My club paid the price, I as a fan paid the price. EBT v Child Abuse/Equality in scottish football.

Mossblown_Loyal

Well-Known Member
First and foremost we all recognise the victims and their plight in their fight for justice quite rightly so. That is a fight that is right at the front of this sordid affair. But it doesn't stop there and there are many knock on effects that must and should be taking in to account. There are many threads and thoughts on the victims and the horrible crimes they faced, which their families still have to suffer with. A full investigation is being swerved unjustly.

There are many threads and thoughts on this matter. I want to talk about some of the knock on effects that doesn't concern justice for the awful crimes committed, but concerns justice from the football authorities and eqaulity without fear or favour. Also without pointscoring and whataboutery which many use to deflect and deny what has gone on.

I apologise for some content which some may find abhorrent, vile and disgusting. ADMIN, If you feel this thread deserves to be deleted, then please delete. I also may be wrong here and there and if any one want's to correct me, then please free. I want to now talk about a football aspect, concerning my club and retribution that was took on my club, not for a criminal act, but for an act of naivety concerning a tax scheme which was initially thought to be legal and above board.

EBT'S= Tax scheme operated by the murry group (seperate entity). Which was deemed legal and thought to be legal, but turned out not to be. Side letter's to players was the vile disgusting evidence that saw my club and me as a fan, suffer like no other club in Scotland has suffered before.

Kicked from pillar to post, vilified in the media to shouts of hang the traitors, hang them, cut and quarter them. My club took on the responsibility, thousands upon thousands of Rangers took the responsibility. We stood tall, we took it on the chin, we went to the bottom tier of scottish football amid secret meetings and low level paper gatherer's calling the shots. We took our punishment, we stood tall, we "accepted" it.

CHILD ABUSE= Taking place within celtic football club and in the stadium. High ranking celtic officials and management knowing about it. The open secret. Abusers being thrown out then being allowed back in. In other words known child abuser's being openly welcome back in to the club. Their crimes being known but yet allowed back in to work along with children again.

What is child abuse ?. What is sexual child abuse ?. This is where i apologise for giving this information from Police/Poileas Scotland website. This is is absolutely sickening. The media and justice minister and other politician's seem to be absolutely ignoring what is happening right in front of them.

Sexual Abuse

A child is sexually abused when they are forced, enticed or persuaded to take part in sexual activities. This doesn't have to be physical contact and it can happen online. Sometimes the child won't understand that what's happening to them is abuse. They may not even understand that it's wrong.

There are 2 different types of child sexual abuse. These are called contact abuse and non-contact abuse: -

Contact abuse involves touching activities where an abuser makes physical contact with a child. Examples of contact abuse can include:

  • sexual touching of any part of the body whether the child's wearing clothes or not
  • rape or penetration by putting an object or other body part inside a child's mouth, vagina or anus
  • forcing or encouraging a child to take part in sexual activity
  • making a child take their clothes off, touch someone else's genitals or masturbate.

Non-contact abuse involves non-touching activities. Examples of non-contact abuse can include:

  • encouraging a child to watch or hear sexual acts
  • communicating indecent messages to a child
  • not taking proper measures to prevent a child being exposed to sexual activities by others
  • online abuse including making, viewing or distributing child abuse images
  • allowing someone else to make, view or distribute child abuse image
  • showing pornography to a child.

This is all freely available on the Police/poileas Scotland website.

Like i say, I am looking from a knock on effect and equality within Scottish Football and the Scottish Football authorities.

EBT'S, A tax scheme originally thought as above board and legal and bona fide. Then through many court battles, it was deemed not so.

CHILD SEX ABUSE= Make your own mind up v the above.

Again, i say, there are many fights. The victims and justice are at the forefront. But i am wanting to speak on the football side of things which is secondary to what these people have gone through, and are still going through.

This is not about "pointscoring", this is not about "whataboutery". This is about "EQUALITY" in the football world.

TAX MISINTERPRETATIONS V CRIMINAL CHILD SEX ABUSE.

Over to "YOU" Scottish football authorities.
 
