Murdo Fraser writes to Humza re 'hanging effigies'

Superrangers

Well-Known Member
It wasn't a "blunder", which means incompetent but honest mistake, it was intentional corruption and anti-Protestant behaviour to ensure the perpetrators got away with this crime.

Further, there are literally thousands of videos including on You Tube showing these effigies and the people hanging them, how can there possibly "not be enough evidence"?
Precisely. It’s is sectarian justice being carried out by sectarian judicial authorities.
 

The Double A Man

Well-Known Member
Precisely. It’s is sectarian justice being carried out by sectarian judicial authorities.
I agree wholeheartedly and this requires a much wider audience.Whether the authorities in Scotchland like it or not, to be prejudicial against someones faith is not only restricted to the catholic and Muslim faiths.Let's face it, they are all equal in the eyes of the law, given that they are beliefs.This MUST be hammered home so that there can be no doubt that my belief is equally as good and as relevant as your belief.While there is no proof that one is more correct than the other they must be treated equally or not at all.
 

weetam3106

Well-Known Member
I’m really pissed off with this missing/ lost evidence shit. IF these files have gone from a server that is backed up by the COFPS back up system then then if it is ONLY those files it is corruption rather than a mistake.

It takes real dedicated effort to go onto a server and delete files, not just these particular files but their copies on the archive system. If they don’t have a system like this I will buy us Ryan Kent. I’m sure there is much more to this story than we are being told. IT experts on here please (no pun intended) back me up on this.
 

bilkobear

Well-Known Member
My sister and later my girlfriend who took over my sisters job at central police office used to tear up my motoring fines. Different level but it is not hard for an insider to do.
That is a very reckless post to make on the internet.
The actions of your relatives would see them do time, real hard time commensurate with a really serious crime.
Interfering with justice isn't something anyone ever does lightly.

Losing evidence in a court case is not an easy thing to do at all.
To do so with deliberation is just about as serious as it gets.

I am surprised at how this can occur north of the border and be met with a mere shrug.
That is the sort of response one expects in a corrupt small-time banana republic.
 

Lainey Love

Well-Known Member
My uncle used to do artex, we were at one of his mates doing a ceiling this time and it turned out this guy was the warrant officer at killie police station, he guy could tell my uncle that there was a warrant for non payments of fines, the guy says that he will deal with it but it will come back so he better start paying the fines
 

Timardim

Well-Known Member
Humza Useless should be on his feet at Holyrood confirming that there will be a police investigation as to why crucial Court evidence could suddenly be " lost" from such an important case. There must be procedures within the PF Office as to signing in to be able to observe such sensitive Court evidence. Who was the last person who looked at the evidence before it was " lost " ?
Peter lawell
 

mad4rfcme

Well-Known Member
I received a reply this morning from W.J.Wolffe QC. I have no clue as how to post a picture but can i copy & paste it into a post?
 

Disco Deejay

Well-Known Member
These things are signed in and out as they meander their merry way through the legal system.There will no doubt be an audit trail as to where it went and when.
Correct, in a perfect world.

However, cctv images are likely to be contained on a memory stick, kept in a Productions (Evidence) Store. It wouldn't be too difficult for someone who knows what they are looking for to remove it, without it being recorded anywhere.
 

RangersForever

Well-Known Member
Correct, in a perfect world.

However, cctv images are likely to be contained on a memory stick, kept in a Productions (Evidence) Store. It wouldn't be too difficult for someone who knows what they are looking for to remove it, without it being recorded anywhere.
Would then be suspicion on everyone who had access to it. Surely everyone who had access to evidence would be known, and that would be a starting point for investigation?
 

Fingers1872

Well-Known Member
I’m really pissed off with this missing/ lost evidence shit. IF these files have gone from a server that is backed up by the COFPS back up system then then if it is ONLY those files it is corruption rather than a mistake.

It takes real dedicated effort to go onto a server and delete files, not just these particular files but their copies on the archive system. If they don’t have a system like this I will buy us Ryan Kent. I’m sure there is much more to this story than we are being told. IT experts on here please (no pun intended) back me up on this.
If it transpires evidence has been deleted then surely someone would have had to log on to do so? That being the case they should easily be found, that is if the relevant authorities want to find them. This has happened on Humza' s watch, he should bare the ultimate responsibility but given he's part of the cult I very much doubt that would happen.
 

ghoulishworm

Well-Known Member
If it transpires evidence has been deleted then surely someone would have had to log on to do so? That being the case they should easily be found, that is if the relevant authorities want to find them. This has happened on Humza' s watch, he should bare the ultimate responsibility but given he's part of the cult I very much doubt that would happen.
As I stated earlier in the thread Fingers,this cultist is hidden and protected within the p.f.s' offices so therefore there is no chance of it being named and charged.
 

Disco Deejay

Well-Known Member
Would then be suspicion on everyone who had access to it. Surely everyone who had access to evidence would be known, and that would be a starting point for investigation?
Correct.

It should be easy to trace who lodged the production, where it was lodged, any time it was removed and by whom (if recorded).

The problem arises if it has been removed but not recorded. In that case, the investigation has to begin when it was last recorded as having been seen. Unfortunately if that was months ago, there are likely to have been a large number of people who have had access to the Productions Store (lodging/removing for examination/removing for Court etc of other productions).

