Murdo Fraser writes to Humza re 'hanging effigies'

My work has both an internal and external audit team and we get hassled for backing up everything we do so I really cant accept that the police don't have something more strict considering the sensitivity of their work.

Isn't it a legal requirement to have a recorded chain of custody for evidence?


The police are not to blame in this occasion. They have a duty to supply "Best Evidence" to the PF. In this case, it would appear to be a disc copy of the cctv evidence taken from the hard drive of Celtc's cctv system and they did their part by supplying it to the PF, for which they would have received a signed acknowledgement of receipt.

Once the police have supplied it to the PF, then it is up to the PF to record and safely store it for use as evidence in any Court case and to supply copies to the Defence, if requested.

Reading between the lines, due to the PF stating "staff have been reminded of the processes and the consequences of not following them" it would appear that the PF has acknowledged receipt of the disc, but then one of 2 things has happened:

A. The location where the disc was stored has not been recorded and no-one has a clue where it is, or
B. The location was recorded, but someone has removed it from the store and not signed it out.

Whilst human error cannot be ruled out, my suspicion is that where it was stored would have been recorded (otherwise the buck stops with the person who signed for receiving it), but someone who knew exactly what they were doing, then moved it. Probably put into an envelope/box containing evidence for a completely different case. Most likely one which has been dealt with, where Productions will be retained for a period of time, but not looked at or disposed of, in case an appeal is lodged and the disc will not turn up for a long time.

It should also be noted that the PF could have asked Celtc for another disc copy, as it would have been no lesser evidence than the missing disc. It would be interesting to know if this was done and what the response was. ie. Were Celtc unable to do so because they had cleared the cctv recording for that game from the hard drive and if so, how quickly would they normally do that.

The whole thing stinks, but it would be impossible to prove that it was anything other than human error.
 
The police are not to blame in this occasion. They have a duty to supply "Best Evidence" to the PF. In this case, it would appear to be a disc copy of the cctv evidence taken from the hard drive of Celtc's cctv system and they did their part by supplying it to the PF, for which they would have received a signed acknowledgement of receipt.

Once the police have supplied it to the PF, then it is up to the PF to record and safely store it for use as evidence in any Court case and to supply copies to the Defence, if requested.

Reading between the lines, due to the PF stating "staff have been reminded of the processes and the consequences of not following them" it would appear that the PF has acknowledged receipt of the disc, but then one of 2 things has happened:

A. The location where the disc was stored has not been recorded and no-one has a clue where it is, or
B. The location was recorded, but someone has removed it from the store and not signed it out.

Whilst human error cannot be ruled out, my suspicion is that where it was stored would have been recorded (otherwise the buck stops with the person who signed for receiving it), but someone who knew exactly what they were doing, then moved it. Probably put into an envelope/box containing evidence for a completely different case. Most likely one which has been dealt with, where Productions will be retained for a period of time, but not looked at or disposed of, in case an appeal is lodged and the disc will not turn up for a long time.

It should also be noted that the PF could have asked Celtc for another disc copy, as it would have been no lesser evidence than the missing disc. It would be interesting to know if this was done and what the response was. ie. Were Celtc unable to do so because they had cleared the cctv recording for that game from the hard drive and if so, how quickly would they normally do that.

The whole thing stinks, but it would be impossible to prove that it was anything other than human error.
Nothing is impossible to prove if an investigation is thorough enough.
However, the original copy would have been itself copied many times over, so the evidence will be retained in a secondary form and should have been put before a judge for a decision to be made as to whether it was safe or not to be put before a jury.
A robust prosecution would also have obtained video evidence from TV companies and still images from newspaper outlets albeit they would have had to have done this through the authority of judges orders.
Apart from the images, there would have been a ton of eye witness evidence available form the many policemen inside the ground that day, never mind Filth staff working inside the Jimmy Savile Arena.

Altogether this was an offence that was seen by the entire Scottish public had they bothered to view their televisions or read their newspapers.
That the prosecution has not determinedly and dutifully pursued this crime suggests to me a lack of willingness to do so.
I can quite confidently suggest that it would not have happened anywhere else on the British mainland.
It shames Scotland, it traduces justice in Scotland and is quite seriously laughable as well as indefensible.
 
What a whitewash but it comes as of no surprise.

So that's the Criminal case thrown out,now what are the Football authorities going to do about that or did I miss them coming down on Celtic Football Club with such a heavy hand that the Celtic supporters wouldn't dare have inflammatory banners of the likes on show again.
 