EBTs were not illegal at the time and only became so when government closed loophole and retrospectively looked to punish those that employed the scheme. Much like driving at 30 2 years ago in a now 20 zone and police trawl cameras and backdate the speeding offence.
Child abuse has always been illegal
 
EBTs were not illegal at the time and only became so when government closed loophole and retrospectively looked to punish those that employed the scheme. Much like driving at 30 2 years ago in a now 20 zone and police trawl cameras and backdate the speeding offence.
Child abuse has always been illegal

Thanks GL, As i said correct me as you see fit, but we are all singing off the same hym sheet here and know the route i am going down.

Death on the rock ;)
 
i do expect the Scottish football authority's to punish them and I expect the punishment to be much bigger then what we got anything less is fucking disgusting

The SFA?
Mr Liewell will tell peter that peter was a naughty boy and peter should not have done that. Peter will say sorry and it was someone else and then they ran away and it had nothing to do with him anyway.
Mr Liewell will tell peter that it’s ok, as long as it’s in the past then it can go away now.

Meeting ends......
 
Why are all these journalists so afraid to discuss the Celtic paedophile ring? They were all over Rangers Football Club when the EBT tax case was on the go as soon as HMRC had indicated their intention to pursue the matter in order to 'change the tax laws' on the subject. By implication (and fact) EBTs were not illegal at that time. But sexual abuse of children has never been in doubt as a major criminal offence. The perpetrators have been convicted. So why the reluctance to discuss it? Sub-judicial is no longer an issue. Where is Graham Spiers? Where is Alex Thomson of Channel 4 News? Tom English? The Irish ((actually Scottish) bigot? Anyone? Crewe Alexandra, a minor English league club, was front page news for weeks and months in all the English heavyweight newspapers when the scandal at that club became public. What has happened to the 'publish and be damned' ethos of the Scottish Press? To say this is 'not football related' is reprehensible and cowardly.
 
EBTs were not illegal at the time and only became so when government closed loophole and retrospectively looked to punish those that employed the scheme. Much like driving at 30 2 years ago in a now 20 zone and police trawl cameras and backdate the speeding offence.
Child abuse has always been illegal

EBTs have never been illegal, not even after the appeal court judgement.
They have been judged to be tax liable, and therefore not effective in minimising tax due.
If they were illegal, individuals could face criminal charges of tax evasion.
As they aren't illegal, individuals instead find they owe back taxes as the scheme was not within the rules of tax avoidance.

And all this years after the Murray group, and many others all over the UK, got advice they were within those rules.
 
EBTs have never been illegal, not even after the appeal court judgement.
They have been judged to be tax liable, and therefore not effective in minimising tax due.
If they were illegal, individuals could face criminal charges of tax evasion.
As they aren't illegal, individuals instead find they owe back taxes as the scheme was not within the rules of tax avoidance.

And all this years after the Murray group, and many others all over the UK, got advice they were within those rules.
Thanks for clarifying dh wasnt fully aware of that.
Just makes what happened to us all the more galling
 
The thing that is doing my head in is. I listened day in day out on radio shows from football pundits and the like becoming experts on everything regarding tax. Not once have I heard anything from them regarding the wellbeing of young footballers in the clubs care. No one wants to call them out and tell the truth. It's not a nice subject to talk about but still needs addressed.
 
First and foremost we all recognise the victims and their plight in their fight for justice quite rightly so. That is a fight that is right at the front of this sordid affair. But it doesn't stop there and there are many knock on effects that must and should be taking in to account. There are many threads and thoughts on the victims and the horrible crimes they faced, which their families still have to suffer with. A full investigation is being swerved unjustly.

There are many threads and thoughts on this matter. I want to talk about some of the knock on effects that doesn't concern justice for the awful crimes committed, but concerns justice from the football authorities and eqaulity without fear or favour. Also without pointscoring and whataboutery which many use to deflect and deny what has gone on.

I apologise for some content which some may find abhorrent, vile and disgusting. ADMIN, If you feel this thread deserves to be deleted, then please delete. I also may be wrong here and there and if any one want's to correct me, then please free. I want to now talk about a football aspect, concerning my club and retribution that was took on my club, not for a criminal act, but for an act of naivety concerning a tax scheme which was initially thought to be legal and above board.

EBT'S= Tax scheme operated by the murry group (seperate entity). Which was deemed legal and thought to be legal, but turned out not to be. Side letter's to players was the vile disgusting evidence that saw my club and me as a fan, suffer like no other club in Scotland has suffered before.