Whilst it is possible that someone removed it and misplaced it, I would consider it more likely that someone has deliberately removed it and destroyed it. It's hard to believe that someone would risk both their job and a prison sentence to do this, but realistically the chances of getting caught are minimal.

It would be interesting to find out if it was lost by the Police or the PF, which shouldn't be too difficult for them to establish.

I don't live in Scotland, but someone familiar with FOI Requests may wish to ask Police Scotland if they lost it.
 

The Double A Man

Well-Known Member
Correct, in a perfect world.

However, cctv images are likely to be contained on a memory stick, kept in a Productions (Evidence) Store. It wouldn't be too difficult for someone who knows what they are looking for to remove it, without it being recorded anywhere.
Surely the evidence on the memory stick is just a certified copy of the original.The original could be revisited(presumably TV coverage) There are any number of versions available Youtube etc.My understanding is that the original effigies have gone missing.Not quite sure, but clarification would be appreciated.In any event, where there's a will there's a way.
 

Disco Deejay

Well-Known Member
Surely the evidence on the memory stick is just a certified copy of the original.The original could be revisited(presumably TV coverage) There are any number of versions available Youtube etc.My understanding is that the original effigies have gone missing.Not quite sure, but clarification would be appreciated.In any event, where there's a will there's a way.
Unless I have missed anything, they have been very coy about exactly what has went missing, the circumstances and why it lead to the prosecution being dropped.

The whole thing stinks.
 

onceuponabriggsbear

Well-Known Member
If there’s any good to come out of this it’s that it may just open peoples eyes to the grip these papist bastards have on our wee country.
My memory may be shit here but I thought the club actually came out and condemned these effigies after the match making a fairly strong public statement. Makes me wonder if they are making representations in the background
 

rossgers

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
My memory may be shit here but I thought the club actually came out and condemned these effigies after the match making a fairly strong public statement. Makes me wonder if they are making representations in the background
The club did condemn it but doubt they are doing anything. I also remember lawell said they were 'investigating'. We know how that works.
 

Jan Žižka

Well-Known Member
I'm struggling GG, got the reply in a doc on the desktop, i've tried to copy the link into a post but it won't go blue and open. See below.
file:///C:/Users/Colin/Desktop/Lord%20Advocate%20Reply%20(2).pdf
I'm not being wide mate, are you copying the link at the top of the page?

Copy from where it says "Dear...

Scroll down with your copy until they sign off with their name, then paste in here. Delete your real name from it after pasting in here and before you submit the post.

Hope this helps and if not, just ignore this.
 

bilkobear

Well-Known Member
Correct, in a perfect world.

However, cctv images are likely to be contained on a memory stick, kept in a Productions (Evidence) Store. It wouldn't be too difficult for someone who knows what they are looking for to remove it, without it being recorded anywhere.
Sorry but that is nonsense.

The proper conduct for exhibits such as this, is that they are booked into a secure store that is controlled by staff, then placed in a designated area that relates to their book entry, and after that, no one can access them, other than through the staff at a point of control and only with the correct authorisation and again then only after properly signing them out, stating named authorisation proof of identity and clearly submitting the reason for removal, such as court or for forensic examination.

At least that is what happens in a properly run justice system.

Any loss inside a system like this would require a major enquiry to discover the reason, and no doubt discipline proceedings or criminal charges might follow.
 

Disco Deejay

Well-Known Member
Sorry but that is nonsense.

The proper conduct for exhibits such as this, is that they are booked into a secure store that is controlled by staff, then placed in a designated area that relates to their book entry, and after that, no one can access them, other than through the staff at a point of control and only with the correct authorisation and again then only after properly signing them out, stating named authorisation proof of identity and clearly submitting the reason for removal, such as court or for forensic examination.

At least that is what happens in a properly run justice system.

Any loss inside a system like this would require a major enquiry to discover the reason, and no doubt discipline proceedings or criminal charges might follow.
You state that my post is nonsense, apparently with nothing to back it up, as you then mention what happens in a properly run justice system.

I can assure you that the Scottish Criminal Justice System is not properly run and stand my post, which I know is correct.

In a properly run system, the Productions would not have gone missing causing the trial to be abandoned.

With 22 years involvement in the Scottish Criminal Justice System and 9 in the English System, I could tell you some horror stories involving Productions that would make front page headlines.
 

bilkobear

Well-Known Member
You state that my post is nonsense, apparently with nothing to back it up, as you then mention what happens in a properly run justice system.

I can assure you that the Scottish Criminal Justice System is not properly run and stand my post, which I know is correct.

In a properly run system, the Productions would not have gone missing causing the trial to be abandoned.

With 22 years involvement in the Scottish Criminal Justice System and 9 in the English System, I could tell you some horror stories involving Productions that would make front page headlines.
You said that it wouldn't be too difficult for an item like this to be removed.
My contention is that it would.
Or it should be, for exactly the reasons I have stated.

I can confirm that this doesn't happen in London without there following an enquiry that would lead to either discipline or criminal charges.
There has to someone who would have to answer for such a disappearance.

I don't know what experience you have in England, but if it was London, you must know this.
 

George Goudie

Well-Known Member
Official Ticketer
I'm struggling GG, got the reply in a doc on the desktop, i've tried to copy the link into a post but it won't go blue and open. See below.
file:///C:/Users/Colin/Desktop/Lord%20Advocate%20Reply%20(2).pdf
If you upload the file to a free image hosting site it will give you a link to put it on message boards.

Tinypic etc.
 
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