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how the %^*& did they even get them in to the ground and then blow them up without being seen! Celtic are scum bastards,they clearly let these half wits do as they please! they should be held to task for what they allow in their stadium!
 
how the %^*& did they even get them in to the ground and then blow them up without being seen! Celtic are scum bastards,they clearly let these half wits do as they please! they should be held to task for what they allow in their stadium!
Don't forget, this wasn't aimed at just you me and the rest of the Rangers support.
They had our representative effigy hanging there to display their hatred of us, which we can to an extent expect, but they also hung one that represented all Protestants whether they support Rangers or not, they wanted to show Scottish Protestants just how much they also hated them.
That is who they are.
 
The police are not to blame in this occasion. They have a duty to supply "Best Evidence" to the PF. In this case, it would appear to be a disc copy of the cctv evidence taken from the hard drive of Celtc's cctv system and they did their part by supplying it to the PF, for which they would have received a signed acknowledgement of receipt.

Once the police have supplied it to the PF, then it is up to the PF to record and safely store it for use as evidence in any Court case and to supply copies to the Defence, if requested.

Reading between the lines, due to the PF stating "staff have been reminded of the processes and the consequences of not following them" it would appear that the PF has acknowledged receipt of the disc, but then one of 2 things has happened:

A. The location where the disc was stored has not been recorded and no-one has a clue where it is, or
B. The location was recorded, but someone has removed it from the store and not signed it out.

Whilst human error cannot be ruled out, my suspicion is that where it was stored would have been recorded (otherwise the buck stops with the person who signed for receiving it), but someone who knew exactly what they were doing, then moved it. Probably put into an envelope/box containing evidence for a completely different case. Most likely one which has been dealt with, where Productions will be retained for a period of time, but not looked at or disposed of, in case an appeal is lodged and the disc will not turn up for a long time.

It should also be noted that the PF could have asked Celtc for another disc copy, as it would have been no lesser evidence than the missing disc. It would be interesting to know if this was done and what the response was. ie. Were Celtc unable to do so because they had cleared the cctv recording for that game from the hard drive and if so, how quickly would they normally do that.

The whole thing stinks, but it would be impossible to prove that it was anything other than human error.

What I had wondered is kinda linked to your post DD .

Given this event was managed and controlled and secured by Celtic would there be a possible civil action that could be brought to force them to accept they were either compliant and liable for these crimes ? And could it even then link to there safety certificate for event ?

Maybe I’m wildly out but it would seem reasonable that Celtic really ought to be expected to have prevented or controlled the areas that these crimes occurred in.
 
Not from what I recall Alex! You sure?
Is that really a factor they are all Neil Lennon after all, as pointed out this was an attack on Protestantism and its Culture that went without any condemnation from the usual sources. Did Celtic ever issue a statement,they most likely said the Authorities were dealing with it, the Catholic Church would have plenty to say if we strung up Celtic supporters and Irish men from the South from our stands in fact the whole of Scotland would have plenty to say. The silence and outcome of the investigation really does speak volumes, the silence from our Club does not sit right with me either.
 
What I had wondered is kinda linked to your post DD .

Given this event was managed and controlled and secured by Celtic would there be a possible civil action that could be brought to force them to accept they were either compliant and liable for these crimes ? And could it even then link to there safety certificate for event ?

Maybe I’m wildly out but it would seem reasonable that Celtic really ought to be expected to have prevented or controlled the areas that these crimes occurred in.

Understand where you are coming from, but without knowing the full circumstances about how the dolls got there, they might get away with claiming that by supplying stewards, they took reasonable steps and if they use an outside agency to supply the stewards the responsibility would fall on them.

Ultimately though. we go full circle back to the PF's cock-up, whereby no crime has actually been established.
 
I don't know mate.

Just had this feeling from the start that at least one of the perpetrators is well connected with someone currently unknown to us.

Perhaps the forensic examination should now centre on all the individuals involved.

The pictures are still all over the internet on - quite how this can collapse is as sinister as it could possibly get.

That horrendous bigot Jeanette Findlay, IMO, with her FAC group and band of politicians and lawyers backing them - is more dangerous than many believe.

If I recall correctly the dolls were not at the green brigade side - then again - maybe there were hanging from both ends of the ground. Did the GB not have a horrendous banner at the same match?
 
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