Kicked from pillar to post, vilified in the media to shouts of hang the traitors, hang them, cut and quarter them. My club took on the responsibility, thousands upon thousands of Rangers took the responsibility. We stood tall, we took it on the chin, we went to the bottom tier of scottish football amid secret meetings and low level paper gatherer's calling the shots. We took our punishment, we stood tall, we "accepted" it.

CHILD ABUSE= Taking place within celtic football club and in the stadium. High ranking celtic officials and management knowing about it. The open secret. Abusers being thrown out then being allowed back in. In other words known child abuser's being openly welcome back in to the club. Their crimes being known but yet allowed back in to work along with children again.

What is child abuse ?. What is sexual child abuse ?. This is where i apologise for giving this information from Police/Poileas Scotland website. This is is absolutely sickening. The media and justice minister and other politician's seem to be absolutely ignoring what is happening right in front of them.

Sexual Abuse

A child is sexually abused when they are forced, enticed or persuaded to take part in sexual activities. This doesn't have to be physical contact and it can happen online. Sometimes the child won't understand that what's happening to them is abuse. They may not even understand that it's wrong.

There are 2 different types of child sexual abuse. These are called contact abuse and non-contact abuse: -

Contact abuse involves touching activities where an abuser makes physical contact with a child. Examples of contact abuse can include:

  • sexual touching of any part of the body whether the child's wearing clothes or not
  • rape or penetration by putting an object or other body part inside a child's mouth, vagina or anus
  • forcing or encouraging a child to take part in sexual activity
  • making a child take their clothes off, touch someone else's genitals or masturbate.

Non-contact abuse involves non-touching activities. Examples of non-contact abuse can include:

  • encouraging a child to watch or hear sexual acts
  • communicating indecent messages to a child
  • not taking proper measures to prevent a child being exposed to sexual activities by others
  • online abuse including making, viewing or distributing child abuse images
  • allowing someone else to make, view or distribute child abuse image
  • showing pornography to a child.

This is all freely available on the Police/poileas Scotland website.

Like i say, I am looking from a knock on effect and equality within Scottish Football and the Scottish Football authorities.

EBT'S, A tax scheme originally thought as above board and legal and bona fide. Then through many court battles, it was deemed not so.

CHILD SEX ABUSE= Make your own mind up v the above.

Again, i say, there are many fights. The victims and justice are at the forefront. But i am wanting to speak on the football side of things which is secondary to what these people have gone through, and are still going through.

This is not about "pointscoring", this is not about "whataboutery". This is about "EQUALITY" in the football world.

TAX MISINTERPRETATIONS V CRIMINAL CHILD SEX ABUSE.

Over to "YOU" Scottish football authorities.
WOW!
 
I think a main sticking point for the SFA is that they are implicated due to Jack McGinn being a past president, I also think he was the treasurer as well, there will be various other Celtic men involved at the SFA during the abuse years, which would indicate the SFA were also aware of what was going on and chose not to report it either.

For whatever reason the Scottish government doesn't want to peel this particular onion, which is utterly appalling.
 
Again speaking from a football perspective, We as a club due to our punishment, which we took head on. Probably lost millions upon millions of pounds from being denied european football. Lost the chance of adding domestic silverware to our already massive haul, along with the chance of adding to our record haul of domestic titles.

Hopefully the club lawyers are watching proceeding's with great interest. I wouldn't like to think Celtic if admitting guilt, or found to be guilty in a court of law get favourable treatment from scottish football authorities. If that was the case, then i believe a compensation claim, monetary and trophy wise could be sought from the scottish football authorities. This could possibly run in to millions and millions of pounds. Scottish football could have indeed hated itself to death.
 
i do expect the Scottish football authority's to punish them and I expect the punishment to be much bigger then what we got anything less is fucking disgusting

Sorry to say I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think the football authorities will punish the Scum for the depraved and reprehensible goings on at club - ffs even the Scottish govt are scared to give it a seconds notice.
 
Well I am astonished that anyone would even dare to compare and contrast our situation to that of the poets and even to attempt this makes us part of the problem.

We overreached ourselves, spent beyond our means and were made bankrupt. We all knew we were not a viable concern even before The Mint sold us to Whyte. Aye, that we had a series of fiscal rapists is beyond doubt but we do have to take responsibility for our own demise. We all bought in to Murray's hubris.

