are seeing a real shift in player attitudes towards signing contracts. The Goldson situation is one we'll see more of in the coming years. Our trading model is about a wider view than any one individual player.

That squad brought in big transfer fees and performed outstandingly in Europe. Even if we do lose Kent and Morelos on free transfers, it's been an overall success from the financial side of things, which is what this debate is founded on.
 
What if neither wanted to move in the summer?

Contract talks (for players of this importance) should be dealt with 18months to 2yrs in advance of contracts expiring.

Bargaining power is practically gone for the club when players enter the last 12months….

1. They might be happy to sit tight (whereas maybe not with 24 months remaining)

2. Potential buying clubs have us over a barrel (whereas they don’t with 24 months remaining)

The only issue with selling (which we’re not in control of) is…… someone has got to want to sign them.
Not many teams are knocking the door down for them.
 
In the event neither of these players sign new contracts and sit tight until the end of the season we will conservatively be watching 15-20 million of talent walking for nothing. If this comes to pass then surely Ross Wilson should be sacked for gross negligence?

Even if we are forced to sell both in January at vastly reduced fees that would be totally unacceptable. Truth be told it’s unacceptable we find ourselves in this situation at all. If players won’t sign new contracts with 12 months left our model surely makes it a necessity they should be sold.
If they hold on till the end of the season that is up to them and their right but if they sign pre season deals with clubs in January then they both should be benched and players who want to play for us brought in.
 
Your post said he had no form at the end of the season. I was simply highlighting that was untrue. If we wanted to sell Kent on the back of his Europa performances, I am sure there would have been takers.

For instance, he was being raved about in Germany by all of their pundits and experts after the Dortmund and Leipzig games.
Ok mate you love Kent I get it.
 
If Kent runs down his contract and the re-signs does that mean Liverpool are no longer due a sell on fee? I was wondering if he is maybe being encouraged down this route but on current form can’t see many buyers.
I was thinking the same. If we bought him for 7M, and Liverpool have a sell on fee of 20%. (£1.4m). If we let him run down his contract and give him say £1M sign on fee for new contract in the summer. Saves us paying Liverpool .
 
Contract talks (for players of this importance) should be dealt with 18months to 2yrs in advance of contracts expiring.

Bargaining power is practically gone for the club when players enter the last 12months….

1. They might be happy to sit tight (whereas maybe not with 24 months remaining)

2. Potential buying clubs have us over a barrel (whereas they don’t with 24 months remaining)

The only issue with selling (which we’re not in control of) is…… someone has got to want to sign them.
Not many teams are knocking the door down for them.

Not many players at their age are going to commit to another 2, 3, 4 years in Scotland when they still have 2 years to run on a contract.
 
i would be surprised if we got more than £5m for the pair in the January transfer window and with the League to win and hopefully European football to play even if it’s Europa I wouldn’t sell
 
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