To try and draw parallels between us being fiscal fuckwits and Celtic enabling the rape of young boys is invidious and is the way of madness.

Our case has been examined in detail and we've been found guilty and fined on various charges. Let's park that as it's now history.

The situation with Celtic is entirely unrelated despite the media noise. Oh and 'what about them' is less than helpful.

What we must not do is say, "They wanted us banned so we now want them banned" as that makes us look like fannies in a tit-for-tat race to the bottom.

Four people associated with Celtic have, in the past year, been jailed for sexually abusing young boys. The lawyer for a group of victims reckons they acted in concert, We all know, too, that Celtic were, at least, negligent in allowing Torbett back to abuse children and that's the smoking gun.

Stop trying to draw parallels as that makes us look like fannies. Instead, let's ask the questions that the MSM seem not inclinded to ask.
 
At the end of the day our crimes weren't crimes when they where legal loopholes. But then let us do our best to destroy and tarnish the Famous Glasgow Rangers the institution that was build on Integrity. The negativity wee received was nothing short of appaling from all the Media sources who should be hanging the heads in shame when there has been real crimes happening for the past 40 years which weren't a well kept secret.. Ps Remember the Victims that haven't be supported by there club that doesn't have a boys club
 
Wrote it on another thread earlier they should be charged with bringing the game into disrepute straight away no if’s buts or need to to hold an independent investigation into what happened it’s been proved in a court of law a multiple times now what went on that club and they are guilty. How can an insolvency event be charged under that particular rule but not multiple child abuse cases?

After that further investigations should take place with heavy sporting sanctions placed on them.

That club has faced absolutely zero consequences for its actions with even ex-players going so far as admitting in books that child abuse was an open secret that everyone at the club knew about.

It’s beyond ridiculous that so far they faced absolutely zero repercussions for any of the crimes they have committed.
 
Sorry to say I think you are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think the football authorities will punish the Scum for the depraved and reprehensible goings on at club - ffs even the Scottish govt are scared to give it a seconds notice.
this isn't just some wee shite scandal this is the worst scandal to hit not just Scottish football but the worst in football history so aye a expect them to be fucking punished and any decent people out there should be demanding it
 
Well I am astonished that anyone would even dare to compare and contrast our situation to that of the poets and even to attempt this makes us part of the problem.

We overreached ourselves, spent beyond our means and were made bankrupt. We all knew we were not a viable concern even before The Mint sold us to Whyte. Aye, that we had a series of fiscal rapists is beyond doubt but we do have to take responsibility for our own demise. We all bought in to Murray's hubris.

To try and draw parallels between us being fiscal fuckwits and Celtic enabling the rape of young boys is invidious and is the way of madness.

Our case has been examined in detail and we've been found guilty and fined on various charges. Let's park that as it's now history.

The situation with Celtic is entirely unrelated despite the media noise. Oh and 'what about them' is less than helpful.

What we must not do is say, "They wanted us banned so we now want them banned" as that makes us look like fannies in a tit-for-tat race to the bottom.

Four people associated with Celtic have, in the past year, been jailed for sexually abusing young boys. The lawyer for a group of victims reckons they acted in concert, We all know, too, that Celtic were, at least, negligent in allowing Torbett back to abuse children and that's the smoking gun.

Stop trying to draw parallels as that makes us look like fannies. Instead, let's ask the questions that the MSM seem not inclinded to ask.

I try to give you the benefit of the doubt. I need to stop re-reading your post. It gets worse everytime i read it.
 
Well I am astonished that anyone would even dare to compare and contrast our situation to that of the poets and even to attempt this makes us part of the problem.

We overreached ourselves, spent beyond our means and were made bankrupt. We all knew we were not a viable concern even before The Mint sold us to Whyte. Aye, that we had a series of fiscal rapists is beyond doubt but we do have to take responsibility for our own demise. We all bought in to Murray's hubris.

To try and draw parallels between us being fiscal fuckwits and Celtic enabling the rape of young boys is invidious and is the way of madness.

Our case has been examined in detail and we've been found guilty and fined on various charges. Let's park that as it's now history.

The situation with Celtic is entirely unrelated despite the media noise. Oh and 'what about them' is less than helpful.

What we must not do is say, "They wanted us banned so we now want them banned" as that makes us look like fannies in a tit-for-tat race to the bottom.

Four people associated with Celtic have, in the past year, been jailed for sexually abusing young boys. The lawyer for a group of victims reckons they acted in concert, We all know, too, that Celtic were, at least, negligent in allowing Torbett back to abuse children and that's the smoking gun.

Stop trying to draw parallels as that makes us look like fannies. Instead, let's ask the questions that the MSM seem not inclinded to ask.

As I read it, it's not drawing parallels; it's pointing out that we were vilified and retrospectively punished for something that wasn't even illegal at the time it happened, but Celtic aren't, and for being complicit in much more serious crimes.
 
The punishment we got absolutely fucking reeks to high heavens.
A mere financial hiccup in comparison to most money issues these days and we get chucked down to the bottom floor like a weans shitey nappy, resulting in the loss of an international filled squad, various incomes and setting the club back years. Now ask anyone across the world which is worse out of a minor tax issue (which wasn't even illegal) and covering up a pedophile ring for the best part of 3/4 decades, the only people that will say the first one are the rancid rotten cunts in this country.

I honestly won't be surprised if they end up doing an out of court settlement with the victims and then the SFA come out and say they don't want to punish a "premier club" as it will tarnish the Scottish game too much. If they do that I would hope we go quadruple barrel on the cunts and take them to court.
 
Carson's cat.

Please point out any untruths in my OP. ?

The floor is all yours ?
My point was about as clear as it can possibly be: If we try and draw parallels between the two situations then we come across as utter fandans. What we have to be doing is asking:

How come 4 people associated with Celtic have been jailed in the past year?
How did Torbett get back to abuse boys after being 'kicked down the stairs' the first time?
What was the relationship between Celtic and The Trophy Centre?​
Why did said relationship continue even after Torbett was jailed first time round?
What was the involvement of some Celtic directors with Torbett's business?​
What was the relationship between Mccafferty and Bennell - it seems sinister as %^*&.​

So just stop with trying to draw parallels between the two. They are in no way comparable.
 
My point was about as clear as it can possibly be: If we try and draw parallels between the two situations then we come across as utter fandans. What we have to be doing is asking:

How come 4 people associated with Celtic have been jailed in the past year?​
How did Torbett get back to abuse boys after being 'kicked down the stairs' the first time?​
What was the relationship between Celtic and The Trophy Centre?​
Why did said relationship continue even after Torbett was jailed first time round?​
What was the involvement of some Celtic directors with Torbett's business?​
What was the relationship between Mccafferty and Bennell - it seems sinister as %^*&.​

So just stop with trying to draw parallels between the two. They are in no way comparable.

I'm trying to find "EQUALITY" on a football basis, not parallels. "Equality" from the high heid yins in retrospective punishment.

Do you feel celtic if admittedly or found guilty in a court of law of knowingly and covered up what went on should escape unpunished ?
 
I'm trying to find "EQUALITY" on a football basis, not parallels. "Equality" from the high heid yins in retrospective punishment.

Do you feel celtic if admittedly or found guilty in a court of law of knowingly and covered up what went on should escape unpunished ?
So you made a heartfelt post and I sympathise with that. What you're doing, though, is comparing apples and pears.

Any case against The Scum stands or fall on its own merits and, as I said, is well worth investigating. There is absolutely no point in bleating endlessly about how we've been treated. This just makes us look silly.
 
Personally think bringing EBT into the argument looks like revenge and belittles the seriousness of the issue.

That club allowed a peado gang to operate within its walls, had NDA's signed, covered it up, re-hired the same people years later who continued to abuse innocent children and paid untold sums of cash to the same people after being convicted. Stick to the facts, dont make it us and them.
 
Nobody is making any Par
Personally think bringing EBT into the argument looks like revenge and belittles the seriousness of the issue.

That club allowed a peado gang to operate within its walls, had NDA's signed, covered it up, re-hired the same people years later who continued to abuse innocent children and paid untold sums of cash to the same people after being convicted. Stick to the facts, dont make it us and them.

"EQUALITY" again i have to point out. Not us or them, pointscoring or whataboutery. Please read thread from the start.
 
Personally think bringing EBT into the argument looks like revenge and belittles the seriousness of the issue.

That club allowed a peado gang to operate within its walls, had NDA's signed, covered it up, re-hired the same people years later who continued to abuse innocent children and paid untold sums of cash to the same people after being convicted. Stick to the facts, dont make it us and them.
No doubt you will be first in line to demand punishment beyond what Rangers went through for a tax misdemeanour ?
 
So you made a heartfelt post and I sympathise with that. What you're doing, though, is comparing apples and pears.

Any case against The Scum stands or fall on its own merits and, as I said, is well worth investigating. There is absolutely no point in bleating endlessly about how we've been treated. This just makes us look silly.

Honestly ?. "bleating endlessly". Again, it's nothing to do with how we've been treated. Can you just please check out the word equality. Or how about this, "We only want a level playing field". Or is that outwith your train of thought as well ?
 
Honestly ?. "bleating endlessly". Again, it's nothing to do with how we've been treated. Can you just please check out the word equality. Or how about this, "We only want a level playing field". Or is that outwith your train of thought as well ?
You are clearly not getting this.

I would like Celtic to be investigated for what, on the face of it, is a paedo ring.

It has %^*& all to do with our demise and nothing to do with our treatment in the MSM. If you bleat endlessly about 'equality' then you become part of the problem.
 
You are clearly not getting this.

I would like Celtic to be investigated for what, on the face of it, is a paedo ring.

It has %^*& all to do with our demise and nothing to do with our treatment in the MSM. If you bleat endlessly about 'equality' then you become part of the problem.

Oh dear, listen to yourself. You would like celtic to be investigated. What for ? A paedo ring ?. What punishment do you recommend ?. Compared to a tax misinterpretation ?. Your own words mate. you want them investigated for a paedo ring. Yet you want to have a go at me for what you think im still hurting over ebt's. Gie's peace.

Oh please god, let us divide and begin here. You even say "on the face of it". I think the result is in, there is no middle ground now. "on the face of it". Aye right.
 
Oh dear, listen to yourself. You would like celtic to be investigated. What for ? A paedo ring ?. What punishment do you recommend ?. Compared to a tax misinterpretation ?.
You're doing this comparison thing again. It makes not one jot of sense.

They have a case to answer. What happened to us is immaterial.
 
I honestly think some of our fans are looking for some sort of equalizier here because of what happens to us.

This is all about justice and closure for the victims and nothing to do with football punishments.

Some posters like yourself and George Goudie need to get a grip.
 
I honestly think some of our fans are looking for some sort of equalizier here because of what happens to us.

This is all about justice and closure for the victims and nothing to do with football punishments.

Some posters like yourself and George Goudie need to get a grip.

Pish, you just need to read the op again, then think about what you said. You spoke of justice and closure. Please mate, i really did point that out straightaway in my op , there are many threads speaking about that. There are many knock on effects. As hard as some try, this aint going away.
 
You're doing this comparison thing again. It makes not one jot of sense.

They have a case to answer. What happened to us is immaterial.

Carson, have you really read my initial post, or has your adrenalin just ran away. Does the police scotland official info regarding child sex abuse strike fear in to you ?
 
I honestly think some of our fans are looking for some sort of equalizier here because of what happens to us.

This is all about justice and closure for the victims and nothing to do with football punishments.

Some posters like yourself and George Goudie need to get a grip.
I agree. There is no comparison to the two situations.

What happens to Celtic football club should be based on the seriousness of the offenses in relation to the law of the land.

Since only Penn State can compare, and even that is small in comparison, then the punishment which the law and eventually the football authorities administer will be totally unprecedented.
 
The question I keep returning to with this is this. Is the current Celtic club punishable or is it the men who did the crimes punishable? The crimes for me are the actual abusers and anyone who purposely covered it up to protect celtics name and individuals at the club. The board members like the Kelly Family who Alan Brazil cited as knowing full well what went on should be investigated.

Where the current club looks guilty if something for me is the contrived story that Celtic and the boys club were not linked and were separate entities. That to me looks like something they came up with to deny the victims compensation and also any negativity to fall on the club.

There has to now be a full and transparent investigation not by football authorities but by police/justice system to see who knew and why it wasn’t disclosed, there should also be more people facing court and compensations made. After they concluded that’s when the football authorities need to investigate.

I don’t think our EBT case is any way comparable as we broke rules not laws IMHO. Our situation was based round money owing to the tax man and Lloyds shafting us putting us in the hands of crooks who then made things worse. Owing money with a tax liability is in no way comparable to ruining tens of young lives.

Where there can be comparisons drawn and where folks can get upset is the way our case was reported and investigated. The notion that we somehow cheated everyone because we tried to offset our tax liabilities with the EBT scheme and had a huge debt living out with our means. It’s no different as it was deemed manageable as any business with overdrafts, mortgages, outstanding loans etc. Most clubs in Scotland all had those.

The aftermath of that was all the opposing fans started questioning Rangers fans morality for supporting a club who couldn’t pay small businesses and put some of these businesses out of business. We were asked how could we live with ourselves knowing we screwed the public purse. All we did as fas was turn up to watch our team play football, none of us business experts or any of us have influence over what SDM was doing or how he managed the money. I can understand why now some fans are angry and want to give some of that flack back to the Celtic fans who were gloating of our demise but given what has went on over at parkhead for me that wouldn’t be acceptable, it goes in the face of the standards that as Gers fans we should have.

Celtic fans certainly had no control over the perverts, Celtic fans don’t endorse Paedophilies. Celtic fans I know are disgusted at what has went on but some are falling for what their club is spouting about separate entity and it’s almost a defence wall that has went up not wanting to see their club punished. That’s where I go back to the initial question are the club currently responsible or is the the figures if the past who are to blame and should get punished?

One thing for sure listening to the stuff from the Gray family is heart wrenching, as a Rangers fan my only interest is seeing them get the outcome they want. I don’t see it as a way to goad Celtic fans it’s just the reaction decent people have to hearing about these perverts abusing their trust and power over innocent people that disgusts me
 
What is all this “can’t compare” shit you’re arguing about?

Of course you can, we do it on a regular basis in all walks of life.

We’ve all seen the rapist getting 12 month sentences(no justice for the victim).
We’ve all seen minor crimes get longer sentences.
What do we do in here? Yes we compare them, we lament the injustices. We feel for the victims of the more serious crimes who’ve been let down.
So because it’s football and because it’s our team, we have to cease with this type of thinking. Fucking bollocks we will.

How’s about this novel idea.
We can feel deeply for the victims and compare relative punishments.

We do it all the time in every day life.

Carson son, you’re talking utter bollocks for an intelligent man.
 
Last edited:
My point was about as clear as it can possibly be: If we try and draw parallels between the two situations then we come across as utter fandans. What we have to be doing is asking:

How come 4 people associated with Celtic have been jailed in the past year?
How did Torbett get back to abuse boys after being 'kicked down the stairs' the first time?
What was the relationship between Celtic and The Trophy Centre?​
Why did said relationship continue even after Torbett was jailed first time round?
What was the involvement of some Celtic directors with Torbett's business?​
What was the relationship between Mccafferty and Bennell - it seems sinister as %^*&.​

So just stop with trying to draw parallels between the two. They are in no way comparable.

There is an issue with the £1 million paid to the Trophy Centre after Torbett had been convicted. Two directors of this company were also directors of Celtic. Celtic directors testified on behalf of Torbett at his first trial.

The decision to pay the Trophy Centre was made when Fergus McCann was in charge. Jack McGinn also became SFA President.


These facts take us away from the emotional aspect of child sex abuse and directly into corporate governance issues. Bearing in mind that the SFA still won't clear Alastair Johnston as a 'fit and proper person' - despite warning about the Whyte takeover in 2011 - we have every right to highlight these glaring double standards.
 
Last edited:
i do expect the Scottish football authority's to punish them and I expect the punishment to be much bigger then what we got anything less is fucking disgusting

No a snowball In hells chance mate absolutely nothing will happen.
 
I'm baffled as to why people are saying they don't care if they get punished or not and the ones who do are only wanting revenge. Of course I fucking want revenge, my club was nearly finished off for next to no reason yet there is a club that employed a pedophile ring across the city and yous want them to go unscathed. It's not very hard to draw comparisons, one of us done something cheeky and legal, the other done something abhorrent, inhumane, disgusting and majorly illegal. Why the %^*& should we be the ones that pays the bigger price.
 
Back
Top